More companies should make compacts like this.

AdrianTWQ

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Love this camera. I was using a ZR3600, then switch to a TG 850 and a XQ1 for a while, before returning to Casio and got this ZR5100 (Asian version of ZR5000).

While it's not water and shock resistant compared to the TG 850, it has a wider lens (19mm compared to 21mm) and far better image quality, it's not on the same level as XQ1 in terms of IQ, but the XQ1 does have a selfie friendly flip screen and it's FL is 25-100mm, doesn't really cut it for me. I did consider Lx10 and RX100 M3, but they aren't wide enough. While it's definitely not a camera for say, wild life and sports, it's 1/1.7" Sensor still has quality above that of nearly smart phones, and definitely better then all smartphones when it comes to Selfies. Especially group Selfies.

The 19mm FL at wide makes it great also for group and scenery photos, and it offers awesome level of beautification options for taking Portraits. Overall, this camera is small, beautiful, and comes with the widest FL of any compacts in the market. It's really a fun camera, for parties and events, it allows taking pictures of friends without having to take like 10 steps backwards, it's convenient and fun.

More camera makers should make compacts, maybe with 1" sensors, that starts at a wider FL, like 15mm or 18mm, instead of the common 24mm, 25mm and 28mm. For Rugged Tough Cameras, they should consider a 1/1.7" or 2/3" sensor and have the FL starts ar 15mm or 18mm. Before that happens, the ZR5100 to me is the perfect daily camera, unless I need better quality, then I will go for Mirrorless ILCs.

If someone would make a Constant Aperture Bridge Camera with EVF, a Sensor size of 1/1.7" or bigger, and a FL that ends at 600mm, and a zoom factor below 15x, preferable around 8x to 12x, it will be a perfect pair with this,
 
Unfortunately, Adrian, I don’t think that any camera maker is going to take up the challenge for such versatile small cameras at the same price bracket as Casio did. The competition from smart phone cameras has been too strong. :-(

However, as yo say, the ZR5100 is certainly a very convenient model, with a wide lens for parties, events and groups - and for scenes in places such as Venice, Amsterdam, or Petersburg, where 10 steps backwards can land you in a canal, or the narrow streets in picturesque old towns, where backing up is impossible.

I find it a more convenient complement to my ZR800 because they share similar size, controls, batteries, and menus. And with a ClearViewer for eye level operation it is much lighter and less bulky than my Panasonic LX7. Though with its similar sized 1/1.7” sensor, I consider it a reasonable trade off against the LX7’s much faster F1.4 lens and slightly wider 18mm accessory lens, though the ZR5100’s High Speed Night Shot setting is not as good in very dim llight.

Unfortunately, the darkest scene I have taken with the ZR5100 was a mockup of the command centre of the HMAS Otway at the submarine museum in Holbrook, Australia. As I had entered the museum at the same time as our guide had called for our group to get aboard our tour bus, my visit was rushed, a series of 'point, click, move on, point, click', and I did not hold the camera steady enough. But I feel that the results are an adequte graphic record of the scene.

95f14acb3443471a903990b44e64481c.jpg

c3ddbb42bf4f4cbb8950a0063b38a39d.jpg



--
Cyril
 
Unfortunately, Adrian, I don’t think that any camera maker is going to take up the challenge for such versatile small cameras at the same price bracket as Casio did. The competition from smart phone cameras has been too strong. :-(
Yep, sad, I really hope there will be a new 18 or 21mm small camera, I don't mind if it's of a higher price bracket.
However, as yo say, the ZR5100 is certainly a very convenient model, with a wide lens for parties, events and groups - and for scenes in places such as Venice, Amsterdam, or Petersburg, where 10 steps backwards can land you in a canal, or the narrow streets in picturesque old towns, where backing up is impossible.
Yep, it's super useful, hope a 1" version can be made by someone. The Nikkon One series with 6.7-13mm was about 18-35mm, it was the closest to what I'd like. Something 1" and say, 15-(40~55)mm.
 
As Cyril said, the rise of the smartphone and its computational abilities has steadily eaten up the small camera market, and it hasn't finished yet. Endless amounts of R&D dollars available for smartphone development can do miracles.

System cameras and some very expensive 1" compacts will survive for a while longer, but come back in say 10 or 15 years and it could be hard to find "real" cameras for sale at all plus any survivors will be extremely expensive, catering more to the professional shooters only.

In my case more than a few Casios in the family, the most recently used by my wife and I being the ZR850, ZR5100 and ZR3700 - but they have been sidelined on our last recent holiday to both using the Sony RX100M6 (one each that is) and to get wider than "24mm" I used an abbreviated M4/3 kit comprising an Olympus E-P5 with a Panasonic 8-18mm lens on it to get the "16-36mm" range.

The result of using the 1" sensors was getting way more reliable low light shots than with the Casios within the "24-200mm" range plus a crop to take it to "400mm" at a resolution of 5MP still proves to be extremely good.

In the end the M4/3 gear in that "16-36mm" range seemed to be doing most of the shots for me but of course if picking off details or needing a more discreet and quiet camera then the Sony came into play.

