Fuji is not perfect.

[jjz2]

No brands are. If I were to switch to say canon (they have a. Couple lenses I’d prefer like the 7 oz 11-22 or 22 pancake), then I’d not have other lenses or bodies to choose from. Can’t win them all.

Same thing with choosing a place to live. I've moved around a lot and have lived in 5 major US cities plus a few stints abroad, they all have pros/cons really, and I could see myself in many places depending on the time in my life. Nowhere is perfect, but some places (and cameras) definitely are a better fit. Fuji is currently the best fit out there for what I want.

 

[Pan50]

It’s not perfect at all. One could complain about XH1 battery life, or sticky knobs on the XT1, but I still like shooting with these cameras. In fact am gonna get outside in the damp weather right now with my XH1 and 16-55 and do some shooting. Reading forums isn’t as much fun as actually taking pictures.

 

[koweb]

This thread - among many others - is (are) living proof that arguments over virtually anything can magically materialize, eventually spiraling out of control, with the thread becoming hijacked somewhere down the line. And when it reaches a point where eventually somebody throws in a "Yo Momma," then all hell can break loose.

Why folks can't get it through their thick brain housing groups, that a forum, or a missive, or a letter (whatever - just fill in the blanks) is a 1 dimensional scenario. There is often no way to determine the original intent of the poster. Many times posters will initiate a thread with intentions that are honorable (good, fair, etc), only to have them judged (or misinterpreted) as being clickbait, trolling, or whatever other descriptors one can muster.

I know I've been there. In the past (probably still do occasionally), I started threads in which I had nothing but the best intentions (with my warped ole' Marine Corps humor thrown into the mix) - only to have the thread turn into a cluster(use your imagination here). As a result, the original intent behind the thread was lost in the fray.

As an aside, forums and social media are like this - a way for folks to develop "keyboard courage," in which they mask their true identities and then can throw caution to the wind as they type their accusations or what have you.

Give the OP a break. This sort of bantering is so indicative of what's happening in our societies in general. Don't like what a person has to say (or what they posted), resort to an immediate interpretation, name calling or categorizing their postings as - yup, you guessed it - "bashing, clickbait, trolling, and the list goes on."

Now there - for those of you who enjoy arguing for arguing's sake - I just threw you homies a bone and now you can attack me or try to decipher my reply here. ;-)

“Give the OP a break”... I did, yesterday, https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63307657

Still don’t know what the original intent of the thread is, and it’s why I asked... so far the silence is deafening?

--
Bradk
"Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference" - Mark Twain

 

[9VIII]

Of course Fuji is perfect. There's no way we would be so fanatical if they weren't.

 

[koweb]

Of course Fuji is perfect. There's no way we would be so fanatical if they weren't.

LOL, that’s awesome!

 

[notchy]

I agree that Fujifilm is not perfect....but....its perfect for me.

Heh, *this*

 

[The Torontonian]

Modern cameras, -of a certain price range, have several different ways of exposing, focusing, shaping output, etc. Multiply that by the multitude of needs, and desires that every individual has, and you're going to come up with a huge variety.

Yesterday, I watched a youtube video, where the presenter kept referring to the X-T2's poor battery performance. I kept thinking to myself, 'what does this guy do? Just run around using the 'spray and pray' method, holding down the shutter release, with the camera set to 8fps, taking a hundred shots of everything?

It was only about half way through the video, that he explained that he shot video only...

I've never shot video, and have always felt I've gotten good results with battery life.

No camera is perfect.

Seriously, one of the benefits of DPReview, is that you can go surf the forums of other cameras. You'll be surprised about how often you'll hear stuff like 'why can't we get the lens selection that Fuji users have?' or 'how come our camera designers can't come up with something as simple as a decent jpeg, like Fuji cameras are capable of? Or my favorite, 'why do our cameras have to be so big and bulky?'

Choose your tools wisely. Chances are, You'll never reach perfection nirvana, but making the right decisions, you can get a lot closer.

 

[stevo23]

Fuji is my equipment of choice, and I’d be satisfied with less than I have for quite some time. The equipment is great, but I have to be conscious of some imperfections in order to maximize the quality of my work.

Acknowledging limitations allows us to maximize results. However, these acknowledgements are shunned.

They are often shunned unfortunately. Seems to me that we only improve the tribe when we help each other understand. All systems have their share of things to look out for.

For instance, I can't mention the limitations of certain lenses without getting blasted by folks who can't accept that there are limitations even though they're well established. To me it's a public service announcement. But their replies usually take the form of "there are no limitations, see my photo?"

Oh well.

