Mac Guy wants to build a Windows 10 PC

[PhotoFactor]

Apple is rumoured to release a MacMini Pro model next year if you are willing to wait to see if that fits your needs.

Knowing Apple it will probably be glued into a solid cube.

 

[sam45]

SSD: 500GB Samsung 860 EVO M.2 V-NAND

Although it is a M.2 connection, the 860 is still SATA. Get one that is PCIe: Samsung 970 EVO (or previous generation 960 EVO), and it will be 3-4 times faster. It's not 3-4 more the cost (maybe around $50 more) so worth it in my book for much more read/write speeds.

 

[silentstorm]

MotherBoard: Gigabyte Z3700 HD3P

-For the little I'm spending on the 1060 I can just swap it out in a few years for a 1080, which will be the bargain basement card by then. I know the 1060 will meet my needs until then.

Once again, Tell me where I'm going wrong.

Thanks,

Tom

Nothing wrong with the build. For me, I'll go with the Gigabyte UD series (ultra durable) motherboard for a tad more money.

Wait till month end when the RTX 20xx series is launched. Then picked up a GTX 1070 for the cheap, overall much better specs, that should really last you a much longer time before the next upgrade.

Here's a quick comparison between the 2 graphics.

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/GeForce-GTX-1070-vs-GeForce-GTX-1060

 

[Thomas Kachadurian]

MotherBoard: Gigabyte Z3700 HD3P

Nothing wrong with the build. For me, I'll go with the Gigabyte UD series (ultra durable) motherboard for a tad more money.

The Z370 HD3p is a UD series board.

Tom

 

[Thomas Kachadurian]

SSD: 500GB Samsung 860 EVO M.2 V-NAND

Although it is a M.2 connection, the 860 is still SATA. Get one that is PCIe: Samsung 970 EVO (or previous generation 960 EVO), and it will be 3-4 times faster. It's not 3-4 more the cost (maybe around $50 more) so worth it in my book for much more read/write speeds.

Thank you for the tip. This is exactly the info I needed. I'm switching it to the 960 EVO PCIe, and you are right, it was $60 more.

Tom

 

[Thomas Kachadurian]

Wait till month end when the RTX 20xx series is launched. Then picked up a GTX 1070 for the cheap, overall much better specs, that should really last you a much longer time before the next upgrade.

Here's a quick comparison between the 2 graphics.

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/GeForce-GTX-1070-vs-GeForce-GTX-1060

But in every real Photoshop comparison there is never more than a 4% speed increase. The 1070 is clearly the "better" gaming board, but I will never, ever be gaming. When I want to have fun the last place I want to be is at the computer.

That said, waiting to see what happens to the price is a good idea. Right now the 1060 is 60% of the 1070 price without 40% gain for me. If the 1070 boards go under $300 I'll go that route.

The fact is I may start the build without getting the graphics card, because it's the last thing to go in anyway.

Tom

 

[Thomas Kachadurian]

Apple is rumoured to release a MacMini Pro model next year if you are willing to wait to see if that fits your needs.

I'm pretty much done with MAC. Once you get to this mindset the idea of waiting 8 months for hardware that might be up to last years PC specs is pretty laughable.

MAC is still the king of hype, but sadly that's all. I still remember laughing at the new iPhone innovations of an OLED screen in an IP67 case. Something that described my 4 year old Samsung S5.

It's sundown on MAC as a computer company, and I don't want to be the last rat off the ship.

Tom

 

[PhilDunn]

Apple is rumoured to release a MacMini Pro model next year if you are willing to wait to see if that fits your needs.

I'm pretty much done with MAC. Once you get to this mindset the idea of waiting 8 months for hardware that might be up to last years PC specs is pretty laughable.

MAC is still the king of hype, but sadly that's all. I still remember laughing at the new iPhone innovations of an OLED screen in an IP67 case. Something that described my 4 year old Samsung S5.

It's sundown on MAC as a computer company, and I don't want to be the last rat off the ship.

Tom

Mac sales have never been better.

 

[silentstorm]

Wait till month end when the RTX 20xx series is launched. Then picked up a GTX 1070 for the cheap, overall much better specs, that should really last you a much longer time before the next upgrade.

Here's a quick comparison between the 2 graphics.

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/GeForce-GTX-1070-vs-GeForce-GTX-1060

But in every real Photoshop comparison there is never more than a 4% speed increase. The 1070 is clearly the "better" gaming board, but I will never, ever be gaming. When I want to have fun the last place I want to be is at the computer.

