m43 f1.2/f1.4 standard prime -vs- FF f4 zoom

But in the end, image quality is not only about MTF. And even measuring MTF doesn't give you the whole picture.

One aspect in which Olympus PRO and many other MFT lenses seem to be consistently and significantly better than their FF counterparts is vignetting. Even for "easy" lenses like the portrait prime, the difference is pretty huge. Where Olympus 45 looses just 1 stop of light at f/1.2, Canon 85L looses over 2 stops. You need to stop Canon down below f/2 to match Olympus.

And things are even more extreme for wide angle lenses. PanaLeica 12mm looses 1.5 stops wide open. Which is nothing compared to 3 to 4.5 stops for FF lenses of equivalent focal length. So much for superior light gathering.
I think you are comparing software corrected results for m43 with uncorrected results for FF. I think if you look at the native vignetting of m43 lenses they will be as bad or worse than FF in general. I know that native distortion of m43 wide angles is generally terrible. 6% or more is common, which is a huge amount of distortion. This often results in soft corners when correction is applied.

So, if you compare correctly, it is a very different story. Also I know for Canon that the camera can correct JPGs just as m43 does. My Canon camera allows corrections for vignetting, distortion, chromatic aberration and diffraction. Software correction is not just in the realm of m43 any more.

--
Jonathan
 
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Do we need to start parenting people here? "Billyboy, say thanks to the nice gentleman!" (Personally I might just press "Like", and not always say thanks.)

So, I'm not sure if its considered part of IQ, but to me it seems.. I'm just wondering based on what seems to be suggested here sometimes, do I get similar subject separation / bokeh, with FF f/4 as with "equivalent" M43, like f/2? (I'm a beginner, and don't remember right now.)
 
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One aspect in which Olympus PRO and many other MFT lenses seem to be consistently and significantly better than their FF counterparts is vignetting. Even for "easy" lenses like the portrait prime, the difference is pretty huge. Where Olympus 45 looses just 1 stop of light at f/1.2, Canon 85L looses over 2 stops. You need to stop Canon down below f/2 to match Olympus.

And things are even more extreme for wide angle lenses. PanaLeica 12mm looses 1.5 stops wide open. Which is nothing compared to 3 to 4.5 stops for FF lenses of equivalent focal length. So much for superior light gathering.
I think you are comparing software corrected results for m43 with uncorrected results for FF.
No, I am not.
I think if you look at the native vignetting of m43 lenses they will be as bad or worse than FF in general.
Since I made my own lens correction profile for PL 12 to be used with Darktable, I can at least confirm that what Lenstip measured matches what I got. So no, your guess is not correct.
I know that native distortion of m43 wide angles is generally terrible. 6% or more is common, which is a huge amount of distortion. This often results in soft corners when correction is applied.
What do you mean by often and by soft? Because I am pretty sure I could post corrected and uncorrected corner crops from my 12-100 for example and you will not be able to tell the difference. Althought I am sure you could measure the difference.
So, if you compare correctly, it is a very different story.
I am, and it isn’t. But if you have a different idea of what comparing correctly is, I’m opened for duscussion. For me, the „correct” way to compare is to look at uncorrected raw files.
 
Do we need to start parenting people here? "Billy, say thanks to the nice gentleman!" (Personally I might just press "Like", and not always say thanks.)

So, I'm not sure if its considered part of IQ, but to me it seems.. I'm just wondering based on what seems to be suggested here sometimes, do I get similar subject separation / bokeh, with FF f/4 as with "equivalent" M43, like f/2? (I'm a beginner, and don't remember right now.)
I don't think that John needs to be making any apologies. It's an easy thing to do, to confuse data and software, if you're not familiar with these things.
 

the 24-70/4.0 is certainly decent, but there are so many 2.8/24-70 zoom lenses that don't perform well on high resolution sensors wide open

I have a Sony Full Frame mirrorless camera, the FE 2.8/24-70 is decent but not really sharp at F2.8 near the edges and it's big, heavy and expensive

the FE 4/24-70 isn't good near the edges at F4 either

The Canon 4/24-70 is a DSLR lens, needs an adapter for mirrorless cameras
 
The Canon 1.4/35 II is a DSLR lens, it's 760g and 105.5mm and needs an adapter for mirrorless. It's far from perfect at F1.4 or F2.0


The Nikon Z 1.8/35S ? it "seems" ? have you had the opportunity to test it thoroughly?