Next trip (=when?) could have me downsize more to try and see how it goes with two compact cameras only, the Sony and the ZR5100 to get that all important wider than "24mm" range. That would be nicer to use - two small belt pouches instead of my last trip a small belt pouch and a small snoot bag dangling from my shoulder.

Aside: In my case getting older and any trip wrestling bags, small backpacks and camera gear gets to be a pain, so I aim to simplify more. Plus of course the painful security checks at airports where everything needs to be X-rayed plus in my case usually diverting my small backpack to be dug through trying to see what the "funny bits" were.

The "funny bits" being chargers, cables, backup disks etc. In future I think I will ditch most of that as the intended backup device of the WD Wireless Passport went crazy halfway through and failed to backup the last half of the trip. Luckily I always carry too much card capacity so it was all safe on the cards anyway.

Another aside: As a non smartphone user I can see that I will need to eventually to change my ways, so much of life and money and airport check-in info now needs a phone, plus in Ireland and England so many people use the phone only, no cash, no credit or debit cards, it's always the phone. Maybe I will need to eventually catch up to the 21st century. :-(

That loops me back to the real world situation, that is, if you have a clever smartphone with some reasonable photo capability then it is pointless to drag along a separate camera. Hence the collapse of camera sales.

Regards..... Guy
 
Having spent decades travelling with kits of SLRs, lenses, film cassettes of different speeds, color and b&w; meters; flashguns; filters; etc.; I saw digicams with built-in autofocus, auto exposure, still and video, in small bodies, just as zoom lens prices (and my strength, stamina - and memory! ) were falling, as a real convenience. I could at last use the small, handy, graphic notetaking devices, to indulge my wish to record many of the interesting things I see while travelling. Few of my friends or family seem to have attention spans for more than about 20 frames of my minutiae. So my photography is primarily a self-indugence, and I'm personally satisfied with IQs well below exhibition standard, which is often the best I can achieve while quickly moving through changing venues.

But no little camera could capture very wide ranges of situations and subjects: and a single camera could fail, or run out of memory/battery, just as I'd reached some fantastic, exotic location at great expense (I wish!). So at least two cameras, with complementary capabilities seemed a reasonable precaution. For me, the ZR800 and ZR5100 currently meet that need well, with similar menus, batteries, and charging cables, and avoiding the added confusion, cost, and weight of interchangeable lenses. The evolution of smart phones with acceptable cameras - and cases to guard them from dust, spray, and drizzle - brought an additional backup: even more accessible than any 'real' camera.

To carry two small cameras I use a cross-body shoulder bag. Giving ready accessability to the cameras - and any other documents - when shifted to hang in front of my left hip, it also allows easy rapid movement when slung behind my left hip. I find that more convenient than a backpack. However, if I need to remove a pullover or jacket as the day warms up, I can carry it in a lightweight shopping bag which is kept in the shoulder bag, and has handle loops that allow wearing like a backpack. Spare and full memory cards, and a spare battery are in a small case, along with a charging cords for phone and cameras, coiled up in a small plastic bag, in the shoulder bag.

A universal multi-socket plug, and additional charging cord are in my carry-on bag, along with toiletries, medicines, a lightweight pair of shoes and two changes of shirt, socks and underwear - a precaution followed since having a five day delay in the arrival of our luggage during a week’s stay in Paris, and the complete loss of my large suitcase during a bus transfer from a Shanghai hotel to the airport. It had a second multi-socket plug and spare charging cords. I’ve had difficulty with backing up photos in transit, so rely entirely on plenty of memory cards.

Those have been my choices. Others may have different preferences.

As for phone cameras, if I interpret the tech specs of the iPhone11Pro correctly, the two longer lenses have optical zooms between 13-52mm and 26-104mm. That implies that the longer one might be replaced with a 104mm lens zooming between 52 and 208mm, whilst a third lens might be used to cover 208 to 816mm. Software to provide a smooth transition between 13 and 816 might then be a possibility. But I suspect physics might prevent such a thing within the phone’s limited width, unless that is being prepared for the iPhone 12!

--
Cyril
 
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I thought it would be interesting to see what range the ZR5100 could achieve, so took a couple of scenes at different zoom settings, 19mm, 95mm, and 95mm with 4x digital zoom as well. As I expected, the latter revealed flaws when enlarged beyond about postcard size. But a convenient range for landscapes.

19mm
19mm

95mm
95mm

[ATTACH alt="95mm x4 digital zoom At a 5.5x7.25 " on my screen this seems just acceptable. But any larger really starts to show flaws"]2358540[/ATTACH]
95mm x4 digital zoom At a 5.5x7.25 " on my screen this seems just acceptable. But any larger really starts to show flaws

19mm
19mm

95mm.  I didn't shoot the tree at 95mm x4 zoom as I felt the extreme contrast of the branches against the sky would reveal a lot of purple fringeing.
95mm. I didn't shoot the tree at 95mm x4 zoom as I felt the extreme contrast of the branches against the sky would reveal a lot of purple fringeing.

