Reading mode: Light Dark

Why does 10D Lacks Sharpness? - a BUG in noise reduction?

Go to last post
marianco

marianco

Senior Member
Messages
1,128
Reaction score
11
Location
Monterey, US
I am concerned about the softness I see with most the sample pictures I see with the 10D, even with high quality L lenses.

I'm hoping Phil comes out with his review of a production version soon.

My concern is this: Is Canon's noise reduction circuitry causing a LOSS OF DATA/LOSS OF RESOLUTION like the Nikon D100?

The Nikon D100's noise reduction circuitry causes a true and significant loss of data/resolution in the jpegs it produces compared with the RAW format files. Many noticed how soft the pictures are with the D100. This quickly took it out of the running for me when shopping for DSLRs - compared to the Canon D60/10D and FujiFilm S2 Pro.

Is the same thing happening with Canon's 10D? Is the attempt to get ISO 100 sensitivity contributing to a compromise where noise level is reduced at the expense of data/resolution?
 
marianco said:
I am concerned about the softness I see with most the sample
pictures I see with the 10D, even with high quality L lenses.

I'm hoping Phil comes out with his review of a production version
soon.

My concern is this: Is Canon's noise reduction circuitry causing a
LOSS OF DATA/LOSS OF RESOLUTION like the Nikon D100?

The Nikon D100's noise reduction circuitry causes a true and
significant loss of data/resolution in the jpegs it produces
compared with the RAW format files. Many noticed how soft the
pictures are with the D100. This quickly took it out of the running
for me when shopping for DSLRs - compared to the Canon D60/10D and
FujiFilm S2 Pro.

Is the same thing happening with Canon's 10D? Is the attempt to
get ISO 100 sensitivity contributing to a compromise where noise
level is reduced at the expense of data/resolution?
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
 
marianco

I did some test shots this afternoon with ISO 100, tripod mount, remote shutter cable, default camera settings, 28-135mm lens.

The 10D looks as good as my trusty D60 at 100% magnification in Photoshop, so rest easy.

--
Daniel Payne
Canon 10D
http://danieljpayne.com/
 
You won't be able to because there have been none shown. I have seen out of focus and camera shake but no lack of sharpness.

Steven
marianco said:
I am concerned about the softness I see with most the sample
pictures I see with the 10D, even with high quality L lenses.

I'm hoping Phil comes out with his review of a production version
soon.

My concern is this: Is Canon's noise reduction circuitry causing a
LOSS OF DATA/LOSS OF RESOLUTION like the Nikon D100?

The Nikon D100's noise reduction circuitry causes a true and
significant loss of data/resolution in the jpegs it produces
compared with the RAW format files. Many noticed how soft the
pictures are with the D100. This quickly took it out of the running
for me when shopping for DSLRs - compared to the Canon D60/10D and
FujiFilm S2 Pro.

Is the same thing happening with Canon's 10D? Is the attempt to
get ISO 100 sensitivity contributing to a compromise where noise
level is reduced at the expense of data/resolution?
Click to expand...
--
---
Something different.
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/in_the_supers
 
Most of what I have seen is very shallow DOF, resulting in alot of out of focus area, which is causing some to suggest the 10D produces softer images than the P&Ss they are used to.
--

10D, D60, G2, Elan 7E QD, Rebel 2000 QD, 24-70L, 70-200L IS, 100-400L IS, 50mm f1.4, 85mm f/1.8, 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro, 135mm f/2, 200mm f/2.8 USM, 1-550EX, 2-420EXs, MT-24EX, Bogen Tri-pod w/head, Bogen monopod and the usual filters, cable releases and accessories.
 
Thanks for the reassurance.

For a second, I had misgivings about choosing the 10D over the FujiFilm S2 Pro.
 
I went from G2 to 10D. I'm getting used to the camera. The 2 things that I am adjusting to are the way the 10D picks AF points when all 7 are enabled (seems to pick the most contrasty edges - not necessarily what I want) and the extremely shallow DOF I can achieve with a wide aperature.
 
I also thought that the 10D was lacking a wee bit in sharpness, but then I realized that I was comparing it with my G2 which I kept on the normal sharpness setting. Using that setting and printing with the default smart sharpening setting in Qimage the prints from the G2 was way too oversharpened. So I concluded that the combined sharpening from the G2 and Qimage was too much. Now with the 10D and the default setting of Qimage, my preliminary prints now seems just right and satisfactorily sharp. In addition, the texture of the prints are so buttery smooth! I didn't think that the difference would be so evident. I'm really pleased.

Any way, botom line I think is that I was used to the in camera sharpening of the G2 but perhaps the 10D doesn't do this. Note that a lot of the posted images from the 10D had some USM in them.

Marq.
marianco said:
Thanks for the reassurance.

For a second, I had misgivings about choosing the 10D over the
FujiFilm S2 Pro.
Click to expand...
--
MSChecan
 
Did some macro shooting today with a Sigma 105mm and didn't find ANY lack of sharpness in my shots. I've posted two samples on PBase - one JPG straight out of the camera (IMG_0226.JPG) with all settings at "normal" (default). This image is underexposed a little bit because I didn't use FEL and the dark bee threw off the meter by about 1/3 of a stop.

Additionally, I've posted an adjusted sample (IMG_0226_ADJ.JPG) in which I've done Auto Contrast, Light USM (125 amount, radius 1), inserted my signature, and cleaned up some dust spots (from the inside of the lens - no doubt). This simple cleanup is a normal part of my workflow and I believe it to be expected/normal for any DSLR shot.

