The case against the SAL1650

[TheSonyEnthusiast]

So I know that a few threads have popped up regarding zoom lenses in recent months and suggestions have included but aren't limited to the following:

1. SAL1680Z

2. SAL2875

3. SAL16105 or SAL24105

4. SAL1650

5. SAL2470Z

Over the past year I've noticed multiple copies of the SAL1650 being listed for sale as MF only lenses, claiming the AF no longer works. Interestingly, I actually have a bum copy as well that I'd yet to tinker with but decided to spend a little of this afternoon disassembling it and finding out why it isn't working.


Outer assembly and lens group removed, main PCB and SSM motor in view


Close-up crop of previous photo, the SSM ribbon cable had discoloration and possibly burns (not really visible). You can see the two posts above it with the same burn marks and discoloration, clearly visible.


Underside of the main PCB. The component with burn marks is "003 Yf"

So I got to pricing the main board and SSM at Encompass Parts, Sony's authorized parts distributor and the pricing isn't promising: SSM assembly is $252.99, and the main board is $84.06.

Even if the Yf 003 could be identified and replacement performed (standard solder joints), it leaves the question what caused the failure to begin with. If it's the SSM failing, it isn't cost effective to repair and you won't know until you either replace the board component, or the board.

I know the lens has the benefits of being SSM and f2.8, and one lens does not an argument make, but given the number of broken copies I see popping up on eBay I'd personally advise against purchasing it, as I believe it might be an issue with the SSM assembly or use of a subpar board component leading to increased likelihood of failure. To put it in perspective, the only other lenses I see more broken copies of on eBay, or atleast use to, is the SAL1870.



If you have a case for it, share similar sentiments, et cetera then let me know your thoughts.

 

[Ed at Ridersite]

My SAL 16-50 F2.8 is four years old next month and I've had no issues with it - used extensively.

BTW, I the guy who throws his A-68 and 70-400mm G2 in the creek ;-)

 

[Massao]

So I know that a few threads have popped up regarding zoom lenses in recent months and suggestions have included but aren't limited to the following:

1. SAL1680Z

2. SAL2875

3. SAL16105 or SAL24105

4. SAL1650

5. SAL2470Z

Over the past year I've noticed multiple copies of the SAL1650 being listed for sale as MF only lenses, claiming the AF no longer works. Interestingly, I actually have a bum copy as well that I'd yet to tinker with but decided to spend a little of this afternoon disassembling it and finding out why it isn't working.


Outer assembly and lens group removed, main PCB and SSM motor in view


Close-up crop of previous photo, the SSM ribbon cable had discoloration and possibly burns (not really visible). You can see the two posts above it with the same burn marks and discoloration, clearly visible.


Underside of the main PCB. The component with burn marks is "003 Yf"

So I got to pricing the main board and SSM at Encompass Parts, Sony's authorized parts distributor and the pricing isn't promising: SSM assembly is $252.99, and the main board is $84.06.

Even if the Yf 003 could be identified and replacement performed (standard solder joints), it leaves the question what caused the failure to begin with. If it's the SSM failing, it isn't cost effective to repair and you won't know until you either replace the board component, or the board.

I know the lens has the benefits of being SSM and f2.8, and one lens does not an argument make, but given the number of broken copies I see popping up on eBay I'd personally advise against purchasing it, as I believe it might be an issue with the SSM assembly or use of a subpar board component leading to increased likelihood of failure. To put it in perspective, the only other lenses I see more broken copies of on eBay, or atleast use to, is the SAL1870.

If you have a case for it, share similar sentiments, et cetera then let me know your thoughts.

Many thanks for this. I lens has been on the top of my wish list, based on earlier enquiry here .

I'm very interested to hear from other users about these issues--I didn't knew the problem is so prevalent.

Kind regards,

Massao

--
--
First camera: Canon FTB; First autofocus SLR camera: Pentax; First Nikon: F601 (N6006); First digital camera: Sony DSC-W5; First DSLR: Nikon D70; First mirrorless ICL camera: Samsung nx11

 

[Lensmate]

My SAL 16-50 F2.8 is four years old next month and I've had no issues with it - used extensively.

BTW, I the guy who throws his A-68 and 70-400mm G2 in the creek ;-)

Some people will do anything to get a new camera and lens setup....hope the wife bought the ruse...lol

-Martin P

Martin Passchier

Explore Martin Passchier’s 973 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

 

[TheSonyEnthusiast]

My SAL 16-50 F2.8 is four years old next month and I've had no issues with it - used extensively.

BTW, I the guy who throws his A-68 and 70-400mm G2 in the creek ;-)

"Throws in the creek" is such a strong phrase, I prefer "give swimming lessons" or "dabble in underwater photography"

Also as an aside to the discussion of the SAL1650, I am waiting for a motherboard to come in from China for the A68; I did as much troubleshooting as I could with the current board and deduced that it is somehow damaged too.

When I replaced the housing assembly, both the shutter charge, aperture motors and ribbon cables were replaced. Even when I replaced the shutter there were still issues of it throwing an error when any lens attached or when the shutter released was pressed, so I assume there is something on the board that is damaged, which is a bit of a shame.

