Can 120cm Octabox + 1 Speedlight produce nice Soft Light?

[nbp2019]

Hello.

I'm about to get a 120cm Octabox this week for my TT685-F.

Has anyone here tried using the same speedlight inside the octabox with white diffuser?

Did it produce a nice soft light for newborn or do you have an idea if it will?

I'm not sure if the size of the octabox is too big for the speedlight (have to use it for low power) but will it be sufficient for portraits? There's the 90cm square softbox (or 90cmx60cm rectangular one) but I might still go for the 120cm octabox because I'm considering to use it for parents with their newborn as well. or should I?

I've read so many photographers are using 50" Westcott (mega apollo) but I'm limited on my budget.

I would appreciate for any helpful feedbacks.

Thank you.

 

[Sailor Blue]

Hello.

I'm about to get a 120cm Octabox this week for my TT685-F.

Has anyone here tried using the same speedlight inside the octabox with white diffuser?

Doing so is quite common but you want double diffusion.

If the hot-shoe flash mounts inside the softbox then the bounce off the back of the softbox is the first diffusion and the fabric front is the second.

If the hot-shoe flash mounts outside the back of the softbox then you need two diffusers, one fabric diffuser half way to the front and the front fabric diffuser.

Did it produce a nice soft light for newborn or do you have an idea if it will?

For soft light you want a diffuser as large as or larger than the subject and you use normally use the diffuser at distances between 1 and 2 times the diameter or diagonal of the diffuser for the best combination of softness and light fall off across the subject.

You can get by with somewhat smaller diffusers for a full length portrait. Details are smaller vs other types of portraits so the slightly harder light helps make the details more visible. I use a 43" white reflection umbrella or 40" softboxs very successfully for full length portraits.

Your 120cm (48") softbox should be large enough for good soft light, especially for waist up shots of a seated mother with child.

I'm not sure if the size of the octabox is too big for the speedlight (have to use it for low power) but will it be sufficient for portraits? There's the 90cm square softbox (or 90cmx60cm rectangular one) but I might still go for the 120cm octabox because I'm considering to use it for parents with their newborn as well. or should I?

You are going to be light limited. I shoot at ISO 100 and f/8-f/11 with about 200Ws to 300 Ws of power from a studio strobe and my 40" softboxes. A hot-shoe flash like your's has the equivalent of about 60Ws of power when diffused. That means you will be shooting with at least 1.8 stops less light output from your softbox.

Shooting with this low power means you will have to boost the ISO and/or open the aperture. Doing either increases the ambient light exposure, giving you less control of the subject and background lighting.

I've read so many photographers are using 50" Westcott (mega apollo) but I'm limited on my budget.

I would appreciate for any helpful feedbacks.

Thank you.

If you are very budget limited then get a 43"-45" white umbrella with a removable black backing for your diffuser. You can get one of these for less than USA $20. These will give you great light if you learn how to use them

Save your money until you can afford to buy something like the Godox AD200 or AD400 and a proper Bowens mount softbox.

Here is a simple setup that takes advantage of using a hot-shoe flash and walls for reflector/fill light. This is based on the Good Light Portrait Corner of Michael Zelbel.

The Good Light Method | A Revolution In Flash Photography Tutorials

Move furniture out of a corner with white walls if you want simple portraits.



Place the subject about a foot from each wall.

Position the rim of the umbrella your arm's span from the subject. Extend your arms out to the sides. Almost touch the subject's nose with one index finger and touch the rim of the umbrella with the other index finger and the umbrella will be the right distance from the subject.

At this distance you can use the umbrella for everything from a head shot to a full body portrait. For full body portraits the feet will be a little underexposed but that is good - the viewer's attention is drawn upward to the brighter face.

The umbrella should be aimed down at the face and upper body. The height should be so that 1/3 of it is below the subject's eye level to give you nice catchlights.

Use ISO 100 and f/4.

Set the shutter speed to the Sync speed minus 1/3 stops to make sure that any flash will sync and not give you a horizontal vignette in your images.

Set the flash to Manual, NOT TTL, and adjust the flash power until you get a good exposure of your subject.

If you have a flash meter it will probably give you the right exposure but it is easy to check.

In post the brightest diffuse highlight (non-specular highlight), which is usually the cheek closest to the light, should read 87% ± 2% in Lightroom or 218 ± 6 in Photoshop.

