X-H1 price is dropping massively already

[Arizona Sunset]

Here in Vienna the XH1 and GFX sales are nearly zero, and it looks like because the design is the one of the reason.

Yes, X-H1 sales are very bad, it's a big failure because of the competition with Sony in particular.

Business strategy that I don't understand...

Where are you guys getting data on sales figures? or just guessing?

The latter. Lots of guesswork and assumptions... no data.

Based on popular rankings in the big three retailers, one could assume it's not doing so well.

On Amazon, it's missing from the top 75 mirrorless cameras and bundles:

• https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Mirrorless-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3109924011

On BH, #37 in mirrorless cameras, bested by the X-T20, X-T2, EOS-M5, A6000, A6300, A6500, A7, A7 II, A7 III, A7S II, A7R II, A7R III, G7, GX85, GH5, GH5S, E-M1 II, and variations thereof:

• https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/...OPULARITY|1/ci/16158/ipp/24/N/4288586281/pn/2

On Adorama, #44 in mirrorless sorted by "Popular Results", similar story as BH, but with dated models like the GH4 and A5100 beating it:

• https://www.adorama.com/l/Cameras/Mirrorless-Cameras?startAt=30

 

[Iuvenis]

Here in Vienna the XH1 and GFX sales are nearly zero, and it looks like because the design is the one of the reason.

Yes, X-H1 sales are very bad, it's a big failure because of the competition with Sony in particular.

Business strategy that I don't understand...

Where are you guys getting data on sales figures? or just guessing?

The latter. Lots of guesswork and assumptions... no data.

Strangely, there actually is data available. Fuji's revenue in the electronic imaging division (digital cameras and lenses) is up 0.9% from this time last year. So in a broadly flat market, they gained some market share.

If the X-H1 and GFX aren't selling, something is.

 

[Iuvenis]

Here in Vienna the XH1 and GFX sales are nearly zero, and it looks like because the design is the one of the reason.

Yes, X-H1 sales are very bad, it's a big failure because of the competition with Sony in particular.

Business strategy that I don't understand...

Where are you guys getting data on sales figures? or just guessing?

The latter. Lots of guesswork and assumptions... no data.

Based on popular rankings in the big three retailers, one could assume it's not doing so well.

On Amazon, it's missing from the top 75 mirrorless cameras and bundles:

• https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Mirrorless-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3109924011

On BH, #37 in mirrorless cameras, bested by the X-T20, X-T2, EOS-M5, A6000, A6300, A6500, A7, A7 II, A7 III, A7S II, A7R II, A7R III, G7, GX85, GH5, GH5S, E-M1 II, and variations thereof:

• https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/...OPULARITY|1/ci/16158/ipp/24/N/4288586281/pn/2

On Adorama, #44 in mirrorless sorted by "Popular Results", similar story as BH, but with dated models like the GH4 and A5100 beating it:

• https://www.adorama.com/l/Cameras/Mirrorless-Cameras?startAt=30

These lists are a hopeless guide, not least because they separate out different bundles for the same camera, so the X-H1 on BH is 37, but also 38 (with grip) and 40 (with memory card) etc.

 

[Jerry-astro]

Here in Vienna the XH1 and GFX sales are nearly zero, and it looks like because the design is the one of the reason.

Yes, X-H1 sales are very bad, it's a big failure because of the competition with Sony in particular.

Business strategy that I don't understand...

Where are you guys getting data on sales figures? or just guessing?

The latter. Lots of guesswork and assumptions... no data.

Based on popular rankings in the big three retailers, one could assume it's not doing so well.

On Amazon, it's missing from the top 75 mirrorless cameras and bundles:

• https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Mirrorless-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3109924011

On BH, #37 in mirrorless cameras, bested by the X-T20, X-T2, EOS-M5, A6000, A6300, A6500, A7, A7 II, A7 III, A7S II, A7R II, A7R III, G7, GX85, GH5, GH5S, E-M1 II, and variations thereof:

• https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/...OPULARITY|1/ci/16158/ipp/24/N/4288586281/pn/2

On Adorama, #44 in mirrorless sorted by "Popular Results", similar story as BH, but with dated models like the GH4 and A5100 beating it:

• https://www.adorama.com/l/Cameras/Mirrorless-Cameras?startAt=30

Some of that data is useful and relevant, some not so much. The X-H1 is at the top of Fuji's crop line, so you can't expect the volumes to be up there with other cameras that sell at lower prices (some of which you've included in this list). If you want a more fair apples-to-apples comparison, at least limit your selections to those in a similar price band (regardless of sensor size).

 

[Arizona Sunset]

Here in Vienna the XH1 and GFX sales are nearly zero, and it looks like because the design is the one of the reason.

Yes, X-H1 sales are very bad, it's a big failure because of the competition with Sony in particular.

