EM-1x - the price is not unreasonable

[erichK]

There are several things I really don't like about this new camera that may well keep me from purchasing it.

Most important is the lack of 10-bit video and a higher 4K frame rate than 25fps. 10 bit would provide significantly greater colour gradation, while at least 30 fps and sometimes even 60 are needed for the video I shoot. A higher resolution and OLED LCD would also be much better. I would also prefer a smaller and weight would be better.

The CAF systems also seems half finished. Planes, trains and automobiles? Minimal interest! S(urely, birds in flight will added someday, soon.)

BUT, when people complain loudly about the price, there are a couple of important characteristics they seem to be missing.

1) This is a cameras that is weather-sealed to a testable international specification. This is much more than a matter of adding strategic seals; it requires comprehensive attention to such chronic weak points as the battery compartment, and a whole new level of tight tolerances, attention to fit and finish and testing.

Assuring that this "weather-proofness" applies even with attachments is especially challenging, as it then requires further special attention to ports.

2) The assurance of enough power to really function - and continue to function - in such conditions of cold - the double battery is an ingenious solution.

3) Complimentary engineering for dealing with the opposite problem, heat, through an apparently novel "cooloing tunnel"

3) Its mechanical specifications, too, appear to have been considerably stepped up. Shutter mechanisms designed to function for 400,000 actuations.

4) Last, but perhaps most important, the comprehensive magnesium chassis.

All of these seem to have been missed be commenters and even mostly missed by reviewers, especially in complaints about price. Look at them closely, and then look at their similarity to cameras that sell for more than twice the price: the Nikon D5 and Canon 1D battleships (I don't think Sony has anything at quite that level, yet, especially in light of its chronic sealing problems).

I doubt that Sebastio Salgado is about t even consider taking the EM-1x into the -70C Kamchatka Pensinsula blizzards in which he kept switching from one Canon 1D to another, kept warm under his assistants parka, as they faltered. I do think that this seems to be an impressive whose engineering, and consequently field reliablilty and performance and and long-term durability approaches such benchmark behemoths.

That is an impressive feat, and does not come cheap. It may even be a bit of a bargain.

 

[jonpais]

If the camera has miserable video specs for 2019, what difference does it make if it's weather sealed or not? It's not going anywhere anyhow.

FWIW, Tony Northrup compared it to the a7 III, spraying both bodies with water and letting them freeze repeatedly and the Sony held up pretty well all things considered.

Not even 10-bit external? No full HDMI? Cropped 120fps? I wouldn't take it for free. Honest.

--
http://jonpais.wordpress.com

 

[onlyfreeman]

consider taking the EM-1x into the -70C Kamchatka Pensinsula blizzards in which he kept switching from one Canon 1D to another

Anyone that need the worlds most insane IBIS or weatherproofing etc, this camera makes complete sense, I want it too, because wow I love IBIS. (like everyone else of course)

Which is good for Olympus, because I feel this is exactly what the camera is designed for, a product that some pros and enthusiasts will want. I very much doubt they intended this to sell in huge numbers, like an entry-level DSLR.

For the rest of the world, hopefully the E-M5 III will be the camera they want.

 

[erichK]

If the camera has miserable video specs for 2019, what difference does it make if it's weather sealed or not? It's not going anywhere anyhow.

FWIW, Tony Northrup compared it to the a7 III, spraying both bodies with water and letting them freeze repeatedly and the Sony held up pretty well all things considered.

Not even 10-bit external? No full HDMI? Cropped 120fps? I wouldn't take it for free. Honest.

Having done a few dozen videos, including a dozen that included EM1ii output (I mostly shoot multi-camera) I'm really not sure that the word "miserable" is justified, Indeed, if great - rather than just quite good - video were essential for me, then I would buy a video camera, the XLR inputs and preamp, form factor, manual iris and focus and smooth zoom of which are much more appropriate for serious video production.

That said, this area is still a major disappointment, though, with colour-grading, should usable for some of the wider-area, rather than action close-up, clips.

 

[erichK]

FWIW, Tony Northrup compared it to the a7 III, spraying both bodies with water and letting them freeze repeatedly and the Sony held up pretty well all things considered.

The actual conformance to a meaningful, testable international standard means a lot more to me than Tony's tests. My E-1 still works well after many -20C shoots, and even a brief immersion, but without a standard, that doesn't mean that all E-1's would have.

