G9 - will panasonic remove 30-minute-long video limit via firmware

[alffastar]

Hi, do you think there is a chance that panasonic will remove the 30-minute-long limit when shooting video via a firmware or it is not a legal option to do this for a camera model that was already in stores when this legal restriction became obsolete in the EU? Thanks

 

[Minstadave]

Hi, do you think there is a chance that panasonic will remove the 30-minute-long limit when shooting video via a firmware or it is not a legal option to do this for a camera model that was already in stores when this legal restriction became obsolete in the EU? Thanks

I doubt it, Panasonic isn't great when it comes to aftermarket firmware updates.

 

[leightparsons]

No, they almost certainly won't for two reasons: firstly, if a camera can record more than 30 minute clips then it is subject to higher EU import duty as movie cams carry a higher tariff than stills cameras; and secondly, they want a clear distinction between the 'video' GH lines and the 'stills' G line.

 

[leightparsons]

...also, for what it's worth I've had my G9 for a year or so now and I'm not aware of any bugs. Fantastic camera.

 

[Jon555]

No, they almost certainly won't for two reasons: firstly, if a camera can record more than 30 minute clips then it is subject to higher EU import duty as movie cams carry a higher tariff than stills cameras; and secondly, they want a clear distinction between the 'video' GH lines and the 'stills' G line.

The new EU-Japan trade deal removes that duty, but isn't back-dated...
Plus, alas, in the U.K. the trade deal disappears post Brexit...

 

[Michael Meissner]

Hi, do you think there is a chance that panasonic will remove the 30-minute-long limit when shooting video via a firmware or it is not a legal option to do this for a camera model that was already in stores when this legal restriction became obsolete in the EU? Thanks

I doubt it, because the G9 is more slated toward being the stills camera, and it might steal some market share from the GH5 or eventual GH6.

Now unlike middle tier cameras like the G85 that rarely get feature upgrades, the G9 has gotten two major firmware enhancements claimed to improve auto focusing. So it isn't that Panasonic doesn't improve things via firmware, but it rarer compared to other manufacturers (or even the GH5).

There is an unofficial method to remove the limit:

 

[JosephScha]

Actually, v1.2 firmware for G9 was a great update to autofocus staying locked on subject. If you mean, Panasonic doesn't come out with firmware updates as often as Microsoft updates Windows 10, you are certainly correct. But when they do come out with an update it's a good one!

 

[Alex Ethridge]

Hi, do you think there is a chance that panasonic will remove the 30-minute-long limit when shooting video via a firmware or it is not a legal option to do this for a camera model that was already in stores when this legal restriction became obsolete in the EU? Thanks

I doubt it, because the G9 is more slated toward being the stills camera, and it might steal some market share from the GH5 or eventual GH6.

Now unlike middle tier cameras like the G85 that rarely get feature upgrades, the G9 has gotten two major firmware enhancements claimed to improve auto focusing. So it isn't that Panasonic doesn't improve things via firmware, but it rarer compared to other manufacturers (or even the GH5).

There is an unofficial method to remove the limit:

I don't have the G9 to experiment with . Do you know if this implementation can be made permanent?

If so, do you know if there any disadvantages/downsides?

 

[Michael Meissner]

There is an unofficial method to remove the limit:

I don't have the G9 to experiment with . Do you know if this implementation can be made permanent?

If so, do you know if there any disadvantages/downsides?

No idea. I don't own a G9 either, but if I ever decided to upgrade my G85, I need unlimited video support. There is now the G95 of course, but other people posted this link in the G95 vs. G9 discussions to say the G9 can be tricked to enable unlimited video (at least unlimited 1080p video).

 

[C Sean]

Hi, do you think there is a chance that panasonic will remove the 30-minute-long limit when shooting video via a firmware or it is not a legal option to do this for a camera model that was already in stores when this legal restriction became obsolete in the EU? Thanks

It will cannibalise their GH5 sales.

Besides they been playing with the GH5 firmware and giving the camera more of the G9 features and I wouldn't be surprise if they did the same with the G9 with GH5's video. However this firmware wasn't released to the general public and there was an article on 43rumors about paid firmware playing a big part in the GH6 release to keep cost down.

The other factor the GH5's heat sink weigh about 100g more than the G9.

