Olympus MF and clutch rings

[Michael Meissner]

I hardly ever use manual focus, but I have my main Olympus cameras (E-m1 mark I, E-m10 mark II) set up so that when I manually focus, I turn on the enlargement and focus peaking options. While my 12-40mm f/2.8 lens has a focus clutch ring, I rarely use it.

I just bought a used 12mm f/2.0 lens from keh.com and I was making sure it was working (yep). So after doing the auto focus tests, I moved the clutch ring to try manually focusing. I was surprised that when I used the clutch ring, it did not magnify the image nor turn on focus peaking.

If instead I either use the super control panel to set the mode to MF or SF+MF, it does what I expected and enlarge the image and turn on focus peaking. Since I rarely use it, the inconsistency isn't that important to me, but it did seem weird that the MF options aren't automatically enabled when the clutch ring is used.

 

[Humansvillian]

I hardly ever use manual focus, but I have my main Olympus cameras (E-m1 mark I, E-m10 mark II) set up so that when I manually focus, I turn on the enlargement and focus peaking options. While my 12-40mm f/2.8 lens has a focus clutch ring, I rarely use it.

I just bought a used 12mm f/2.0 lens from keh.com and I was making sure it was working (yep). So after doing the auto focus tests, I moved the clutch ring to try manually focusing. I was surprised that when I used the clutch ring, it did not magnify the image nor turn on focus peaking.

If instead I either use the super control panel to set the mode to MF or SF+MF, it does what I expected and enlarge the image and turn on focus peaking. Since I rarely use it, the inconsistency isn't that important to me, but it did seem weird that the MF options aren't automatically enabled when the clutch ring is used.

The Olympus 12mm f1.8 and 17mm f1.8 primes came out before focus peaking.

Olympus began with focus peaking starting on the P5.

The 12mm and 17mm were premium primes when they were released, and the idea was the street shooter would use "zone focus" on his Pen Light or Pen Micro Four Thirds camera to prowl the hard streets of the city, and capture candid photos of street life with saxophone players on street corners,,,,or something like that. The f stop guides on those two lenses are mainly for show.

One way to use focus peaking on the early 12mm and 17mm lenses is to, as you've discovered, select manual or AF plus Manual in the SCP.

The way I do it for my 17mm f1.8 is to go to the gear menu, and assign focus peaking (you can alternatively select magnify) to the record button.

This keeps you from taking movies by accident, and the focus peaking still works when you press the record button.

Or, use it like it was intended.

 

[Doug Janis]

I hardly ever use manual focus, but I have my main Olympus cameras (E-m1 mark I, E-m10 mark II) set up so that when I manually focus, I turn on the enlargement and focus peaking options. While my 12-40mm f/2.8 lens has a focus clutch ring, I rarely use it.

I just bought a used 12mm f/2.0 lens from keh.com and I was making sure it was working (yep). So after doing the auto focus tests, I moved the clutch ring to try manually focusing. I was surprised that when I used the clutch ring, it did not magnify the image nor turn on focus peaking.

If instead I either use the super control panel to set the mode to MF or SF+MF, it does what I expected and enlarge the image and turn on focus peaking. Since I rarely use it, the inconsistency isn't that important to me, but it did seem weird that the MF options aren't automatically enabled when the clutch ring is used.

Unfortunately the clutch doesn't not activate the camera body manual focus settings.

The design of the 12/2 and 17/1.8 lenses precluded that possibility early on and there is no lens firmware capacity to do what you want. They'd have to re-wire the lenses to make this happen, so a redesign.

 

[Englishman in France]

Yes, Olympus deliberately handicap their bodies on these two lenses, probably because they are premium lenses not pro. Panasonic don't, so they will automatically enable manual focus assist on a Panasonic camera. Sometimes I think Olympus have too many customers.

 

[Englishman in France]

No, it is deliberate on Olympus behalf. They could do it if they wanted.

I would be interested in knowing whether they implemented this feature on the pro lenses.