 

[erichK]

consider taking the EM-1x into the -70C Kamchatka Pensinsula blizzards in which he kept switching from one Canon 1D to another

Anyone that need the worlds most insane IBIS or weatherproofing etc, this camera makes complete sense, I want it too, because wow I love IBIS. (like everyone else of course)

Which is good for Olympus, because I feel this is exactly what the camera is designed for, a product that some pros and enthusiasts will want. I very much doubt they intended this to sell in huge numbers, like an entry-level DSLR.

For the rest of the world, hopefully the E-M5 III will be the camera they want.

I find it really strange that after so many people thought that handheld IBIS would be a game-changing accomplishment, it is given so little attention and credit in reviews. How many shots have most of us missed because we didn't have a tripod, or, eve when we did, did not have the time/opportunity to set it up?

 

[HRC2016]

The reasonableness of the price is in the eye of the consumer. And we will see if consumers feel the price is worth the upgrades. Let's not forget that Oly needs to make money on this thing. It isn't a charitable organization.

Regarding your statement about the IPX rating: I'm glad Oly references this. For years, I've been saying/posting that claims of WR that do not conform to IPX standards are marketing hype that can be ignored.

 

[onlyfreeman]

Regarding your statement about the IPX rating: I'm glad Oly references this. For years, I've been saying/posting that claims of WR that do not conform to IPX standards are marketing hype that can be ignored.

Yes, many arguments on this forum about which camera has better weather sealing, but without any standards it's pointless.

The first camera with IP rating is definitely going in the right direction, however I feel that IP rating doesn't exactly suit cameras very well, something different is needed. Olympus themselves claim they tested the E-M1X in far more demanding conditions than the IP rating of the camera suggests.

 

[Brian Wadie]

consider taking the EM-1x into the -70C Kamchatka Pensinsula blizzards in which he kept switching from one Canon 1D to another

Anyone that need the worlds most insane IBIS or weatherproofing etc, this camera makes complete sense, I want it too, because wow I love IBIS. (like everyone else of course)

Which is good for Olympus, because I feel this is exactly what the camera is designed for, a product that some pros and enthusiasts will want. I very much doubt they intended this to sell in huge numbers, like an entry-level DSLR.

For the rest of the world, hopefully the E-M5 III will be the camera they want.

I find it really strange that after so many people thought that handheld IBIS would be a game-changing accomplishment, it is given so little attention and credit in reviews. How many shots have most of us missed because we didn't have a tripod, or, eve when we did, did not have the time/opportunity to set it up?

much the same as the fact that, as demanded by so many here, Olympus have finally provided a customisable menu, yet I've not seen one mention of this.

Maybe its seen as more important to concentrate on the things it doesn't do rather than what it does?

 

[tt321]

consider taking the EM-1x into the -70C Kamchatka Pensinsula blizzards in which he kept switching from one Canon 1D to another

Anyone that need the worlds most insane IBIS or weatherproofing etc, this camera makes complete sense, I want it too, because wow I love IBIS. (like everyone else of course)

Which is good for Olympus, because I feel this is exactly what the camera is designed for, a product that some pros and enthusiasts will want. I very much doubt they intended this to sell in huge numbers, like an entry-level DSLR.

For the rest of the world, hopefully the E-M5 III will be the camera they want.

I find it really strange that after so many people thought that handheld IBIS would be a game-changing accomplishment, it is given so little attention and credit in reviews. How many shots have most of us missed because we didn't have a tripod, or, eve when we did, did not have the time/opportunity to set it up?

much the same as the fact that, as demanded by so many here, Olympus have finally provided a customisable menu, yet I've not seen one mention of this.

Maybe its seen as more important to concentrate on the things it doesn't do rather than what it does?

There was a huge campaign on this forum for an mFT rangefinder style camera with built-in VF, essentially a Sony NEX-7 clone. Then came the GX7, which was especially poorly received here

Manufacturers produce things to heed the pining on these forums = acts of suicide.

 

[ToxicTabasco]

There are several things I really don't like about this new camera that may well keep me from purchasing it.

Most important is the lack of 10-bit video and a higher 4K frame rate than 25fps. 10 bit would provide significantly greater colour gradation, while at least 30 fps and sometimes even 60 are needed for the video I shoot. A higher resolution and OLED LCD would also be much better. I would also prefer a smaller and weight would be better.