 

[stevo23]

...a variety of other mirror-less systems, you'd see all of the complaints that folks register on their respective forums. Sometimes the complaints are hilarious - sometimes they're quite serious. But the complaints are there about various aspects of their camera designs or operational characteristics. So Fuji is not alone.

A quick story before I try to make a point. I started riding a horse at 4, had my very own horse at 6. By the time I was 10, when weather permitted, my Grandfather and I would go out chasing fox across hill and dale with some neighbors. The local ranchers and farmers had put up jump crossings on their fences. Roll forward a couple years and I ended up living with my mother during the school week because the schools in the city were better than the country. I started dating a girl who was a rider. She was a lot richer than me and could afford any horse she wanted. She could never find a jumper that was "good enough." She couldn't jump more that the intermediate course because it was the horse's fault. I had pretty much gotten fed up with her whining and the relationship was going no where. I was at the barn where she took lessons with her one day and she was whining to her instructor about how the horse could not do this or that. I asked if I could take the horse out on the course and she said yes.

Instead of the easy course - max 3 foot jumps - I headed to the advanced course - 4 and a few 5 footers. All of our fence crossings on the range were at least 4 feet. She yelled that "he can't do that." We had a flawless round going over 4 and 5 foot jumps. The horse was fine. The problem was not the horse - she could at the level she wanted to ride and blamed the horse..

Many on Internet forums are like Susan - they blame their gear on their failures and lack of knowledge. The basic grass is greener -

Epic story Truman!

Susan married a photographer who blames his gear for results. They first met accidentally at a show. He said, "my dang camera didn't capture your horse's jump in focus" to which she said, "well, it's okay, my dang horse would only jump 2 feet" to which he said, "I got here late because my stupid car didn't accelerate fast enough before the train came through" to which she said, "we're going to get out of here late because the stupid show director can't get his microphone to work, you wanna get a drink"?

And they're living happily ever after, returning TV sets and dishwashers by the dozen. It's a happy but stressful life. The stress is someone else's fault.

 

[dudewithcamera]

Fuji is my equipment of choice, and I’d be satisfied with less than I have for quite some time. The equipment is great, but I have to be conscious of some imperfections in order to maximize the quality of my work.

Acknowledging limitations allows us to maximize results. However, these acknowledgements are shunned.

Thank you Jerry, for doing what you can, and I sure do appreciate the teachers on here as well. I’d be nice to apologize for bringing this up; rather, I’m sorry it’s necessary.

As internet “debates” accelerate according to similar principles of road rage, I shall not respond to anything herein. I just hope for a little more honesty.

I don't think it's really accurate to say that complaints about the system or brand are off limits here. I've experienced the following myself:

- My diopter always adjusts itself between sessions or whenever I get the camera out of the bag.

- The evf is supposed to be useable with polarized glasses. It's not. That's annoying.

- The default eyecup doesn't block enough light on the xt2. I opted to replace it with the extended eyecup.

- Battery life isn't much better if any better on xt2 over xt1 ... Can't speak to other generational upgrades but that was a missed opportunity to improve something.

- I'd like a lock button on the exposure comp dial.

Stuff I've seen complained about a lot by others:

- X100 lens not sharp enough.

- X100 series needs weather sealing.

- 23/2 is soft close up.

- 18-135 is not sharp at various ranges to point of uselessness.

- All models before xt1 or including xt1 too slow to focus.

- 16-80 has mechanical shutter ois vibration issue.

- lens XYZ has too loose aperture ring.

- 56 1.2 not special enough.

- Waxy skintones. "Worms" in foliage.

Etc.

I didn’t read anything in this thread which suggested that “complaints are off limits here.” It would be “slim pickings” on this forum if that were the case. This forum has been, and will continue to be, and place where things both good and bad about Fuji gear are discussed. Neither Bob nor I see ourselves as “protectors of the brand” and we’re a lot more focused on keeping discussions civil than trying to defend Fujifilm or its products.

So your laundry list of perceived faults is fine, but I’m not entirely sure what you were hoping to accomplish. A debate on your list? Additional items you missed? Bottom line is that no one is claiming that Fuji gear is perfect. Any brand has it compromises. You have to decide whether they are acceptable for your individual needs. If not, then there are plenty of other brands out there to choose from (all of which also will have a mix of issues that will make them fall short of perfection).

So, to summarize... what’s your point?

I took the OPs post to indicate that too many people on this forum staunchly defend Fuji and that dissent is not tolerated.

Like you indicated, I have found this forum to be a great resource for the good and the bad. So in that spirit, I listed off some stuff I've experienced, and then added a list of other common complaints I've seen as examples which have all been discussed in lively manner in the forum over time.

I was disagreeing with the OPs premise.