 

[Humansvillian]

Yes, Olympus deliberately handicap their bodies on these two lenses, probably because they are premium lenses not pro. Panasonic don't, so they will automatically enable manual focus assist on a Panasonic camera. Sometimes I think Olympus have too many customers.

I don't agree with everything Olympus does, but in this case I believe it's because the lenses predate the focus peaking feature being added to the cameras. 12 megapixels was the sensor used, and the cameras were P1, P2, P3, and PL 1 PL2 and PL3, and the almost forgotten now, PM1.

On the day these lenses were first sold, the PL1 had a function button that was assigned a magnify feature. Slip the clutch, hit the magnify button, and you could easily focus the manual feature of the lens.

But those were the days of "street shooters" wrapping up PL1 cameras in black tape and stalking the streets taking pictures of people. The real idea behind the clutch was to do "zone focus", where you'd set your f stop and then focus the lens for a certain depth of field, just like Wee Gee did on his Speed Graphic.

--
Humansville is a town in the Missouri Ozarks

 

[Humansvillian]

No, it is deliberate on Olympus behalf. They could do it if they wanted.

I would be interested in knowing whether they implemented this feature on the pro lenses.

My 12-40 Pro can use both magnify and focus peaking when the clutch is engaged.

And while I'm not a lens designer, I'd reckon the early 12mm and 17mm premium fast primes would need completely rewired inside to make the right contact with the camera body to implement the feature.

If they could, Olympus would update all their cameras by software to use the feature.

That's one thing Olympus is very good about.

 

[M_digicapt]

Yes, Olympus deliberately handicap their bodies on these two lenses, probably because they are premium lenses not pro. Panasonic don't, so they will automatically enable manual focus assist on a Panasonic camera. Sometimes I think Olympus have too many customers.

I don't agree with everything Olympus does, but in this case I believe it's because the lenses predate the focus peaking feature being added to the cameras. 12 megapixels was the sensor used, and the cameras were P1, P2, P3, and PL 1 PL2 and PL3, and the almost forgotten now, PM1.

On the day these lenses were first sold, the PL1 had a function button that was assigned a magnify feature. Slip the clutch, hit the magnify button, and you could easily focus the manual feature of the lens.

But those were the days of "street shooters" wrapping up PL1 cameras in black tape and stalking the streets taking pictures of people. The real idea behind the clutch was to do "zone focus", where you'd set your f stop and then focus the lens for a certain depth of field, just like Wee Gee did on his Speed Graphic.

I have the magnify function set on the fn2 button and peaking on the record button, it works very well for me; I mainly use manual lenses. In fact, was one of the main reasons I bought another olympus and didn't switch brands.

 

[Englishman in France]

Sad to say that this is just down to Olympus policy for those 2 lenses and absolutely not for technical reasons. Both lenses are focus by wire, so the camera body knows when it is in manual focus or automatic. Panasonic bodies automatically switch to manual focus aids when the manual focus clutch is activated on these two lenses, again showing there is no technical reason for not doing this. Olympus have demonstrated that they can implement the same feature on the 12-40mm lens, so they have the know-how.

No, this is a deliberate omission from Olympus due to marketing. They have also chosen not to implement the aperture ring feature on panasonic lenses....another marketing decision that is non-technical.

Don't ask me why. It seems crazy to me, but Olympus are very stubborn on some things.

 

[Humansvillian]

Sad to say that this is just down to Olympus policy for those 2 lenses and absolutely not for technical reasons. Both lenses are focus by wire, so the camera body knows when it is in manual focus or automatic. Panasonic bodies automatically switch to manual focus aids when the manual focus clutch is activated on these two lenses, again showing there is no technical reason for not doing this. Olympus have demonstrated that they can implement the same feature on the 12-40mm lens, so they have the know-how.

No, this is a deliberate omission from Olympus due to marketing. They have also chosen not to implement the aperture ring feature on panasonic lenses....another marketing decision that is non-technical.