 

[ToxicTabasco]

Hi, do you think there is a chance that panasonic will remove the 30-minute-long limit when shooting video via a firmware or it is not a legal option to do this for a camera model that was already in stores when this legal restriction became obsolete in the EU? Thanks

I highly doubt they will lift the 30min record time for the 4K30p due to possible overheating issues, or self damaging by heat. The G9 was more a photo camera for hybird shooters who rarely ever need to shoot more than a couple of minutes in 4K. With full sensor 4K coverage of 20mp sensor the G9 would overheat like a Sony if shooting longer than 30min 4K30P. Thus, I think it's more about the design vs the legal.

Also, GH5 and GH5s were built with heat sinks and designed to handle the unlimited 4K 30p record times with the full 20mp sensor readout. G95 has unlimited recording at 4K but has a 4K crop and more rolling shutter which I suspect is part of the slower Venus engine, thus the G95 can go unlimited 4K without overheating.

 

[Pov2]

No, they almost certainly won't for two reasons: firstly, if a camera can record more than 30 minute clips then it is subject to higher EU import duty as movie cams carry a higher tariff than stills cameras; and secondly, they want a clear distinction between the 'video' GH lines and the 'stills' G line.

If it was/is an EU tariff thing why do these cameras sold everywhere else still have this limit?

How high was/is this tariff? Maybe it's worth to pay it? Right now the G9 is US $1200, the GH5 is $1500. If the G9 was $1300 without the 29:59 limit I would still buy it.

 

[Pov2]

Hi, do you think there is a chance that panasonic will remove the 30-minute-long limit when shooting video via a firmware or it is not a legal option to do this for a camera model that was already in stores when this legal restriction became obsolete in the EU? Thanks

I highly doubt they will lift the 30min record time for the 4K30p due to possible overheating issues, or self damaging by heat. The G9 was more a photo camera for hybird shooters who rarely ever need to shoot more than a couple of minutes in 4K. With full sensor 4K coverage of 20mp sensor the G9 would overheat like a Sony if shooting longer than 30min 4K30P. Thus, I think it's more about the design vs the legal.

Also, GH5 and GH5s were built with heat sinks and designed to handle the unlimited 4K 30p record times with the full 20mp sensor readout. G95 has unlimited recording at 4K but has a 4K crop and more rolling shutter which I suspect is part of the slower Venus engine, thus the G95 can go unlimited 4K without overheating.

The author of the video linked above responded to a question about overheating: "I recently filmed two sections of the concert for 50 minutes in 4K60p. Everything was recorded normally. By the way, I use a battery grip, I don’t know if it helps to get rid of overheating or not." Another comment there: "I filmed many 4K60 videos longer than 10 minutes and I recently filmed a 38 minute video (handheld, using auto focus and IBIS a lot etc) and I have thus far no problems to report."

And the limit for 4K60p is 10 min.

Also in the comments they say that in cameras sold in Europe the 29:59 limit is "hardwired" and cannot be removed but with that trick the 10 min 4K60p limit becomes 29:59.

 

[Pov2]

Hi, do you think there is a chance that panasonic will remove the 30-minute-long limit when shooting video via a firmware or it is not a legal option to do this for a camera model that was already in stores when this legal restriction became obsolete in the EU? Thanks

I doubt it, because the G9 is more slated toward being the stills camera, and it might steal some market share from the GH5 or eventual GH6.

Now unlike middle tier cameras like the G85 that rarely get feature upgrades, the G9 has gotten two major firmware enhancements claimed to improve auto focusing. So it isn't that Panasonic doesn't improve things via firmware, but it rarer compared to other manufacturers (or even the GH5).

There is an unofficial method to remove the limit:

I don't have the G9 to experiment with . Do you know if this implementation can be made permanent?

If so, do you know if there any disadvantages/downsides?

If you read the comments to the video the implementation is permanent as long as the camera stays in permanent service mode. It can be reverted to normal state by doing factory reset erasing custom settings.

The only disadvantage - the camera won't be recognized by a PC if connected through USB, but who needs it.

 

[Alex Ethridge]

Hi, do you think there is a chance that panasonic will remove the 30-minute-long limit when shooting video via a firmware or it is not a legal option to do this for a camera model that was already in stores when this legal restriction became obsolete in the EU? Thanks

I doubt it, because the G9 is more slated toward being the stills camera, and it might steal some market share from the GH5 or eventual GH6.