That said, waiting to see what happens to the price is a good idea. Right now the 1060 is 60% of the 1070 price without 40% gain for me. If the 1070 boards go under $300 I'll go that route.

I think you should look at the specs that matters to what you would do with it. Although it is sold as a game card, people still buy it to mine crypto. Let's have a quick look:



Higher mem bandwidth, more mem, better floating point and wider mem bus, all will give much better video editing & rendering performance. With Premiere Pro and DaVinci Resolve, those extra CUDA cores and bandwidth do make a big difference.

Also taking into account of some pano stitching software that can tap onto the extra graphics computing power. 1070 gets my vote here.

Photoshop will also gain if you have many layers and effects, when the file gets very big, you'll truly appreciates those extra speed, memory and bandwidth. A bigger difference also can be felt if you use the 3D space in photoshop.

If you also get your feet wet in After Effects for graphics design and video, the GTX1070 is definitely the one to get vs 1060.

I have listed some advantages the 1070 has over the 1060. Ultimately the decision comes down to you and your needs and budget. I'm currently using an older GTX970, will be upgrading it by year end, either with a RTX series card or a new 7nm Vega64. Our needs are very different, so choose the one that fits the bill.

Happy shopping

 

[silentstorm]

I'm pretty much done with MAC. Once you get to this mindset the idea of waiting 8 months for hardware that might be up to last years PC specs is pretty laughable.

MAC is still the king of hype, but sadly that's all. I still remember laughing at the new iPhone innovations of an OLED screen in an IP67 case. Something that described my 4 year old Samsung S5.

It's sundown on MAC as a computer company, and I don't want to be the last rat off the ship.

Tom

Mac sales have never been better.

If you compared it to 2006 figures, it sure is.









Last quarter apple sold 3.7m macs worldwide. Compared to 5m iphones in 3 days (over launch weekend).



Here's everybody else compared with macs.







Make of it as you will. I'm not sure what is so superior about the mac, but majority of the world doesn't quite agree to it.

 

[Thomas Kachadurian]

Mac sales have never been better.

That would be phone and tablet sales driving a few computer sales. More and more they enjoy the lowest end of the user spectrum.

I've been teaching photoshop for years, 15 years ago any business with graphic arts people ran exclusively macs. Now the only macs I encounter are old-timers (like me) and a few people who like the pretty cases.

Tom

 

[Thomas Kachadurian]

Wait till month end when the RTX 20xx series is launched. Then picked up a GTX 1070 for the cheap, overall much better specs, that should really last you a much longer time before the next upgrade.

Here's a quick comparison between the 2 graphics.

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/GeForce-GTX-1070-vs-GeForce-GTX-1060

But in every real Photoshop comparison there is never more than a 4% speed increase. The 1070 is clearly the "better" gaming board, but I will never, ever be gaming. When I want to have fun the last place I want to be is at the computer.

That said, waiting to see what happens to the price is a good idea. Right now the 1060 is 60% of the 1070 price without 40% gain for me. If the 1070 boards go under $300 I'll go that route.

It's a better card, no argument there. but for me?

Higher mem bandwidth, more mem, better floating point and wider mem bus, all will give much better video editing & rendering performance. With Premiere Pro and DaVinci Resolve, those extra CUDA cores and bandwidth do make a big difference.

I do video about three time a year

Also taking into account of some pano stitching software that can tap onto the extra graphics computing power. 1070 gets my vote here.

Don't pano

Photoshop will also gain if you have many layers and effects, when the file gets very big, you'll truly appreciates those extra speed, memory and bandwidth. A bigger difference also can be felt if you use the 3D space in photoshop.

Don't do 3D

If you also get your feet wet in After Effects for graphics design and video, the GTX1070 is definitely the one to get vs 1060.

No After Effects.

I'll get a better card, it's a question of when. In a year a 1080 might be $400.

Tom

 

[DtEW]

It's a lot of mid-range parts/specs. It's modest at a modest budget. It makes me wonder if you won't be better-off just buying something semi-customized from the big OEMs (Dell, HP, etc).

Building your own rarely saves you any money if you calculate in the value of getting something that is fully-sorted out-of-the box, and is guaranteed in-whole to stay going with a holistic warranty.

People build because 1) they enjoy the challenge/act of rolling-your-own; 2) they can optimize the build in a way that isn't common, whether through uncommon parts or overclocking; 3) they're control freaks; and/or 4) they like a totem to stroke. Be sure at least some of this is you before you commit to rolling-your-own.

