How and how much to charge for Sport/Action photography?

[Batdude]

Hi folks this is my first time posting in this thread.

I do fitness action photography and just started my business recently. I'm In a situation right now where a fitness corporation known world wide is asking me to photograph specific fitness athletes for them and they are asking for 10 photos a month and driving/flying traveling will be involved. Just to give you an idea the photos look kind of like Les Mills, sort of.

My photos are going to be used world wide for their advertisement marketing purposes. My photos will be used for posters, flyers, magazines and social media display. Personally I have no clue on how much to charge this people and I really don't know what kind of paperwork/contracts I should know about so that I get paid accordingly and in a fair way.

Does anybody here know what "procedure" or legal paperwork stuff I should know about regarding photo rights for situations like this and should I be getting a lawyer? Any input will be appreciated.

The company doesn't want my logo on the photos and they want the rights so how much does something like this cost?

I'm sorry for asking such complicated info here but I honestly don't know who to turn to. Maybe I should go to a local photography/art college and maybe they know stuff like this? The reason why I'm asking here is because I saw the "Sports and Action Photography" thread here which I wasn't aware of it.

Thank you

 

[wasserball]

Depends on how many you intend to sell. Maxprep, before I quit shooting for them they charged $40 for the electronic copy. Usually $8-10 for prints. I have never heard of a sports photographer telling me he because rich selling photos. Most do it for the enjoyment.

I sold 10 electronic copies to a local chicken franchise business for $15 each, only because I want my photos on display rather than trying to make some money.

Most of the time the action shots are not worth anything. I give the high resolution (not full resolution) away for free in my facebook pages.

Input to your camera to include the copyright in the photos. Also, I put a watermark in some of the photos I display in facebook because I want to track where my photos are used.

 

[Batdude]

Depends on how many you intend to sell. Maxprep, before I quit shooting for them they charged $40 for the electronic copy. Usually $8-10 for prints. I have never heard of a sports photographer telling me he because rich selling photos. Most do it for the enjoyment.

I sold 10 electronic copies to a local chicken franchise business for $15 each, only because I want my photos on display rather than trying to make some money.

Most of the time the action shots are not worth anything. I give the high resolution (not full resolution) away for free in my facebook pages.

Input to your camera to include the copyright in the photos. Also, I put a watermark in some of the photos I display in facebook because I want to track where my photos are used.

The employer is requesting 10 photos a month. I’m not sure what kind of company you worked for but there is no way I’m going to work and travel for $40 per photo no matter how much I like photography

 

[John_A_G]

Hi folks this is my first time posting in this thread.

I do fitness action photography and just started my business recently.

Everything else depends on what your business goals are. Is this business a side hussle where you'll be glad to earn $5,000 - $10,000 a year? Or is it intended to be the primary source of your living wage? If it's a side hussle, you may agree to a job because you enjoy doing it and your ego gets a boost from being published. There is nothing wrong with that. But, if this business is intended to be your primary source of income you have to determine whether assignments/clients are good for the bottom line. It's one thing to take on a client in the short term with poor profit - it's another to lock into a long term contract with poor profit that could prevent you from taking other clients.

I'm hopeful this is just a side hussle job. Otherwise, you're in real trouble if you're asking these questions and plan to earn a living from your business.

I'm In a situation right now where a fitness corporation known world wide is asking me to photograph specific fitness athletes for them and they are asking for 10 photos a month and driving/flying traveling will be involved. Just to give you an idea the photos look kind of like Les Mills, sort of.

First, let me skip to the important part. You absolutely should have a contract. That contract should be created by an attorney.

So, you have travel every month to produce the 10 images. Travel expenses should be a completely seaparate part of the contract. You need complete reimbursement for all travel expenses and your rate should reflect time away.

You'll have to negotiate about insurance and liability. Do they supply it or are you required to? Your homeowners aint gonna cover things when you're on paid assignment. Not just your gear being damaged but someone tripping over you and getting hurt. When you're somewhere as a fan - no big deal. When you're working, now it's a target for a lawsuit. You need to understand whether you are covered by their liability or whether you need your own. If you need your own, you better make sure you factor that cost in to your rate.

You mention10 photos but you don't say what the time commitment is. Photographers are a dime a dozen now - so it's not like you're going to produce 10 photos that have the world buzzing. So, you need to think of this as a service - it's about your time and expenses, not the 10 images.

My photos are going to be used world wide for their advertisement marketing purposes. My photos will be used for posters, flyers, magazines and social media display. Personally I have no clue on how much to charge this people and I really don't know what kind of paperwork/contracts I should know about so that I get paid accordingly and in a fair way.

Does anybody here know what "procedure" or legal paperwork stuff I should know about regarding photo rights for situations like this and should I be getting a lawyer? Any input will be appreciated.

The company doesn't want my logo on the photos and they want the rights so how much does something like this cost?

20 years ago, professional photographers would be screaming - NO, never give up the rights. A lot has changed in 20 years, and I suspect many such photographers are no longer earning a living wage doing things the way they used to be done.

Based on your business goals you need to calculate all your expenses and make sure that, beyond 100% of your travel expenses and insurance and other equipment expenses there are that you are getting a pre-tax profit that meets your business goals.