The CAF systems also seems half finished. Planes, trains and automobiles? Minimal interest! S(urely, birds in flight will added someday, soon.)

BUT, when people complain loudly about the price, there are a couple of important characteristics they seem to be missing.

1) This is a cameras that is weather-sealed to a testable international specification. This is much more than a matter of adding strategic seals; it requires comprehensive attention to such chronic weak points as the battery compartment, and a whole new level of tight tolerances, attention to fit and finish and testing.

Assuring that this "weather-proofness" applies even with attachments is especially challenging, as it then requires further special attention to ports.

2) The assurance of enough power to really function - and continue to function - in such conditions of cold - the double battery is an ingenious solution.

3) Complimentary engineering for dealing with the opposite problem, heat, through an apparently novel "cooloing tunnel"

3) Its mechanical specifications, too, appear to have been considerably stepped up. Shutter mechanisms designed to function for 400,000 actuations.

4) Last, but perhaps most important, the comprehensive magnesium chassis.

All of these seem to have been missed be commenters and even mostly missed by reviewers, especially in complaints about price. Look at them closely, and then look at their similarity to cameras that sell for more than twice the price: the Nikon D5 and Canon 1D battleships (I don't think Sony has anything at quite that level, yet, especially in light of its chronic sealing problems).

I doubt that Sebastio Salgado is about t even consider taking the EM-1x into the -70C Kamchatka Pensinsula blizzards in which he kept switching from one Canon 1D to another, kept warm under his assistants parka, as they faltered. I do think that this seems to be an impressive whose engineering, and consequently field reliablilty and performance and and long-term durability approaches such benchmark behemoths.

That is an impressive feat, and does not come cheap. It may even be a bit of a bargain.

You have some great points there. Also, that IBIS for shooting on unstable platforms like boats, moving vehicles, trains, planes, and automobiles, will have a huge advantage shooting video in 4K and keep ISO down for fast shutter speeds with telephoto lenses. There's a lot of capability that the EMIx has that the "Battleships" don't, and that capability allows this camera to shoot in conditions and situations other cameras can't.

 

[Brian Wadie]

There are several things I really don't like about this new camera that may well keep me from purchasing it.

Most important is the lack of 10-bit video and a higher 4K frame rate than 25fps. 10 bit would provide significantly greater colour gradation, while at least 30 fps and sometimes even 60 are needed for the video I shoot. A higher resolution and OLED LCD would also be much better. I would also prefer a smaller and weight would be better.

The CAF systems also seems half finished. Planes, trains and automobiles? Minimal interest! S(urely, birds in flight will added someday, soon.)

BUT, when people complain loudly about the price, there are a couple of important characteristics they seem to be missing.

1) This is a cameras that is weather-sealed to a testable international specification. This is much more than a matter of adding strategic seals; it requires comprehensive attention to such chronic weak points as the battery compartment, and a whole new level of tight tolerances, attention to fit and finish and testing.

Assuring that this "weather-proofness" applies even with attachments is especially challenging, as it then requires further special attention to ports.

2) The assurance of enough power to really function - and continue to function - in such conditions of cold - the double battery is an ingenious solution.

3) Complimentary engineering for dealing with the opposite problem, heat, through an apparently novel "cooloing tunnel"

3) Its mechanical specifications, too, appear to have been considerably stepped up. Shutter mechanisms designed to function for 400,000 actuations.

4) Last, but perhaps most important, the comprehensive magnesium chassis.

All of these seem to have been missed be commenters and even mostly missed by reviewers, especially in complaints about price. Look at them closely, and then look at their similarity to cameras that sell for more than twice the price: the Nikon D5 and Canon 1D battleships (I don't think Sony has anything at quite that level, yet, especially in light of its chronic sealing problems).

I doubt that Sebastio Salgado is about t even consider taking the EM-1x into the -70C Kamchatka Pensinsula blizzards in which he kept switching from one Canon 1D to another, kept warm under his assistants parka, as they faltered. I do think that this seems to be an impressive whose engineering, and consequently field reliablilty and performance and and long-term durability approaches such benchmark behemoths.

That is an impressive feat, and does not come cheap. It may even be a bit of a bargain.