Pretty much only the video card is midrange.

I like feedback, but please look at the specs.

What do you think I'm looking at?

• An 8th-gen i7 about to be eclipsed by its 9th-gen successor in about a month (I did hint at this at the outset of this thread), and currently at the lowest prices it has ever been because leaked benchmarks of the 9th-gen suggests a 10% performance improvement.
• Value MB.
• Barely-enough DRAM at unspecified speed/latency.
• Non-NVMe M.2 drive.
• 80+ Gold PSU.
• Value case.
• Nice air cooling (but still air cooling).

Within the world of roll-your-own PCs, this is decidedly midrange. You can easily spend another grand-plus to make it high-end amongst mainstream roll-your-own PC builds, but that's deliberately excluding the HEDT*/workstation builds (Xeons, Threadrippers, etc.) that are becoming popular these days.

* Literally, HEDT = "High-End Desktop". Perhaps you should Google this acronym to see its prevalence these days.

Point me to a pre built with i7 gen 8, 500gb m2, pci ssd, 1060/6gb, beefy power supply, 4 open drive bays, usb 3.0 c and a, for $1300 and I'm in.

I think you're still missing the point, and don't seem to be acknowledging the added-value of work (not merely assembly, but spec'ing idiot-proof hardware that works seamlessly) and a warranty. I'm making the exhortations that I am because much of what has transpired in this thread has given me the impression that you think you know more than you do. Forgive me is this is not actually the case... but that is the impression you are giving.

 

[DtEW]

It's a lot of mid-range parts/specs. It's modest at a modest budget. It makes me wonder if you won't be better-off just buying something semi-customized from the big OEMs (Dell, HP, etc).

Building your own rarely saves you any money if you calculate in the value of getting something that is fully-sorted out-of-the box, and is guaranteed in-whole to stay going with a holistic warranty.

People build because 1) they enjoy the challenge/act of rolling-your-own; 2) they can optimize the build in a way that isn't common, whether through uncommon parts or overclocking; 3) they're control freaks; and/or 4) they like a totem to stroke. Be sure at least some of this is you before you commit to rolling-your-own.

It can be quite a big cost saving in the long run, maybe not straight away but further down the line you can upgrade with just a new motherboard, processor and ram provided you had started out with quality parts, case, psu etc.

The rationale seems sound on the surface, but I think the claimed "big cost savings" is dubious at best. Or just dependent on a certain set of circumstances that I'm not sure is relevant to this thread.

My experience:

Whereas there was a lone instance in which I simply swapped a CPU... my last 4 builds carried over-only PSUs and/or cases, and not even consistently. The simple reason is that I'm not a gamer, and generally build on a 3-to-4-year cycle. By the time I feel like I need a new build because the existing build is falling short of what I want it to do... not only do I need extra CPU/GPU power, but DRAM needs/standards have changed, socket standards have changed, my dataset has increased in size (through both accumulation and upgrades in my cameras) to the point where I need new storage solutions, etc.

I mean, my current build is 100% new with no carryover simply because by the time I came to near-completion... it was simply better to buy a new PSU to complete it and leave the old PSU in the wholly-complete and unscavenged old build to re-purpose it as a new version of my home server.

I mean, if you're a gamer and/or an enthusiast with a particular focus on having a maximized-system/personal-totem, and therefore update your build on a yearly (if not more-frequent) basis... then yeah, building your-own and swapping things out as better versions come along is of course going to be cheaper than replacing the whole thing at shorter intervals, with needless replacement of parts that do not significantly impact the user's use.

OTOH, if you're a photographer, and your processing needs grows with (or perhaps outpaced by) your need for storage... then the savings from parts carry-overs might be very little to non-existent.

 

[PhotoFactor]

It's a lot of mid-range parts/specs. It's modest at a modest budget. It makes me wonder if you won't be better-off just buying something semi-customized from the big OEMs (Dell, HP, etc).

Building your own rarely saves you any money if you calculate in the value of getting something that is fully-sorted out-of-the box, and is guaranteed in-whole to stay going with a holistic warranty.

People build because 1) they enjoy the challenge/act of rolling-your-own; 2) they can optimize the build in a way that isn't common, whether through uncommon parts or overclocking; 3) they're control freaks; and/or 4) they like a totem to stroke. Be sure at least some of this is you before you commit to rolling-your-own.

It can be quite a big cost saving in the long run, maybe not straight away but further down the line you can upgrade with just a new motherboard, processor and ram provided you had started out with quality parts, case, psu etc.

