macro - anyone have a favorite tool?

[christofurry]

hey,

i have a 250d and recently shot some close ups of a bird with my g2. i think ive fallen in love with macro photography. love the detail and the shallow [as a dried up puddle] depth of field. at first i was going to ask if it was wise to stack two 250ds [i only have one but am interested in playing with some more stuff], then i figured id ask if anyone here has a favorite tool for doing macro work. ive seen mark plonskys stuff... wow, amazing. he uses a reversed pentax 50mm f1.4 [im pretty sure about that] and his work just blows me away. i have a canon 50mm f/1.8.. would that do the job on my g2 [reversed of course]? also, what tools do you like to use for macro work? thanks ahead of time for any info. you can see the bird i was talking about here:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1312805&size=lg
and here:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1312810&size=lg

also, since i mentioned mark plonskys work, he has a few sites, but heres his photo.net site:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=351402
alright, thanks for any info you can give me!

--
christofurry

http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=523846

 

[christofurry]

no one? im also interested in seeing some macro shots youve taken with certain lenses and recommendations, please?

hey,
i have a 250d and recently shot some close ups of a bird with my
g2. i think ive fallen in love with macro photography. love the
detail and the shallow [as a dried up puddle] depth of field. at
first i was going to ask if it was wise to stack two 250ds [i only
have one but am interested in playing with some more stuff], then i
figured id ask if anyone here has a favorite tool for doing macro
work. ive seen mark plonskys stuff... wow, amazing. he uses a
reversed pentax 50mm f1.4 [im pretty sure about that] and his work
just blows me away. i have a canon 50mm f/1.8.. would that do the
job on my g2 [reversed of course]? also, what tools do you like to
use for macro work? thanks ahead of time for any info. you can
see the bird i was talking about here:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1312805&size=lg
and here:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=1312810&size=lg
also, since i mentioned mark plonskys work, he has a few sites, but
heres his photo.net site:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=351402
alright, thanks for any info you can give me!

--
christofurry

http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=523846

--
christofurry

http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=523846

 

[Don Ellis]

no one? im also interested in seeing some macro
shots youve taken with certain lenses and
recommendations, please?

Well, since you're begging and since most of America's asleep right now.

I wouldn't bother with two 250Ds because that's only going to give you +8 diopters. I've had good luck with a Hoya Close-up Filter Set (3 filters of +1, +2 and +4). And a 2-element Hoya Macro Lens +10. You can even stack them all for +17.

Having said that, you've rightly admired Mark Plonsky's work and you already have the 50mm lens. I would suggest you forget buying anything until you fit an adapter and step ring combination on your camera and use your 50mm. Nothing in filter sets is going to get you anywhere close to Mark's work.

Cheers,

Don

Here are a couple of my galleries that use the Hoyas:
http://www.kleptography.com/gallery-mantis.htm
http://www.kleptography.com/gallery-garden.htm

 

[christofurry]

don! i just looked at some of your photos today [before you posted here], nice work, definitely. thanks for the input as well!
--
christofurry

http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=523846

 

[Don Ellis]

don! i just looked at some of your photos today
[before you posted here], nice work, definitely.
thanks for the input as well!

Nice coincidence. Thanks for your comments. You should be able to open up an entirely new world with your 50mm. Show us some pictures when you get something you like.

Cheers.

Don

 

[christofurry]

thanks don,

ill have to find a 58mm to 52mm adapter thing first. adorama has em i think, maybe ill go ahead. oh yeah, but first, im curious because mark uses an f/1.4. is the aperture a big deal with this? i dont believe i can adjust it off the camera, mine is a canon fd lens, maybe you [or anyone] knows how to change it off camera if necessary? im also wondering about vignetting.. is this an issue with 1:1.8 [or whatever it may be at when off camera]?

don! i just looked at some of your photos today
[before you posted here], nice work, definitely.
thanks for the input as well!

Nice coincidence. Thanks for your comments. You should be able to
open up an entirely new world with your 50mm. Show us some pictures
when you get something you like.

Cheers.