 

[dudewithcamera]

Fuji is my equipment of choice, and I’d be satisfied with less than I have for quite some time. The equipment is great, but I have to be conscious of some imperfections in order to maximize the quality of my work.

Acknowledging limitations allows us to maximize results. However, these acknowledgements are shunned.

Thank you Jerry, for doing what you can, and I sure do appreciate the teachers on here as well. I’d be nice to apologize for bringing this up; rather, I’m sorry it’s necessary.

As internet “debates” accelerate according to similar principles of road rage, I shall not respond to anything herein. I just hope for a little more honesty.

I don't think it's really accurate to say that complaints about the system or brand are off limits here. I've experienced the following myself:

- My diopter always adjusts itself between sessions or whenever I get the camera out of the bag.

- The evf is supposed to be useable with polarized glasses. It's not. That's annoying.

- The default eyecup doesn't block enough light on the xt2. I opted to replace it with the extended eyecup.

- Battery life isn't much better if any better on xt2 over xt1 ... Can't speak to other generational upgrades but that was a missed opportunity to improve something.

- I'd like a lock button on the exposure comp dial.

Stuff I've seen complained about a lot by others:

- X100 lens not sharp enough.

- X100 series needs weather sealing.

- 23/2 is soft close up.

- 18-135 is not sharp at various ranges to point of uselessness.

- All models before xt1 or including xt1 too slow to focus.

- 16-80 has mechanical shutter ois vibration issue.

- lens XYZ has too loose aperture ring.

- 56 1.2 not special enough.

- Waxy skintones. "Worms" in foliage.

Etc.

I didn’t read anything in this thread which suggested that “complaints are off limits here.” It would be “slim pickings” on this forum if that were the case. This forum has been, and will continue to be, and place where things both good and bad about Fuji gear are discussed. Neither Bob nor I see ourselves as “protectors of the brand” and we’re a lot more focused on keeping discussions civil than trying to defend Fujifilm or its products.

So your laundry list of perceived faults is fine, but I’m not entirely sure what you were hoping to accomplish. A debate on your list? Additional items you missed? Bottom line is that no one is claiming that Fuji gear is perfect. Any brand has it compromises. You have to decide whether they are acceptable for your individual needs. If not, then there are plenty of other brands out there to choose from (all of which also will have a mix of issues that will make them fall short of perfection).

So, to summarize... what’s your point?

I’ve highlighted the text in the OPs post where my reading is that the OP is suggesting complaints are off limits here.

EDIT: highlight didn’t seem to work, it’s the second paragraph ending in “these acknowledgements are shunned”. (Referring to “acknowledgements of limitations”, ie complaints)

If I read that correctly, then to me, “dudes” list reads as a thoughtful rebuttal, not as a list of his own complaints.

Exactly.

I bolded the OPs statement that I was replying to.

 

[9VIII]

But just in case a Fuji rep is reading this we should definitely not let them know they're perfect.

We still need a 33mm f1.2 portrait lens. If 33mm f1.0 is out of the picture, fine, cut the aperture half a stop and try again because 50mm is too long for a lot of people.

And I like to take shallow DoF Landscapes. Really what we need is a 23mm f1.0/f1.2... Ok really really what we need is just an f1.2 version of every prime lens from now on.

 

[Truman Prevatt]

...a variety of other mirror-less systems, you'd see all of the complaints that folks register on their respective forums. Sometimes the complaints are hilarious - sometimes they're quite serious. But the complaints are there about various aspects of their camera designs or operational characteristics. So Fuji is not alone.

A quick story before I try to make a point. I started riding a horse at 4, had my very own horse at 6. By the time I was 10, when weather permitted, my Grandfather and I would go out chasing fox across hill and dale with some neighbors. The local ranchers and farmers had put up jump crossings on their fences. Roll forward a couple years and I ended up living with my mother during the school week because the schools in the city were better than the country. I started dating a girl who was a rider. She was a lot richer than me and could afford any horse she wanted. She could never find a jumper that was "good enough." She couldn't jump more that the intermediate course because it was the horse's fault. I had pretty much gotten fed up with her whining and the relationship was going no where. I was at the barn where she took lessons with her one day and she was whining to her instructor about how the horse could not do this or that. I asked if I could take the horse out on the course and she said yes.

Instead of the easy course - max 3 foot jumps - I headed to the advanced course - 4 and a few 5 footers. All of our fence crossings on the range were at least 4 feet. She yelled that "he can't do that." We had a flawless round going over 4 and 5 foot jumps. The horse was fine. The problem was not the horse - she could at the level she wanted to ride and blamed the horse..

