Camera Equipment Scams On Ebay By Buyers

[pcrc11]

What happens if you claim you never got the returned item?

If tracking number shows it was delivered ebay considers it returned.

 

[Jonsi]

For every 40 items you sell on ebay there is a scammer.

Can you please provide documentation supporting this claim? As stated in last weeks ebay rant thread I have sold thousands of items on ebay as it is what I do for a full time living and can not remember ever being "Intentionally" scammed. Based on your claim I should be getting scammed 2-3 times a week.

And, on schedule, here is the weekly "I've sold millions of items on ebay, and it never happened to me" post.

You have an odd schedule. That was 6 days ago.

I guess it's not possible that he's never been scammed?

 

[Smaug01]

From this page: https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/02/09/common-ebay-scams-avoid/

"eBay scam 4: The bait and switch

How it works:

You’re selling a common item – an iPhone, perhaps. A buyer wins your auction, pays up and you ship them. So far, so good. Then, however, they get in touch with photographs of a iPhone with a broken screen, claiming that you sold them a dud, or that they broke in transit. They complain to eBay, and with nothing but your word against theirs, eBay sides with the buyer (it’s called the Buyer Protection Policy) and forces you to issue them a refund. They’ve got your fully-functional ‘phones AND your cash.

How to avoid it:

Tough one – if you’ve been stung by it, it’s too late. The best defence is pre-emptive: make sure you ship valuable items with insurance, that the buyer pays for. It’s possible to list with ‘no refunds’ but may deter genuine customers."

And why would "insurance" believe you any more than ebay?

Let's even say your carrier believes you once, and doesn't even raise your rates. They gonna pay next time it happens?

It's not that they BELIEVE anyone more or less. It's just that you're paying for coverage and if someone tries to scam you, they have to try to scam the USPS (federal government) instead of you or me. USPS has more neutral policies than ebay. They would be committing insurance fraud against the US government instead of just scamming one little person.

For example, I have proof that I sent a good one: my seller pix. They claim it broke in transit, so OK follow the USPS insurance claim process. Will they even want to do it? If it was broken in shipping, there would be packaging to prove it. USPS may want to see that and see how it was packed. Or they may just pay. In either case, the seller is not out the money.

 

[abe4652]

From this page: https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/02/09/common-ebay-scams-avoid/

"eBay scam 4: The bait and switch

How it works:

You’re selling a common item – an iPhone, perhaps. A buyer wins your auction, pays up and you ship them. So far, so good. Then, however, they get in touch with photographs of a iPhone with a broken screen, claiming that you sold them a dud, or that they broke in transit. They complain to eBay, and with nothing but your word against theirs, eBay sides with the buyer (it’s called the Buyer Protection Policy) and forces you to issue them a refund. They’ve got your fully-functional ‘phones AND your cash.

How to avoid it:

Tough one – if you’ve been stung by it, it’s too late. The best defence is pre-emptive: make sure you ship valuable items with insurance, that the buyer pays for. It’s possible to list with ‘no refunds’ but may deter genuine customers."

And why would "insurance" believe you any more than ebay?

Let's even say your carrier believes you once, and doesn't even raise your rates. They gonna pay next time it happens?

It's not that they BELIEVE anyone more or less. It's just that you're paying for coverage and if someone tries to scam you, they have to try to scam the USPS (federal government) instead of you or me. USPS has more neutral policies than ebay. They would be committing insurance fraud against the US government instead of just scamming one little person.

For example, I have proof that I sent a good one: my seller pix. They claim it broke in transit, so OK follow the USPS insurance claim process. Will they even want to do it? If it was broken in shipping, there would be packaging to prove it. USPS may want to see that and see how it was packed. Or they may just pay. In either case, the seller is not out the money.

I'm not sure I follow.

You buy insurance against damage happening during transit. Fine, you have pictures showing it was ok before. And then there are pictures showing it was broken after.