Don't ask me why. It seems crazy to me, but Olympus are very stubborn on some things.

Olympus could redo the lens, and make a 12mm and 17mm R series. They have the feature now on the 12-40 Pro. If Oly could have included the peaking and magnify feature in a firmware update, it likely would have happened already, because my 17mm has had several updates.

Redoing the internals of any lens to add another feature costs money in a lot of ways. There’s the engineering, replacing old parts with new ones, printing new nomenclature on the lens, and redoing the assembly tooling and procedures.

Once that cost was met, then every camera dealer with old versions in stock isn’t happy, because their stock instantly becomes outdated.

And my excellent little Panasonic 20mm f1.7 pancake was a bargain because it’s the first and not the second model. Redoing a lens depreciates every existing lens the company has sold.

Oly is good about using new firmware to update old hardware. They restored the remote flash feature in the OMD M10 III. My P5 received an electronic first curtain zero second anti shock update. My M5 II got a focus stacking feature by firmware update. Oly’s very old 12 mp camera models occasionally get updates to use new lenses.

But changing the internals of a lens is a different proposition.

It’s fear and not greed, that restrains that behavior.,

--
Humansville is a town in the Missouri Ozarks

 

[Skeeterbytes]

IIRC the 12/2 and 17/1.8 focus in discrete steps when the MF clutch is engaged, and more recent models with the feature focus smoothly across the range. I suspect this precludes focus peaking with the older models.

Cheers,

Rick

 

[Orangorill]

Sad to say that this is just down to Olympus policy for those 2 lenses and absolutely not for technical reasons. Both lenses are focus by wire, so the camera body knows when it is in manual focus or automatic. Panasonic bodies automatically switch to manual focus aids when the manual focus clutch is activated on these two lenses, again showing there is no technical reason for not doing this. Olympus have demonstrated that they can implement the same feature on the 12-40mm lens, so they have the know-how.

No, this is a deliberate omission from Olympus due to marketing. They have also chosen not to implement the aperture ring feature on panasonic lenses....another marketing decision that is non-technical.

Don't ask me why. It seems crazy to me, but Olympus are very stubborn on some things.

Olympus could redo the lens, and make a 12mm and 17mm R series. They have the feature now on the 12-40 Pro. If Oly could have included the peaking and magnify feature in a firmware update, it likely would have happened already, because my 17mm has had several updates.

Redoing the internals of any lens to add another feature costs money in a lot of ways. There’s the engineering, replacing old parts with new ones, printing new nomenclature on the lens, and redoing the assembly tooling and procedures.

Once that cost was met, then every camera dealer with old versions in stock isn’t happy, because their stock instantly becomes outdated.

And my excellent little Panasonic 20mm f1.7 pancake was a bargain because it’s the first and not the second model. Redoing a lens depreciates every existing lens the company has sold.

Oly is good about using new firmware to update old hardware. They restored the remote flash feature in the OMD M10 III. My P5 received an electronic first curtain zero second anti shock update. My M5 II got a focus stacking feature by firmware update. Oly’s very old 12 mp camera models occasionally get updates to use new lenses.

But changing the internals of a lens is a different proposition.

It’s fear and not greed, that restrains that behavior.,

I think you're misunderstanding something here. This is my main lens on my Panasonic cameras (GX80 and GM1), where it will clutch and focus peak all day long, no rewiring needed. On my stepdad's Pen F, not so much. Without having tried all that many, I'm willing to bet pulling the clutch back will enable peaking on ALL Panasonic bodies, and NO Olympus bodies. If there is a technical reason for this I'd love to know what it is.

 

[ToxicTabasco]

Great topic, and I'm glad you bring it up. This got me thinking on how I focus. From the perspective of someone who learned photo on a manual slr prime lens film shooter. And favors the AF speed and accuracy over AF tracking, I had to take a deep look into my past photo adventures and make analysis of my evolution in photography.

