What makes for a good B&W lens?

Justin9999

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I’ve been thinking about shooting only B&W for a while as a way to teach myself to be a better photographer.

I don’t know what makes for good B&W photography, so I’ll just take a bunch of pictures until I can see what worked & what didn’t.

I remember reading once that a particular lens was good for B&W photography because of things... things I didn’t pay attention to at the time.

So what makes for a good B&W lens?

Any recommend prime lenses in the 25-60mm range, under $200, adaptable to a Fuji body?
 
This lens has been rated very high for B&W photography. I bought the lens a couple months ago and have it mounted on a Fuji X-T3 body with the proper lens adapter (it doesn't come in a Fuji mount). I really am impressed with it. It doesn't meet your cost criteria but I wanted to make you aware of it.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...r_45BA2461_Voigtlander_Nokton_40mm_f_1_4.html
I try to start low on cost targets, especially when I expect most to be used from the 1970's ;) Thank you for the suggestion.

B&H shows single coated and multicoated variants. Is one better for B&W?
 
I’ve been thinking about shooting only B&W for a while as a way to teach myself to be a better photographer.

I don’t know what makes for good B&W photography, so I’ll just take a bunch of pictures until I can see what worked & what didn’t.

I remember reading once that a particular lens was good for B&W photography because of things... things I didn’t pay attention to at the time.

So what makes for a good B&W lens?

Any recommend prime lenses in the 25-60mm range, under $200, adaptable to a Fuji body?
I think there might be some mythology around the idea of a lens being good for black and white. It might be that certain lenses are "good enough" for black and white in that the effects of CA and LoCA aren't as easy to see, but even that isn't a great measure since anything that disperses colors will ultimately degrade an image even if black and white. In some ways, it might be worse.

I think more appropriate is the question of best focal length for the application - portrait, landscape, street, sports etc.
 
This lens has been rated very high for B&W photography. I bought the lens a couple months ago and have it mounted on a Fuji X-T3 body with the proper lens adapter (it doesn't come in a Fuji mount). I really am impressed with it. It doesn't meet your cost criteria but I wanted to make you aware of it.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...r_45BA2461_Voigtlander_Nokton_40mm_f_1_4.html
I try to start low on cost targets, especially when I expect most to be used from the 1970's ;) Thank you for the suggestion.

B&H shows single coated and multicoated variants. Is one better for B&W?
There probably is no right or wrong answer, but here is a couple things written by others regarding this lens:

https://jonasraskphotography.com/2013/10/04/voigtlander-nokton-40mm-f1-4-review/

https://mrleica.com/voigtlander-40mm/

I personally choose the SC version.

--
We all have wings
Some of us don't know why
-INXS-
 
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This lens has been rated very high for B&W photography. I bought the lens a couple months ago and have it mounted on a Fuji X-T3 body with the proper lens adapter (it doesn't come in a Fuji mount). I really am impressed with it. It doesn't meet your cost criteria but I wanted to make you aware of it.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...r_45BA2461_Voigtlander_Nokton_40mm_f_1_4.html
I try to start low on cost targets, especially when I expect most to be used from the 1970's ;) Thank you for the suggestion.

B&H shows single coated and multicoated variants. Is one better for B&W?
There probably is no right or wrong answer, but here is a couple things written by others regarding this lens:

https://jonasraskphotography.com/2013/10/04/voigtlander-nokton-40mm-f1-4-review/

https://mrleica.com/voigtlander-40mm/

I personally choose the SC version.
There is a different look between the SC and MC version, at least on the samples I've seen. Neat little lens.
 
Thinking in terms of specific equipment for black and white sounds ridiculous to me. I'd be surprised to hear from any photographer who reaches for a certain lens when considering a black and white composition.

There are far more important matters to concentrate on. Working on vision, timing, appreciation of light, colour values, texture and processing will reap greater rewards than investing in a Distagon 84mm ƒ0.75 shift lens.
 
I’ve been thinking about shooting only B&W for a while as a way to teach myself to be a better photographer.

I don’t know what makes for good B&W photography, so I’ll just take a bunch of pictures until I can see what worked & what didn’t.

I remember reading once that a particular lens was good for B&W photography because of things... things I didn’t pay attention to at the time.

So what makes for a good B&W lens?
I have spent a career using the exact same lenses for both color and B&W. No differentiation.

