A7C full mechanical shutter

[technotic]

I'm interested in the A7C but it seems it is not possible to shoot with a fully mechanical shutter (EFCS cannot be disabled it appears). Anyone have an idea if there any likelihood Sony will enable this feature at some point via firmware or is it more likely to be a hardware limitation of this model?

 

[No account anymore]

I'm interested in the A7C but it seems it is not possible to shoot with a fully mechanical shutter (EFCS cannot be disabled it appears). Anyone have an idea if there any likelihood Sony will enable this feature at some point via firmware or is it more likely to be a hardware limitation of this model?

For what situations would you use full mechanical shutter?

 

[lft]

I'm interested in the A7C but it seems it is not possible to shoot with a fully mechanical shutter (EFCS cannot be disabled it appears). Anyone have an idea if there any likelihood Sony will enable this feature at some point via firmware or is it more likely to be a hardware limitation of this model?

For what situations would you use full mechanical shutter?

Limitations of the electronic shutter function - phillipreeve.net

Many E-mount cameras feature an electronic shutter option, but there are some limitations you should be aware of when using EFCS or silent shutter

phillipreeve.net

 

[No account anymore]

I'm interested in the A7C but it seems it is not possible to shoot with a fully mechanical shutter (EFCS cannot be disabled it appears). Anyone have an idea if there any likelihood Sony will enable this feature at some point via firmware or is it more likely to be a hardware limitation of this model?

For what situations would you use full mechanical shutter?

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/limitations-of-the-electronic-shutter-function/

Do you really think that Sony would have skipped the full mechanical shutter if all these problems was part of everyday real world photography?

• Don't confuse first electronic shutter with full electronic shutter
• Slight differences in bokeh quality occur only with fast shutter speed and very bright lenses wide open. The effect is not noticeable unless you directly compare two identical framed and exposed images, and who do that?
• LED light striping might be a problem with full electronic shutter, specially if readout speed is slow, but not so with first electronic shutter.
• The problem with uneven exposure at very high shutter speed is related to older, non-native lenses, mainly long focal lengths (the only time I have seen this was with a 1600 mm f:10 telescope at 1/8000 sec).
• And blooming, who have seen this from any recent camera?

After using Sony A7 series cameras to earn for a living, I use first electronic shutter all the time, also when using 1/8000 sec exposure with 400 mm and longer focal lengths, with no issues.

Don't trust all the claims in this 2016 article you refer to, I would say.

 

[lft]

I'm interested in the A7C but it seems it is not possible to shoot with a fully mechanical shutter (EFCS cannot be disabled it appears). Anyone have an idea if there any likelihood Sony will enable this feature at some point via firmware or is it more likely to be a hardware limitation of this model?

For what situations would you use full mechanical shutter?

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/limitations-of-the-electronic-shutter-function/

Do you really think that Sony would have skipped the full mechanical shutter if all these problems was part of everyday real world photography?

• Don't confuse first electronic shutter with full electronic shutter
• Slight differences in bokeh quality occur only with fast shutter speed and very bright lenses wide open. The effect is not noticeable unless you directly compare two identical framed and exposed images, and who do that?
• The problem with uneven exposure at very high shutter speed is related to older, non-native lenses, mainly long focal lengths (the only time I have seen this was with a 1600 mm f:10 telescope at 1/8000 sec).
• And blooming, who have seen this from any recent camera?

After using Sony A7 series cameras to earn for a living, I use first electronic shutter all the time, also when using 1/8000 sec exposure with 400 mm and longer focal lengths, with no issues.

Don't trust all the claims in this 2016 article you refer to, I would say.

There are plenty of documented issues with it. But sure, you can also choose to ignore it because... you feel like it?

 

[No account anymore]

I'm interested in the A7C but it seems it is not possible to shoot with a fully mechanical shutter (EFCS cannot be disabled it appears). Anyone have an idea if there any likelihood Sony will enable this feature at some point via firmware or is it more likely to be a hardware limitation of this model?