The rationale seems sound on the surface, but I think the claimed "big cost savings" is dubious at best. Or just dependent on a certain set of circumstances that I'm not sure is relevant to this thread.

My experience:

Whereas there was a lone instance in which I simply swapped a CPU... my last 4 builds carried over-only PSUs and/or cases, and not even consistently. The simple reason is that I'm not a gamer, and generally build on a 3-to-4-year cycle. By the time I feel like I need a new build because the existing build is falling short of what I want it to do... not only do I need extra CPU/GPU power, but DRAM needs/standards have changed, socket standards have changed, my dataset has increased in size (through both accumulation and upgrades in my cameras) to the point where I need new storage solutions, etc.

I mean, my current build is 100% new with no carryover simply because by the time I came to near-completion... it was simply better to buy a new PSU to complete it and leave the old PSU in the wholly-complete and unscavenged old build to re-purpose it as a new version of my home server.

I mean, if you're a gamer and/or an enthusiast with a particular focus on having a maximized-system/personal-totem, and therefore update your build on a yearly (if not more-frequent) basis... then yeah, building your-own and swapping things out as better versions come along is of course going to be cheaper than replacing the whole thing at shorter intervals, with needless replacement of parts that do not significantly impact the user's use.

OTOH, if you're a photographer, and your processing needs grows with (or perhaps outpaced by) your need for storage... then the savings from parts carry-overs might be very little to non-existent.

(Jumping in here).

Agree with all of the above. I just like building my own system. It's a Mini-ITX and takes up little space. I can control the noise with the fans I choose.

My suspicion is that Intel deliberately changes the socket every couple of years exclusively so that you will need a new MB (with other new Intel chips). Reminds me of textbook publishers frequently revising textbooks just so that they kill the used resale market.

 

[Carey Brown]

Wait till month end when the RTX 20xx series is launched. Then picked up a GTX 1070 for the cheap, overall much better specs, that should really last you a much longer time before the next upgrade.

Here's a quick comparison between the 2 graphics.

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/GeForce-GTX-1070-vs-GeForce-GTX-1060

But in every real Photoshop comparison there is never more than a 4% speed increase. The 1070 is clearly the "better" gaming board, but I will never, ever be gaming. When I want to have fun the last place I want to be is at the computer.

That said, waiting to see what happens to the price is a good idea. Right now the 1060 is 60% of the 1070 price without 40% gain for me. If the 1070 boards go under $300 I'll go that route.

It's a better card, no argument there. but for me?

Higher mem bandwidth, more mem, better floating point and wider mem bus, all will give much better video editing & rendering performance. With Premiere Pro and DaVinci Resolve, those extra CUDA cores and bandwidth do make a big difference.

I do video about three time a year

Also taking into account of some pano stitching software that can tap onto the extra graphics computing power. 1070 gets my vote here.

Don't pano

Photoshop will also gain if you have many layers and effects, when the file gets very big, you'll truly appreciates those extra speed, memory and bandwidth. A bigger difference also can be felt if you use the 3D space in photoshop.

Don't do 3D

If you also get your feet wet in After Effects for graphics design and video, the GTX1070 is definitely the one to get vs 1060.

No After Effects.

I'll get a better card, it's a question of when. In a year a 1080 might be $400.

Tom

I do video editing from time to time using Premiere Pro and After Effects. I'm running just fine with a 1050Ti. So you might try that if you think you might wait till GPU prices come down. I upgraded to the 1050Ti primarily to get the Display Port because I see a 43" 4K/UHD monitor in my near future.

 

[Paulmorgan]

It's a lot of mid-range parts/specs. It's modest at a modest budget. It makes me wonder if you won't be better-off just buying something semi-customized from the big OEMs (Dell, HP, etc).

Building your own rarely saves you any money if you calculate in the value of getting something that is fully-sorted out-of-the box, and is guaranteed in-whole to stay going with a holistic warranty.

People build because 1) they enjoy the challenge/act of rolling-your-own; 2) they can optimize the build in a way that isn't common, whether through uncommon parts or overclocking; 3) they're control freaks; and/or 4) they like a totem to stroke. Be sure at least some of this is you before you commit to rolling-your-own.

It can be quite a big cost saving in the long run, maybe not straight away but further down the line you can upgrade with just a new motherboard, processor and ram provided you had started out with quality parts, case, psu etc.

The rationale seems sound on the surface, but I think the claimed "big cost savings" is dubious at best. Or just dependent on a certain set of circumstances that I'm not sure is relevant to this thread.