I believe that the receiver is supposed to indicate if there was damage occurring during shipping upon receiving the package. If this did not happen, or there is no indication of the package suffering external damage, why would USPS insurance pay anything, ever?

 

[seuadr]

From this page: https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/02/09/common-ebay-scams-avoid/

"eBay scam 4: The bait and switch

How it works:

You’re selling a common item – an iPhone

How to avoid it:

Tough one – if you’ve been stung by it, it’s too late. The best defence is pre-emptive: make sure you ship valuable items with insurance, that the buyer pays for. It’s possible to list with ‘no refunds’ but may deter genuine customers."

how is this tough? your phone has a serial number, a MAC address and an IMEI number - all of which are unique and 2 are very difficult to fake and can't be physically removed.

doesn't sound like the author has put much thought into it.

all the buyer has to do is say the item is "not as described". Once the buyer says the item is not as described Ebay automatically refunds ALL their money

That's not true at all. There is nothing "automatic" about it. Buyer is required to return the item unless seller agrees to just forfeit it.

not really return it but ship something once there is a tracking number the process starts moving.

What happens if you claim you never got the returned item?

my experience has been that once the buyer offers up information showing they've shipped it the refund process gets rolling.

 

[abe4652]

From this page: https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/02/09/common-ebay-scams-avoid/

"eBay scam 4: The bait and switch

How it works:

You’re selling a common item – an iPhone

How to avoid it:

Tough one – if you’ve been stung by it, it’s too late. The best defence is pre-emptive: make sure you ship valuable items with insurance, that the buyer pays for. It’s possible to list with ‘no refunds’ but may deter genuine customers."

how is this tough? your phone has a serial number, a MAC address and an IMEI number - all of which are unique and 2 are very difficult to fake and can't be physically removed.

doesn't sound like the author has put much thought into it.

all the buyer has to do is say the item is "not as described". Once the buyer says the item is not as described Ebay automatically refunds ALL their money

That's not true at all. There is nothing "automatic" about it. Buyer is required to return the item unless seller agrees to just forfeit it.

not really return it but ship something once there is a tracking number the process starts moving.

What happens if you claim you never got the returned item?

my experience has been that once the buyer offers up information showing they've shipped it the refund process gets rolling.

I'm not the one who suggested an iphone as an example.

Most items don't have those identifying characteristics.

 

[seuadr]

From this page: https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/02/09/common-ebay-scams-avoid/

"eBay scam 4: The bait and switch

How it works:

You’re selling a common item – an iPhone

How to avoid it:

Tough one – if you’ve been stung by it, it’s too late. The best defence is pre-emptive: make sure you ship valuable items with insurance, that the buyer pays for. It’s possible to list with ‘no refunds’ but may deter genuine customers."

how is this tough? your phone has a serial number, a MAC address and an IMEI number - all of which are unique and 2 are very difficult to fake and can't be physically removed.

doesn't sound like the author has put much thought into it.

all the buyer has to do is say the item is "not as described". Once the buyer says the item is not as described Ebay automatically refunds ALL their money

That's not true at all. There is nothing "automatic" about it. Buyer is required to return the item unless seller agrees to just forfeit it.

not really return it but ship something once there is a tracking number the process starts moving.

What happens if you claim you never got the returned item?

my experience has been that once the buyer offers up information showing they've shipped it the refund process gets rolling.

I'm not the one who suggested an iphone as an example.

Most items don't have those identifying characteristics.

I didn't suggest you did - all i did was reply to thread, i guess it attributed the notification to you?

 

[Smaug01]

From this page: https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/02/09/common-ebay-scams-avoid/

"eBay scam 4: The bait and switch

How it works:

You’re selling a common item – an iPhone, perhaps. A buyer wins your auction, pays up and you ship them. So far, so good. Then, however, they get in touch with photographs of a iPhone with a broken screen, claiming that you sold them a dud, or that they broke in transit. They complain to eBay, and with nothing but your word against theirs, eBay sides with the buyer (it’s called the Buyer Protection Policy) and forces you to issue them a refund. They’ve got your fully-functional ‘phones AND your cash.