For what situations would you use full mechanical shutter?

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/limitations-of-the-electronic-shutter-function/

Do you really think that Sony would have skipped the full mechanical shutter if all these problems was part of everyday real world photography?

• Don't confuse first electronic shutter with full electronic shutter
• Slight differences in bokeh quality occur only with fast shutter speed and very bright lenses wide open. The effect is not noticeable unless you directly compare two identical framed and exposed images, and who do that?
• The problem with uneven exposure at very high shutter speed is related to older, non-native lenses, mainly long focal lengths (the only time I have seen this was with a 1600 mm f:10 telescope at 1/8000 sec).
• And blooming, who have seen this from any recent camera?

After using Sony A7 series cameras to earn for a living, I use first electronic shutter all the time, also when using 1/8000 sec exposure with 400 mm and longer focal lengths, with no issues.

Don't trust all the claims in this 2016 article you refer to, I would say.

There are plenty of documented issues with it. But sure, you can also choose to ignore it because... you feel like it?

Well, then you can provide links.

 

[lft]

I'm interested in the A7C but it seems it is not possible to shoot with a fully mechanical shutter (EFCS cannot be disabled it appears). Anyone have an idea if there any likelihood Sony will enable this feature at some point via firmware or is it more likely to be a hardware limitation of this model?

For what situations would you use full mechanical shutter?

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/limitations-of-the-electronic-shutter-function/

Do you really think that Sony would have skipped the full mechanical shutter if all these problems was part of everyday real world photography?

• Don't confuse first electronic shutter with full electronic shutter
• Slight differences in bokeh quality occur only with fast shutter speed and very bright lenses wide open. The effect is not noticeable unless you directly compare two identical framed and exposed images, and who do that?
• The problem with uneven exposure at very high shutter speed is related to older, non-native lenses, mainly long focal lengths (the only time I have seen this was with a 1600 mm f:10 telescope at 1/8000 sec).
• And blooming, who have seen this from any recent camera?

After using Sony A7 series cameras to earn for a living, I use first electronic shutter all the time, also when using 1/8000 sec exposure with 400 mm and longer focal lengths, with no issues.

Don't trust all the claims in this 2016 article you refer to, I would say.

There are plenty of documented issues with it. But sure, you can also choose to ignore it because... you feel like it?

Well, then you can provide links.

Sure, I'll Google it for you.

Any specific year? Are you more partial to video explanations? Are there certain websites you would like me to ignore because you do not like them?

What are your parameters?

This may be a good potential start, as it also features plenty additional resources, hopefully they are ok for you;

Loading…

www.fredmiranda.com

 

[No account anymore]

Well, then you can provide links.

Sure, I'll Google it for you.

Any specific year? Are you more partial to video explanations? Are there certain websites you would like me to ignore because you do not like them?

Valid for the current A7 series cameras, and also the A7C.

What are your parameters?

Problems that will ruin everyday professional or amateur work.

This may be a good potential start, as it also features plenty additional resources, hopefully they are ok for you;

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1612010

Frankly, this is not helpful. Things are messed up with the three types of shutter settings. You really need to quality check your googling!

You have to specify if the problems arises with first electronic shutter, compared to the use of full mechanical shutter (no noticeable problems, exceptions mentioned in my answer above) or full electronic shutter (limitations related to readout speed).

 

[lft]

Well, then you can provide links.

Sure, I'll Google it for you.

Any specific year? Are you more partial to video explanations? Are there certain websites you would like me to ignore because you do not like them?

Valid for the current A7 series cameras, and also the A7C.

What are your parameters?

Problems that will ruin everyday professional or amateur work.

This may be a good potential start, as it also features plenty additional resources, hopefully they are ok for you;

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1612010

Frankly, this is not helpful. Things are messed up with the three types of shutter settings.

You have to specify if the problems arises with first electronic shutter, compared to the use of full mechanical shutter (no noticeable problems, exceptions mentioned in my answer above) or full electronic shutter (limitations related to readout speed).