--
Cyril
 

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I thought it would be interesting to see what range the ZR5100 could achieve, so took a couple of scenes at different zoom settings, 19mm, 95mm, and 95mm with 4x digital zoom as well. As I expected, the latter revealed flaws when enlarged beyond about postcard size. But a convenient range for landscapes.
As I was used to the quality achieved by my M4/3 gear I didn't quite warm to the ZR5100 at first. My pixel peeping habits intervened.

But once I realised that all I was ever going to do eventually was make slide shows with ProShow Gold or maybe an occasional photo book (but they take so much time to create!) then the absolute quality of any image is simply down to the overall content and not down to every little pixel behaving itself nicely.

Testing images on my 43" 4K TV and back at comfortable seating distance I realised that even a 1MP image looks good - I need to get closer than arm's length to the screen to see that it is "not enough resolution". So those 4x digital zooms start to become very useful.

Mainly for my wife's use we retired the excellent ZR850 and changed her to a Sony RX100M6 ("24-200mm" zoom range with entirely acceptable 2x digital zoom to "400mm") mainly to give her the benefit of much better low light shooting. I had so much fun testing her copy that I bought another one for myself.

But, big but, I did miss that wider than "24mm" range - so the recent 6 week trip to Ireland and England took an abbreviated M4/3 kit alongside my Sony M6. The M4/3 kit had 3 lenses, a tiny 12-32mm, a tiny 7.5mm fisheye, and a larger 8-18mm lens that delivered my favourite useful wide in the "16-36mm" range. The fisheye was used twice, the 12-32mm was never used and the 8-18mm did thousands of shots, far more than I took with the Sony.

Again it was slightly cumbersome to always have that small snoot bag of M4/3 to contend with so any future trip planned that involves air travel will be the Sony plus the ZR5100 in two small belt pouches. That will make life easier and deliver me the useful range of "19mm to 200mm" optically and up to "400mm" and beyond by cropping the excellent tele results of the Sony. The big overlap in ranges will help with less swapping of cameras at critical moments.

So next day trip away from home I should take the ZR5100 plus Sony M6 to see how they work in practice together and how the mixed results look in a slide show. Maybe catch the train+tram to Newcastle for the day as I haven't been there for some time now. :-)

Thanks for the example shots, Cyril, and it helps make me get off my backside and thinking about practical lightweight solutions for air travel without getting caught up in the pixel peeping hysteria that seems to envelop the M4/3 forum at least.

Regards..... Guy
 
Love this camera. I was using a ZR3600, then switch to a TG 850 and a XQ1 for a while, before returning to Casio and got this ZR5100 (Asian version of ZR5000).

While it's not water and shock resistant compared to the TG 850, it has a wider lens (19mm compared to 21mm) and far better image quality, it's not on the same level as XQ1 in terms of IQ, but the XQ1 does have a selfie friendly flip screen and it's FL is 25-100mm, doesn't really cut it for me. I did consider Lx10 and RX100 M3, but they aren't wide enough. While it's definitely not a camera for say, wild life and sports, it's 1/1.7" Sensor still has quality above that of nearly smart phones, and definitely better then all smartphones when it comes to Selfies. Especially group Selfies.

The 19mm FL at wide makes it great also for group and scenery photos, and it offers awesome level of beautification options for taking Portraits. Overall, this camera is small, beautiful, and comes with the widest FL of any compacts in the market. It's really a fun camera, for parties and events, it allows taking pictures of friends without having to take like 10 steps backwards, it's convenient and fun.

More camera makers should make compacts, maybe with 1" sensors, that starts at a wider FL, like 15mm or 18mm, instead of the common 24mm, 25mm and 28mm. For Rugged Tough Cameras, they should consider a 1/1.7" or 2/3" sensor and have the FL starts ar 15mm or 18mm. Before that happens, the ZR5100 to me is the perfect daily camera, unless I need better quality, then I will go for Mirrorless ILCs.

If someone would make a Constant Aperture Bridge Camera with EVF, a Sensor size of 1/1.7" or bigger, and a FL that ends at 600mm, and a zoom factor below 15x, preferable around 8x to 12x, it will be a perfect pair with this,
Not only does no one make this kind of camera any more, Casio has left the market alltogether and no longer produces cameras :-(
 
Cyril Catt wrote: I thought it would be interesting to see what range the ZR5100 could achieve, so took a couple of scenes at different zoom settings, 19mm, 95mm, and 95mm with 4x digital zoom as well. As I expected, the latter revealed flaws when enlarged beyond about postcard size. But a convenient range for landscapes.
As I was used to the quality achieved by my M4/3 gear I didn't quite warm to the ZR5100 at first. My pixel peeping habits intervened.

But once I realised that all I was ever going to do eventually was make slide shows with ProShow Gold or maybe an occasional photo book (but they take so much time to create!) then the absolute quality of any image is simply down to the overall content and not down to every little pixel behaving itself nicely.

Testing images on my 43" 4K TV and back at comfortable seating distance I realised that even a 1MP image looks good - I need to get closer than arm's length to the screen to see that it is "not enough resolution". So those 4x digital zooms start to become very useful.