Generally sharp contrasty lenses + specific content + carefully chosen light.
 
Thinking in terms of specific equipment for black and white sounds ridiculous to me. I'd be surprised to hear from any photographer who reaches for a certain lens when considering a black and white composition.
Be surprised! And when you've picked yourself up off the floor you will realise that you were right all along...

When shooting *film* there were lenses that *worked with B&W* and showed a far poorer performance with colour. As @stevo23 states there are aberrations due to colour so with old ortho-chromatic film, or pan-chromatic in conjunction with a yellow filter, you remove a lot of this. So *good for B&W* generally meant *useless with colour*...

But there are also older lenses that have remarkable properties when combined with B&W *film*... I reach for them when using film, because of the way the film responds. With digital I wouldn't dream of using them, useless...
There are far more important matters to concentrate on. Working on vision, timing, appreciation of light, colour values, texture and processing will reap greater rewards than investing in a Distagon 84mm ƒ0.75 shift lens.
I absolutely agree, but in agreeing I will also say that successful B&W is about understanding a picture reduced to gradation and the play of light/dark. It means forgetting the obsession of contrast and revealing detail in everything, the mainstay of digital *or look what my camera can record*.

A good, honest and transparent prime, one with subtle gradation rather than the *digitally optimised kit zoom* I find to be the best. It can be the latest $,1000's or a second hand MF Nikkor for less than $100, if you understand B&W (as you obviously do...) you will also know the light that responds to it.

--
https://timtuckerphoto.smugmug.com/Bloghome/Blog
 
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Thinking in terms of specific equipment for black and white sounds ridiculous to me. I'd be surprised to hear from any photographer who reaches for a certain lens when considering a black and white composition.

There are far more important matters to concentrate on. Working on vision, timing, appreciation of light, colour values, texture and processing will reap greater rewards than investing in a Distagon 84mm ƒ0.75 shift lens.
So are you saying that all lenses are created equal? I'm not an equipment snob by any stretch of the imagination but I've literally read countless posts on DPreview where people recommend certain equipment for a given scenario. Think bokeh for portraits, I couldn't even begin to estimate how many posts recommend a specific lens for its ability to provide a "pleasing bokeh", etc.

I definitely agree there are certainly far more important things than what lens is attached to the camera, but the OP asked a question about lenses with respect to B&W images.
 
Thinking in terms of specific equipment for black and white sounds ridiculous to me. I'd be surprised to hear from any photographer who reaches for a certain lens when considering a black and white composition.

There are far more important matters to concentrate on. Working on vision, timing, appreciation of light, colour values, texture and processing will reap greater rewards than investing in a Distagon 84mm ƒ0.75 shift lens.
So are you saying that all lenses are created equal?
In terms of colour v black and white at a chosen focal length, max f-stop and price point, yes. I'd be very surprised if the designers differentiate. If they did, then I'm sure we'd see marketing material out there to say so. Or more likely reviewers would mention it. Marketing would be seen as a negative seeing as 93.753% of photographers never take black and white photos.
I'm not an equipment snob by any stretch of the imagination but I've literally read countless posts on DPreview where people recommend certain equipment for a given scenario. Think bokeh for portraits, I couldn't even begin to estimate how many posts recommend a specific lens for its ability to provide a "pleasing bokeh", etc.
Yup, the number of blades and a bit of alchemy can have a great effect on bokeh which is an emotive area full of opinion. Some lenses get it very wrong, most are in the middle and a few are better. Again, price point is a huge factor though you have to bear in mind the economy of scale for more popular focal lengths. Congrats for reading countless posts, I got bored after the first couple. How many posts have you read about colour v black and white properties of lenses?

CA used to be a significant consideration but as this can be corrected in pp it isn't the issue it used to be. My old 17-55 nikon f2.8 was very disappointing if not corrected and if used for black and white there would be telltale fringing - but I now have LR set to correct CA for all imports and haven't thought about CA in some time.
I definitely agree there are certainly far more important things than what lens is attached to the camera, but the OP asked a question about lenses with respect to B&W images.
But has anyone recommended a lens that isn't also good for colour - a lens that is specifically great for black and white? I don't think the ops question was relevant to his concern of how to improve his black and white photography. Without seeing his current standard I don't know what his problem is, but I suspect it has nothing to do with his equipment. That's my best guess from the info supplied.