There used to be guidelines for "going rate" for this type of photography. That was before the market was flooded with tens of thousands of amateur photographers with side hussle jobs or even existing employees who are just handed cameras. So, rather than quoting an old formula that says you should get paid $3,000 a month plus travel for 10 photos of unlimited use I suggest you figure out what rate works for your business goals and if what they are willing to pay is below that, you move on. Be prepared though - this isn't 20 years ago.

I'm sorry for asking such complicated info here but I honestly don't know who to turn to. Maybe I should go to a local photography/art college and maybe they know stuff like this? The reason why I'm asking here is because I saw the "Sports and Action Photography" thread here which I wasn't aware of it.

Thank you

 

[ZurichPhoto]

I'm a photographer - but part of my day job that actually puts food on the table, requires me to hire photographers to shoot campaigns for a major corporation. You'd recognize some of the photographers as well as the company.

One of the most common questions I get from photographers before we begin a campaign -- even from those at the very top of the photography pyramid is -- "What's your photography budget?"

I've been around long enough where I'm not disclosing that information-- but the photographer often asks to see if ... a) they have any interest in engaging b) and .. who knows ... their rates may be flexible (up or down) depending the nature of the work.

It really is ok to ask that question. You would be surprised how often people will tell you. You may also find that it's incredibly small and not worth your while. Adjust accordingly.

In my perfect world, where I am looking to maximize profits for my company, I would only hire photographers who would give full, unlimited rights at a reasonable price. But the more established the photographer the less likely they are to give away rights. Many/most will walk away even from very large projects over this issue. Or they simply quote a purposely outlandish buyout rate, often more to make a point than in expectation of a sale.

Time and market conditions have not changed this for those at the very top of the heap. Rights are king.

Those who are working their way up may choose to use "rights" (more for less) as a competitive advantage. But everyone has to find a business model that works for them.

 

[scokill]

Hi folks this is my first time posting in this thread.

I do fitness action photography and just started my business recently. I'm In a situation right now where a fitness corporation known world wide is asking me to photograph specific fitness athletes for them and they are asking for 10 photos a month and driving/flying traveling will be involved. Just to give you an idea the photos look kind of like Les Mills, sort of.

My photos are going to be used world wide for their advertisement marketing purposes. My photos will be used for posters, flyers, magazines and social media display. Personally I have no clue on how much to charge this people and I really don't know what kind of paperwork/contracts I should know about so that I get paid accordingly and in a fair way.

Does anybody here know what "procedure" or legal paperwork stuff I should know about regarding photo rights for situations like this and should I be getting a lawyer? Any input will be appreciated.

The company doesn't want my logo on the photos and they want the rights so how much does something like this cost?

I'm sorry for asking such complicated info here but I honestly don't know who to turn to. Maybe I should go to a local photography/art college and maybe they know stuff like this? The reason why I'm asking here is because I saw the "Sports and Action Photography" thread here which I wasn't aware of it.

Thank you

If it's 10 photos in one day than i would come up with a day rate. If you have to take photos over the course of the month I would have a minimum fee/event and time spent up to your day rate. I personally wouldn't spend all day for a commercial venture for less than $1,000/day and wouldn't step foot out of the house for less than $250 min for a couple of local hours. This would be in addition to mileage and travel cost reimbursement.

I don't know if this is way off going rate but that's just me.

 

[Batdude]

Hi folks this is my first time posting in this thread.

I do fitness action photography and just started my business recently.

Everything else depends on what your business goals are. Is this business a side hussle where you'll be glad to earn $5,000 - $10,000 a year? Or is it intended to be the primary source of your living wage? If it's a side hussle, you may agree to a job because you enjoy doing it and your ego gets a boost from being published. There is nothing wrong with that. But, if this business is intended to be your primary source of income you have to determine whether assignments/clients are good for the bottom line. It's one thing to take on a client in the short term with poor profit - it's another to lock into a long term contract with poor profit that could prevent you from taking other clients.

I'm hopeful this is just a side hussle job. Otherwise, you're in real trouble if you're asking these questions and plan to earn a living from your business.

I'm In a situation right now where a fitness corporation known world wide is asking me to photograph specific fitness athletes for them and they are asking for 10 photos a month and driving/flying traveling will be involved. Just to give you an idea the photos look kind of like Les Mills, sort of.

First, let me skip to the important part. You absolutely should have a contract. That contract should be created by an attorney.

So, you have travel every month to produce the 10 images. Travel expenses should be a completely seaparate part of the contract. You need complete reimbursement for all travel expenses and your rate should reflect time away.

You'll have to negotiate about insurance and liability. Do they supply it or are you required to? Your homeowners aint gonna cover things when you're on paid assignment. Not just your gear being damaged but someone tripping over you and getting hurt. When you're somewhere as a fan - no big deal. When you're working, now it's a target for a lawsuit. You need to understand whether you are covered by their liability or whether you need your own. If you need your own, you better make sure you factor that cost in to your rate.

You mention10 photos but you don't say what the time commitment is. Photographers are a dime a dozen now - so it's not like you're going to produce 10 photos that have the world buzzing. So, you need to think of this as a service - it's about your time and expenses, not the 10 images.