Once you determine the correct flash power to give you the correct exposure you never change the flash power again as long as you keep the umbrella the same distance from the subject. This holds true indoors whether your subject is in the corner or seated on a chair in the middle of the room.

Using the String Method for Consistent Portraits | Photoflex Lighting School | Photoflex

KISS - one ISO, one aperture, one shutter speed, and one flash power.

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

 

[nbp2019]

Thanks very much for sharing your valuable inputs Sailor Blue!

I'll carefully look into this and your links. I also have the ff replies.

Sailor Blue wrote:

Hello.

I'm about to get a 120cm Octabox this week for my TT685-F.

Has anyone here tried using the same speedlight inside the octabox with white diffuser?

Doing so is quite common but you want double diffusion.

If the hot-shoe flash mounts inside the softbox then the bounce off the back of the softbox is the first diffusion and the fabric front is the second.

- Above setup is what I intend to do.

If the hot-shoe flash mounts outside the back of the softbox then you need two diffusers, one fabric diffuser half way to the front and the front fabric diffuser.

Did it produce a nice soft light for newborn or do you have an idea if it will?

For soft light you want a diffuser as large as or larger than the subject and you use normally use the diffuser at distances between 1 and 2 times the diameter or diagonal of the diffuser for the best combination of softness and light fall off across the subject.

I'm wondering if I could still get the same/a nice soft light if I placed the octabox about 3 feet away from the newborn.

You can get by with somewhat smaller diffusers for a full length portrait. Details are smaller vs other types of portraits so the slightly harder light helps make the details more visible. I use a 43" white reflection umbrella or 40" softboxs very successfully for full length portraits.

Your 120cm (48") softbox should be large enough for good soft light, especially for waist up shots of a seated mother with child.

I'm not sure if the size of the octabox is too big for the speedlight (have to use it for low power) but will it be sufficient for portraits? There's the 90cm square softbox (or 90cmx60cm rectangular one) but I might still go for the 120cm octabox because I'm considering to use it for parents with their newborn as well. or should I?

You are going to be light limited. I shoot at ISO 100 and f/8-f/11 with about 200Ws to 300 Ws of power from a studio strobe and my 40" softboxes. A hot-shoe flash like your's has the equivalent of about 60Ws of power when diffused. That means you will be shooting with at least 1.8 stops less light output from your softbox.

Shooting with this low power means you will have to boost the ISO and/or open the aperture. Doing either increases the ambient light exposure, giving you less control of the subject and background lighting.

I'm not quite sure how I'll have to work on this because at first I was only thinking that having a low power makes a good soft light (and what makes me unsure is if my speedlight and this big octabox is a good combination) but may I ask how I can only have less control of the subject lighting even if I boost the ISO to about 640.

I've read so many photographers are using 50" Westcott (mega apollo) but I'm limited on my budget.

I would appreciate for any helpful feedbacks.

Thank you.

If you are very budget limited then get a 43"-45" white umbrella with a removable black backing for your diffuser. You can get one of these for less than USA $20. These will give you great light if you learn how to use them

It is quite frustrating that what I can see that is available as of now are the 120cm octabox, 90cm sq softbox and the 90cm x 60cm softbox. Others are just plain white umbrella.

Save your money until you can afford to buy something like the Godox AD200 or AD400 and a proper Bowens mount softbox.

Hopefully, I could buy a good lighting like this in the near future especially when the need arises. For now, I have to make a good nice soft light from my budget (wishing I could get a similar result from the lights you've mentioned).

Here is a simple setup that takes advantage of using a hot-shoe flash and walls for reflector/fill light. This is based on the Good Light Portrait Corner of Michael Zelbel.

The Good Light Method | A Revolution In Flash Photography Tutorials

Move furniture out of a corner with white walls if you want simple portraits.



Place the subject about a foot from each wall.

Position the rim of the umbrella your arm's span from the subject. Extend your arms out to the sides. Almost touch the subject's nose with one index finger and touch the rim of the umbrella with the other index finger and the umbrella will be the right distance from the subject.

At this distance you can use the umbrella for everything from a head shot to a full body portrait. For full body portraits the feet will be a little underexposed but that is good - the viewer's attention is drawn upward to the brighter face.

The umbrella should be aimed down at the face and upper body. The height should be so that 1/3 of it is below the subject's eye level to give you nice catchlights.

Use ISO 100 and f/4.