I may be wrong, he may previsualise better than Ansel, process better than Brandt and conceptualise better than Bresson. But hey, he's got the wrong lens for black and white. Slaps forehead. How can he possibly improve without that killer lens?

Studying the work of such great photographers and playing with PS has done a lot more for the quality of my work than any other factor.

--
Wedding and fine art photographer www.johnleechstudio.co.uk
 
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When shooting *film* there were lenses that *worked with B&W* and showed a far poorer performance with colour. As @stevo23 states there are aberrations due to colour so with old ortho-chromatic film, or pan-chromatic in conjunction with a yellow filter, you remove a lot of this. So *good for B&W* generally meant *useless with colour*...
I assumed he was using digital where CA correction is now straightforward. Gone are the days where i'd have to manually correct CA using sliders in PS, my LR import does it automatically. But in my experience poor CA is also a bit naff for colour images so I don't consider the CA that relevant to the OPs prob. Incidentally, I've had a play with my old film black and white filters on my digital kit and the results were very disappointing. All it does is reduce the amount of information gathered and reduces options in processing.

Lens wise, black and white is an emotive area. I've enjoyed using the very worst of lenses. I had an old phone with a badly marked lens which gave quite a nice dreamy look. It wasn't good for everything, but no piece of photographic kit is. So the other unknown is what the OP wants out of the sport?

If pushed for a direct answer for the OP's question 'what makes for a good B&W lens' I'd have to answer 'the same as for a good colour lens'.

35835602203_dc4c7bc982.jpg


36475368742_7af4cdf922.jpg


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Hmm, they're only showing up tiny on here. The flickr links are:




--
Wedding and fine art photographer www.johnleechstudio.co.uk
 
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Agreed. I was trying to highlight where the phrase *a good B&W lens* came from and what it really means... ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

I think that people look for the answers only in what they see and understand, and if they only look at and understand the kit then...

Personally I think the vast majority of lenses can produce stunning images, if you look at and understand the subject. I use what I have, what I've always had, and it has never really occurred to me that a specific *look* has anything much to do with the kit at all.

Nice images.
 
:-)

I only post on here occasionally, a long enough gap for me to forget that it is primarily a kit based website so photography rarely features.

When it comes to cameras I have a cheap drone with an onboard camera that is absolutely useless - the drone is great fun but the camera just adds weight, so I've removed it for longer flight times. Other than that, every digital camera I've used has been good for something - and none of them have been good for everything.
 
Thinking in terms of specific equipment for black and white sounds ridiculous to me. I'd be surprised to hear from any photographer who reaches for a certain lens when considering a black and white composition.
Be surprised! And when you've picked yourself up off the floor you will realise that you were right all along...

When shooting *film* there were lenses that *worked with B&W* and showed a far poorer performance with colour. As @stevo23 states there are aberrations due to colour so with old ortho-chromatic film, or pan-chromatic in conjunction with a yellow filter, you remove a lot of this. So *good for B&W* generally meant *useless with colour*...
But I'm not supporting the idea that a lens with high CA or LoCA is good for BW - on the contrary. BW doesn't hide fringing, it just turns it monochromatic, but it still appears as a loss of perceived sharpness.
But there are also older lenses that have remarkable properties when combined with B&W *film*... I reach for them when using film, because of the way the film responds. With digital I wouldn't dream of using them, useless...
You're associating BW with film somehow - that doesn't make any sense for at least the past 70 years.
There are far more important matters to concentrate on. Working on vision, timing, appreciation of light, colour values, texture and processing will reap greater rewards than investing in a Distagon 84mm ƒ0.75 shift lens.
I absolutely agree, but in agreeing I will also say that successful B&W is about understanding a picture reduced to gradation and the play of light/dark. It means forgetting the obsession of contrast and revealing detail in everything, the mainstay of digital *or look what my camera can record*.

A good, honest and transparent prime, one with subtle gradation rather than the *digitally optimised kit zoom* I find to be the best. It can be the latest $,1000's or a second hand MF Nikkor for less than $100, if you understand B&W (as you obviously do...) you will also know the light that responds to it.
 