My photos are going to be used world wide for their advertisement marketing purposes. My photos will be used for posters, flyers, magazines and social media display. Personally I have no clue on how much to charge this people and I really don't know what kind of paperwork/contracts I should know about so that I get paid accordingly and in a fair way.

Does anybody here know what "procedure" or legal paperwork stuff I should know about regarding photo rights for situations like this and should I be getting a lawyer? Any input will be appreciated.

The company doesn't want my logo on the photos and they want the rights so how much does something like this cost?

20 years ago, professional photographers would be screaming - NO, never give up the rights. A lot has changed in 20 years, and I suspect many such photographers are no longer earning a living wage doing things the way they used to be done.

Based on your business goals you need to calculate all your expenses and make sure that, beyond 100% of your travel expenses and insurance and other equipment expenses there are that you are getting a pre-tax profit that meets your business goals.

There used to be guidelines for "going rate" for this type of photography. That was before the market was flooded with tens of thousands of amateur photographers with side hussle jobs or even existing employees who are just handed cameras. So, rather than quoting an old formula that says you should get paid $3,000 a month plus travel for 10 photos of unlimited use I suggest you figure out what rate works for your business goals and if what they are willing to pay is below that, you move on. Be prepared though - this isn't 20 years ago.

I'm sorry for asking such complicated info here but I honestly don't know who to turn to. Maybe I should go to a local photography/art college and maybe they know stuff like this? The reason why I'm asking here is because I saw the "Sports and Action Photography" thread here which I wasn't aware of it.

Thank you

Yes this is my primary source of income and this is what I do for a living.

that is great input John I will make note of all these thank you.

 

[Batdude]

Hi folks this is my first time posting in this thread.

I do fitness action photography and just started my business recently. I'm In a situation right now where a fitness corporation known world wide is asking me to photograph specific fitness athletes for them and they are asking for 10 photos a month and driving/flying traveling will be involved. Just to give you an idea the photos look kind of like Les Mills, sort of.

My photos are going to be used world wide for their advertisement marketing purposes. My photos will be used for posters, flyers, magazines and social media display. Personally I have no clue on how much to charge this people and I really don't know what kind of paperwork/contracts I should know about so that I get paid accordingly and in a fair way.

Does anybody here know what "procedure" or legal paperwork stuff I should know about regarding photo rights for situations like this and should I be getting a lawyer? Any input will be appreciated.

The company doesn't want my logo on the photos and they want the rights so how much does something like this cost?

I'm sorry for asking such complicated info here but I honestly don't know who to turn to. Maybe I should go to a local photography/art college and maybe they know stuff like this? The reason why I'm asking here is because I saw the "Sports and Action Photography" thread here which I wasn't aware of it.

Thank you

If it's 10 photos in one day than i would come up with a day rate. If you have to take photos over the course of the month I would have a minimum fee/event and time spent up to your day rate. I personally wouldn't spend all day for a commercial venture for less than $1,000/day and wouldn't step foot out of the house for less than $250 min for a couple of local hours. This would be in addition to mileage and travel cost reimbursement.

I don't know if this is way off going rate but that's just me.

I agree thanks

 

[Michael Fritzen]

Very good advice.

It's worth to take into account that even with travel expenses payed or reimbursed while on a airplane or doing a shooting on most exotic locations around the world you're most likely 24h a day off for other potential clients/jobs. So it doesn't really matter whether it's about 1 shot or thousands: the money earned by doing this very job should meet your income needs for at least that period. I'm saying "at least" because even comunication with other potential client could be difficult (impossible) on travel.

In the video aera it seems to be pretty common practice that production firms subcontract to videomakers which again hire people to do effectively the job. And those, ingeneously, "enjoy" payed travelling the world but earn close to nothing...

 

[Old Greenlander]

You got a lot a good advice above, nevertheless I think is a bit of confusion on your part

if they ask for 10 pictures they will probably choose out of 100 and also you will need to cover at least let’s say 15 events per month

this is how they will corner you

take into account that

 

[Selex]

Are you able to get in touch with the photographer that worked for them prior to you? Or similar company photographer that would be doing similar work to yours?

That might be a great resource, provided that person is generous with sharing information and tips and advice. They might know things from experience that neither you nor your legal team crafting the contract are aware of prior to starting the job.

Sometimes there are perks or conditions or situations that can completely "over-rule" what else is happening. You might be doing the best photography and traveling best places etc etc but once you find our that your boss is a horrible person and treats everyone horribly and makes your life miserable the money would not be worth it.

What I am saying is money is just one number/factor, try to find out more about the work conditions/situation and how exactly things will be happening.

Regarding the "10" pictures, agree with someone else. Those are final best images from probably hundreds upon hundreds that you will take and have to sort and edit and process. Kinda like being hired for video. They usually tell you "we are looking for a 30 second clip". Then you spend then next 3 weeks producing it slaving away 18hr per day both in production and post production editing.

What everyone sees is the tip of the iceberg above the waterline. You will quickly become aware of the size of the iceberg that is 'under water'. LOL