You have some great points there. Also, that IBIS for shooting on unstable platforms like boats, moving vehicles, trains, planes, and automobiles, will have a huge advantage shooting video in 4K and keep ISO down for fast shutter speeds with telephoto lenses. There's a lot of capability that the EMIx has that the "Battleships" don't, and that capability allows this camera to shoot in conditions and situations other cameras can't.

were I able to afford this it would be a natural for my wind / kite surf work off storm lashed beaches with salt, sand and seaweed flying about

As it is I will have to make do with my EM-1 mk2 + PL 100-400 and Sony RX10mk4 until such time as one or other dies and the price of the EM-1X drops a bit (I must own to having washed both under a convenient nearby drinking water tap when they got too clogged up with "gunk" during a 6 hour session in one of our "Named Storms" last year, so premature departure may yet be on the cards )

 

[jwilliams]

usability. It seems to win on the former and loose on the latter according to most reviews. Sometime you can pack a ton of great tech in a product and have a failure. Actually happens fairly often. Hopefully firmware updates fix some things, but then you still have a lack of suitable lenses.

 

[erichK]

usability. It seems to win on the former and loose on the latter according to most reviews. Sometime you can pack a ton of great tech in a product and have a failure. Actually happens fairly often. Hopefully firmware updates fix some things, but then you still have a lack of suitable lenses.

The chassis is there, as it was when the E-3 was refreshed to the - in my opinion- considerable better E-5.

Olympus certainly does not seem to have not skimped on the the most expensive aspects of what makes a truly professional camera - the magnesium shell, the shutter mechanism, the electronics, the controls, the machining tolerances, the sealing. There also appears to have been a considerable engineering - things like the cooling tunnel -and software engineering investment.

Which does makes it seem a bit silly not to have checked off a few more of the "feature" boxes - 10 bit depth, 30 and 60 fps 4K - in the video. I suspect the 30fps 4K could be aded fairly easily via firmware. Don't know whether 60 fps, or, especially, 10 bit depth could be, though.

 

[jonpais]

usability. It seems to win on the former and loose on the latter according to most reviews. Sometime you can pack a ton of great tech in a product and have a failure. Actually happens fairly often. Hopefully firmware updates fix some things, but then you still have a lack of suitable lenses.

The chassis is there, as it was when the E-3 was refreshed to the - in my opinion- considerable better E-5.

Olympus certainly does not seem to have not skimped on the the most expensive aspects of what makes a truly professional camera - the magnesium shell, the shutter mechanism, the electronics, the controls, the machining tolerances, the sealing. There also appears to have been a considerable engineering - things like the cooling tunnel -and software engineering investment.

Which does makes it seem a bit silly not to have checked off a few more of the "feature" boxes - 10 bit depth, 30 and 60 fps 4K - in the video. I suspect the 30fps 4K could be aded fairly easily via firmware. Don't know whether 60 fps, or, especially, 10 bit depth could be, though.

If a camera can only record 8-bit 4:2:0 internally, even sending it out over an external recorder and supposedly recording 10-bit, you will see little to no gain in image quality.

 

[cba_melbourne]

.......

1) This is a cameras that is weather-sealed to a testable international specification.

Is that really so?

The EM1-2 ad EM5-2 are specified in their user manuals as "equivalent to IEC IPX1 (under Olympus test conditions)". That is hardly a testable international specification.

In an EM1X review I read it is better than IPX1 (tested by Olympus to their own in-house standard that is closer to IPX3 than to IPX1).

We will see when Olympus releases the user manual. I hope it will simply state IPX1, not "equivalent to IPX1 but...". Only then it would be to a testable international specification.

This is much more than a matter of adding strategic seals; it requires comprehensive attention to such chronic weak points as the battery compartment, and a whole new level of tight tolerances, attention to fit and finish and testing.

Assuring that this "weather-proofness" applies even with attachments is especially challenging, as it then requires further special attention to ports............

Let's face it: if you swap the lens or the battery, or open the ports flap, or use a non sealed lens, you have to break the IP rated seal. The only "challenging" "further special attention" that requires, is to be aware that any water ingress due to this voids the warranty.

 

[Denjw]

"The Olympus OM-D E-M1X is a dual grip Micro Four Thirds mirrorless camera aimed at pro sports and action photographers. It's designed to be rugged, durable, fast and capable, and has a price tag to match that ambition."

But if they are to get into the big league then the AF system needs to deliver, particularly C-AF and C-AF + Tracking.

That is its most important test.