Set the shutter speed to the Sync speed minus 1/3 stops to make sure that any flash will sync and not give you a horizontal vignette in your images.

Set the flash to Manual, NOT TTL, and adjust the flash power until you get a good exposure of your subject.

If you have a flash meter it will probably give you the right exposure but it is easy to check.

In post the brightest diffuse highlight (non-specular highlight), which is usually the cheek closest to the light, should read 87% ± 2% in Lightroom or 218 ± 6 in Photoshop.

Once you determine the correct flash power to give you the correct exposure you never change the flash power again as long as you keep the umbrella the same distance from the subject. This holds true indoors whether your subject is in the corner or seated on a chair in the middle of the room.

Using the String Method for Consistent Portraits | Photoflex Lighting School | Photoflex

KISS - one ISO, one aperture, one shutter speed, and one flash power.

 

[Ellis Vener]

Hello.

I'm about to get a 120cm Octabox this week for my TT685-F.

Has anyone here tried using the same speedlight inside the octabox with white diffuser?

Yes, but...

Did it produce a nice soft light for newborn or do you have an idea if it will?

Yes, but...

I'm not sure if the size of the octabox is too big for the speedlight (have to use it for low power) but will it be sufficient for portraits? There's the 90cm square softbox (or 90cmx60cm rectangular one) but I might still go for the 120cm octabox because I'm considering to use it for parents with their newborn as well. or should I?

The speedlight is going to be a strong limiter to depth of field at low ISO settings or will have to use higher ISO settings, and working distances. You really do want a more powerful light. I reviewed the Adorama Flashpoint eVOLV 200 for the July 2018 issue of PPA's Professional Photographer Magazine https://ppmag.com/news/product-review-adorama-flashpoint-evolv-200-ttl-modular-strobe

I've read so many photographers are using 50" Westcott (mega apollo) but I'm limited on my budget.

Never used one so I have no comment.

I would appreciate for any helpful feedbacks.

What kind of research have you done into how viable this will be as a market? Have

Thank you.

 

[iancandler]

The problem with speed lites is that fresnel lens on the front, it concentrates the light and thus when used with soft box's doesn't let the light fill the box in the way a bare bulb or studio head does.

There are plenty of good 200 w/s bare bulb flashes out there that can be picked up relatively cheap such as the Godox AD200, coupled with an X-Pro transmitter and a reflector that's your lighting needs sorted.

As for soft boxes 120cm is a good size but make sure it will fit the room your shooting in with room to spare as at times your going to need to raise your light above models head height, also make sure it takes/comes with a grid, grids are near essential in smallish areas to control overspill.

 

[fotowbert]

For soft light you want a diffuser as large as or larger than the subject and you use normally use the diffuser at distances between 1 and 2 times the diameter or diagonal of the diffuser for the best combination of softness and light fall off across the subject.

I'm wondering if I could still get the same/a nice soft light if I placed the octabox about 3 feet away from the newborn.

Yes, it will be even softer as you now have the light closer to the subject than Sailor Blue's 1 to 2 times modifier size rule of thumb. You will be at .75 x size. It is the relative size of the light source with respect to the subject position that controls how soft (feathered) the shadow transitions appear. It is this shadow transition quality that defines light "softness".

However you need to be aware of several other effects when moving the light closer. Obviously your illuminated area is decreased and may not fully cover as much of the frame as you want such as including parent(s). Also the light fall off will exhibit more contrast. Surfaces at varying distances to the light will show the effect of the ISL (Inverse Square Law ) more as the light is moved closer. If these factors are objectionable (IMO most people won't notice) they can be dealt with in post.

You are going to be light limited. I shoot at ISO 100 and f/8-f/11 with about 200Ws to 300 Ws of power from a studio strobe and my 40" softboxes. A hot-shoe flash like your's has the equivalent of about 60Ws of power when diffused. That means you will be shooting with at least 1.8 stops less light output from your softbox.

Shooting with this low power means you will have to boost the ISO and/or open the aperture. Doing either increases the ambient light exposure, giving you less control of the subject and background lighting.

I'm not quite sure how I'll have to work on this because at first I was only thinking that having a low power makes a good soft light (and what makes me unsure is if my speedlight and this big octabox is a good combination) but may I ask how I can only have less control of the subject lighting even if I boost the ISO to about 640.