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using the M mount adapter for you camera opens the door to myriad screw mound lenses for the leica screw mt which is easily adapted to an M mount, These legacy and off brand lenses from pre ww2 throuth the seventies often seeable individual characters making them so interesting, Some lenses without coatings were wonderfully low in contrast others had softer edges and so on almost all can be had for a song, There are many old Leica lenses that would be fine for you such as any of the older elmars, the summitar, the the uncoate summer each offer a somewhat different look.

the list of makers who made lenses in the leica screw mt is huge, Canon, Minolta, Nikon, Schnider, Wollensack, kodak, to name a few and a bunch of russian lenses which on your camera will need no adjustment to the focus as yours is a reflex and not a range finder camera, Many of these are first rate lenses such as the Canon thirty five f 2 or f2.8 I have forgotten which, Nikon 90 is pricy but a great ninety, kodak ektar in the leica screw mount is a fine lens and so on. but the russian and many of the wollensack and others are available for under a hundred bucks, the early leica glass in usable condition in the under five hundred, A quick cruise through ebay under Leica screw mt lenses will be an eye opener.

finally that same m adapter with the screw to me adapter will also allow you to mount many of the older enlarger lenses which cand be fun to try out,
 
I’ve been thinking about shooting only B&W for a while as a way to teach myself to be a better photographer.

I don’t know what makes for good B&W photography, so I’ll just take a bunch of pictures until I can see what worked & what didn’t.

I remember reading once that a particular lens was good for B&W photography because of things... things I didn’t pay attention to at the time.

So what makes for a good B&W lens?
Consider how a color camera, a color camera used for B&W, and a true colorblind camera deal with color errors in the optics.

With no extra processing, classic chromatic aberration (slightly different magnification by wavelength) causes blur away from the center of the frame. It manifests in color as a radial color spread, and in B&W as a radial luminance blur. With a color camera, you can use software to partially fix this (but still have a little blur, since there are usually only 3 color channels, each still slightly blurred radially after correction, though aligned with each other). You can reduce the radial blur for B&W, but not 100%, with CA correction on the color source. With a true monochrome camera, you can't correct CA in software, so a lens without visible CA is more important.

"Purple fringing" due to IR light being more OOF and bleeding into darker areas from bright ones doesn't show as color in a B&W, but is still a halo, so a lens that focuses IR the same as visible light helps avoid those halos.

The type of chromatic aberration where there is a general greenish and magenta cast on either side of the plane of focus is pretty much irrelevant for B&W photography.
 
I’ve been thinking about shooting only B&W for a while as a way to teach myself to be a better photographer.

I don’t know what makes for good B&W photography, so I’ll just take a bunch of pictures until I can see what worked & what didn’t.

I remember reading once that a particular lens was good for B&W photography because of things... things I didn’t pay attention to at the time.

So what makes for a good B&W lens?

Any recommend prime lenses in the 25-60mm range, under $200, adaptable to a Fuji body?
Suggest checking out the following on youtube "Seeing in Black and White with Eileen Rafferty" She does an excellent job of talking about what type of situations can make for a good B&W and what to look for when shooting B&W. Example if there are multiple colors in a scene but the luminosity across the scene is the same the resulting B&W conversion will likely have a very limited range of tones.

Also if you do a search for B&W photography on youtube and set the time filter for 20+ minutes there are several good video on the subject from the B&H Event Space and other channels.
 
As most of the answers explain - a good b&w lens was one that might have been not good enough for color.

As a constructive side note - I had really good results on b&w with these:

Similarities - both color and b&w are captured and observed the same way, so the imaqe quality factors are basically the same.

Differences - b&w photography is more about luminance, shape, structure and detail so contrast, sharpness and oof rendering are easier to notice or compare.

Based on the above, your price and focal preferences and my experience I can recommend several lenses.

For scapes and general use:

35mm Zeiss Jena Flektogon - any version, the pre-zebra silver one is very cheap and really good for b&w more so than for color due to a bit tamed down color rendering and some tint in the t* coatings which are the reasons for the really good price but don't affect b&w visibly.

50mm Rollei Planar 1.8 - it has Voigtländer and Zeiss twins but its coatings are better - b&w with HFT coatings is always very contrasty and acute. Also the Schneider Xenon is a good lens bur a bit more rare so more expensive.

For portraiture:

Jupiter 50mm 1.5 (older silver models if possible) it has good resolution combined with lower contrast and edge sharpness. A good and cheap Zeiss Sonnar copy with terrific 3d volume rendering. Looks better on b&w due to its old formula coating.
 