How to avoid it:

Tough one – if you’ve been stung by it, it’s too late. The best defence is pre-emptive: make sure you ship valuable items with insurance, that the buyer pays for. It’s possible to list with ‘no refunds’ but may deter genuine customers."

And why would "insurance" believe you any more than ebay?

Let's even say your carrier believes you once, and doesn't even raise your rates. They gonna pay next time it happens?

It's not that they BELIEVE anyone more or less. It's just that you're paying for coverage and if someone tries to scam you, they have to try to scam the USPS (federal government) instead of you or me. USPS has more neutral policies than ebay. They would be committing insurance fraud against the US government instead of just scamming one little person.

For example, I have proof that I sent a good one: my seller pix. They claim it broke in transit, so OK follow the USPS insurance claim process. Will they even want to do it? If it was broken in shipping, there would be packaging to prove it. USPS may want to see that and see how it was packed. Or they may just pay. In either case, the seller is not out the money.

I'm not sure I follow.

You buy insurance against damage happening during transit. Fine, you have pictures showing it was ok before. And then there are pictures showing it was broken after.

I believe that the receiver is supposed to indicate if there was damage occurring during shipping upon receiving the package. If this did not happen, or there is no indication of the package suffering external damage, why would USPS insurance pay anything, ever?

That's right. So if the product was good when it was shipped and no package damage was reported, then USPS or UPS might want to see how it was packed. If it was packed well too, that means the buyer's a liar. They won't pay.

Also, a side effect of this process is if the buyer doesn't follow all the right procedures, he won't get anything.

This is assuming he claims it was damaged during shipping, not that it was shipped to him already damaged.

So the seller essentially gives the scammer several chances to screw up.

It's not going to work every time, but it gives us another chance not to be scammed.

 

[pcrc11]

That's right. So if the product was good when it was shipped and no package damage was reported, then USPS or UPS might want to see how it was packed. If it was packed well too, that means the buyer's a liar. They won't pay.

Also, a side effect of this process is if the buyer doesn't follow all the right procedures, he won't get anything.

This is assuming he claims it was damaged during shipping, not that it was shipped to him already damaged.

So the seller essentially gives the scammer several chances to screw up.

It's not going to work every time, but it gives us another chance not to be scammed.

As someone who has filed quite a few insurance claims here are my experiences

FedEx. IF claim is under $100, file your claim online. No supporting documentation or pictures are required. Within a week you will have a check in hand for the amount of the claim plus the shipping you paid. If claim is over $100 they require pictures. They will deny your claim no matter what the pictures show and you will have to refile the claim asking for $100 and within a week you will have check in hand for $100 plus your shipping

USPS. File a claim for up to $50 if you used USPS priority, no pictures or docs needed. If you are an ebay seller USPS will extend the insurance up to $100. Within 2 weeks you will have a check in hand for the claim but they do not reimburse you for shipping. Over the $50 or $100 you will be denied.

UPS. File a claim, provide documentation and you will be denied. Refile showing pictures of the UPS driver lighting your package on fire, running over the package with his truck, your item falling from the sky out of a UPS plane, or your item never showing tracking as delivered because UPS lost it and you will be denied. Refile and denied. Then you give up.

As a full time ebay seller I find it easier to just self insure. Take .25 from each sale and put it into an account, then when you have a claim you know will not be paid just pay it to yourself from that account.

 

[abe4652]

From this page: https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/02/09/common-ebay-scams-avoid/

"eBay scam 4: The bait and switch

How it works:

You’re selling a common item – an iPhone, perhaps. A buyer wins your auction, pays up and you ship them. So far, so good. Then, however, they get in touch with photographs of a iPhone with a broken screen, claiming that you sold them a dud, or that they broke in transit. They complain to eBay, and with nothing but your word against theirs, eBay sides with the buyer (it’s called the Buyer Protection Policy) and forces you to issue them a refund. They’ve got your fully-functional ‘phones AND your cash.