Mainly for my wife's use we retired the excellent ZR850 and changed her to a Sony RX100M6 ("24-200mm" zoom range with entirely acceptable 2x digital zoom to "400mm") mainly to give her the benefit of much better low light shooting. I had so much fun testing her copy that I bought another one for myself.

But, big but, I did miss that wider than "24mm" range - so the recent 6 week trip to Ireland and England took an abbreviated M4/3 kit alongside my Sony M6. The M4/3 kit had 3 lenses, a tiny 12-32mm, a tiny 7.5mm fisheye, and a larger 8-18mm lens that delivered my favourite useful wide in the "16-36mm" range. The fisheye was used twice, the 12-32mm was never used and the 8-18mm did thousands of shots, far more than I took with the Sony.

Again it was slightly cumbersome to always have that small snoot bag of M4/3 to contend with so any future trip planned that involves air travel will be the Sony plus the ZR5100 in two small belt pouches. That will make life easier and deliver me the useful range of "19mm to 200mm" optically and up to "400mm" and beyond by cropping the excellent tele results of the Sony. The big overlap in ranges will help with less swapping of cameras at critical moments.

So next day trip away from home I should take the ZR5100 plus Sony M6 to see how they work in practice together and how the mixed results look in a slide show. Maybe catch the train+tram to Newcastle for the day as I haven't been there for some time now. :-)
Guy, if so I hope you enjoy having to break the trip to change to what is effectively Victorian technology, achieved at the cost of millions of taxpayers' money, retailers' bankruptcies, and delays to existing roadusers and city bound commuters or beachbound residents from the Hunter's further communities. :-(
Thanks for the example shots, Cyril, and it helps make me get off my backside and thinking about practical lightweight solutions for air travel without getting caught up in the pixel peeping hysteria that seems to envelop the M4/3 forum at least.

Regards..... Guy
Preparing for travelling, trying to balance my enthusiasms, punctilious inclinations, and responsibilities, by wrestling between preparing for every eventuality or just winging it, I keep in mind G.K.Chesterton’s aphorism “If a job’s worth doing, it’s worth doing badly”. So if a picture looks okay on my 5k screen, it’s more than adequate for the needs of my personal ideosyncracies.

But having spent a lot of time, effort, and (with octogenarian travel insurance rates in mind) money, getting to some remote spot, I want to make sure that the opportunity of a five minute photo stop can be savoured again in the comfort of home. As versatile a range of capabilities as possible is necessary to maximise my chances of getting a suitable shot, so I consider at least a pair of small cameras with complementary capabilities is necessary - the pair also going some way to insuring against mechanical failure of a single camera. Fixed lens cameras reduce the range of capabilities, but also reduce the cost of risk of loss by accidental damage or theft, and complexity of operation. And my choices have to fit conveniently with all my necessary daily kit in a shoulder bag - I don't like belt bags.

It was only about a decade ago that it started to become easier to find fixed lens cameras with wide angled zoom lenses, as manufacturers realised that the distortions of low cost lenses could be ameliorated by in-camera digital processing, and I was glad to use them for many cramped situations. Conversely, more recently, small, fixed lens ‘Action’ cameras with very wide ‘fisheye’ lenses have become acceptable, despite considerable distortion. But I find them unsuited to my needs. They seem to me better suited to video in action situations which I am unlikely to encounter. And I feel video takes up too much time - capturing and in post - though I am willing to use time lapse series to document routes taken in strange cities, and the ZR Casios seem to have a more suitable range of timing for that.

Although sweep panoramas and better stitching apps have minimised the need for wide angle lenses in many outdoor situations, cramped situations and dim lighting require fast, wide lenses, or, at least for still subjects, relatively long exposures or means to take and merge numerous bursts. Previously, I used the LX3 with accessory 18mm lens in that role, later the LX7 and accessory. But despite its superior IQ, I felt the bulk, weight, additional charging needs, and difference in menu weighed more heavily against the LX7 than the ZR5100’s slightly narrower coverage, and reliance on burst merging rather than outright optical speed.

I still have my first 35mm camera, bought in 1956. Though unused for years, it still works. In the last two decades I’ve bought about two dozen digicams. Few that were kept still work. And as technology continues to rapidly change, I’m averse to rushing madly into more costly ‘better’ models, although the rate of improvement in phone cameras suggests that one may supplant the ZR5100 in the next few years, if some equivalent to an EVF can be arranged, to overcome screen glare, and permit eye level framing; leaving me needing only a replacement for the ZR800 when it finally succumbs.
 
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[Guy] ....Maybe catch the train+tram to Newcastle for the day as I haven't been there for some time now. :-)
Guy, if so I hope you enjoy having to break the trip to change to what is effectively Victorian technology, achieved at the cost of millions of taxpayers' money, retailers' bankruptcies, and delays to existing roadusers and city bound commuters or beachbound residents from the Hunter's further communities. :-(
Ha! The exact same story as is happening in Sydney city. The re-introduction of trams (now fashionably called "light rail") is running years late, way way over budget and has caused business losses and closures and has generally p*ssed off the whole population. The same as Newcastle but on a way bigger scale of disaster.