Business strategy that I don't understand...

Where are you guys getting data on sales figures? or just guessing?

The latter. Lots of guesswork and assumptions... no data.

Strangely, there actually is data available. Fuji's revenue in the electronic imaging division (digital cameras and lenses) is up 0.9% from this time last year. So in a broadly flat market, they gained some market share.

If the X-H1 and GFX aren't selling, something is.

The XT2 and XT20 are selling well, if you look at my above links.

 

[Arizona Sunset]

Here in Vienna the XH1 and GFX sales are nearly zero, and it looks like because the design is the one of the reason.

Yes, X-H1 sales are very bad, it's a big failure because of the competition with Sony in particular.

Business strategy that I don't understand...

Where are you guys getting data on sales figures? or just guessing?

The latter. Lots of guesswork and assumptions... no data.

Based on popular rankings in the big three retailers, one could assume it's not doing so well.

On Amazon, it's missing from the top 75 mirrorless cameras and bundles:

• https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Mirrorless-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3109924011

On BH, #37 in mirrorless cameras, bested by the X-T20, X-T2, EOS-M5, A6000, A6300, A6500, A7, A7 II, A7 III, A7S II, A7R II, A7R III, G7, GX85, GH5, GH5S, E-M1 II, and variations thereof:

• https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/...OPULARITY|1/ci/16158/ipp/24/N/4288586281/pn/2

On Adorama, #44 in mirrorless sorted by "Popular Results", similar story as BH, but with dated models like the GH4 and A5100 beating it:

• https://www.adorama.com/l/Cameras/Mirrorless-Cameras?startAt=30

These lists are a hopeless guide, not least because they separate out different bundles for the same camera, so the X-H1 on BH is 37, but also 38 (with grip) and 40 (with memory card) etc.

They are a guide based on popularity.

You can sort by bundle, or filter by body only, or by price, and the results tell a similar story.

 

[Daft Punk]

Lots of armchair industrialists here, seeking to apply their own experience and knowledge from outside the industry to the camera business; opinions which are also influenced by local perspectives, prejudices and inbuilt biases - even subconscious bias.

I think the reality is that none of you have a clue. At the headline level, Fuji is forging ahead with its camera range; selling lots of lenses ( so many they are having to expand capacity ) while also developing extended manufacturing facilities in China.

Citing Amazon sales figures is pointless. And whatever is the best selling ( or not-selling ) camera in Vienna is statistically insignificant to be almost irrelevant.

There is a very North American mindset here. Lets be honest about that. Let us also remind ourselves that the US is not the centre of the universe.

What about Asia? China? The Japanese home market?

Example - a population greater than the entire US lives in just 15 of China's cities. Unless we understand the markets in Guangzhan, Hangzhou, Wuhan etc, then we have no data to make an accurate assessment.

Indeed, the population of SE Asia alone ( let alone China ) is DOUBLE that of the US at nearly 700 million people. Maybe they buy cameras too...

 

[Sal Baker]

in Europe We can find a brand new XH1 for 1420€.

What is happening? Why this huge drop in price this early?

https://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/pdf/investors/finance/results/ff_fr_2019q1_001.pdf

"In the electronic imaging field of the optical device and electronic imaging business, overall sales increased due to strong sales of X Series such as FUJIFILM X-H1, which has a newly-developed robust and durable body with superior image quality and easy operation, lauched in March 2018, and FUJIFILM X-T100, an entry-level model that realizes high image quality in various scenes with comfortable operation, launched in June 2018, and interchangeable lenses."

Sal

 

[krassphoto]

I think the reality is that none of you have a clue.

Shhhh, everybody! Fuji marketing executive is here!

 

[Marty4650]

Actual sales data by brand and model number is hard to come by, but list prices and current selling prices are easy to find.

The OP started this thread by asserting that Fuji was drastically discounting their X-H1 and I thought he was exaggerating until I looked at the selling prices of other Fuji cameras. And some of them are almost three years old and still selling very close to the original MSRP.

But the X-H1 is only 6 months old and is currently available for almost 20% off it's list price.



This tells us that Fuji is having a real problem moving this model. Either they set the original price too high, or they made too many of them, or for whatever reason, they are getting buyer resistance, so they need to discount their price sharply for a very recent camera.



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[Jerry-astro]

Actual sales data by brand and model number is hard to come by, but list prices and current selling prices are easy to find.

The OP started this thread by asserting that Fuji was drastically discounting their X-H1 and I thought he was exaggerating until I looked at the selling prices of other Fuji cameras. And some of them are almost three years old and still selling very close to the original MSRP.

But the X-H1 is only 6 months old and is currently available for almost 20% off it's list price.

All prices are from Amazon USA, and in US dollars...