How to avoid it:

Tough one – if you’ve been stung by it, it’s too late. The best defence is pre-emptive: make sure you ship valuable items with insurance, that the buyer pays for. It’s possible to list with ‘no refunds’ but may deter genuine customers."

And why would "insurance" believe you any more than ebay?

Let's even say your carrier believes you once, and doesn't even raise your rates. They gonna pay next time it happens?

It's not that they BELIEVE anyone more or less. It's just that you're paying for coverage and if someone tries to scam you, they have to try to scam the USPS (federal government) instead of you or me. USPS has more neutral policies than ebay. They would be committing insurance fraud against the US government instead of just scamming one little person.

For example, I have proof that I sent a good one: my seller pix. They claim it broke in transit, so OK follow the USPS insurance claim process. Will they even want to do it? If it was broken in shipping, there would be packaging to prove it. USPS may want to see that and see how it was packed. Or they may just pay. In either case, the seller is not out the money.

I'm not sure I follow.

You buy insurance against damage happening during transit. Fine, you have pictures showing it was ok before. And then there are pictures showing it was broken after.

I believe that the receiver is supposed to indicate if there was damage occurring during shipping upon receiving the package. If this did not happen, or there is no indication of the package suffering external damage, why would USPS insurance pay anything, ever?

That's right. So if the product was good when it was shipped and no package damage was reported, then USPS or UPS might want to see how it was packed. If it was packed well too, that means the buyer's a liar. They won't pay.

Also, a side effect of this process is if the buyer doesn't follow all the right procedures, he won't get anything.

This is assuming he claims it was damaged during shipping, not that it was shipped to him already damaged.

So the seller essentially gives the scammer several chances to screw up.

It's not going to work every time, but it gives us another chance not to be scammed.

Wait a second.

We are talking about the seller shipping to buyer. The seller/shipper buys insurance. If USPS damages the item in shipping, then the seller shipper is reimbursed. The buyer would have to show that there was damage in transit, and I am sure some visible damage to the shipping container.

If the buyer doesn't say anything about damage during shipping, no insurance ever gets involved. The buyer gets his money back from ebay, and the seller is out the item.

 

[pcrc11]

Wait a second.

We are talking about the seller shipping to buyer. The seller/shipper buys insurance. If USPS damages the item in shipping, then the seller shipper is reimbursed. The buyer would have to show that there was damage in transit, and I am sure some visible damage to the shipping container.

If the buyer doesn't say anything about damage during shipping, no insurance ever gets involved. The buyer gets his money back from ebay, and the seller is out the item.

On ebay

1.The buyer contacts the seller and says the item was damaged in shipping.

2.The shipper immediately sends buyer the full refund.

3.The seller then files for the insurance claim.

4.Refer to previous post to see the usual outcomes.

 

[Ring A]

That's right. So if the product was good when it was shipped and no package damage was reported, then USPS or UPS might want to see how it was packed. If it was packed well too, that means the buyer's a liar. They won't pay.

Also, a side effect of this process is if the buyer doesn't follow all the right procedures, he won't get anything.

This is assuming he claims it was damaged during shipping, not that it was shipped to him already damaged.

So the seller essentially gives the scammer several chances to screw up.

It's not going to work every time, but it gives us another chance not to be scammed.

As someone who has filed quite a few insurance claims here are my experiences

FedEx. IF claim is under $100, file your claim online. No supporting documentation or pictures are required. Within a week you will have a check in hand for the amount of the claim plus the shipping you paid. If claim is over $100 they require pictures. They will deny your claim no matter what the pictures show and you will have to refile the claim asking for $100 and within a week you will have check in hand for $100 plus your shipping

USPS. File a claim for up to $50 if you used USPS priority, no pictures or docs needed. If you are an ebay seller USPS will extend the insurance up to $100. Within 2 weeks you will have a check in hand for the claim but they do not reimburse you for shipping. Over the $50 or $100 you will be denied.