Many on Internet forums are like Susan - they blame their gear on their failures and lack of knowledge. The basic grass is greener - the camera will make the a better photographer. Every systems has warts. The horse above I had noticed he was very sensitive to the rider having his weight in the correct position and balanced to initiative the jump. You did that - he was great. Your weight too far back, too far forward or not properly balanced, he would not compensate for rider error.

Fuji makes fine cameras. It is an APSC but yet some complain about it not being full frame and pontificate about Fuji going belly up if they don't move to FF. People whine about focus issues using AF. AF is simply a set of sensors (PDAF points) that will focus of the nearest edge within the focus point - even if that is not where you want to focus. However, some blame the camera for focus failure when the problem is they just don't understand how the camera works and act accordingly. Of course they end up whining here.

Fuji cameras - at least the two I have (Pro2 and H1) are fine cameras. I can't say about the other models since I don't have them. They are easy to use and if you understand them hand have sufficient photographic knowledge and skill will perform well. Will their ergonomics suite everyone - no. But if you don't like their ergonomics then why on earth would you buy one? Often it seems to just complain. There are plenty of other options out there.

The one place I can ding Fuji on is S/W that supports the camera and their testing of new products and F/W before the release. But they eventually get it right - just want to get to market a little too fast. However, their cameras and lenses - at least after the first F/W update to fixe the issues that should have been caught during testing - are top notch and I would contend is not the reason people can't get good results.

Great metaphor, Truman. Thanks!

I'm glad you didn't end with "horses for courses." The photographer simply needs a little more horse sense about his/her craft and tools?

An epilog. Her name was Susan. She dumped me that night, said I embarrassed her since she had been trying to convince her trainer she should tell her daddy she needed a new horse - which would not have helped. Oh well, I learned early on that rich, spoiled women should be avoided at all cost. The poor horse deserved better :-D

I have yet to see a photographer that is "under cameraed" Sure it could happen - but 99.9 percent of the time the camera is capable of taking far better images than the photographer. Sure every device has a wart or two. However, a good photographer will get the best from his equipment. The mediocre photographer will blame his camera for his poor images.

 

[GodSpeaks]

“Give the OP a break”... I did, yesterday, https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63307657

Still don’t know what the original intent of the thread is, and it’s why I asked... so far the silence is deafening?

Perhaps you would understand why the OP has not responded to your query if you had read his last paragraph:

"As internet “debates” accelerate according to similar principles of road rage, I shall not respond to anything herein. I just hope for a little more honesty."

 

[koweb]

“Give the OP a break”... I did, yesterday, https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63307657

Still don’t know what the original intent of the thread is, and it’s why I asked... so far the silence is deafening?

Perhaps you would understand why the OP has not responded to your query if you had read his last paragraph:

"As internet “debates” accelerate according to similar principles of road rage, I shall not respond to anything herein. I just hope for a little more honesty."

Yes actually I did understand that and in fact I quoted it in another reply, here https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63308718 -perhaps you did not read that.

Which to me means the OP is trolling... one of the DPR definitions of which is “flame bait”. The OP does a “drive by” post and ends with “I won’t respond”. I see that decidedly as flame bait.

And, as to understanding what the OP intended, the post was ambiguous enough that I asked for clarity, more than once, as to what the OP intended, with no answer. So I think it presumptuous for anyone to think they understand what the OP intended, as they are not saying.

It just seems really odd to me that some are defending an OP who has indicated they have no intention of engaging in reasonable conversation... yet their whole post seems to complain about how people cannot be reasonable on this forum. In fact, I find it quite baffling that this behaviour is being defended.

Of course, opinions may vary.

 

[Jerry-astro]

I’m going to go out on a limb here and take the liberty of locking this thread — having pretty well read all the posts in here. I’ll start with the fact that if the OP is simply interested in posting a rather controversial opinion, yet doesn’t care enough to take the time to participate in his thread... I’ll have to agree with an opinion or two voiced here that this pretty well meets the definition of trolling. Dropping an “opinion bomb” and then running like heck, is a practice that most people would use to define that term, and it meets my criteria as well.

So just as a matter of practice, if you’re not really interested in discussing the points you make, perhaps you might look for another place to voice them. The intent here is for people to express opinions, discuss them, and for us all to benefit from the interchange and expertise. For the most part this works well, particularly when the interchange is civil and productive, as frankly most are here. However, if your plan is to simply drop an “opinion bomb” and then run like heck, expect a less than welcoming response.

So, thanks to all who participated, and I would close by asking the OP to rethink his posting practices here. It’s simply not consistent with what most people would regard as good forum behavior.

Thanks for ‘listening.”

--
Jerry-Astro
Fujifilm X Forum Co-Mod