The whole Nikon Z system is so new, I doubt there's a test of this lens anywhere up to now.

I had this lens on a Nikon Z7 at Photokina in Cologne, it's certainly well made (but a lot of plastics), but the AF was slow on the Z7, I'd guess the AF took three times the time of a modern mFT premium prime on a E-M1.2 oder G9 ....
 
One aspect in which Olympus PRO and many other MFT lenses seem to be consistently and significantly better than their FF counterparts is vignetting. Even for "easy" lenses like the portrait prime, the difference is pretty huge. Where Olympus 45 looses just 1 stop of light at f/1.2, Canon 85L looses over 2 stops. You need to stop Canon down below f/2 to match Olympus.

And things are even more extreme for wide angle lenses. PanaLeica 12mm looses 1.5 stops wide open. Which is nothing compared to 3 to 4.5 stops for FF lenses of equivalent focal length. So much for superior light gathering.
I think you are comparing software corrected results for m43 with uncorrected results for FF.
No, I am not.
I think if you look at the native vignetting of m43 lenses they will be as bad or worse than FF in general.
Since I made my own lens correction profile for PL 12 to be used with Darktable, I can at least confirm that what Lenstip measured matches what I got. So no, your guess is not correct.
I know that native distortion of m43 wide angles is generally terrible. 6% or more is common, which is a huge amount of distortion. This often results in soft corners when correction is applied.
What do you mean by often and by soft? Because I am pretty sure I could post corrected and uncorrected corner crops from my 12-100 for example and you will not be able to tell the difference. Althought I am sure you could measure the difference.
That may well be the case with that specific lens but it is most certainly not the case with the 7-14mm pro or 12-40mm pro or many other m43 lenses

So, if you compare correctly, it is a very different story.
I am, and it isn’t. But if you have a different idea of what comparing correctly is, I’m opened for duscussion. For me, the „correct” way to compare is to look at uncorrected raw files.
A FF lens truly equivalent to the Panasonic 12mm F/1.4 is a 24mm F/2.8 , a FF 24mm F/1.4 is equivalent to a m43 12mm F/0.7. But lest ignore that for a second, wide angle mirrorless lenses , tend to apply more software corrections than less wide lenses. Whilst Sony applies some,notably vignette correction where they sometimes let it go very high, which I complain about in the Sony forum, with much the same response I get from the diehards here :-) with regard to distortion and the like no one is correcting on the scale of m43 .

Here is the Panasonic 12mm F/1.4 compared corrected and uncorrected at F/1.4 vs the new Sony 24mm F/1.4 also at F/1.4 . Using RAW samples from DPreview sample galleries

12mm F/1.4 the bright area highlighted in this corner crop is the are sacrificed to software.



fa58b484ddef4423ac23f45c2bd665c7.jpg

Sony 24mm F/1.4 at F/1.4 corner crop of corrected and uncorrected



c8f954df8d5645c490e81bdf537d4e71.jpg







--
Jim Stirling
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” John Adams
 
But the question was about m43 prime vs. FF zoom. I think that's a much more interesting question.
Thank you for many useful responses. Yes, as Mark mentioned, while there are many beneficial discussions, I am a bit more interested in IQ opinion on m43 f1.2/1.4 prime -vs- FF f4 zoom..

As far as I read, in good light condition, FF may give cleaner IQ if it can shoot at base ISO 100 (or 64 in some FF models)..
That is wrong if you are comparing at the same final output and detail size you can shoot multiple stops higher than base ISO on FF compared to m43. The FF camera will give you cleaner images at every ISO you care to use on both cameras

E-M1 II 200 ISO no extra adjustments beyond what is baked into the RAW file opened at ACR defaults vs A 3200 ISO A7rIII file , added some NR and output to same size as E-M1II . The files are freely available from DPreview and you can do the same yourself though the usual gang will still complain about it :-)

Extreme 200% comparisons !