UPS. File a claim, provide documentation and you will be denied. Refile showing pictures of the UPS driver lighting your package on fire, running over the package with his truck, your item falling from the sky out of a UPS plane, or your item never showing tracking as delivered because UPS lost it and you will be denied. Refile and denied. Then you give up.

As a full time ebay seller I find it easier to just self insure. Take .25 from each sale and put it into an account, then when you have a claim you know will not be paid just pay it to yourself from that account.

Thanks, this is good to know.

 

[abe4652]

Wait a second.

We are talking about the seller shipping to buyer. The seller/shipper buys insurance. If USPS damages the item in shipping, then the seller shipper is reimbursed. The buyer would have to show that there was damage in transit, and I am sure some visible damage to the shipping container.

If the buyer doesn't say anything about damage during shipping, no insurance ever gets involved. The buyer gets his money back from ebay, and the seller is out the item.

On ebay

1.The buyer contacts the seller and says the item was damaged in shipping.

2.The shipper immediately sends buyer the full refund.

3.The seller then files for the insurance claim.

4.Refer to previous post to see the usual outcomes.

I thought we were discussing a case in which the buyer is a scammer, and says he got a defective item, and returns a defective item which is not exactly what was sent. Or even just sends back a brick, saying that is what was sent.

 

[Randy2468]

Why doesn't another company compete with Ebay, but closer to the original idea of an online auction, with equal protection for buyers and sellers through an escrow service? Or there is no sufficient ROI with this business?

Many have tried. Many sites have come and gone. There are alternatives, but none ever grew to make any serious dent on ebay. People are creatures of habit.

AtomicMall

Etsy

BlueJay

to name a few. ebay has dramatically changed it's business model since the early days in order to stay competitive to sites such as amazon. In the process, sellers lost most of their protections. While complaints raged, an insignificant number left ebay in spite of the complaints.

 

[Jonsi]

Why doesn't another company compete with Ebay, but closer to the original idea of an online auction, with equal protection for buyers and sellers through an escrow service? Or there is no sufficient ROI with this business?

Many have tried. Many sites have come and gone. There are alternatives, but none ever grew to make any serious dent on ebay. People are creatures of habit.

AtomicMall

Etsy

BlueJay

to name a few.

I've never heard of the other 2, but does Etsy have auctions or are you just comparing marketplaces?

Yahoo Auctions was the first competitor. Started up a year after eBay changed its name to eBay. Lasted 9 years. Not bad.

 

[Smaug01]

From this page: https://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/02/09/common-ebay-scams-avoid/

"eBay scam 4: The bait and switch

How it works:

You’re selling a common item – an iPhone, perhaps. A buyer wins your auction, pays up and you ship them. So far, so good. Then, however, they get in touch with photographs of a iPhone with a broken screen, claiming that you sold them a dud, or that they broke in transit. They complain to eBay, and with nothing but your word against theirs, eBay sides with the buyer (it’s called the Buyer Protection Policy) and forces you to issue them a refund. They’ve got your fully-functional ‘phones AND your cash.

How to avoid it:

Tough one – if you’ve been stung by it, it’s too late. The best defence is pre-emptive: make sure you ship valuable items with insurance, that the buyer pays for. It’s possible to list with ‘no refunds’ but may deter genuine customers."

And why would "insurance" believe you any more than ebay?

Let's even say your carrier believes you once, and doesn't even raise your rates. They gonna pay next time it happens?

It's not that they BELIEVE anyone more or less. It's just that you're paying for coverage and if someone tries to scam you, they have to try to scam the USPS (federal government) instead of you or me. USPS has more neutral policies than ebay. They would be committing insurance fraud against the US government instead of just scamming one little person.

For example, I have proof that I sent a good one: my seller pix. They claim it broke in transit, so OK follow the USPS insurance claim process. Will they even want to do it? If it was broken in shipping, there would be packaging to prove it. USPS may want to see that and see how it was packed. Or they may just pay. In either case, the seller is not out the money.

