What metadata should be disclosed before sending photos to a client?

[IdanShmu]

Not sure I'm in the right forum but I couldn't find a better suited one.

Recently I hired a photographer to shot a family event.

When I reviewed the photos, I noticed that the metadata is empty. Nothing but a copy write information.

I've sent him an email stating that metadata is important when one uses automatic tools to review and categorize photos / albums.

Information such as: Data taken, Geolocation are mandatory and information such as aperture, focal length, etc. are useful as well.

Am I being reasonable or out of line?

What is the “standard” one this matter? What information should the photographer disclose, if any, and why?

 

[Mark_A]

Not sure I'm in the right forum but I couldn't find a better suited one.

Recently I hired a photographer to shot a family event.

When I reviewed the photos, I noticed that the metadata is empty. Nothing but a copy write information.

I've sent him an email stating that metadata is important when one uses automatic tools to review and categorize photos / albums.

Information such as: Data taken, Geolocation are mandatory and information such as aperture, focal length, etc. are useful as well.

Am I being reasonable or out of line?

What is the “standard” one this matter? What information should the photographer disclose, if any, and why?

Hi IdanShmu,

If it is important to you then it is worth asking. But the photographer has included their copyright information which suggests that they are not giving you a free hand to do whatever you want with the images, they are retaining some copyright over the pictures.

Mark_A

Thread for Sunrise & Sunset pictures (part 3!)

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60273364

 

[photolando]

Well, all our studio does is corporate events. The time stamp is very important. This tells them that we started and ended at our scheduled times. Or if we went over on time due to client request or they just ran long, it proves what time we ended as we start charging extra by the 1/2 hour.

Actually, if they are work for hire, they should turn off copyright info. Any photos I take for our studio are property of the studio and/or our clients. We deal with very large companies and also some celebrity meet and greets or performances and we can't have our guys doing whatever they want with the images or cause any grief later over copyright.

Not all Metadata is really all that important but it does help if you see something wrong and if looking at the Metadata can help figure out why. Wrong WB. Slow shutter. Too wide of an aperture, etc.

But as for "our" clients, they could care less about metadata. They just want the images. Not sure why a family would need metadata either since you mentioned family event.

 

[IdanShmu]

they are retaining some copyright over the pictures.

I agree. The keyword is "some". striping all the information is not necessary.

 

[IdanShmu]

Not sure why a family would need metadata either since you mentioned family event.

I'm part of that family

And since I use tools/scripts to help me view/categorize my photos - those tools are helpless without some basic metadata.

Regardless whether I need it or can work my way around it - I just wanted the community's opinion about it or perhaps become aware of some standard on the matter.

So, does every photographer/studio strips whatever data it wants?

 

[Levantinian]

So, does every photographer/studio strips whatever data it wants?

I never let a digital photograph go out of my hands with the non-image data that a camera writes to the file. Depending on the client and business arrangement, there might (or might not!) be a copyright/author notice and/or project/contract reference, and depending on the purpose, the time-stamp. I never, ever remember including anything else.

It is a general business practice: publishing any information about the process that went into the creation of the product should only be done if there is a contractual or regulatory requirement to do so.

If camera makers understood this, they would write user-selected authorship string and time-stamp, in a standardized manner, into the file. All else would be in a separate image-sibling file. The current "open-ended" loading of all kind of data into the image file is, in my opinion, a sign of total lack of information-processing expertize by the early digital camera makers.

 

[Micheal Hall]

My business is delivering photos, not metadata.

I've never considered it obligatory that I deliver a photo with metadata.

That said, I make no particular effort to strip any metadata out of the files that I deliver.

There are areas of my workflow where I do intentionally strip metadata - that is a recommended practice for speeding image downloads on the web where performance is a concern.

However, it adds very little overhead to images delivered to a client for printing purposes, so I've never thought to remove it.

I can see your point and what's behind the desire for the data from an organizational standpoint. With that in mind, you should speak to the photographer in advance on such occasions to see what their thoughts/policies are on the matter. They may not even know the data is being stripped and could possibly provide copies with the information intact.

Regards,
Micheal

 

[tcg550]

Not sure I'm in the right forum but I couldn't find a better suited one.

Recently I hired a photographer to shot a family event.

When I reviewed the photos, I noticed that the metadata is empty. Nothing but a copy write information.

I've sent him an email stating that metadata is important when one uses automatic tools to review and categorize photos / albums.