2cde1938b82f4337a9da4edb677a1734.jpg

In the end I think that the pro and cons of all current systems are pretty well known . The only certainty is that none are perfect and it boils down to which comprises you will accept

--
Jim Stirling
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” John Adams
 
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One aspect in which Olympus PRO and many other MFT lenses seem to be consistently and significantly better than their FF counterparts is vignetting. Even for "easy" lenses like the portrait prime, the difference is pretty huge. Where Olympus 45 looses just 1 stop of light at f/1.2, Canon 85L looses over 2 stops. You need to stop Canon down below f/2 to match Olympus.

And things are even more extreme for wide angle lenses. PanaLeica 12mm looses 1.5 stops wide open. Which is nothing compared to 3 to 4.5 stops for FF lenses of equivalent focal length. So much for superior light gathering.
I think you are comparing software corrected results for m43 with uncorrected results for FF.
No, I am not.
I think if you look at the native vignetting of m43 lenses they will be as bad or worse than FF in general.
Since I made my own lens correction profile for PL 12 to be used with Darktable, I can at least confirm that what Lenstip measured matches what I got. So no, your guess is not correct.
I know that native distortion of m43 wide angles is generally terrible. 6% or more is common, which is a huge amount of distortion. This often results in soft corners when correction is applied.
What do you mean by often and by soft? Because I am pretty sure I could post corrected and uncorrected corner crops from my 12-100 for example and you will not be able to tell the difference. Althought I am sure you could measure the difference.
That may well be the case with that specific lens but it is most certainly not the case with the 7-14mm pro or 12-40mm pro or many other m43 lenses
So, if you compare correctly, it is a very different story.
I am, and it isn’t. But if you have a different idea of what comparing correctly is, I’m opened for duscussion. For me, the „correct” way to compare is to look at uncorrected raw files.
A FF lens truly equivalent to the Panasonic 12mm F/1.4 is a 24mm F/2.8 , a FF 24mm F/1.4 is equivalent to a m43 12mm F/0.7. But lest ignore that for a second, wide angle mirrorless lenses , tend to apply more software corrections than less wide lenses. Whilst Sony applies some,notably vignette correction where they sometimes let it go very high, which I complain about in the Sony forum, with much the same response I get from the diehards here :-) with regard to distortion and the like no one is correcting on the scale of m43 .

Here is the Panasonic 12mm F/1.4 compared corrected and uncorrected at F/1.4 vs the new Sony 24mm F/1.4 also at F/1.4 . Using RAW samples from DPreview sample galleries

12mm F/1.4 the bright area highlighted in this corner crop is the are sacrificed to software.

fa58b484ddef4423ac23f45c2bd665c7.jpg

Sony 24mm F/1.4 at F/1.4 corner crop of corrected and uncorrected

c8f954df8d5645c490e81bdf537d4e71.jpg
In the end there is no perfect system ,no perfect camera there are always compromises and in the end we only have to please one person ourselves

--
Jim Stirling
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” John Adams
 
I know that native distortion of m43 wide angles is generally terrible. 6% or more is common, which is a huge amount of distortion. This often results in soft corners when correction is applied.
What do you mean by often and by soft? Because I am pretty sure I could post corrected and uncorrected corner crops from my 12-100 for example and you will not be able to tell the difference. Althought I am sure you could measure the difference.
That may well be the case with that specific lens but it is most certainly not the case with the 7-14mm pro or 12-40mm pro or many other m43 lenses
No, they are all in the same ballpark, which is more than 6%. The 7-14 at 7 mm is the most extreme example, as it has probably one of the highest distortions among MFT lenses, at a whooping 8%. That's even more than Canon's 11-24 mm f/4L with its 7.3%.
So, if you compare correctly, it is a very different story.
I am, and it isn’t. But if you have a different idea of what comparing correctly is, I’m opened for duscussion. For me, the „correct” way to compare is to look at uncorrected raw files.
A FF lens truly equivalent to the Panasonic 12mm F/1.4 is a 24mm F/2.8
There are very little lenses like that. But the ones that do exist are equally bad or even worse than their f/1.4 cousins. Samyang 24mm f/2.8 even at F8 looses more light than PL 12 wide open. Canon 24mm f/2.8 is a lot better, it matches wide open PanaLeica already at f/4. A similar story with Batis 25mm f/2. All of them are noticeably worse at f/2.8.
, a FF 24mm F/1.4 is equivalent to a m43 12mm F/0.7. But lest ignore that for a second, wide angle mirrorless lenses , tend to apply more software corrections than less wide lenses.
That's understandable and is true for all lenses from all brands and systems. The wider the lens, the harder it is to correct it optically. Same goes for zooms, especially ones with high zoom ratios.