Images are at:
http://www.pbase.com/klotz/10d

Hopefully these will help. I firmly believe that good technique and proper DoF can overcome "sharpness" issues.
--
Klotz
 
dv13 said:
Is there any way to compensate for the shallow DOF?
Click to expand...
Try shooting in Av mode at about f/8 (assuming you have enough light that the shutter speed is not too low - which you could still fix, by bumping up the ISO)
 
I wouldn't exactly call it lack of sharpness, but it looks like the effect of some kind of processing. It seems to take the fine detail away. I'm sort of wondering if it is improving edges at the cost of other parts of the photo. I dunno though.

These photos scared me a lot: http://www.doxphotos.com/wed.htm

I was thinking of getting a 10D.

Bill
marianco said:
I am concerned about the softness I see with most the sample
pictures I see with the 10D, even with high quality L lenses.

I'm hoping Phil comes out with his review of a production version
soon.

My concern is this: Is Canon's noise reduction circuitry causing a
LOSS OF DATA/LOSS OF RESOLUTION like the Nikon D100?

The Nikon D100's noise reduction circuitry causes a true and
significant loss of data/resolution in the jpegs it produces
compared with the RAW format files. Many noticed how soft the
pictures are with the D100. This quickly took it out of the running
for me when shopping for DSLRs - compared to the Canon D60/10D and
FujiFilm S2 Pro.

Is the same thing happening with Canon's 10D? Is the attempt to
get ISO 100 sensitivity contributing to a compromise where noise
level is reduced at the expense of data/resolution?
Click to expand...
 
Those wedding photos would scare the tics off of a blood-hound! Zounds#!@$! However, they look like pretty amateur photography problems, not 10D problems:
Bad white balance
Shutter speeds too slow for hand-holding

I don't think it was the camera!

Klotz
 
Here's a well taken photo:
http://www.pbase.com/image/14237820

To me it looks like the 10D is doing something that ends up makeing it feel to me like the photo lost fine detail.

Anyway, I'm going to keep looking at sample images.

Bill
Klotz said:
Those wedding photos would scare the tics off of a blood-hound!
Zounds#!@$! However, they look like pretty amateur photography
problems, not 10D problems:
Bad white balance
Shutter speeds too slow for hand-holding

I don't think it was the camera!

Klotz
Click to expand...
 
What's going on in this forum is short of surreal. The 10D arrives with a cleaner and color tagged sensor and its buyers say the camera lacks sharpeness and color.

Guys/gals: these are tools, and if the D60 was good (in the proper hands) the 10D is better. But... you may be looking for something else. If you come from the technicolor, oversharpened digicamworld... that's OK, but this is NOT the tool for you. Sorry! Take your pick... a professional's tool or a toy. Your choice!

John
marianco said:
I am concerned about the softness I see with most the sample
pictures I see with the 10D, even with high quality L lenses.

I'm hoping Phil comes out with his review of a production version
soon.

My concern is this: Is Canon's noise reduction circuitry causing a
LOSS OF DATA/LOSS OF RESOLUTION like the Nikon D100?

The Nikon D100's noise reduction circuitry causes a true and
significant loss of data/resolution in the jpegs it produces
compared with the RAW format files. Many noticed how soft the
pictures are with the D100. This quickly took it out of the running
for me when shopping for DSLRs - compared to the Canon D60/10D and
FujiFilm S2 Pro.

Is the same thing happening with Canon's 10D? Is the attempt to
get ISO 100 sensitivity contributing to a compromise where noise
level is reduced at the expense of data/resolution?
Click to expand...
 
I have taken numerous comparison shots with my D60 and 10D over the past couple of days and the 10D is easily as sharp (if not sharper) than the D60, but much more sensitive to DOF. May ratio of 10D good shots during the first day was awful, but I am slowly but surely taming the beast by stopping down some when possible and selecting the focus point when appropriate.

Nobody seems to be talking much about the vast improvements in e-ttl, the faster focus lock, ability to focus in a very dark room, nice build quality. I was discouraged at first (this forum can be contagious), but may just fall in love with this camera.
Marc Brackhahn said:
Most of what I have seen is very shallow DOF, resulting in alot of
out of focus area, which is causing some to suggest the 10D
produces softer images than the P&Ss they are used to.
--
10D, D60, G2, Elan 7E QD, Rebel 2000 QD, 24-70L, 70-200L IS,
100-400L IS, 50mm f1.4, 85mm f/1.8, 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro, 135mm
f/2, 200mm f/2.8 USM, 1-550EX, 2-420EXs, MT-24EX, Bogen Tri-pod
w/head, Bogen monopod and the usual filters, cable releases and
accessories.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.DigitalDaydreaming.com
 
There are legitimate concerns about the 10D. Time will tell better. A difference that may look better to you may look worse to someone else. I really think that Canon is applying some fancy calculations to every image which for me takes away the feeling I'm looking for.

Bill
John Davis said:
What's going on in this forum is short of surreal. The 10D arrives
with a cleaner and color tagged sensor and its buyers say the
camera lacks sharpeness and color.

Guys/gals: these are tools, and if the D60 was good (in the proper
hands) the 10D is better. But... you may be looking for something
else. If you come from the technicolor, oversharpened
digicamworld... that's OK, but this is NOT the tool for you. Sorry!
Take your pick... a professional's tool or a toy. Your choice!

John
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top