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Ah, this old thread is back to haunt us, it will not be ignored...
Thinking in terms of specific equipment for black and white sounds ridiculous to me. I'd be surprised to hear from any photographer who reaches for a certain lens when considering a black and white composition.
Be surprised! And when you've picked yourself up off the floor you will realise that you were right all along...

When shooting *film* there were lenses that *worked with B&W* and showed a far poorer performance with colour. As @stevo23 states there are aberrations due to colour so with old ortho-chromatic film, or pan-chromatic in conjunction with a yellow filter, you remove a lot of this. So *good for B&W* generally meant *useless with colour*...
But I'm not supporting the idea that a lens with high CA or LoCA is good for BW - on the contrary. BW doesn't hide fringing, it just turns it monochromatic, but it still appears as a loss of perceived sharpness.
Ortho-chromatic silver halide film is only sensitive to the blue end of the spectrum and so even if the lens fails to focus the entire spectrum of visible light in one spot at the edges of the image then it becomes less of a concern if the film is only sensitive to a narrower band of wavelengths. This is the same when using stronger filters for B&W film, if you only allow to pass a part of the visible spectrum through the lens then you reduce aberration due to the different refractive indices of different wavelengths.
But there are also older lenses that have remarkable properties when combined with B&W *film*... I reach for them when using film, because of the way the film responds. With digital I wouldn't dream of using them, useless...
You're associating BW with film somehow - that doesn't make any sense for at least the past 70 years.
It is inherent in the nature of film that it has a threshold, or a level of light that must be absorbed before a reaction takes place and a latent image is recorded (the film speed). It is also in the nature of a lot of very old un-coated optics used exclusively with B&W that they had a level of flare that often sat below the threshold of the film. This basically had the effect of *pre-sensitising* the film as in it applied a universal level of light (energy) across the whole film. The end result is that although you had an increased level of fog on the film the details in the deep shadow when combined with this flare actually had enough light energy to create a reaction in the film and so record some detail, where without the flare they were below the threshold (sensitivity being a log scale this had no effect on the highlights). I have one such lens from around 1910 and though remarkable when used with care of B&W it is useless with colour because of the way the silver halide/dye layers work with the orange filter layer.

As I explained, the language that is used to describe a lens as a *good B&W* lens relates to the film days. You can't just view things from a current understanding of digital and apply it to film, film simply doesn't work in the same way.

I still use these lenses and techniques with modern B&W film so your a little more recent than your *70 years* estimate...

[ATTACH alt="FP4 Plus, 5"x 4" sheet film. With standard development keeping the detail outside the window placed the shadow values on and below the threshold of the film, pretty much pure black. At f22 the indicated exposure was 2 seconds so allowing for reciprocity failure a 4 second exposure was indicated just to keep the shadows pretty much pure black, but would've pushed the highlights (the level of light was above reciprocity and so no failure) up another stop and so forced a *stand* development to maintain some highlight detail, and subsequent loss of contrast. What I was after was the impression of light and maintaining the highlights against shadow. So I used my 1910 Tessar at 2 seconds with a yellow filter because in cases like this the level of flare from the window means I can ignore reciprocity and just expose for the highlights and the shadows will still record with some detail. In the scan and finished print I bring the shadows down and the finished is below. It is what I call a *good B&W lens* because it's properties suit B&W film but are detrimental to both colour film and digital as to render it quite useless."]2323595[/ATTACH]
FP4 Plus, 5"x 4" sheet film. With standard development keeping the detail outside the window placed the shadow values on and below the threshold of the film, pretty much pure black. At f22 the indicated exposure was 2 seconds so allowing for reciprocity failure a 4 second exposure was indicated just to keep the shadows pretty much pure black, but would've pushed the highlights (the level of light was above reciprocity and so no failure) up another stop and so forced a *stand* development to maintain some highlight detail, and subsequent loss of contrast. What I was after was the impression of light and maintaining the highlights against shadow. So I used my 1910 Tessar at 2 seconds with a yellow filter because in cases like this the level of flare from the window means I can ignore reciprocity and just expose for the highlights and the shadows will still record with some detail. In the scan and finished print I bring the shadows down and the finished is below. It is what I call a *good B&W lens* because it's properties suit B&W film but are detrimental to both colour film and digital as to render it quite useless.

cfa3f44a984a45b2a4755b4c8f2991aa.jpg

I do actually know what I'm talking about in this instance.

;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

--
https://timtuckerphoto.smugmug.com/Scotland-1/
 

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