Don

--
christofurry

http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=523846

 

[Don Ellis]

thanks don,
ill have to find a 58mm to 52mm adapter thing
first. adorama has em i think, maybe ill go
ahead. oh yeah, but first, im curious because mark
uses an f/1.4. is the aperture a big deal with
this? i dont believe i can adjust it off the
camera, mine is a canon fd lens, maybe you [or
anyone] knows how to change it off camera if
necessary? im also wondering about vignetting..
is this an issue with 1:1.8 [or whatever it may be
at when off camera]?

I wouldn't think that the 1.8 is a problem. Just needs more light. However, I'm just guessing... I've run into Mark a few times on the web and he always seems quite friendly and helpful. I have a feeling he would be happy to tell you everything you'd want to know about this approach. Certainly worth a try writing to him.

Cheers,

Don

 

[christofurry]

i think ill do that

don, youve been lots of help, thanks so much! ill talk to you later, have a great day, bye!

thanks don,
ill have to find a 58mm to 52mm adapter thing
first. adorama has em i think, maybe ill go
ahead. oh yeah, but first, im curious because mark
uses an f/1.4. is the aperture a big deal with
this? i dont believe i can adjust it off the
camera, mine is a canon fd lens, maybe you [or
anyone] knows how to change it off camera if
necessary? im also wondering about vignetting..
is this an issue with 1:1.8 [or whatever it may be
at when off camera]?

I wouldn't think that the 1.8 is a problem. Just needs more light.
However, I'm just guessing... I've run into Mark a few times on the
web and he always seems quite friendly and helpful. I have a
feeling he would be happy to tell you everything you'd want to know
about this approach. Certainly worth a try writing to him.

Cheers,

Don

--
christofurry

http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=523846

 

[Don Ellis]

i think ill do that
don, youve been lots of help, thanks so much!
ill talk to you later, have a great day, bye!

You're welcome.

And thanks to you, I read Mark's article a little more carefully. You asked about vignetting. Try this...

http://www.photo.net/photodb/presentation?presentation_id=188714

About halfway down, under the picture of the ant, "Reversing the lens" -- third paragraph.

Cheers,

Don

 

[Brian G.]

Hello guys,

Don-before I say anything else, I just want to tell you that I really enjoy your work. Your IR galleries were among the first I had seen, and are partly responsible for my wanting to do IR digital photography. Thank you. =)

I have also admired Mark Plonsky's work, and after seeing his galleries decided I would try macro. I have been using close up lenses for macro shots (since I had access to some already), and although I am very new to this, just wanted to mention the results of some recent tests in case they would be of interest to anyone.

Stacking two +10s and a +7 on my S30 allows me to capture a full frame shot with an area of 13x10mm at a working distance of 26mm:



Although I have read that image quality deteriorates rapidly as you stack more than 2-3 lenses, I thought I would also (just for the heck of it), try stacking four. Stacking two +10s and two +7s allows me to capture a full frame with an area of only 8x11mm at a working distance of 19mm:



I haven't really done much yet with such magnification, but here is one example of something other than a ruler. =)



If you'd like to take a look, there are also some macros on my web gallery that were taken with stacked close up lenses. As I said, I'm new at this, but learning has certainly been fun.

Regards,
Brian

no one? im also interested in seeing some macro
shots youve taken with certain lenses and
recommendations, please?

Well, since you're begging and since most of America's asleep right
now.

I wouldn't bother with two 250Ds because that's only going to give
you +8 diopters. I've had good luck with a Hoya Close-up Filter Set
(3 filters of +1, +2 and +4). And a 2-element Hoya Macro Lens +10.
You can even stack them all for +17.

Having said that, you've rightly admired Mark Plonsky's work and
you already have the 50mm lens. I would suggest you forget buying
anything until you fit an adapter and step ring combination on your
camera and use your 50mm. Nothing in filter sets is going to get
you anywhere close to Mark's work.

Cheers,

Don

Here are a couple of my galleries that use the Hoyas:
http://www.kleptography.com/gallery-mantis.htm
http://www.kleptography.com/gallery-garden.htm

--
Brian
Gallery: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/spiritmist/My%20Web%20Gallery/index.htm

 

[Don Ellis]

Hello guys,

Don-before I say anything else, I just want to tell
you that I really enjoy your work. Your IR galleries
were among the first I had seen, and are partly
responsible for my wanting to do IR digital
photography. Thank you. =)

Thank you... very kind of you. Good luck with your infrared.

