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Poorsha
Guest
Is there an easy way to determine if an old M body is a IIIC or a IIIb?
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Neither is an M body. They are both commonly referred to as Barnack Leica's, because before the M3 was released, all of the Leica's were improved versions based on the original Leica created by Oskar Barnack. You can easily find tons of information online, especially YouTube, on these older Leica's.
The old screw mount Leicas are well documented and, if you make a note of the serial number and visit this site,
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...ial_Number_Links_for_Leica_Cameras_and_Lenses
you will find all the information you require.
You can also check on any Leica/Leitz lenses on the same site.
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...ial_Number_Links_for_Leica_Cameras_and_Lenses
you will find all the information you require.
You can also check on any Leica/Leitz lenses on the same site.
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Joel Halbert
Leading Member
First of all, and with apologies please understand that this is not pedantic but very fundamental: The III series are part of the screw-mount Leica model progression, first introduced in 1930 (prior models did not have removable/interchangeable lenses).
These are pointedly not M bodies.
The M cameras were introduced in 1953 and use the Leica M bayonet mount which is entirely different (though deliberately and easily able to take screw-thread lenses using simple and well-made adapters). This mount survives today in the digital M and now-specialized film M bodies. The old screw mount also kind of survives in that it became the standard for 35mm-format enlarging lenses and various other accessories - but of course enlargers are now more dead than film cameras! Aside from the mount, the M cameras were far more advanced in other ways, most notably in shutter control, general build quality and the stunningly better combined range/viewfinder system. Only the last screw-mount camera (IIIg) which was available alongside the M3 and M2, attempted to compete with the M finder optics.
But to your real question: Yes, it's actually pretty easy to tell the difference between IIb and IIIc if you observe a few details. I will include a few extra comments regarding identification of earlier screw-mount models. You can skip to point 5 if you only want the specific answer to your IIIb vs. IIIc question.
1. Leica II and III series both have built-in rangefinders on top but only the III series has the slow-speed knob on the front, roughly at the the 10 o'clock position with respect to the lens mount. II series will be blank or in some cases have a cover "plug" at that position.
2, At the back, Leica III and IIIa have well-separated eyepieces for viewfinder and rangefinder.
3. Leica IIIa has a fast shutter speed of 1/1000, otherwise very similar to III
4. Leica IIIb has very close, almost-merged eyepieces for VF and RF on the back side. This made it easier and faster to switch between focus and composition.
5. Leica IIIc looks similar to the predecessor models overall, but is actually quite extensively re-designed. IIIc (and the less-common IIc and Ic variants) introduced a longer and more integrated die-cast body. With IIIc, you will not see a seam where the rangefinder housing sits on the top plate; it is one piece. IIIb has several screws around the front and back edges of the top plate, including a screw head in the front edge of the top plate around the 11 o'clock position wrt the lens mount. IIIc does not have that screw (but there is still a screw on the other side around the 1:30 position). With IIIc you can also see the metal body casting exposed at the top part directly above the lens mount; there is no body covering material directly above the mid-line of the lens flange. This gives away the solid die-cast construction that was faster to assemble and strengthened the body around the mount.
5a. This is from memory, but I am pretty sure that all the cameras up through IIIb had a distinctively different base-plate with four screw-heads in a rectangular pattern - easy to see if you look at the bottom of the camera. From IIIc, these four screws are not seen on the bottom plate. Of course this is not the only difference in base-plates because the IIIc-on cameras are longer and the base-plates will not fit the earlier cameras.
JoelH
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