Information such as: Data taken, Geolocation are mandatory and information such as aperture, focal length, etc. are useful as well.

Am I being reasonable or out of line?

What is the “standard” one this matter? What information should the photographer disclose, if any, and why?

You were at the event, you know when and where the photos were taken.

Aperture and focal length? Other than curiosity as a photographer how could that information help you in any way?

I just shot an event last night. The photos have already been supplied to the customer, there is no metadata in any of the photos. I've never had any customer ask for any information about camera type, aperture, focal length, etc...

They do require images of the event.

 

[IdanShmu]

You were at the event, you know when and where the photos were taken.

Aperture and focal length? Other than curiosity as a photographer how could that information help you in any way?

I just shot an event last night. The photos have already been supplied to the customer, there is no metadata in any of the photos. I've never had any customer ask for any information about camera type, aperture, focal length, etc...

They do require images of the event.

appreciate the response. However, I'm struggling to find an insight to my queries.

I understand you question my needs for a metadata and that is fine.
But, I don't think it is relevant. As long as I, the client, see a value in this information, my question still remains:

Do you, as a photographer have a valid reason to conceal the information in question?

 

[MindInRewind]

You were at the event, you know when and where the photos were taken.

Aperture and focal length? Other than curiosity as a photographer how could that information help you in any way?

I just shot an event last night. The photos have already been supplied to the customer, there is no metadata in any of the photos. I've never had any customer ask for any information about camera type, aperture, focal length, etc...

They do require images of the event.

appreciate the response. However, I'm struggling to find an insight to my queries.

I understand you question my needs for a metadata and that is fine.
But, I don't think it is relevant. As long as I, the client, see a value in this information, my question still remains:

Do you, as a photographer have a valid reason to conceal the information in question?

Well, if you, the client, see value in it, you, as a client, should ask for it. Me, the photographer, see value in images, not information. So, me, the photographer, only does things that concern images for you, the client. If you, the client, see value in information regarding your, the client, photos, than maybe you should ask.

~MIR

 

[MindInRewind]

You were at the event, you know when and where the photos were taken.

Aperture and focal length? Other than curiosity as a photographer how could that information help you in any way?

I just shot an event last night. The photos have already been supplied to the customer, there is no metadata in any of the photos. I've never had any customer ask for any information about camera type, aperture, focal length, etc...

They do require images of the event.

appreciate the response. However, I'm struggling to find an insight to my queries.

I understand you question my needs for a metadata and that is fine.
But, I don't think it is relevant. As long as I, the client, see a value in this information, my question still remains:

Do you, as a photographer have a valid reason to conceal the information in question?

But yes, if I had to say why I would not want to share my metadata, is because I wouldn't want you to "see" how my photos were created. My data is not of your concern and should not be of your concern. Images, not information is of priority.

~MIR

 

[donaldsc]

Everyone seems to be ignoring something - if the client would like to have the metadata, what harm could there be to supply it. Everyone seems to be fixated on why they should not supply it.

 

[IdanShmu]

Everyone seems to be ignoring something - if the client would like to have the metadata, what harm could there be to supply it. Everyone seems to be fixated on why they should not supply it.

It seems like this friendly discussion becomes a bit to personal and uneasy.
I'm not trying to convince anyone to delver their metadata or to get suggestions on how to ask my photographer for one.

I can see that some photographers take a bit of an offence regarding my request. I'm not trying to offend anyone. I just feel like answers like: "I will not provide a metadata because you don't need one" is not very respectful.

Is my request/question in such bad taste?

 

[IdanShmu]

I wouldn't want you to "see" how my photos were created

I respect that.

 

[tcg550]

You were at the event, you know when and where the photos were taken.

Aperture and focal length? Other than curiosity as a photographer how could that information help you in any way?

I just shot an event last night. The photos have already been supplied to the customer, there is no metadata in any of the photos. I've never had any customer ask for any information about camera type, aperture, focal length, etc...

They do require images of the event.

appreciate the response. However, I'm struggling to find an insight to my queries.

I understand you question my needs for a metadata and that is fine.
But, I don't think it is relevant. As long as I, the client, see a value in this information, my question still remains:

Do you, as a photographer have a valid reason to conceal the information in question?

It is relevant if you want to convince me or any photographer why you want the information.

When we paid for the cupcakes and wedding cake for our daughters wedding we did not require the ingredients or oven temperature. We required tasty treats that the contract called for.