I have also admired Mark Plonsky's work, and after
seeing his galleries decided I would try macro. I
have been using close up lenses for macro shots (since
I had access to some already), and although I am very
new to this, just wanted to mention the results of
some recent tests in case they would be of interest to
anyone.

Everyone mentions how more glass gives you more problems but I'm sure they're too small for me to notice. When I shoot +7, I'm going through four filters because I keep the UV on and add three close-ups. Obviously, at +17, I'm going through five layers of glass.

Stacking two +10s and a +7 on my S30 allows me to
capture a full frame shot with an area of 13x10mm at a
working distance of 26mm:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/spiritmist/My%20Web%20Gallery/images/13x10mm%20full%20frame%20at%2026mm.jpg

Thanks for this comparison. I read through Mark's explanation and he says he's getting +25 with his 50mm. So I'm definitely wrong to suggest you can't match that with filters (thanks for the subtle correction

Your samples are excellent. Considering the price of a 50mm, I may just buy another +10 Hoya, since the quality is better than the normal Hoyas and I get the extra diopters without a lot of extra glass.

Although I have read that image quality deteriorates
rapidly as you stack more than 2-3 lenses, I thought I
would also (just for the heck of it), try stacking
four. Stacking two +10s and two +7s allows me to capture
a full frame with an area of only 8x11mm at a working
distance of 19mm:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/spiritmist/My%20Web%20Gallery/images/Full%20Frame%208mm%[email protected]

As you probably noticed, image quality does not deteriorate rapidly with good glass -- at least to my eyes.

I haven't really done much yet with such
magnification, but here is one example of something
other than a ruler. =)

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/spiritmist/My%20Web%20Gallery/images/Three%20Sewing%20Needles.jpg

If you'd like to take a look, there are also some macros on my web
gallery that were taken with stacked close up lenses. As I said,
I'm new at this, but learning has certainly been fun.

I will take a look. In the meantime, here's a couple of links to a similar measure experiment taken with five layers of glass UV, +1, +2, +4, +10...

800-pixel shot...



2272-pixel shot (I'll let people click on this one)...
http://www.kleptography.com/dl/note2272.jpg

Thanks again for your comments, your input and your tests.

Cheers,

Don

 

[Paul D]

I use a reversed 50mm lens for macros (I think it's 1.4). I've been very happy with the results I've gotten. At first I held the lens in front of the G3 lens, then I tried duct-taping the 50mm face to face with a +4 diopter. While this allowed for greater magnification, I had to get so close to the subject that I had trouble lighting it. I'm most likely going to switch to a +1 diopter. I need to get a coupler ring, but I want to find one in town as I'd rather not pay $6 in shipping on a $7 coupler ring.

In another post in this thread you asked about opening the aperture on your Canon lens while it's off the camera, here's how I did it on mine:



Press down on points A and the button B. While you're holding these use a small flathead screwdriver to rotate the inner lens ring clockwise (in the direction of the arrow) using the metal point C.

It's kind of tricky, I was lucky to be able to push on point C clockwise (while holding button B) and then press on the two points A one at a time. The pressure of my rotating the inner lens ring held down the one point A while I pressed down on the second point A.

I know this sounds confusing, please ask for clarification if it doesn't make sense.

Here's a gallery on pbase I've got with my macro shots:
http://www.pbase.com/pauld1/macros&page=all

In many of them you can see the vignetting from the 50mm lens. I try to remember to take all my macro shots in RAW mode. There's so much detail you can crop out just the middle and still have a fantastic shot. (I did that with the first fern leaf picture in the gallery.)

I'd recommend you get a decent tripod. I'm using a Bogen 3021pro with a ball head. It's nice to be able to turn the center pole upside down or mount it horizontally when I need to.

--
G3
http://paulspage.org
http://pbase.com/pauld1

 

[christofurry]

thanks so much to you all who have posted. its been helpful. ill take out my fd lens sometime later, too much to do right now. thanks for the explanation, ill let you know later if i was able to figure it out. everyones shots look nice and crazy close up :-D thats what im after. hoya +10 sounds like an interesting investment. ill check it out. alrighty, i need to go now, thanks again! have a great day!