And while I can understand complaints about prime lenses showing serious geometric distortion, the same complaints about UWA zooms seem a bit iffy. Because distortion in the 4-6% range is normal for lenses like that, regardless of the system, format or who makes them. There are not many UWA zooms that do not show significant distortion at the wide end.
Whilst Sony applies some,notably vignette correction where they sometimes let it go very high, which I complain about in the Sony forum, with much the same response I get from the diehards here :-) with regard to distortion and the like no one is correcting on the scale of m43 .
That's true. But what practical effect does it have on image quality?

The complaint is that it makes corners soft. But I never saw that demonstrated and my experiments do not support this claim either. I'm sure you can measure it using a test chart, but I'm equally sure you could not tell them apart visually on an actual photo. A "natural" corner softness will still be the dominant factor here.

And if you gave me a choice between the two, I'll take distortion over vignetting. The hardware pinhole effect is cute and all, but gets very old very fast. And raising corners by 3 or 4 stops when doing astro for example, has much more dramatic negative impact on final image than correcting 6% barrel distortion.
Here is the Panasonic 12mm F/1.4 compared corrected and uncorrected at F/1.4 vs the new Sony 24mm F/1.4 also at F/1.4 . Using RAW samples from DPreview sample galleries

12mm F/1.4 the bright area highlighted in this corner crop is the are sacrificed to software.

Sony 24mm F/1.4 at F/1.4 corner crop of corrected and uncorrected
I appreciate the illustrations, but even your example does not show corner softening. At least I cannot see it there.

Also, the degree of "loss" depends on what software you use. Here's my demonstration .
 
I know that native distortion of m43 wide angles is generally terrible. 6% or more is common, which is a huge amount of distortion. This often results in soft corners when correction is applied.
What do you mean by often and by soft? Because I am pretty sure I could post corrected and uncorrected corner crops from my 12-100 for example and you will not be able to tell the difference. Althought I am sure you could measure the difference.
That may well be the case with that specific lens but it is most certainly not the case with the 7-14mm pro or 12-40mm pro or many other m43 lenses
No, they are all in the same ballpark, which is more than 6%. The 7-14 at 7 mm is the most extreme example, as it has probably one of the highest distortions among MFT lenses, at a whooping 8%. That's even more than Canon's 11-24 mm f/4L with its 7.3%.
The Canon is a wider lens designed for a sensor with four times the area . I am not sure where you are getting your numbers from the Canon has a peak distortion level of F/4.6


While the Olympus is at 7.2% uncorrected

So, if you compare correctly, it is a very different story.
I am, and it isn’t. But if you have a different idea of what comparing correctly is, I’m opened for duscussion. For me, the „correct” way to compare is to look at uncorrected raw files.
A FF lens truly equivalent to the Panasonic 12mm F/1.4 is a 24mm F/2.8
There are very little lenses like that. But the ones that do exist are equally bad or even worse than their f/1.4 cousins. Samyang 24mm f/2.8 even at F8 looses more light than PL 12 wide open. Canon 24mm f/2.8 is a lot better, it matches wide open PanaLeica already at f/4. A similar story with Batis 25mm f/2. All of them are noticeably worse at f/2.8.
Batis 25mm which I own :-)


12mm F/1.4

, a FF 24mm F/1.4 is equivalent to a m43 12mm F/0.7. But lest ignore that for a second, wide angle mirrorless lenses , tend to apply more software corrections than less wide lenses.
That's understandable and is true for all lenses from all brands and systems. The wider the lens, the harder it is to correct it optically. Same goes for zooms, especially ones with high zoom ratios.