Intensity has nothing to do with softness. As explained above it is the relative size of the light source that makes the light "soft". Direct sunlight and moonlight are equally soft since the relative size of the source is similar. Equally hard is a better description.

The "control" problem you will have shooting with a weak light refers to the increased interference you will get from whatever ambient light is present at your shoot. It's unlikely to be totally dark so your lighting is always in competition with the existing light. By raising ISO or increasing aperture you will be allowing more ambient to contribute to the image. The quality and/or color temp of the ambient light may be detrimental to your goals. An easy way to minimize ambient light influences is to overpower the ambient on your subject by 2, 3 or more stops with your light(s).

• John

--
"[If you don't sweat the details] the magic doesn't work." Brooks, F. P., The Mythical Man-Month, Addison-Wesley, 1975, page 8.

 

[Sailor Blue]

The replies by the other members of this group have answered your questions l but let me emphasize two parts of my original post.

1. Save your money until you can afford to buy something like the Godox AD200 or AD400 and a proper Bowens mount softbox.

Having the extra power, and a bare bulb strobe, will make your life much simpler.

2. Once you find the right exposure at a specific distance then you can use the string method to get the same exposure every time as long as your flash or strobe is overpowering the ambient lighting.

Better yet is a flash meter since it can give you the right exposure even with mixed ambient and flash lighting.

I recommend a secondhand Sekonic L-358 without a Pocket Wizard RF transmitter, a new L-308DC-U, or Sekonic L-478D. None of these have a built-in RF transmitter so they are the minimum priced Sekonic flash meters that can be calibrated.

 

[Jacques Cornell]

Hello.

I'm about to get a 120cm Octabox this week for my TT685-F.

Has anyone here tried using the same speedlight inside the octabox with white diffuser?

Did it produce a nice soft light for newborn or do you have an idea if it will?

I'm not sure if the size of the octabox is too big for the speedlight (have to use it for low power) but will it be sufficient for portraits? There's the 90cm square softbox (or 90cmx60cm rectangular one) but I might still go for the 120cm octabox because I'm considering to use it for parents with their newborn as well. or should I?

I've read so many photographers are using 50" Westcott (mega apollo) but I'm limited on my budget.

I would appreciate for any helpful feedbacks.

Thank you.

One of my go-to mods for portraits with speedlights is a 64" silver Paul C. Buff PLM umbrella ($50) with or without front diffusion ($16). Being both parabolic and silver, this thing is extremely efficient. Using the now-discontinued (and even more efficient) "extreme silver" version without diffusion, I typically dialed the power on my monolight all the way down to 15 Watt-seconds to shoot at ISO 200 and f5.6 at about 2m from the subjects when shooting singles and groups of 3-4 people. A speedlight would be at 1/4 power. The current "soft silver" version might be one stop less efficient, and the diffusion will eat about another stop. So, a speedlight would be at full power, but working at closer distances would get you back down to maybe 1/4-1/2 power.

With the diffusion, it makes a nice large, soft source. But, the really unique character of the silver PLM is that without diffusion it makes light that resembles direct sunlight on a partly cloudy day. It has a very bright, sunny feel, but if you use it in-close the relatively large size makes for softer edge transitions and helps fill in shadows. The other unique characteristic of a true parabolic is that light falloff with distance is almost nil, at least for the distances you'd expect on a photo shoot. Light intensity is almost identical at 1, 2, or even 3 meters. This is part of why it looks like direct sunlight - almost no falloff.

 

[Jacques Cornell]

The problem with speed lites is that fresnel lens on the front, it concentrates the light and thus when used with soft box's doesn't let the light fill the box in the way a bare bulb or studio head does.

I often put a Stofen Omnibounce or similar dome on my speedlight to better fill a softbox. Eats about 2/3 of a stop, but the light is definitely softer.

There are plenty of good 200 w/s bare bulb flashes out there that can be picked up relatively cheap such as the Godox AD200, coupled with an X-Pro transmitter and a reflector that's your lighting needs sorted.

The 300Ws Adorama Flashpoint Streaklight (a.k.a. Godox Witstro AD360) with power pack is available for $260. That's a lot of bang for the buck. I paid $500 for mine a few years ago.

As for soft boxes 120cm is a good size but make sure it will fit the room your shooting in with room to spare as at times your going to need to raise your light above models head height, also make sure it takes/comes with a grid, grids are near essential in smallish areas to control overspill.

Yup. Good tips there.