I use a reversed 50mm lens for macros (I think it's 1.4). I've
been very happy with the results I've gotten. At first I held the
lens in front of the G3 lens, then I tried duct-taping the 50mm
face to face with a +4 diopter. While this allowed for greater
magnification, I had to get so close to the subject that I had
trouble lighting it. I'm most likely going to switch to a +1
diopter. I need to get a coupler ring, but I want to find one in
town as I'd rather not pay $6 in shipping on a $7 coupler ring.

In another post in this thread you asked about opening the aperture
on your Canon lens while it's off the camera, here's how I did it
on mine:



Press down on points A and the button B. While you're holding these
use a small flathead screwdriver to rotate the inner lens ring
clockwise (in the direction of the arrow) using the metal point C.

It's kind of tricky, I was lucky to be able to push on point C
clockwise (while holding button B) and then press on the two points
A one at a time. The pressure of my rotating the inner lens ring
held down the one point A while I pressed down on the second point
A.

I know this sounds confusing, please ask for clarification if it
doesn't make sense.

Here's a gallery on pbase I've got with my macro shots:
http://www.pbase.com/pauld1/macros&page=all

In many of them you can see the vignetting from the 50mm lens. I
try to remember to take all my macro shots in RAW mode. There's so
much detail you can crop out just the middle and still have a
fantastic shot. (I did that with the first fern leaf picture in
the gallery.)

I'd recommend you get a decent tripod. I'm using a Bogen 3021pro
with a ball head. It's nice to be able to turn the center pole
upside down or mount it horizontally when I need to.

--
G3
http://paulspage.org
http://pbase.com/pauld1

--
christofurry

http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=523846

 

[AaroNZ]

Paul...thanks for posting that message and image. I have read the various posts on using a reversed lens and heard where the photographer has said you need to open the lens up(?) and tihs has been the 1st time I've realised what needs to be done. I have an Olympus Zuiko 50mm lens that I am wanting to use. Can I open it up on the SLR, detach it and place it on the LA without it changing?

In another post in this thread you asked about opening the aperture
on your Canon lens while it's off the camera, here's how I did it
on mine:

--
AaroNZ

G3 - WAITING...Waiting....waiting (backorder 10 more days!) _ _ _

 

[Paul D]

Well, on the Canon lens I have the aperture will close when you rotate the lens to remove it from the camera body. (Or when you remove the back end cap.) The trick is to press the right spots on the back of the lens to make it think that it's sitting on the camera body so you can rotate the aperture open.

I have no idea if the Olympus Zuiko lens works this way. It may be that the aperture stays open when the lens is off the camera body, if this is the case then you are all set. I have a 28mm lens that does this, but it's not usable as a macro lens because I get severe vignetting.

In another post in this thread you asked about opening the aperture
on your Canon lens while it's off the camera, here's how I did it
on mine:

--
AaroNZ

G3 - WAITING...Waiting....waiting (backorder 10 more
days!) _ _ _

--
G3
http://paulspage.org
http://pbase.com/pauld1

 

[christofurry]

what exactly are the advantages of using a 50mm lens? is it because its usually cheap? ..easy to find with wider apertures than most lenses? ..doesnt suffer vignetting usually? ..why not a wider lens or a telephoto? just curious.

I have no idea if the Olympus Zuiko lens works this way. It may be
that the aperture stays open when the lens is off the camera body,
if this is the case then you are all set. I have a 28mm lens that
does this, but it's not usable as a macro lens because I get severe
vignetting.

In another post in this thread you asked about opening the aperture
on your Canon lens while it's off the camera, here's how I did it
on mine:

--
AaroNZ

G3 - WAITING...Waiting....waiting (backorder 10 more
days!) _ _ _

--
G3
http://paulspage.org
http://pbase.com/pauld1

--
christofurry

http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=523846

 

[Paul D]

what exactly are the advantages of using a 50mm lens?

I woud say that probably the biggest advantage is that many of us come from an SLR backgrounds and have the lenses around.

is it because its usually cheap?

I see that B&H has a +18 diopter for $15 (30mm though). That's cheaper than I've seen used lenses sell for, so price may not be an advantage. The only thing here is that I'm not sure what my 50mm lens translates to in "diopter units" (anyone know the right word for that? ). I thought I had read that a reversed 58mm lens is equivalent to a +20 dipoter lens. Not sure on that though.