Will update a bit more when I get the part and have the time, work's been murdering me the past couple weeks.

 

[tqlla]

For the cost of those parts, you could just buy another 16-50mm SSM lens.

They appear to sell on ebay for less than $200

 

[linzdoctor7d]

So I know that a few threads have popped up regarding zoom lenses in recent months and suggestions have included but aren't limited to the following:

1. SAL1680Z

2. SAL2875

3. SAL16105 or SAL24105

4. SAL1650

5. SAL2470Z

Over the past year I've noticed multiple copies of the SAL1650 being listed for sale as MF only lenses, claiming the AF no longer works. Interestingly, I actually have a bum copy as well that I'd yet to tinker with but decided to spend a little of this afternoon disassembling it and finding out why it isn't working.


Outer assembly and lens group removed, main PCB and SSM motor in view


Close-up crop of previous photo, the SSM ribbon cable had discoloration and possibly burns (not really visible). You can see the two posts above it with the same burn marks and discoloration, clearly visible.


Underside of the main PCB. The component with burn marks is "003 Yf"

So I got to pricing the main board and SSM at Encompass Parts, Sony's authorized parts distributor and the pricing isn't promising: SSM assembly is $252.99, and the main board is $84.06.

Even if the Yf 003 could be identified and replacement performed (standard solder joints), it leaves the question what caused the failure to begin with. If it's the SSM failing, it isn't cost effective to repair and you won't know until you either replace the board component, or the board.

I know the lens has the benefits of being SSM and f2.8, and one lens does not an argument make, but given the number of broken copies I see popping up on eBay I'd personally advise against purchasing it, as I believe it might be an issue with the SSM assembly or use of a subpar board component leading to increased likelihood of failure. To put it in perspective, the only other lenses I see more broken copies of on eBay, or atleast use to, is the SAL1870.

If you have a case for it, share similar sentiments, et cetera then let me know your thoughts.

I have had my 16-50 from day one when they were released with the A77 back in Aug 2011. Between the A77 125,000 clicks and my a77m2 135,000 clicks and my former A700 unknown number of clicks! That lens got a work out shooting sports, landscapes, portraits in all weather conditions. Maybe some of these broken lens were worked harder than mine! My lens still works fine!

 

[rgwaller1]

I would have to disagree. My SAL 16-50 has been a workhorse since 2011 and the only thing I have to do is wipe dust off the front lens occasionally. Yes some lenses will go bad and that can happen to any type. I now use it on my A7RIII.

 

[Marco Cinnirella]

Interesting ! Have to say I had a love-hate relationship when I had this lens on my a77 - loved it from about 20mm up to 45mm, thought it was good at 50mm but hated it big time at 16mm - mine had to be stopped down to f8 or f9 to get acceptable landscape shots unless you cropped into the image so you lost the soft borders. Nice contrast and color though !

Maybe I had a duff copy but I posted threads here at the time about my experiences and many agreed theirs was similar, so maybe it was not a duff. Certainly, since moving to FF I find both my Tamron 24-70 f2.8 and Sony CZ 24-70 G2 to be better lenses especially at the wide end.

 

[TheSonyEnthusiast]

But was this lens singly on each of those cameras the entire time? Those counts would be surprising for a single lens and I doubt as many people have shot so extensively. That's not to say there arent great quality copies out there, but this lens and the aforementioned 18-70 consistently and disproportionately show problems relative to other copies and I can't justify even a used lens purchase that is a $330 timebomb. Keep in mind that's not even including tech time from a place like Precision Camera, because I make my own repairs at home.

Did they receive a bad batch of chips from "130" whom I assume was either the assembler of said chip or solderer of the SSM to the chip? Were these subpar board components missed during QA testing? Was the SSM the source of board burn up? Do these problems only affect certain serial numbers?

 

[Marco Cinnirella]

But was this lens singly on each of those cameras the entire time? Those counts would be surprising for a single lens and I doubt as many people have shot so extensively. That's not to say there arent great quality copies out there, but this lens and the aforementioned 18-70 consistently and disproportionately show problems relative to other copies and I can't justify even a used lens purchase that is a $330 timebomb. Keep in mind that's not even including tech time from a place like Precision Camera, because I make my own repairs at home.

Did they receive a bad batch of chips from "130" whom I assume was either the assembler of said chip or solderer of the SSM to the chip? Were these subpar board components missed during QA testing? Was the SSM the source of board burn up? Do these problems only affect certain serial numbers?

In general I am a bit wary of buying used lenses with SSM motors because they have a higher failure rate than older screw-drive AF lenses - that's actually true of any brand apparently, so lens repair techs tell me

 

[TheSonyEnthusiast]

I'm a bit more optimistic regarding used lenses, even if my most recent procurement had issues and is in the process of being returned. As long as the lens looks cosmetically excellent, odds are it is mechanically as well. With that said, half my SSM lenses were bought at Sony when I worked there (70300G, 2470Z) and every other lens I've bought on eBay has been a second gen (70200G2, 70400G2, 1635Z2). I'm not necessarily more wary of first gens than I am of second gen used, but would prefer second gens because of improvements made on the lens, either due to improved optic coatings or faster motor.