Glory be, they may actually be running soon (whatever "soon" means we have yet to find out).

The weird bit is that they are going to run double sets in the city at 67m long, that will cause more traffic jams as the length means more chance of blocked intersections.

The tram network they had worked quite well until the pressure of commercial interest (and most likely bribes paid to politicians) saw it all ripped out in the late 50's to early 60's and smelly diesel buses replace them in the canyons of the city and beyond.

The only thing that makes sense in Sydney is the building of the Metro lines, so new lines and stations and most tidily underground.
[Guy] Thanks for the example shots, Cyril, and it helps make me get off my backside and thinking about practical lightweight solutions for air travel without getting caught up in the pixel peeping hysteria that seems to envelop the M4/3 forum at least.
Preparing for travelling, trying to balance my enthusiasms, punctilious inclinations, and responsibilities, by wrestling between preparing for every eventuality or just winging it, I keep in mind G.K.Chesterton’s aphorism “If a job’s worth doing, it’s worth doing badly”. So if a picture looks okay on my 5k screen, it’s more than adequate for the needs of my personal ideosyncracies.
Yes, many in the camera forums totally ignore the watchability test and insist on noses against screens at 100% view to make sure every little pixel is properly behaving itself.
But having spent a lot of time, effort, and (with octogenarian travel insurance rates in mind)
Yes, I'm hitting higher insurance at age 78, and also the hassles of car hire with one company insisting on doctor's certificates etc to prove that I'm still alive and upright. They need to catch up with what is happening - from retirement to age 89 is simply senior citizen and 90 and up we could be classed as "old".
....money, getting to some remote spot, I want to make sure that the opportunity of a five minute photo stop can be savoured again in the comfort of home. As versatile a range of capabilities as possible is necessary to maximise my chances of getting a suitable shot, so I consider at least a pair of small cameras with complementary capabilities is necessary - the pair also going some way to insuring against mechanical failure of a single camera. Fixed lens cameras reduce the range of capabilities, but also reduce the cost of risk of loss by accidental damage or theft, and complexity of operation. And my choices have to fit conveniently with all my necessary daily kit in a shoulder bag - I don't like belt bags.
Last trip was with the compact Sony in a small belt pouch, and an easy to carry small snoot bag over the shoulder cross body strap so it doesn't slip off accidentally. No problems at all to manage, but the idea of two small cameras in two small belt pouches does appeal more, The bigger belly belt bag was used by me in film days and definitely don't like it, the little belt pouches work better or even some custom made dual small camera pouch would work, as long as it is not bulky and doesn't snag on furniture as i walk past.
It was only about a decade ago that it started to become easier to find fixed lens cameras with wide angled zoom lenses, as manufacturers realised that the distortions of low cost lenses could be ameliorated by in-camera digital processing, and I was glad to use them for many cramped situations. Conversely, more recently, small, fixed lens ‘Action’ cameras with very wide ‘fisheye’ lenses have become acceptable, despite considerable distortion. But I find them unsuited to my needs. They seem to me better suited to video in action situations which I am unlikely to encounter. And I feel video takes up too much time - capturing and in post - though I am willing to use time lapse series to document routes taken in strange cities, and the ZR Casios seem to have a more suitable range of timing for that.
I bought one of the Sony tiny action cameras years back mainly for the reason of mucking about with approx 1:24 scale model trains. Good for easy trackside shots, small enough to ride on cars in the train, provides nice and interesting video.
Although sweep panoramas
Sweeps are really chancy, some cameras have real problems to allow it to happen reliably, plus also some strange stitching errors happen at times. I avoid using them now and way prefer some very wide angle lens, or shots stitched with something like the free Microsoft ICE.
and better stitching apps have minimised the need for wide angle lenses in many outdoor situations, cramped situations and dim lighting require fast, wide lenses, or, at least for still subjects, relatively long exposures or means to take and merge numerous bursts. Previously, I used the LX3 with accessory 18mm lens in that role, later the LX7 and accessory. But despite its superior IQ, I felt the bulk, weight, additional charging needs, and difference in menu weighed more heavily against the LX7 than the ZR5100’s slightly narrower coverage, and reliance on burst merging rather than outright optical speed.
My old LX3 still gets a few shots, its raw files plus DxO Elite and Prime noise reduction turned it into a new camera.
I still have my first 35mm camera, bought in 1956. Though unused for years, it still works.
In my case first camera was a Minolta SR1 SLR in 1960 and still have it but the oil and grease has dried up and it has ceased to function now.
In the last two decades I’ve bought about two dozen digicams. Few that were kept still work.
Yes, plenty of digital camera here too from 2002 onwards and they all still work fine when an occasional recharge and play happens. An old favourite is the Ricoh R3 at 5MP and it still provides darn good results, same battery as the Panasonic LX3 which is handy.
And as technology continues to rapidly change, I’m averse to rushing madly into more costly ‘better’ models, although the rate of improvement in phone cameras suggests that one may supplant the ZR5100 in the next few years, if some equivalent to an EVF can be arranged, to overcome screen glare, and permit eye level framing; leaving me needing only a replacement for the ZR800 when it finally succumbs.
One day they may invent a colour screen that works well in bright light, a bit like the Kindle screens that seem to behave OK for people reading outdoors.