And while I can understand complaints about prime lenses showing serious geometric distortion, the same complaints about UWA zooms seem a bit iffy. Because distortion in the 4-6% range is normal for lenses like that, regardless of the system, format or who makes them. There are not many UWA zooms that do not show significant distortion at the wide end.
Whilst Sony applies some,notably vignette correction where they sometimes let it go very high, which I complain about in the Sony forum, with much the same response I get from the diehards here :-) with regard to distortion and the like no one is correcting on the scale of m43 .
That's true. But what practical effect does it have on image quality?
I think that software corrections always have some impact on image quality , it may be minor it may not . The main issue admittedly largely unimportant on Sony FF sensors is a small increase in noise at the corners of the corrected image
The complaint is that it makes corners soft. But I never saw that demonstrated and my experiments do not support this claim either. I'm sure you can measure it using a test chart, but I'm equally sure you could not tell them apart visually on an actual photo. A "natural" corner softness will still be the dominant factor here.

And if you gave me a choice between the two, I'll take distortion over vignetting. The hardware pinhole effect is cute and all, but gets very old very fast. And raising corners by 3 or 4 stops when doing astro for example, has much more dramatic negative impact on final image than correcting 6% barrel distortion.
That would be for two reasons one the distortion results in a good chunk of the image being chopped off and then resized back to the expected output size. The lens being somewhat wider than stated . And secondly on m43 the noise penalty form vignette correcting on m43 is higher
Here is the Panasonic 12mm F/1.4 compared corrected and uncorrected at F/1.4 vs the new Sony 24mm F/1.4 also at F/1.4 . Using RAW samples from DPreview sample galleries

12mm F/1.4 the bright area highlighted in this corner crop is the are sacrificed to software.

Sony 24mm F/1.4 at F/1.4 corner crop of corrected and uncorrected
I appreciate the illustrations, but even your example does not show corner softening. At least I cannot see it there.

Also, the degree of "loss" depends on what software you use. Here's my demonstration .
Sure you can get a somewhat wider FOV on some RAW convertors but there are good reasons why these areas are removed, The portion designed to be sacrificed to the correction is very soft on the 12mm F/1.4 shot.

I know that the lenses are specifically designed with these corrections in mind , and obviously as a m43 and Sony user I have gear that uses it. I still rally against it in both forums , and I do get the same responses :-) Namely the final image is what matters
 
May I ask someone who use 2 systems.

In your opinion which one has better IQ in general (shooting people, nature, and things).

m43 excellent standard prime (f1.2-f1.4) =vs= FF f4 zoom (24-70/f4 or 24/105/f4).

I am not asking for spec sheet nor mathematic calculation nor flexibility/portability, but asking for the general IQ opinion to real users of both systems.

Thank you very much..
I mostly shoot with FF and also have a E-M 10 II, image quality is lens dependent, not every lens with same max aperture is created equally, so all depends on the specific lens.

In my case, I use large aperture lens mainly for isolation and bokeh not for light gathering, F1.2 lens in MFT is about F2.5 in FF as far as DOF 's concern. that alone MFT will not be my choice for portrait lens, even a cheap 85 1,8 will work better for than a expensive 45 1,2, not to mention there is no FF 1.2 /1.4 primes equivalent in MFT even i am willing to pay for one, , that's on top of the noise level, shadow recovery capability difference between the MFT and FF. with that said, at the end, FF give me much better end result. better background isolation and cleaning image, and that is "image quality" in my eyes.
 
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Modern FF f4 zooms can easily outresolve 24MP sensor... so they are actually sharper than m43 prime mounted on 16-20MP body.
I'm still waiting for the day when someone accompanies such statement with illustrative proof in the form of actual photos.
Here's the imatest result of excellent canon 35mm f1.4L lens on EOS 7D2(20MP body).

You see the center resolution reaches its maximum at f2.8, around 3400.

738eca556b464fb5afe10d8ed92f6ee7.jpg

This one's Nikon's cheap superzoom, 24-120 f4 VR. It was tested on D3x, a 24MP FF body. See?

ad7c4905253042c0997db9fe6f53cd7b.jpg

You see the center resolution of this lens EXCEEDS the maximum value attainable from 20MP body.



Same thing happens with 20MP m43 body and 24MP FF bodies. However good a lens may be, the SYSTEM resolution is limited by the sensor resolution. And modern f4 lenses are very sharp.
 
