Canon Severe Banding

[steve_london]

I know there have been several discussions on banding when using the Canon EOSR but the banding on my recent images are severe! Is it a software problem or is it a sensor fault, any feedback would be greatly appriciated.

This Christmas display I assume is using LED lighting and the banding is quite clear however the banding continues down the picture as well.

 

[NoTicket]

You have clearly caught the specific interval at which this decoration flickers its LED lights. And of COURSE the banding extends down because I’m sure you are aware that lights do not only emit point light sources but also illuminate the scene in which they are placed.

A CMOS sensor reads out line by line, and if you are using either electronic first curtain shutter (Silent 1) or fully electronic shutter (Silent 2) you can run in to this. Tho with electronic first curtain shutter you have to get even more lucky with your timing for this to happen.

What happened here is that the LEDs flicker on and off at some defined rate. As the CMOS sensor in your camera scans line by line, at some points through the exposure the LEDs were in the flicker off phase, while other times they were on.

This is a larger problem primarily with cheaper LEDs. I would wager a guess having not been there that this light setup dimmed and brightened over the course of several seconds as many christmas light shows do. LED dimmer mechanisms that are inexpensive use a method of dimming called pulse width modulation (PWM) to dim the lights. This method of dimming decreases the rate at which LEDs flicker without decreasing the brightness of the actual light source, the net result being that you get less total light output.

So to answer your question, no you don’t have a sensor problem, and you aren’t going to see any difference by switching to another brand for this problem. If you ever find yourself photographing christmas lights again, I would advise you to turn off silent shutter entirely. Tho to be fair, at certain shutter speeds you still may have a problem. Typically you would need to stay below the frequency of the ac cycle rate of the electricity in your area. So if you are in the US, you’ll need to go 1/60 or slower, and in the UK you’d need 1/50 or slower.

 

[gimp_dad]

Only fully silent Shutter in artificial light at certain shutter speeds will cause this. It's the menu item in tab 6 labeled "Silent Shutter" of the Camera menu. Neither of the mode 1 or mode 2 "Silent LV shoot." selections will cause it. Similar characteristics exist for all FF cameras, all brands when shooting e-shutter except the Sony A9.

If you don't understand it use EFCS ("Silent LV shoot." "Mode 1") or fully manual shutter. Google e-shutter banding with artificial light if you want to know more.

I know there have been several discussions on banding when using the Canon EOSR but the banding on my recent images are severe! Is it a software problem or is it a sensor fault, any feedback would be greatly appriciated.

This Christmas display I assume is using LED lighting and the banding is quite clear however the banding continues down the picture as well.

 

[steve_london]

Hi,

I had a suspicion the LED lighting had something to do with, so pleased there is nothing wrong with the camera, strange how shooting in slenr mode makes this much difference.

Really appriciate your feedback on this.

Steve

 

[N-VB]

With silent shutter or first curtain electronic, it'll be exactly the same with any other brand/cameras. And also with the a9 at slightly highter shutter speed.

Internet is all about silent shutter, but nobody talks about it's limitations.

To make it short: artificial light => mechanical shutter.

 

[gimp_dad]

With silent shutter or first curtain electronic, it'll be exactly the same with any other brand/cameras. And also with the a9 at slightly highter shutter speed.

Internet is all about silent shutter, but nobody talks about it's limitations.

To make it short: artificial light => mechanical shutter.

This form of banding will not happen with EFCS. EFCS exposes at the same speed as mechanical. Either EFCS or mechanical shutter can randomly show one beat or band unless you use flicker reduction mode.

 

[forpetessake]

With silent shutter or first curtain electronic, it'll be exactly the same with any other brand/cameras. And also with the a9 at slightly highter shutter speed.

Internet is all about silent shutter, but nobody talks about it's limitations.

To make it short: artificial light => mechanical shutter.

This form of banding will not happen with EFCS. EFCS exposes at the same speed as mechanical. Either EFCS or mechanical shutter can randomly show one beat or band unless you use flicker reduction mode.

Exactly. I don't know how people can imagine that EFCS would move slower than a mechanical shutter.

That said, somebody recently demonstrated LED source flickering at 300Hz and higher. In that case even the best focal plane mechanical shutter would result in banding.

 

[Peter Kwok]

If you need to be absolutely quiet, then you can try using a slower shutter.

You are using an IS lens at 32mm. Your subjects are sitting down. There is no reason to shoot at 1/250 sec, which corresponds to the equivalent of a very narrow moving electronic "slit". This narrow slit caught the LEDs flicking multiple times. If you shoot at 1/125s, then the "slit" would be twice as wide, probably making the banding almost invisible. They will completely disappear at 1/60s.

 

[olstrup]

That said, somebody recently demonstrated LED source flickering at 300Hz and higher. In that case even the best focal plane mechanical shutter would result in banding.

Yes. It was also a problem back in the film days. We didn't have LED lights back then but we had flouroscent tubes which changed color over the AC 50Hz cycle and that showed up in the pictures as color shifting bands in the pictures if the shutter speed was not below the AC cycle speed. I have quite a few color slides from that time exhibiting that problem.

 

[Mr_Win]

depending on the read speed of the sensor, the only way you can get silent shutter to work is to dip to 1/30 or slower, so if you're using a stabilized lens and dont have time to switch out settings, that's one way around it.