This tells us that Fuji is having a real problem moving this model. Either they set the original price too high, or they made too many of them, or for whatever reason, they are getting buyer resistance, so they need to discount their price sharply for a very recent camera.

Decent theory and quite possibly credible as well. Yet, they’ve publicly positioned X-H1 sales as “strong.” Now don’t get me wrong... I definitely understand the difference between reality and Marketing, having spent 45+ years in the high tech industry, much of which was involved in pricing, positioning, and all aspects of getting new products to market and sustaining them. However, we have a forum full of armchair marketers (myself included) some of whom seem ready to declare a product as a failure with little real data to support it (other than perhaps the comment you made concerning their current pricing behavior with respect to this specific product).

I do think there’s definitely some room for movement in their X-H1 pricing and it’s certainly quite likely that the’re trying to goose volumes by dropping the price after testing the waters with a higher one. That doesn’t necessarily signal failure, and it’s way too early to make that assumption IMHO. It will be interesting to see how much price elasticity the product has (i.e. higher volumes as a function of lower price).

 

[Chris Dodkin]

Amen to that statement

 

[ikaika777]

Why do people keep going by Amazon sales as if they’re the only company selling cameras? I know people who would never buy a camera from Amazon because they want to support their local camera shop.

--
After all is said and done and your photo is hanging on the wall, no one is going to know or care what camera, lens, or what post processing you used. All they care about is if the image moves them.

 

[Marty4650]

Why do people keep going by Amazon sales as if they’re the only company selling cameras? I know people who would never buy a camera from Amazon because they want to support their local camera shop.

People use Amazon sales rankings because they are a huge seller in a huge market. Sure they aren't the entire market, but they represent a much larger piece of it than any local camera shop does.

But more to the point.... Amazon lists their best sellers, and no one else does. In the absence of actual sales data you have to use whatever you have, and then assume it is being honestly reported.

The Amazon Best Sellers List needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because you don't know anything about the quantities sold, only the rank. So the top ranked camera could sell one more unit than the second ranked one, or it could sell ten times as many. You really have no way of knowing.

Having said that, I think it is fair to infer that Canon is doing pretty well when 6 of the top 20 Amazon selling cameras were different Canon T6 kits or bundles. And if you cannot find an Pentax camera in Amazon's top 100.... then that tells you something too.

 

[John Gellings]

This tells us that Fuji is having a real problem moving this model. Either they set the original price too high...

I'm starting to believe this... it seems the Sony A7 III hype is really hurting a lot of cameras. Not to us Fuji users, but to those who chase the best specs on paper vs. perceived value.

 

[ikaika777]

Why do people keep going by Amazon sales as if they’re the only company selling cameras? I know people who would never buy a camera from Amazon because they want to support their local camera shop.

People use Amazon sales rankings because they are a huge seller in a huge market. Sure they aren't the entire market, but they represent a much larger piece of it than any local camera shop does.

But more to the point.... Amazon lists their best sellers, and no one else does. In the absence of actual sales data you have to use whatever you have, and then assume it is being honestly reported.

The Amazon Best Sellers List needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because you don't know anything about the quantities sold, only the rank. So the top ranked camera could sell one more unit than the second ranked one, or it could sell ten times as many. You really have no way of knowing.

Having said that, I think it is fair to infer that Canon is doing pretty well when 6 of the top 20 Amazon selling cameras were different Canon T6 kits or bundles. And if you cannot find an Pentax camera in Amazon's top 100.... then that tells you something too.

And Amazon doesn’t report their returns of their “best selling” cameras. Who knows, maybe 1000 were sold and 800 returned. And not finding Pentax in their top 100 doesn’t mean that Pentax doesn’t make a great camera. Leica makes great handmade camera’s but they’re not in the top 20 or more for Amazon, I guess that means Leica camera’s suck and the company is in dire straits. A grain of salt indeed.

 

[michaeladawson]

I’m seeing Amazon listing the X-H1 at $1650. I’m also seeing the X-T2 listed at $1100.

So what is your chart based on?

 

[Arizona Sunset]

I think the reality is that none of you have a clue.

Shhhh, everybody! Fuji marketing executive is here!

Daft has spoken.

We must respect the mysteries of Asian camera markets, untapped and misunderstand until the release of the X-H1.

 

[Daft Punk]

I think the reality is that none of you have a clue.

Shhhh, everybody! Fuji marketing executive is here!

Daft has spoken.

We must respect the mysteries of Asian camera markets, untapped and misunderstand until the release of the X-H1.

I am merely pointing out that the rest of the world is larger than the US. So any supposed "insite" into anything, frankly, involving a global industry like this is going to be simply wrong if it excludes large parts of the world.

 

[Emile15]

Where? I am in the market for one and have not found a new one much below €1650.