Imaging Resource blur units are based on DxO data for lenses, per Bill Claff, IIRC.
Slightly wrong. They aren't based on DxO data, they are based on DxO image analysis software, which IR uses to create it's own data. What you said is like saying that your raw converter is responsible for your photos. More's to the point, the DxO invented metric they use, 'BxU', is one that DxO has abandoned for it's own use some time ago. It looked like a clever idea at the time, but clearly, it has big problems. DxO replaced it with the 'perceptual megapixel', another metric I'm no big fan of.

Bill Claff, for the main part uses his own data (or data his collaborators, self included, collect for him) as well as his own software. He does have some 'DxO derived' data on his site, but when it is, it is clearly indicated to be so.
Yes; as you say a DxO Labs invention.
And yes; at PhotonsToPhotos the first section are measurements performed specifically for the site, and the second section are measurements regurgitated from underlying DxOMark data (not unlike sensorgen).

Regards
 
I know that native distortion of m43 wide angles is generally terrible. 6% or more is common, which is a huge amount of distortion. This often results in soft corners when correction is applied.
What do you mean by often and by soft? Because I am pretty sure I could post corrected and uncorrected corner crops from my 12-100 for example and you will not be able to tell the difference. Althought I am sure you could measure the difference.
That may well be the case with that specific lens but it is most certainly not the case with the 7-14mm pro or 12-40mm pro or many other m43 lenses
No, they are all in the same ballpark, which is more than 6%. The 7-14 at 7 mm is the most extreme example, as it has probably one of the highest distortions among MFT lenses, at a whooping 8%. That's even more than Canon's 11-24 mm f/4L with its 7.3%.
The Canon is a wider lens designed for a sensor with four times the area.
Yes, and that illustrates my point about distortion and ultra wide lenses. The wider the lens, the higher distortion you should expect. MFT or not.
I am not sure where you are getting your numbers from
Lenstip.
the Canon has a peak distortion level of F/4.6

http://www.opticallimits.com/canon_eos_ff/940-canon1124f4?start=1

While the Olympus is at 7.2% uncorrected

http://www.opticallimits.com/m43/961_olympus714f28pro?start=1
A FF lens truly equivalent to the Panasonic 12mm F/1.4 is a 24mm F/2.8
There are very little lenses like that. But the ones that do exist are equally bad or even worse than their f/1.4 cousins. Samyang 24mm f/2.8 even at F8 looses more light than PL 12 wide open. Canon 24mm f/2.8 is a lot better, it matches wide open PanaLeica already at f/4. A similar story with Batis 25mm f/2. All of them are noticeably worse at f/2.8.
Batis 25mm which I own :-)

https://www.lenstip.com/485.6-Lens_review-Carl_Zeiss_Batis_25_mm_f_2_Distortion.html

12mm F/1.4

https://www.lenstip.com/505.6-Lens_..._DG_Summilux_12_mm_f_1.4_ASPH_Distortion.html
But what does distortion have to do with vignetting?
, a FF 24mm F/1.4 is equivalent to a m43 12mm F/0.7. But lest ignore that for a second, wide angle mirrorless lenses , tend to apply more software corrections than less wide lenses.
That's understandable and is true for all lenses from all brands and systems. The wider the lens, the harder it is to correct it optically. Same goes for zooms, especially ones with high zoom ratios.

And while I can understand complaints about prime lenses showing serious geometric distortion, the same complaints about UWA zooms seem a bit iffy. Because distortion in the 4-6% range is normal for lenses like that, regardless of the system, format or who makes them. There are not many UWA zooms that do not show significant distortion at the wide end.
Whilst Sony applies some,notably vignette correction where they sometimes let it go very high, which I complain about in the Sony forum, with much the same response I get from the diehards here :-) with regard to distortion and the like no one is correcting on the scale of m43 .
That's true. But what practical effect does it have on image quality?
I think that software corrections always have some impact on image quality , it may be minor it may not . The main issue admittedly largely unimportant on Sony FF sensors is a small increase in noise at the corners of the corrected image
If you need to raise corners by 3-4 stops, that noise increase will be all but small. And that has other nasty implications. Properly applying noise reduction to such an image now require some masking. And having to apply much stronger NR to the corners will probably have more impact on their sharpness than doing distortion correction.