Now unlike middle tier cameras like the G85 that rarely get feature upgrades, the G9 has gotten two major firmware enhancements claimed to improve auto focusing. So it isn't that Panasonic doesn't improve things via firmware, but it rarer compared to other manufacturers (or even the GH5).

There is an unofficial method to remove the limit:

I don't have the G9 to experiment with . Do you know if this implementation can be made permanent?

If so, do you know if there any disadvantages/downsides?

If you read the comments to the video the implementation is permanent as long as the camera stays in permanent service mode. It can be reverted to normal state by doing factory reset erasing custom settings.

The only disadvantage - the camera won't be recognized by a PC if connected through USB, but who needs it.

Thanks for that.

 

[whumber]

Hi, do you think there is a chance that panasonic will remove the 30-minute-long limit when shooting video via a firmware or it is not a legal option to do this for a camera model that was already in stores when this legal restriction became obsolete in the EU? Thanks

I highly doubt they will lift the 30min record time for the 4K30p due to possible overheating issues, or self damaging by heat. The G9 was more a photo camera for hybird shooters who rarely ever need to shoot more than a couple of minutes in 4K. With full sensor 4K coverage of 20mp sensor the G9 would overheat like a Sony if shooting longer than 30min 4K30P. Thus, I think it's more about the design vs the legal.

Also, GH5 and GH5s were built with heat sinks and designed to handle the unlimited 4K 30p record times with the full 20mp sensor readout. G95 has unlimited recording at 4K but has a 4K crop and more rolling shutter which I suspect is part of the slower Venus engine, thus the G95 can go unlimited 4K without overheating.

The author of the video linked above responded to a question about overheating: "I recently filmed two sections of the concert for 50 minutes in 4K60p. Everything was recorded normally. By the way, I use a battery grip, I don’t know if it helps to get rid of overheating or not." Another comment there: "I filmed many 4K60 videos longer than 10 minutes and I recently filmed a 38 minute video (handheld, using auto focus and IBIS a lot etc) and I have thus far no problems to report."

And the limit for 4K60p is 10 min.

Also in the comments they say that in cameras sold in Europe the 29:59 limit is "hardwired" and cannot be removed but with that trick the 10 min 4K60p limit becomes 29:59.

I've been using the service mode on my G9 for a couple months now and can confirm that 4K60 runs longer than 10 minutes without any issue. It appears that the 10 minute limit is purely to differentiate the GH5/s from the G9 and not any kind of hardware limitation.

 

[tbcass]

I've been using cameras with the 30 minute limit for years. I video primarily plays, concerts, recitals, etc, many which exceed the 30 minute limit by a lot. All I do is wait for a pause in the action before the 30 minute limit, stop and restart the video and do this as many times as is necessary. Usually it's well before the limit as scenes change or a different group takes the stage because there is a lot of useless down time I don't wish to record. I then stitch the videos together with a video editor. I've been doing this for about 10 years and have never, repeat never, found the 30 minute limit a limitation.

The only time I can see it as a problem is if you set the camera up and leave it unattended which I never do. I would be interested in hearing from any of you for whom the 30 minute limit is a real problem and what the circumstances are.

--
Tom

 

[Michael Meissner]

I've been using cameras with the 30 minute limit for years. I video primarily plays, concerts, recitals, etc, many which exceed the 30 minute limit by a lot. All I do is wait for a pause in the action before the 30 minute limit, stop and restart the video and do this as many times as is necessary. Usually it's well before the limit as scenes change or a different group takes the stage because there is a lot of useless down time I don't wish to record. I then stitch the videos together with a video editor. I've been doing this for about 10 years and have never, repeat never, found the 30 minute limit a limitation.

The only time I can see it as a problem is if you set the camera up and leave it unattended which I never do. I would be interested in hearing from any of you for whom the 30 minute limit is a real problem and what the circumstances are.

I'm one of the people that has found I need the extra limit. Lets see in the last two years, I have had the following times when I was glad neither the G85 nor the LX10 had limits:

1) I did the video of my niece's wedding since neither she nor her parents could afford professional photographers (her aunt did the stills). The service went to 35 minutes. If the camera had stopped at 30 minutes, I might have missed one of the key element people want to be recorded before I could start the recording once again (exchange of rings, first kiss, being introduced as man/wife, walking down the aisle).