The Sony RX100M6 was for my wife to get better low light shots than the Casios and that has worked, but it is a hugely expensive camera and will need to keep working for many years to pay its way. It does have a useful EVF but we both prefer to use the screen only.

As for M4/3 my 2013 vintage Olympus E-P5 does all that I need so it will suit me for years yet if I look after it (I have a pair so can even out the wear on them by swapping occasionally), and the electronic goods gods are kept happy.

Currently though I seem to have less enthusiasm for cameras and fiddling with images. I have yet to properly sift and sort and organise the recent Ireland+England trip, we have yet to see clearly exactly what we took. Catching up on gardens and many unfinished tasks has kept me fully occupied since returning.

Regards..... Guy
 
[Guy] ....Maybe catch the train+tram to Newcastle for the day as I haven't been there for some time now. :-)
Guy, if so I hope you enjoy having to break the trip to change to what is effectively Victorian technology, achieved at the cost of millions of taxpayers' money, retailers' bankruptcies, and delays to existing roadusers and city bound commuters or beachbound residents from the Hunter's further communities. :-(
Ha! The exact same story as is happening in Sydney city. The re-introduction of trams (now fashionably called "light rail") is running years late, way way over budget and has caused business losses and closures and has generally p*ssed off the whole population. The same as Newcastle but on a way bigger scale of disaster.
Probably your British past as on the continent if they want a tram line they just build it but the British way is talk about things endlessly in endless committees in order to get things absolutely perfect without even the remote possibly of anything going wrong before they start and even then it always goes wildly over budget if it ever gets off the ground.
Glory be, they may actually be running soon (whatever "soon" means we have yet to find out).

The weird bit is that they are going to run double sets in the city at 67m long, that will cause more traffic jams as the length means more chance of blocked intersections.

The tram network they had worked quite well until the pressure of commercial interest (and most likely bribes paid to politicians) saw it all ripped out in the late 50's to early 60's and smelly diesel buses replace them in the canyons of the city and beyond.

The only thing that makes sense in Sydney is the building of the Metro lines, so new lines and stations and most tidily underground.
[Guy] Thanks for the example shots, Cyril, and it helps make me get off my backside and thinking about practical lightweight solutions for air travel without getting caught up in the pixel peeping hysteria that seems to envelop the M4/3 forum at least.
Preparing for travelling, trying to balance my enthusiasms, punctilious inclinations, and responsibilities, by wrestling between preparing for every eventuality or just winging it, I keep in mind G.K.Chesterton’s aphorism “If a job’s worth doing, it’s worth doing badly”. So if a picture looks okay on my 5k screen, it’s more than adequate for the needs of my personal ideosyncracies.
Yes, many in the camera forums totally ignore the watchability test and insist on noses against screens at 100% view to make sure every little pixel is properly behaving itself.
But having spent a lot of time, effort, and (with octogenarian travel insurance rates in mind)
Yes, I'm hitting higher insurance at age 78, and also the hassles of car hire with one company insisting on doctor's certificates etc to prove that I'm still alive and upright. They need to catch up with what is happening - from retirement to age 89 is simply senior citizen and 90 and up we could be classed as "old".
....money, getting to some remote spot, I want to make sure that the opportunity of a five minute photo stop can be savoured again in the comfort of home. As versatile a range of capabilities as possible is necessary to maximise my chances of getting a suitable shot, so I consider at least a pair of small cameras with complementary capabilities is necessary - the pair also going some way to insuring against mechanical failure of a single camera. Fixed lens cameras reduce the range of capabilities, but also reduce the cost of risk of loss by accidental damage or theft, and complexity of operation. And my choices have to fit conveniently with all my necessary daily kit in a shoulder bag - I don't like belt bags.
Last trip was with the compact Sony in a small belt pouch, and an easy to carry small snoot bag over the shoulder cross body strap so it doesn't slip off accidentally. No problems at all to manage, but the idea of two small cameras in two small belt pouches does appeal more, The bigger belly belt bag was used by me in film days and definitely don't like it, the little belt pouches work better or even some custom made dual small camera pouch would work, as long as it is not bulky and doesn't snag on furniture as i walk past.
It was only about a decade ago that it started to become easier to find fixed lens cameras with wide angled zoom lenses, as manufacturers realised that the distortions of low cost lenses could be ameliorated by in-camera digital processing, and I was glad to use them for many cramped situations. Conversely, more recently, small, fixed lens ‘Action’ cameras with very wide ‘fisheye’ lenses have become acceptable, despite considerable distortion. But I find them unsuited to my needs. They seem to me better suited to video in action situations which I am unlikely to encounter. And I feel video takes up too much time - capturing and in post - though I am willing to use time lapse series to document routes taken in strange cities, and the ZR Casios seem to have a more suitable range of timing for that.
I bought one of the Sony tiny action cameras years back mainly for the reason of mucking about with approx 1:24 scale model trains. Good for easy trackside shots, small enough to ride on cars in the train, provides nice and interesting video.
Although sweep panoramas
Sweeps are really chancy, some cameras have real problems to allow it to happen reliably, plus also some strange stitching errors happen at times. I avoid using them now and way prefer some very wide angle lens, or shots stitched with something like the free Microsoft ICE.
and better stitching apps have minimised the need for wide angle lenses in many outdoor situations, cramped situations and dim lighting require fast, wide lenses, or, at least for still subjects, relatively long exposures or means to take and merge numerous bursts. Previously, I used the LX3 with accessory 18mm lens in that role, later the LX7 and accessory. But despite its superior IQ, I felt the bulk, weight, additional charging needs, and difference in menu weighed more heavily against the LX7 than the ZR5100’s slightly narrower coverage, and reliance on burst merging rather than outright optical speed.
My old LX3 still gets a few shots, its raw files plus DxO Elite and Prime noise reduction turned it into a new camera.
I still have my first 35mm camera, bought in 1956. Though unused for years, it still works.
In my case first camera was a Minolta SR1 SLR in 1960 and still have it but the oil and grease has dried up and it has ceased to function now.
In the last two decades I’ve bought about two dozen digicams. Few that were kept still work.
Yes, plenty of digital camera here too from 2002 onwards and they all still work fine when an occasional recharge and play happens. An old favourite is the Ricoh R3 at 5MP and it still provides darn good results, same battery as the Panasonic LX3 which is handy.
And as technology continues to rapidly change, I’m averse to rushing madly into more costly ‘better’ models, although the rate of improvement in phone cameras suggests that one may supplant the ZR5100 in the next few years, if some equivalent to an EVF can be arranged, to overcome screen glare, and permit eye level framing; leaving me needing only a replacement for the ZR800 when it finally succumbs.
One day they may invent a colour screen that works well in bright light, a bit like the Kindle screens that seem to behave OK for people reading outdoors.