Damn you went through all of that, including the videos in under 10 minutes.

I'm not sure I can help you out. It seems you have everything sorted. Carry on then.

 

[No account anymore]

Well, then you can provide links.

Sure, I'll Google it for you.

Any specific year? Are you more partial to video explanations? Are there certain websites you would like me to ignore because you do not like them?

Valid for the current A7 series cameras, and also the A7C.

What are your parameters?

Problems that will ruin everyday professional or amateur work.

This may be a good potential start, as it also features plenty additional resources, hopefully they are ok for you;

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1612010

Frankly, this is not helpful. Things are messed up with the three types of shutter settings.

You have to specify if the problems arises with first electronic shutter, compared to the use of full mechanical shutter (no noticeable problems, exceptions mentioned in my answer above) or full electronic shutter (limitations related to readout speed).

Damn you went through all of that, including the videos in under 10 minutes.

I'm not sure I can help you out. It seems you have everything sorted. Carry on then.

If your intention is to help the OP, you are on a dead end now.

 

[lft]

Well, then you can provide links.

Sure, I'll Google it for you.

Any specific year? Are you more partial to video explanations? Are there certain websites you would like me to ignore because you do not like them?

Valid for the current A7 series cameras, and also the A7C.

What are your parameters?

Problems that will ruin everyday professional or amateur work.

This may be a good potential start, as it also features plenty additional resources, hopefully they are ok for you;

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1612010

Frankly, this is not helpful. Things are messed up with the three types of shutter settings.

You have to specify if the problems arises with first electronic shutter, compared to the use of full mechanical shutter (no noticeable problems, exceptions mentioned in my answer above) or full electronic shutter (limitations related to readout speed).

Damn you went through all of that, including the videos in under 10 minutes.

I'm not sure I can help you out. It seems you have everything sorted. Carry on then.

If your intention is to help the OP, you are on a dead end now.

I was responding to your denying of the issue existing.

 

[No account anymore]

Damn you went through all of that, including the videos in under 10 minutes.

I'm not sure I can help you out. It seems you have everything sorted. Carry on then.

If your intention is to help the OP, you are on a dead end now.

I was responding to your denying of the issue existing.

Then you could have replied to someone who denied the issues.

I just placed the issues into a real world photography context, related to the newer A7 series cameras.

 

[moficera]

It is just a speculation but the manual says that the A7C may experience problems from EFCS like distorted bokeh and uneven exposure. That could mean that the shutter has only the second curtain so no full mechanical shutter. Otherwise they could have implemented an automatic switch to full mechanical shutter to avoid these problems.

 

[Despiser]

It is just a speculation but the manual says that the A7C may experience problems from EFCS like distorted bokeh and uneven exposure. That could mean that the shutter has only the second curtain so no full mechanical shutter. Otherwise they could have implemented an automatic switch to full mechanical shutter to avoid these problems.

A switch would have made sense. Seems like Sony wasn’t too concerned with the mechanical shutter. Why would they only implement 1/4000 instead of the 1/8000? In fairness, I’ve only used the mechanical shutter once in the month I’ve had the A7iii and that was during a lightening storm.

 

[Thor Egil]

I'm interested in the A7C but it seems it is not possible to shoot with a fully mechanical shutter (EFCS cannot be disabled it appears). Anyone have an idea if there any likelihood Sony will enable this feature at some point via firmware or is it more likely to be a hardware limitation of this model?

For what situations would you use full mechanical shutter?

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/limitations-of-the-electronic-shutter-function/

Do you really think that Sony would have skipped the full mechanical shutter if all these problems was part of everyday real world photography?

• Don't confuse first electronic shutter with full electronic shutter
• Slight differences in bokeh quality occur only with fast shutter speed and very bright lenses wide open. The effect is not noticeable unless you directly compare two identical framed and exposed images, and who do that?
• LED light striping might be a problem with full electronic shutter, specially if readout speed is slow, but not so with first electronic shutter.