 

[FrancoD]

For the cost of those parts, you could just buy another 16-50mm SSM lens.
They appear to sell on ebay for less than $200

I see the SELP 1650 for less than $200 but not the SAL 1650.

Maybe you could post a link if you see one. (not listed for parts or similar)

 

[TheSonyEnthusiast]

For the cost of those parts, you could just buy another 16-50mm SSM lens.
They appear to sell on ebay for less than $200

I see the SELP 1650 for less than $200 but not the SAL 1650.

Maybe you could post a link if you see one. (not listed for parts or similar)

There is only one lens (auction) that is currently below $200 that doesn't explicitly state there are issues with the autofocus, which sort of proves my original point I was making at the prevalence of autofocus failure for this particular model.

 

[tqlla]

You will have to win them via bids. But they typically sell for around $200.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-SAL-1...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-SAL-1...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-SAL-1...591327&hash=item2cea1b4b21:g:tnMAAOSwT9lczF1g

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-SAL-1...591327&hash=item3409c2158e:g:0YoAAOSwkMVcyylT

If for some reason new listings go higher than that, I will see my 16-50mm F2.8 for $250+shipping. My lens is in excellent shape except for a tiny nick on the left side of the lens, I am not sure how it got there.

 

[FrancoD]

3 of those $229-260 lenses have defects listed (after you read the "in GOOD condition bits)

The one for $199 has this description

Lens has small speckles inside which may be slight separation or some other concern? Please see close up pic of front element.

It still appears to be fully functional and takes very good pictures (see samples).

you may be lucky with that one or not , but you have been warned if not.

 

[TheSonyEnthusiast]

If the price does go up I'd sell it and quit while you're ahead. As it sits every broken lens currently for sale is overpriced purely from a parts standpoint and genuinely don't feel they are worth more than $20 with shipping. Afterall, say I rebuilt it and didn't have to adjust or replace the focus encoder as well (because sneezing is enough to bend the forks), just the SSM and main board alone would make the total investment $350 if the lens were bought at $20, thats with labor being free.

Used they go for around $200, and new they are as cheap as $480 right now, so I'm baffled as to how anyone or any shop could justify a repair. I doubt even Sony would authorize an in-warranty repair as it would be more cost effective to send a customer a new lens.

Personally I feel Sony is charging way too much for their SSM motor and main board on this lens, which is contributing to the "disposability" of the lens.

 

[tqlla]

3 of those $229-260 lenses have defects listed (after you read the "in GOOD condition bits)

The one for $199 has this description

Lens has small speckles inside which may be slight separation or some other concern? Please see close up pic of front element.

It still appears to be fully functional and takes very good pictures (see samples).

you may be lucky with that one or not , but you have been warned if not.

You have to look at the completed items if you want an accurate gauge on how much the lens is selling for.

There are no buy it now lenses for $200, but there are a few below $200 that you can bid on. Based on previous history, they sell for around $200.

 

[FrancoD]

3 of those $229-260 lenses have defects listed (after you read the "in GOOD condition bits)

The one for $199 has this description

Lens has small speckles inside which may be slight separation or some other concern? Please see close up pic of front element.

It still appears to be fully functional and takes very good pictures (see samples).

you may be lucky with that one or not , but you have been warned if not.

You have to look at the completed items if you want an accurate gauge on how much the lens is selling for.

There are no buy it now lenses for $200, but there are a few below $200 that you can bid on. Based on previous history, they sell for around $200.

So why would anyone here give you $250 for yours ?

Anyway, the completed items does not tell you the condition of the item so it would include all the as is /faulty / great but with fungus and so on.

Given that 3 out of the 4 I have looked at do have some of those faults, I am not surprised that some if not several go for less than $200.

 

[TheSonyEnthusiast]

3 of those $229-260 lenses have defects listed (after you read the "in GOOD condition bits)

The one for $199 has this description

Lens has small speckles inside which may be slight separation or some other concern? Please see close up pic of front element.

It still appears to be fully functional and takes very good pictures (see samples).

you may be lucky with that one or not , but you have been warned if not.

You have to look at the completed items if you want an accurate gauge on how much the lens is selling for.

There are no buy it now lenses for $200, but there are a few below $200 that you can bid on. Based on previous history, they sell for around $200.

As I pointed out, there's only one that is below $200 that doesn't explicitly state there are autofocus issues, and it's an auction. Every other lens is broken, and as he pointed out, even ones above $200 appear broken as well.

I can understand the decision to defend the lens because you have a good copy. Great, it works for you and more power to you because of it. But you have to be objective on this and realize there are *a bunch* of broken and failing copies on eBay at and above the price you mentioned. Sure, you can look at sold listings and that is a good start, but including those, how many are broken? Some have sold repeatedly.

If you look up literally any other model of a mount lens short of the SAL1870, you won't find such a disproportionate failure rate.