The Sony RX100M6 was for my wife to get better low light shots than the Casios and that has worked, but it is a hugely expensive camera and will need to keep working for many years to pay its way. It does have a useful EVF but we both prefer to use the screen only.

As for M4/3 my 2013 vintage Olympus E-P5 does all that I need so it will suit me for years yet if I look after it (I have a pair so can even out the wear on them by swapping occasionally), and the electronic goods gods are kept happy.

Currently though I seem to have less enthusiasm for cameras and fiddling with images. I have yet to properly sift and sort and organise the recent Ireland+England trip, we have yet to see clearly exactly what we took. Catching up on gardens and many unfinished tasks has kept me fully occupied since returning.

Regards..... Guy
 
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Probably your British past as on the continent if they want a tram line they just build it but the British way is talk about things endlessly in endless committees in order to get things absolutely perfect without even the remote possibly of anything going wrong before they start and even then it always goes wildly over budget if it ever gets off the ground.
Yup, Brexit is a prime example and it doesn't even build anything.

As a side note to that, yesterday I was at my old Primary School reunion, (66 years later) and one member did work in the past mostly it seems advising or working with govts both in Australia and in England.

He pointed to the Aussie ABC TV satirical comedy show "Utopia" https://www.abc.net.au/tv/programs/utopia/ where it shows govt types bungling their way through decisions that affect the nation.

He told me that program barely scratches the surface of what really goes on, the reality is far worse and far more stupid in govt departments behind the scenes.

Regards.... Guy
 
Not if they want to make any money. All gone I am afraid. The camera phone just showed how small the market was for people who thought like this and had any interest in the process of making pictures and controlling things themselves.

Setting aperture, shutter speed and ISO and seeing the relation between them plus focus length and depth of field is just going to blow the attention span and mind data set of your average modern dude if chemicals have not already done that.
 
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Not if they want to make any money. All gone I am afraid. The camera phone just showed how small the market was for people who thought like this and had any interest in the process of making pictures and controlling things themselves.
1" compacts are still selling well, I just hope one day some one can make a 1" sensor camera that's around 21mm or wider, 18mm will be perfect. With selfie flip screen.
Setting aperture, shutter speed and ISO and seeing the relation between them plus focus length and depth of field.
The ZR5100 is still mostly auto. The thing I like about it are not these manual controls, but the face detect and beautification, as well as the UWA lens. If either Sony, Panny or Cannon were to make a 1" compact with say, a 18-55mm or 21-150mm, that would be my next camera.
 
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Not if they want to make any money. All gone I am afraid. The camera phone just showed how small the market was for people who thought like this and had any interest in the process of making pictures and controlling things themselves.
1" compacts are still selling well, I just hope one day some one can make a 1" sensor camera that's around 21mm or wider, 18mm will be perfect. With selfie flip screen.
Setting aperture, shutter speed and ISO and seeing the relation between them plus focus length and depth of field.
The ZR5100 is still mostly auto. The thing I like about it are not these manual controls, but the face detect and beautification, as well as the UWA lens. If either Sony, Panny or Cannon were to make a 1" compact with say, a 18-55mm or 21-150mm, that would be my next camera.
My ZR5100 has pretty chronic purple fringing at 19mm. This sort of wide angle in a folding zoom is unlikely for the enthusiast market. The phones have a fixed focal length lens which makes it a lot easier and I do not notice these problems with the ultra wide phone lenses.