If it doesn't perform well in this area the other obstacles this camera has to overcome come more into play. Size, price, sensor.

 

[Mystic38]

I am not likely to get the em1x but i was totally "wow" ed by the specs..

simply a phenomenal camera.

 

[erichK]

usability. It seems to win on the former and loose on the latter according to most reviews. Sometime you can pack a ton of great tech in a product and have a failure. Actually happens fairly often. Hopefully firmware updates fix some things, but then you still have a lack of suitable lenses.

The chassis is there, as it was when the E-3 was refreshed to the - in my opinion- considerable better E-5.

Olympus certainly does not seem to have not skimped on the the most expensive aspects of what makes a truly professional camera - the magnesium shell, the shutter mechanism, the electronics, the controls, the machining tolerances, the sealing. There also appears to have been a considerable engineering - things like the cooling tunnel -and software engineering investment.

Which does makes it seem a bit silly not to have checked off a few more of the "feature" boxes - 10 bit depth, 30 and 60 fps 4K - in the video. I suspect the 30fps 4K could be aded fairly easily via firmware. Don't know whether 60 fps, or, especially, 10 bit depth could be, though.

If a camera can only record 8-bit 4:2:0 internally, even sending it out over an external recorder and supposedly recording 10-bit, you will see little to no gain in image quality.

Obviously, for top video IQ, you should get a GH5P or S, or whatever the special-sensor version is. And a stabilization system, and likely a cage and external recorder and display, mics and preamp....

Or, for a third the price, the GX9.

Chris Eyre-Walker makes some very compelling arguments for at least trying the EM1x for the video that I do. Quite simply, that it is really good at - keeping the shot - that is, maintaining sharp focus, and even doing so while pushing and pulling focus. Those are essential to the video that I do. And he also makes a very compelling argument for what seems to be a thought-out strategy: a really effective and flexible "run-and-gun camers"

https://youtu.be/hLrzooFyqsI

around 31:15 of this long and detailed review.

To his credit he does talk about the need to up the 4K fps rate and bit depth, and encourages people to push Olympus to do this.

 

[jonpais]

usability. It seems to win on the former and loose on the latter according to most reviews. Sometime you can pack a ton of great tech in a product and have a failure. Actually happens fairly often. Hopefully firmware updates fix some things, but then you still have a lack of suitable lenses.

The chassis is there, as it was when the E-3 was refreshed to the - in my opinion- considerable better E-5.

Olympus certainly does not seem to have not skimped on the the most expensive aspects of what makes a truly professional camera - the magnesium shell, the shutter mechanism, the electronics, the controls, the machining tolerances, the sealing. There also appears to have been a considerable engineering - things like the cooling tunnel -and software engineering investment.

Which does makes it seem a bit silly not to have checked off a few more of the "feature" boxes - 10 bit depth, 30 and 60 fps 4K - in the video. I suspect the 30fps 4K could be aded fairly easily via firmware. Don't know whether 60 fps, or, especially, 10 bit depth could be, though.

If a camera can only record 8-bit 4:2:0 internally, even sending it out over an external recorder and supposedly recording 10-bit, you will see little to no gain in image quality.

Obviously, for top video IQ, you should get a GH5P or S, or whatever the special-sensor version is. And a stabilization system, and likely a cage and external recorder and display, mics and preamp....

Or, for a third the price, the GX9.

Chris Eyre-Walker makes some very compelling arguments for at least trying the EM1x for the video that I do. Quite simply, that it is really good at - keeping the shot - that is, maintaining sharp focus, and even doing so while pushing and pulling focus. Those are essential to the video that I do. And he also makes a very compelling argument for what seems to be a thought-out strategy: a really effective and flexible "run-and-gun camers"

around 31:15 of this long and detailed review.

To his credit he does talk about the need to up the 4K fps rate and bit depth, and encourages people to push Olympus to do this.

Chris Eyre-Walker makes a false and misleading statement about Pansonic crippling the video in their mirrorless cameras for which he should make a public apology. The GH5 and GH5s will tear Olympus to shreds in video. Glad I didn’t waste much time watching the whole advert. I am sick to my stomach now after listening to such baldface lies. Johnnie Behiri, in his honest review of the E-M1X, shares an Imatest result clearly showing that there is definitely something wrong with the lower part of the log curve of the camera. Remind me never to watch that Chris fellow again!

--
http://jonpais.wordpress.com