I'm not sure I follow.

You buy insurance against damage happening during transit. Fine, you have pictures showing it was ok before. And then there are pictures showing it was broken after.

I believe that the receiver is supposed to indicate if there was damage occurring during shipping upon receiving the package. If this did not happen, or there is no indication of the package suffering external damage, why would USPS insurance pay anything, ever?

That's right. So if the product was good when it was shipped and no package damage was reported, then USPS or UPS might want to see how it was packed. If it was packed well too, that means the buyer's a liar. They won't pay.

Also, a side effect of this process is if the buyer doesn't follow all the right procedures, he won't get anything.

This is assuming he claims it was damaged during shipping, not that it was shipped to him already damaged.

So the seller essentially gives the scammer several chances to screw up.

It's not going to work every time, but it gives us another chance not to be scammed.

Wait a second.

We are talking about the seller shipping to buyer. The seller/shipper buys insurance. If USPS damages the item in shipping, then the seller shipper is reimbursed. The buyer would have to show that there was damage in transit, and I am sure some visible damage to the shipping container.

If the buyer doesn't say anything about damage during shipping, no insurance ever gets involved. The buyer gets his money back from ebay, and the seller is out the item.

Yes, correct. This is just one way it pans out, depending on what the buyer claims.

 

[pcrc11]

On ebay

1.The buyer contacts the seller and says the item was damaged in shipping.

2.The shipper immediately sends buyer the full refund.

3.The seller then files for the insurance claim.

4.Refer to previous post to see the usual outcomes.

I thought we were discussing a case in which the buyer is a scammer, and says he got a defective item, and returns a defective item which is not exactly what was sent. Or even just sends back a brick, saying that is what was sent.

I was not referring to this case in particular, just pointing out how ebay expects sellers to handle a situation with an item damaged in shipping. As with most forum topics this one derailed days ago.

 

[Ring A]

On ebay

1.The buyer contacts the seller and says the item was damaged in shipping.

2.The shipper immediately sends buyer the full refund.

3.The seller then files for the insurance claim.

4.Refer to previous post to see the usual outcomes.

I thought we were discussing a case in which the buyer is a scammer, and says he got a defective item, and returns a defective item which is not exactly what was sent. Or even just sends back a brick, saying that is what was sent.

I was not referring to this case in particular, just pointing out how ebay expects sellers to handle a situation with an item damaged in shipping. As with most forum topics this one derailed days ago.

Yea, what happened to the OP?

 

[seuadr]

On ebay

1.The buyer contacts the seller and says the item was damaged in shipping.

2.The shipper immediately sends buyer the full refund.

3.The seller then files for the insurance claim.

4.Refer to previous post to see the usual outcomes.

I thought we were discussing a case in which the buyer is a scammer, and says he got a defective item, and returns a defective item which is not exactly what was sent. Or even just sends back a brick, saying that is what was sent.

I was not referring to this case in particular, just pointing out how ebay expects sellers to handle a situation with an item damaged in shipping. As with most forum topics this one derailed days ago.

Yea, what happened to the OP?

based on his forum activity he's off talking about iphones and taxes ;-)

 

[Mackiesback]

On ebay

1.The buyer contacts the seller and says the item was damaged in shipping.

2.The shipper immediately sends buyer the full refund.

3.The seller then files for the insurance claim.

4.Refer to previous post to see the usual outcomes.

I thought we were discussing a case in which the buyer is a scammer, and says he got a defective item, and returns a defective item which is not exactly what was sent. Or even just sends back a brick, saying that is what was sent.

I was not referring to this case in particular, just pointing out how ebay expects sellers to handle a situation with an item damaged in shipping. As with most forum topics this one derailed days ago.

Yea, what happened to the OP?

based on his forum activity he's off talking about iphones and taxes ;-)

He definitely does not like taxes.