Please do not take this as my hating the ZR5100 but I am just realistic about what my cameras can and cannot do.
 
Not if they want to make any money. All gone I am afraid. The camera phone just showed how small the market was for people who thought like this and had any interest in the process of making pictures and controlling things themselves.
1" compacts are still selling well, I just hope one day some one can make a 1" sensor camera that's around 21mm or wider, 18mm will be perfect. With selfie flip screen.
Setting aperture, shutter speed and ISO and seeing the relation between them plus focus length and depth of field.
The ZR5100 is still mostly auto. The thing I like about it are not these manual controls, but the face detect and beautification, as well as the UWA lens. If either Sony, Panny or Cannon were to make a 1" compact with say, a 18-55mm or 21-150mm, that would be my next camera.
My ZR5100 has pretty chronic purple fringing at 19mm.
The purple fringing is primarily on edges with a high contrast, such as tree branches against the light sky. Much of that effect can be ameliorated with Affinity Photo, and I presume, with other post processing software.
This sort of wide angle in a folding zoom is unlikely for the enthusiast market. The phones have a fixed focal length lens which makes it a lot easier and I do not notice these problems with the ultra wide phone lenses.

Please do not take this as my hating the ZR5100 but I am just realistic about what my cameras can and cannot do.
The smarter phone cameras, with several lenses at different fixed focal lengths, combined with digital zoom to double or halve the focal lengths over 13 to 104 mm equivalent suggests that another couple of lenses could achieve 13 to 416mm. Combined with the software to completely or partially eliminate the background, to provide time exposures of still subjects in very dim situations, and to carry out considerable post processing, there would appear to be a possibility of very pocketable cameras, without the smartphone capabilities, vying with action cameras at fairly reasonable prices, rather as Apple produced the iPod Touch: an 'iPhone without the phone'.
 
The smarter phone cameras, with several lenses at different fixed focal lengths, combined with digital zoom to double or halve the focal lengths over 13 to 104 mm equivalent suggests that another couple of lenses could achieve 13 to 416mm. Combined with the software to completely or partially eliminate the background, to provide time exposures of still subjects in very dim situations, and to carry out considerable post processing, there would appear to be a possibility of very pocketable cameras, without the smartphone capabilities, vying with action cameras at fairly reasonable prices, rather as Apple produced the iPod Touch: an 'iPhone without the phone'.
 
Cyril Catt wrote: The smarter phone cameras, with several lenses at different fixed focal lengths, combined with digital zoom to double or halve the focal lengths over 13 to 104 mm equivalent suggests that another couple of lenses could achieve 13 to 416mm. Combined with the software to completely or partially eliminate the background, to provide time exposures of still subjects in very dim situations, and to carry out considerable post processing, there would appear to be a possibility of very pocketable cameras, without the smartphone capabilities, vying with action cameras at fairly reasonable prices, rather as Apple produced the iPod Touch: an 'iPhone without the phone'.
Well if they make a DC with 3 1" sensor at 18mm, 35mm and 50mm respectively, that would be interesting. And also, they will need a Flip Screen. Next is one with 50mm, 90mm and 150mm, with EVF.
Unfortunately, I suspect those internal specifications will dictate a bulkier camera than most smart phones employ.
 
The smarter phone cameras, with several lenses at different fixed focal lengths, combined with digital zoom to double or halve the focal lengths over 13 to 104 mm equivalent suggests that another couple of lenses could achieve 13 to 416mm. Combined with the software to completely or partially eliminate the background, to provide time exposures of still subjects in very dim situations, and to carry out considerable post processing, there would appear to be a possibility of very pocketable cameras, without the smartphone capabilities, vying with action cameras at fairly reasonable prices, rather as Apple produced the iPod Touch: an 'iPhone without the phone'.
Well if they make a DC [I take that to mean Digital Camera.... Guy] with 3 [!!!] 1" sensor at 18mm, 35mm and 50mm respectively, that would be interesting. [and bleeding huge, bigger than any FF camera] And also, they will need a Flip Screen. Next is one with 50mm, 90mm and 150mm, with EVF. [the mind boggles at how big that would be].
I solved that little problem by spending up big and getting the Sony RX100M6 (current incarnation is the M7 model, aggressively more pricey with a few more features).

Excellent zoom lens going from 24mm to 200mm equivalent. Great results in good light, also handles low light pretty well with a few stacking and computational tricks.

It has only one 1" 20MP sensor and tilt up/down screen, also a pop-up EVF when needed. Quite amazing AF ability sneaked into it from the larger Sony system cameras.

So a truly useful small camera is there already if you want to spend up big.

The multi headed 1" demon would be a ridiculous size and would never enter any manufacturer's mind to even attempt it.

Regards..... Guy
 
I solved that little problem by spending up big and getting the Sony RX100M6 (current incarnation is the M7 model, aggressively more pricey with a few more features).
I am waiting for a 18mm version of RX100.
 

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