..easy to find with wider apertures than most lenses?

Not sure about this. I would think that a diopter filter would have a wider aperture, since it's not really a full lens but just a filter. (Technically I guess it is a lens, but with just one piece of glass, instead of an SLR lens that would have many lenses in it. Just guessing here though, I'm teh n00b.)

..doesnt suffer vignetting usually?

You do get vingetting, you can see it in many of these pics here:
http://www.pbase.com/pauld1/macros&page=all

..why not a wider lens or a telephoto? just curious.

The dissadvantage with a telephoto lens is that while it will allow you to magnify your shot, it won't allow you to focus on close objects. If my thinking is correct, it would lengthen the distance to a subject. Not sure on this, I'm just thinking it through in my head...

Hope all this helps...
--
G3
http://paulspage.org
http://pbase.com/pauld1

 

[Martin Gleit]

The dipoter of a reversed 50 mm is about +25 (what I have read). You would also be able to use a macro filter and then the 50 mm lens to get even more magnification...Why is it that Mark (who makes these fantastic macro shots) gets little or no vignetting at all with his g cam and 50 lens? I just bought the same pentax lens yesterday but still need the coupler ring to attach it to the cam....

what exactly are the advantages of using a 50mm lens?

I woud say that probably the biggest advantage is that many of us
come from an SLR backgrounds and have the lenses around.

is it because its usually cheap?

I see that B&H has a +18 diopter for $15 (30mm though). That's
cheaper than I've seen used lenses sell for, so price may not be an
advantage. The only thing here is that I'm not sure what my 50mm
lens translates to in "diopter units" (anyone know the right word
for that? ). I thought I had read that a reversed 58mm lens
is equivalent to a +20 dipoter lens. Not sure on that though.

..easy to find with wider apertures than most lenses?

Not sure about this. I would think that a diopter filter would
have a wider aperture, since it's not really a full lens but just a
filter. (Technically I guess it is a lens, but with just one piece
of glass, instead of an SLR lens that would have many lenses in it.
Just guessing here though, I'm teh n00b.)

..doesnt suffer vignetting usually?

You do get vingetting, you can see it in many of these pics here:
http://www.pbase.com/pauld1/macros&page=all

..why not a wider lens or a telephoto? just curious.

The dissadvantage with a telephoto lens is that while it will allow
you to magnify your shot, it won't allow you to focus on close
objects. If my thinking is correct, it would lengthen the distance
to a subject. Not sure on this, I'm just thinking it through in my
head...

Hope all this helps...
--
G3
http://paulspage.org
http://pbase.com/pauld1

 

[AaroNZ]

Ok bear with me...it's been a long time and I was never particularly knowledgeable in the first instance )

My Oly Zuiko 50mm is a 1.8 - 16 (correct terms?) and when I have it on 1.8 I cant see any of the curtains(???) but when I stop it down at all from there the curtains(???) are aparent only when I push a button on the side.

Now I know I havent used the right terms and that it probably doesnt make any sense but I think...my lens stays open which is good? Do I want the largest aperture, small number?

Another thing...how do I tell if it has mould? Would that be marks on the inside of the glass that can't be wiped off??

--
AaroNZ

G3 - WAITING...Waiting....waiting (backorder 10th March!) _ _ _

 

[Alpha143197]

In physics a 10 diopter lens is able to focus parallel light (coming from optical infinity) and the resultant image plane is 10 centimeters from the plane of the infinately thin ideal equivilent of the "real world" lens. Likewise a 1 diopter lens will have a focal point of one meter. A 20 diopter lens or lens assembly would have a focal point of 50mm.

In everyday optics manufacturing all spherical lenses have a power that is specified in diopters and it is usually referenced for practical reasons to the back surface of the lens. Every eye doctor has an instrument that can measure and display the diopter power of single lenses or small assemblies less than about 2cm thick.

I use a large 22 diopter single element aspheric lens at work and now that I have read about all these macro lens experiments I may try to rig it up to my G3 to see what it can do.

The dipoter of a reversed 50 mm is about +25 (what I have read).

The only thing here is that I'm not sure what my 50mm

lens translates to in "diopter units" (anyone know the right word
for that? ).

--
G3
http://paulspage.org
http://pbase.com/pauld1