In the past 6 years I've set all my DSLRs and mirrorles to Manual focus with AF using the back button. I don't use the manual focus a lot. But when I need it, its there ready to go. And from time to time in difficult focusing conditions, I use it with the focus peaking to nail focus when I can't even see the details on that small live view. Also, the features like focus peaking and punch in or zoom in are convenient when shooting and make focus much easier. Reflecting on how I focus, I use manual about 20% of my photography, with AF single point which is about 90% of my photography. And AFC about 10% of the time. Right now all my mirrorless lenses are focus by wire Panasonic lenses.

I've used Tokina zooms with clutch rings on the DSLRs, as well as a 40-150 Pro on a Lumix body. I really like the Oly distance scale and clutch ring for photo. They are very precise, and the lens is very accurate even adapted to Lumix body. Much better than some of my Nikon DSLR lenses. One in particular the Nikon 20mm f/1.8 has a sloppy short throw manual focus ring that drives me nuts when shooting the milky way. Also, I had the cheap 35 and 50 Nikon primes, and they too were a little sloppy with the electronic focus by wire.

For most people manual focus rings or manual focus is not used much. And I understand that for the masses of new photographers "Sharpness" is all that matters in a lens. But for me, a lens must have much more than sharpness. Stuff like the manual focus ring, smooth zoom function, fast and accurate AF are all equally important IME. That along with optic quality of lens flare, how well distortion CA Coma are controlled, and aperture range with focus breathing all play a huge part in my selection of lenses.

Nevertheless, the future of camera focusing would be the most simplest efficient system and currently AFC and tracking AF is all the big marketing hype. As a result, it will social engineer the masses and how they think. Thus, manual focus and AF single area or one point will put down as inferior forms of focusing. Not because they are, but because someone says they are. Reality is, there are many ways to focus other than AFC, to get the shot. With today's AF systems are some of the fastest and most efficient in history. And you can bet they will continue to market it that way.

 

[Kiwisnap]

I disabled the clutch in my menus.

Good idea, in theory - but not in practice.

 

[mchnz]

No, it is deliberate on Olympus behalf. They could do it if they wanted.

I would be interested in knowing whether they implemented this feature on the pro lenses.

My 12-40 Pro can use both magnify and focus peaking when the clutch is engaged.

And while I'm not a lens designer, I'd reckon the early 12mm and 17mm premium fast primes would need completely rewired inside to make the right contact with the camera body to implement the feature.

If they could, Olympus would update all their cameras by software to use the feature.

That's one thing Olympus is very good about.

The weird aspect to this is that the camera clearly knows MF has been engaged on lenses such as the 17 f/1.8 because it immediately indicates the change in the viewfinder. Manually invoking peaking and magnification works properly with such lenses too. So despite some possible lack of some wiring, it would seem possible for the camera firmware to recognise that the 17 mm f/1.8, and other similar lenses, and note that they are a special-case when MF is engaged.

I suspect the complication might have something to do with differentiating the clutch-MF from the menu/SCP-MF. A I recall the two result in different behavior from the MF ring. But I haven't got my head fully around how these options/settings interact.

 

[NoTx]

Yes, Olympus deliberately handicap their bodies on these two lenses, probably because they are premium lenses not pro. Panasonic don't, so they will automatically enable manual focus assist on a Panasonic camera. Sometimes I think Olympus have too many customers.

This actually irritates the heck out of me. My guess is the 75/1.8 has this issue as well. Does anyone know?

 

[Skeeterbytes]

Yes, Olympus deliberately handicap their bodies on these two lenses, probably because they are premium lenses not pro. Panasonic don't, so they will automatically enable manual focus assist on a Panasonic camera. Sometimes I think Olympus have too many customers.

This actually irritates the heck out of me. My guess is the 75/1.8 has this issue as well. Does anyone know?

The 75 does not have an MF snap function. As to the above analysis, it presumes too much.

Cheers

Rick