I'm not concealing anything, I'm providing my customer with the images they contracted for. Knowings the focal length or aperture is not required for them to receive and use the photos.

How is knowing the focal length useful to you for photos you did not take? Answering that question would be helpful to know what that information may be worth.

 

[tcg550]

Everyone seems to be ignoring something - if the client would like to have the metadata, what harm could there be to supply it. Everyone seems to be fixated on why they should not supply it.

It seems like this friendly discussion becomes a bit to personal and uneasy.
I'm not trying to convince anyone to delver their metadata or to get suggestions on how to ask my photographer for one.

I can see that some photographers take a bit of an offence regarding my request. I'm not trying to offend anyone. I just feel like answers like: "I will not provide a metadata because you don't need one" is not very respectful.

Is my request/question in such bad taste?

It's not in bad taste but why you need the information is a curiosity.

 

[donaldsc]

Everyone seems to be ignoring something - if the client would like to have the metadata, what harm could there be to supply it. Everyone seems to be fixated on why they should not supply it.

It seems like this friendly discussion becomes a bit to personal and uneasy.
I'm not trying to convince anyone to delver their metadata or to get suggestions on how to ask my photographer for one.

I can see that some photographers take a bit of an offence regarding my request. I'm not trying to offend anyone. I just feel like answers like: "I will not provide a metadata because you don't need one" is not very respectful.

Is my request/question in such bad taste?

It's not in bad taste but why you need the information is a curiosity.

You are totally missing the point. If the client wants the metadata for whatever reason is important to him, why shouldn't the photographer supply it. The data is already on the photo file so it is not costing him anything in time or effort to generate it. Photography is basically a service industry and any reasonable request by the client who is purchasing the service should be supplied.

The OP is completely right.

--
Don

 

[IdanShmu]

It's not in bad taste but why you need the information is a curiosity.

Fair. Let's look at Lightroom's metadata filters:


Lightroom's metadata filters view

I find it very useful and use it constantly. Because:

• "aperture filters might be useful for short-listing pictures shot at the widest lens aperture and therefore with the shallowest depth of field"
• "focal length filters might be useful for short-listing pictures shot at the widest angle"

I assume that Adobe implemented this feature on demand and I'm not the only user who find those filters useful.

If a client finds this useful and there is no harm for the photographer then why not providing a more-complete service?

The final product is not always the only valuable thing. Sometimes, I enjoy a movie bloopers just as much as the movies itself

 

[tcg550]

Everyone seems to be ignoring something - if the client would like to have the metadata, what harm could there be to supply it. Everyone seems to be fixated on why they should not supply it.

It seems like this friendly discussion becomes a bit to personal and uneasy.
I'm not trying to convince anyone to delver their metadata or to get suggestions on how to ask my photographer for one.

I can see that some photographers take a bit of an offence regarding my request. I'm not trying to offend anyone. I just feel like answers like: "I will not provide a metadata because you don't need one" is not very respectful.

Is my request/question in such bad taste?

It's not in bad taste but why you need the information is a curiosity.

You are totally missing the point. If the client wants the metadata for whatever reason is important to him, why shouldn't the photographer supply it. The data is already on the photo file so it is not costing him anything in time or effort to generate it. Photography is basically a service industry and any reasonable request by the client who is purchasing the service should be supplied.

The OP is completely right.

 

[tcg550]

It's not in bad taste but why you need the information is a curiosity.

Fair. Let's look at Lightroom's metadata filters:


Lightroom's metadata filters view

I find it very useful and use it constantly. Because:

• "aperture filters might be useful for short-listing pictures shot at the widest lens aperture and therefore with the shallowest depth of field"
• "focal length filters might be useful for short-listing pictures shot at the widest angle"

I assume that Adobe implemented this feature on demand and I'm not the only user who find those filters useful.

If a client finds this useful and there is no harm for the photographer then why not providing a more-complete service?

The final product is not always the only valuable thing. Sometimes, I enjoy a movie bloopers just as much as the movies itself

If you find that information valuable would you pay extra for it?

I received 1,800 photos from our duaghter's wedding, I never considered searching for photos based on depth of field. They are all organized by the days events and people in them (I did that) but things like focal length and aperture never crossed my mind.

Still not something I would ever think about.

I guess if ti's important to you you should put it in your contract but be prepared for the possibility to pay extra. After all, you said you find it useful and it has value.