My experience:

Whereas there was a lone instance in which I simply swapped a CPU... my last 4 builds carried over-only PSUs and/or cases, and not even consistently. The simple reason is that I'm not a gamer, and generally build on a 3-to-4-year cycle. By the time I feel like I need a new build because the existing build is falling short of what I want it to do... not only do I need extra CPU/GPU power, but DRAM needs/standards have changed, socket standards have changed, my dataset has increased in size (through both accumulation and upgrades in my cameras) to the point where I need new storage solutions, etc.

I mean, my current build is 100% new with no carryover simply because by the time I came to near-completion... it was simply better to buy a new PSU to complete it and leave the old PSU in the wholly-complete and unscavenged old build to re-purpose it as a new version of my home server.

I mean, if you're a gamer and/or an enthusiast with a particular focus on having a maximized-system/personal-totem, and therefore update your build on a yearly (if not more-frequent) basis... then yeah, building your-own and swapping things out as better versions come along is of course going to be cheaper than replacing the whole thing at shorter intervals, with needless replacement of parts that do not significantly impact the user's use.

OTOH, if you're a photographer, and your processing needs grows with (or perhaps outpaced by) your need for storage... then the savings from parts carry-overs might be very little to non-existent.

I`ve built enough to know that cost savings can be very real.

 

[Paulmorgan]

It's a lot of mid-range parts/specs. It's modest at a modest budget. It makes me wonder if you won't be better-off just buying something semi-customized from the big OEMs (Dell, HP, etc).

Building your own rarely saves you any money if you calculate in the value of getting something that is fully-sorted out-of-the box, and is guaranteed in-whole to stay going with a holistic warranty.

People build because 1) they enjoy the challenge/act of rolling-your-own; 2) they can optimize the build in a way that isn't common, whether through uncommon parts or overclocking; 3) they're control freaks; and/or 4) they like a totem to stroke. Be sure at least some of this is you before you commit to rolling-your-own.

Point me to a pre built with i7 gen 8, 500gb m2, pci ssd, 1060/6gb, beefy power supply, 4 open drive bays, usb 3.0 c and a, for $1300 and I'm in.

Pretty much only the video card is midrange.

I like feedback, but please look at the specs.

Tom

Think about this for a minute.

Why do you need a big beefy power supply.

Why do you need 4 empty and open drive bays

 

[Thomas Kachadurian]

Paulmorgan wrote

Think about this for a minute.

Why do you need a big beefy power supply.

Why do you need 4 empty and open drive bays

I will move 3 of the 4 drives in my existing computer into this computer. Ok, beefy is my word, but my calculation puts me at 675 watts. And extra 175 watts for growth is no where near overkill.

I'm confused as to why people think I should buy a rebuilt? What's in it for you? Do you work for Dell? Bad build experience? I'd like the subtext.

Tom

 

[Wayne Larmon]

Right now the 1060 is 60% of the 1070 price without 40% gain for me. If the 1070 boards go under $300 I'll go that route.

It's a better card, no argument there. but for me?

Higher mem bandwidth, more mem, better floating point and wider mem bus, all will give much better video editing & rendering performance. With Premiere Pro and DaVinci Resolve, those extra CUDA cores and bandwidth do make a big difference.

I do video about three time a year

Also taking into account of some pano stitching software that can tap onto the extra graphics computing power. 1070 gets my vote here.

Don't pano

Photoshop will also gain if you have many layers and effects, when the file gets very big, you'll truly appreciates those extra speed, memory and bandwidth. A bigger difference also can be felt if you use the 3D space in photoshop.

Don't do 3D

If you also get your feet wet in After Effects for graphics design and video, the GTX1070 is definitely the one to get vs 1060.

No After Effects.

I don't game, don't do 3D, don't do panos or stitching, don't do complicated Photoshop and (currently) don't edit video. But I just upgraded my old i7 2600K machine with a new power supply and 1070 Ti (with lots of help from this forum) solely to experiment with Topaz A.I. Gigapixel. (Currently being discussed on the Retouching forum.)

And I'm happy I did. It is exhilarating to revisit my beloved early 2000s four and six megapixel images that I could never print as large as I wanted to and be able to upsize them so they are usable at higher resolutions (and on my 320 PPI 4K laptop.)
A.I. Gigapixel wants all the GPU you can throw at it (if you are upsizing to the 50+ megapixel range.) It is very GPU intensive.

Wayne