Led light striping can be a serious problem even with full mechanical shutter. Here is an example from a concert I shot last week, with led lights and stage smoke. The banding is clearly visible along the left edge, even though I have done some editing to reduce the effect. This is shot using an A9II, but even this camera is useless with electronic shutter in this setting.

View attachment 2637494

Here's a link to the blog post to see the picture(s) uncompressed by dpreview.
https://thoregilphoto.com/2020/10/1...pe-of-concerts-to-come-ntnu-musikk-dokkhuset/

• The problem with uneven exposure at very high shutter speed is related to older, non-native lenses, mainly long focal lengths (the only time I have seen this was with a 1600 mm f:10 telescope at 1/8000 sec).
• And blooming, who have seen this from any recent camera?

After using Sony A7 series cameras to earn for a living, I use first electronic shutter all the time, also when using 1/8000 sec exposure with 400 mm and longer focal lengths, with no issues.

Don't trust all the claims in this 2016 article you refer to, I would say.

--
Thor Egil
http://thoregilphoto.com

 

[technotic]

For me it is HSS to avoid banding. I've tried the A7C and there is banding with flash (Godox AD200 in my case) when using shutter speeds above the max flash sync speed. A pity because I like the camera otherwise.

 

[Tristimulus]

For me it is HSS to avoid banding. I've tried the A7C and there is banding with flash (Godox AD200 in my case) when using shutter speeds above the max flash sync speed.

Above the max sync speed. Should explain why...

A pity because I like the camera otherwise.

 

[technotic]

For me it is HSS to avoid banding. I've tried the A7C and there is banding with flash (Godox AD200 in my case) when using shutter speeds above the max flash sync speed.

Above the max sync speed. Should explain why...

A pity because I like the camera otherwise.

No, because on A7III you disable EFCS and there is no banding...

This was my question - will Sony allow it to be disabled?

 

[SQLGuy]

For me it is HSS to avoid banding. I've tried the A7C and there is banding with flash (Godox AD200 in my case) when using shutter speeds above the max flash sync speed.

Above the max sync speed. Should explain why...

A pity because I like the camera otherwise.

No, because on A7III you disable EFCS and there is no banding...

This was my question - will Sony allow it to be disabled?

It looks to me like Sony does not allow fully mechanical shutter with this camera, and I can't really understand why they would take that decision... unless they had really bad shutter shock and felt that forcing EFCS was preferable to allowing users to see that.

I agree that there are real problems - mostly minor, but real - with EFCS in some situations. I've seen the fine banding with HSS on the A7R2 with a Minolta 5600HS(D) flash as well; it occurs with EFCS, and goes away with fully mechanical shutter. It doesn't utterly ruin images, but it's annoying, and noticeable enough in a large print or close crop.

 

[MILC man]

For me it is HSS to avoid banding. I've tried the A7C and there is banding with flash (Godox AD200 in my case) when using shutter speeds above the max flash sync speed.

Above the max sync speed. Should explain why...

exactly... camera manufacturers set a max sync speed for good reason, ignoring it is operator error, not a camera issue.

a7c is an entry-level camera that's targeted at specific hybrid markets, see the sony press release:

"Sony’s latest set of releases is perfect for vloggers, travel photographers, or any other photographer who wants the benefits of Sony’s full-frame mirrorless system when size and weight are high priorities. Sharing a similar form factor to Sony’s extremely compact APS-C mirrorless cameras, the a7C is small and light enough to comfortably carry in a purse, tote bag, or backpack, making full-frame everyday carry a reality. The a7C also serves as an excellent second camera or compact option for photographers already invested in Sony’s full frame camera system."

as far as when efcs should be used, see this: https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-wo...-speed-you-should-use-with-efcs-on-the-a7rii/

note the part where nikon cuts efcs off at 1/2000th... sony is no doubt using a better mechanical shutter than that d810, so the results are more reliable, and with the 1/4000th s.s. limit, most users in the target market aren't going to see a problem.