Of course, not all FF lenses are as bad (it's usually the small ones and wide angles). But even fairly "easy" focal lengths like 50 or 85 mm usually show well over 2 stops of light loss wide open. Of course, it's not a biggie if your photography does not require even illumination.
The complaint is that it makes corners soft. But I never saw that demonstrated and my experiments do not support this claim either. I'm sure you can measure it using a test chart, but I'm equally sure you could not tell them apart visually on an actual photo. A "natural" corner softness will still be the dominant factor here.

And if you gave me a choice between the two, I'll take distortion over vignetting. The hardware pinhole effect is cute and all, but gets very old very fast. And raising corners by 3 or 4 stops when doing astro for example, has much more dramatic negative impact on final image than correcting 6% barrel distortion.
That would be for two reasons one the distortion results in a good chunk of the image being chopped off and then resized back to the expected output size.
The difference is about the same as a difference between a photo taken with a 18mp sensor and a 20 mp sensor. Which is basically completely insignificant in any practical sense. I'm still waiting for someone to prove me wrong on this.

The only significant loss of image quality resulting from distortion correction is when I'm doing defishing, like this .
The lens being somewhat wider than stated . And secondly on m43 the noise penalty form vignette correcting on m43 is higher
??? How is penalty from correcting 1.5 stops of vignetting higher than from correcting 3 or 4 stops? It's the exact opposite.
Here is the Panasonic 12mm F/1.4 compared corrected and uncorrected at F/1.4 vs the new Sony 24mm F/1.4 also at F/1.4 . Using RAW samples from DPreview sample galleries

12mm F/1.4 the bright area highlighted in this corner crop is the are sacrificed to software.

Sony 24mm F/1.4 at F/1.4 corner crop of corrected and uncorrected
I appreciate the illustrations, but even your example does not show corner softening. At least I cannot see it there.

Also, the degree of "loss" depends on what software you use. Here's my demonstration .
Sure you can get a somewhat wider FOV on some RAW convertors but there are good reasons why these areas are removed, The portion designed to be sacrificed to the correction is very soft on the 12mm F/1.4 shot.
You mean wide open or what? Coz I certainly don't see anything out of the ordinary in those areas.
I know that the lenses are specifically designed with these corrections in mind , and obviously as a m43 and Sony user I have gear that uses it. I still rally against it in both forums , and I do get the same responses :-) Namely the final image is what matters
What matters to you, then?
 
The Canon is a wider lens designed for a sensor with four times the area.
Yes, and that illustrates my point about distortion and ultra wide lenses. The wider the lens, the higher distortion you should expect. MFT or not.
Obviously image circle has some bearing on it, or phone lenses would be totally unusable.
 
m43 25mm f/1.4, obviously. Where are you gonna find a FF zoom lens with f/4 maximum aperture that has very high sharpness like the 25mm lens?
Pretty much anywhere

According to Opticallimits peak sharpness on the Pana 25 1.4 does about 2800 lw/ph wide open. Most FF F/4 zooms do anywhere from 3000-5000 wide open at 50mm depending on what sensor they are on. FF 2.8 zooms do even better. For example the new Sigma 24-70 ART does 4300 @ 50mm 2.8. So if you can live with the weight (I personally can't) a FF zoom can easily replace an MFT prime on the basis of sharpness.
 
m43 25mm f/1.4, obviously. Where are you gonna find a FF zoom lens with f/4 maximum aperture that has very high sharpness like the 25mm lens?
Pretty much anywhere

According to Opticallimits peak sharpness on the Pana 25 1.4 does about 2800 lw/ph wide open. Most FF F/4 zooms do anywhere from 3000-5000 wide open at 50mm depending on what sensor they are on.
You cannot compare their results across different formats, or even camera models. There's a very good reason why they warn their readers about doing just that. You get garbage conclusions if you do.
 
The Canon is a wider lens designed for a sensor with four times the area.
Yes, and that illustrates my point about distortion and ultra wide lenses. The wider the lens, the higher distortion you should expect. MFT or not.
Obviously image circle has some bearing on it, or phone lenses would be totally unusable.
Fundamentally, lenses are designed for angle of view, not focal length. Getting the required focal length for a given sensor is a matter of scaling, though production processes tend not to scale, so a phone lens is likely to use completely different design just because such a small lens can be manufactured in a completely different way to large ones.
 

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