2) My mother-in-law and her best friend were giving a lecture on Ikebana (Japanese flower arranging) at the Boston Flower Show this year. This was a big deal for her, and she was glad I recorded it. The main talk went for 40 minutes.

3) I record the performers at a small local renaissance faire. Each of the performers are given a 30 minute block. I had several performers that used up their entire time slot with one long show, and in fact ran over by a few minutes (sometimes cutting into the time of the next performer). In addition to the individual performers, there is a finale done each day, and things can vary of how long things go on.

4) In the past, I used the E-P2 and E-5 cameras that had 7 minute limits (for 1080p) or 14 minute limits (for 720p), so I had to be more careful about the time. Even though I've heard and recorded most of these performers many times, every so often they would add an extra verse at the end of a song, and I would miss parts of it as I was turning off and then then turn back on the recording.

5) I record a show put on by a group of friends. The typical run time is 1.5 hours for the show. This group only does one public performance (that I record) of a particular show. Each show is different, and even if they do some of the same songs, like in #4, sometimes they add to the song. So, I have no idea where the cut points are. It is a lot easier to record it as one long take, and then cut it later into different scenes, than to try and guess where the scene ends. And I can eliminate dead time if there is any between acts by making a longer cut. In addition, there is usually an audience participation segment, where they pull people from the audience and that can be variable time.

6) Starting with my niece's wedding, and going on to the shows in #5, I now use my LX10 camera to record the same show on a tripod across the room. Generally, I never use the LX10 footage, but it is useful to have a backup just in case. After I did my niece's wedding where I just put it on the tripod, and controlled it via the phone app, I looked around and I found a wifi pan/tilt head that I can use to change the camera angle. Because the LX10 is a fixed lens camera, I can control the zoom from the phone app. Now my main focus is on the G85 that I control manually, but every so often, I look at the phone to set the focus point, zoom in/out, and use the pan/tilt head. I wouldn't be able to start/stop both cameras at the same time for scene cuts.

I really wish there were more electronic zoom lenses in the micro 4/3rds arsenal than the 4 rather slow and old lenses (Olympus 14-42mm EZ, Olympus 12-50mm EZ, Panasonic 14-42mm PZ, and Panasonic 45-175mm PZ), as it would allow me to use a micro 4/3rds camera remotely and control the zoom (though I'm not sure I would want to put gear costing $1-2k US on a remote tripod, but it would be nice to have the option). I've been meaning to check out cheap wireless follow focus support for the remote zoom.

I have heard that one of the other people wanting long limits, wanted to record an entire concert, and one of his/her concerns was that people were picking up on the dropped frames some cameras have when they split video into 4GB chunks. Now, I may not be able to detect a few missed frames, but evidently some of the musicians can. It appears that Panasonic does not skip frames.

I could imagine a funeral, like a wedding might be time when people run over time limits.

 

[Pov2]

the dropped frames some cameras have when they split video into 4GB chunks. Now, I may not be able to detect a few missed frames, but evidently some of the musicians can. It appears that Panasonic does not skip frames.

Do cameras still split files into 4GB chunks? My new G9 formatted my SD card with an exFAT file system which doesn't have a 4GB file size limit. I wonder why cameras would split the files when there is no reason for that.

 

[Michael Meissner]

the dropped frames some cameras have when they split video into 4GB chunks. Now, I may not be able to detect a few missed frames, but evidently some of the musicians can. It appears that Panasonic does not skip frames.

Do cameras still split files into 4GB chunks? My new G9 formatted my SD card with an exFAT file system which doesn't have a 4GB file size limit. I wonder why cameras would split the files when there is no reason for that.

I would imagine it is simpler, particularly given the camera companies reuse software from one model to another.

The G85 will split AVCHD/MP4 1080p files at 4GB (roughly 28 minutes) even if you are using an exFat card.

On the other hand, it will not split MP4 4K files at 4GB if you are using an exFat card. It will split the files at 4GB on SDHC cards. According to the manual, it will split 4K files at either 3 hours and 4 minutes or if the size would go above 96GB.