photographing bright orange with white background

[lalachka]

i'm sorry for endless questions. I ran into another problem that i can't solve even after reading the book suggested and trying out other things suggested in my other thread

i'm not able to get true color for bright orange while at the same time getting the white background.

i can get pretty close to the true color here but the pic is mess. If i'm not able to take a good pic, how would this be edited? make a selection and delete the rest?



and here's the one of the versions with the white background



i tried everything i can think of. moving the lights and the camera, using black cards, trying different settings.

I'm pretty sure that i just didn't try right but i don't know how to fix it.

Here's my setup for the pic with the truest color.

I've tried different positions for the lights and camera but since I don't completely understand why this is happening (too much light, I'm assuming but I need that light for the white background), I was just moving stuff around with no purpose

The "good" pic is taken with both lights using half the power. About 150w I guess.

I kept going one stop up, and I already can tell that the orange is getting lighter. A few more stops and I will be back to the pink mess.

Been at it for 4 hours. Stumped.







Wanted to add why I'm so adamant shooting true color as opposed to taking the overexposed pink pic with white background and just fixing it to be orange.

It's because this is a very tricky color and I tried doing color changes before and I wasn't able to get it right. It was close but not there. So I doubt I can edit it to look good.

 

[crashpc]

The camera color filter array and the camera profile might change the expected outcome. I'd resort to processing your object and your background separately (using Lightroom or photoshop). Also reflective backround is very tricky.

 

[lalachka]

The camera color filter array and the camera profile might change the expected outcome. I'd resort to processing your object and your background separately (using Lightroom or photoshop). Also reflective backround is very tricky.

Thank you. I might have to. I don't even understand in theory how I can light the background and not overexpose the leash.

And yes, I know about reflective background being tricky . I've been at it for weeks trying to get reflections and white background At the same time. I'm able to, but running into color issues now.

So much to learn.

I will read about the color filter array and the camera color profile. Thank you very much!!

 

[Klaus dk]

First: use manual white balance. Let the camera manual guide you. When you use Automatic White Balance, the camera sees a lot of orange and shifts the picture towards blue. For product photography where you want accurate colours, manual white balance is only the first step.

Second: light the background separately. There are different ways to do this, but the pros would probably use a product table like this where you can light the background from below/behind.

The table linked to is just for illustration, I took the first I got on a search list. They come in many sizes and qualities.

 

[crashpc]

+1 to background lighting separation. More lights, more spread, it all helps a lot.

 

[csiluk]

Here's my edit to the one image. There was a lot wrong with it when I started to examine it. Lots of dust/dirt, some hair.

What WB are you using? I also see some blue material under the white plexiglass. Is your white plexiglass a little bit translucent? I would put white material under the plexiglass. Whether it be paper, cloth, etc. Not blue.




original




edit

 

[lalachka]

First: use manual white balance. Let the camera manual guide you. When you use Automatic White Balance, the camera sees a lot of orange and shifts the picture towards blue. For product photography where you want accurate colours, manual white balance is only the first step.

Second: light the background separately. There are different ways to do this, but the pros would probably use a product table like this where you can light the background from below/behind.

The table linked to is just for illustration, I took the first I got on a search list. They come in many sizes and qualities.

I do use manual white balance, I set it to daylight. I put it to auto at one point out of desperation and forgot to put it back but usually it's set to "daylight" and no difference.

Or did you mean to use the white or gray card and set it that way?

I have exactly that table bought from amazon, same listing, not using it here though but i do have it.

But I'm already lighting the back separately, aren't I? I have a softbox that's used as my background and my background light. Isn't that lighting the background from behind?

I will try with the table though. Never know

Thank you!

 

[csiluk]

Sorry, I forgot to try to make it more orange This ones probably closer.

 

[lalachka]

Here's my edit to the one image. There was a lot wrong with it when I started to examine it. Lots of dust/dirt, some hair.

Sorry, I should've mentioned it. These are test photos, don't waste your time fixing them

I'm just testing for true color. When I shoot for real I wipe everything first.

That's why you see all the dirt and dog hair



And your edit is nice but that's not the color. It's a very tricky color to reproduce.

What WB are you using? I also see some blue material under the white plexiglass. Is your white plexiglass a little bit translucent? I would put white material under the plexiglass. Whether it be paper, cloth, etc. Not blue.

Everything is white. I'm on f25, that's why the blue in front. Once I go to higher aperture blue disappears. On f18 blue isn't visible. But on f18 the color is really horrible looking. Also the reflections at f22-f25 look really nice and visible. That's why im using such small aperture.

And the side effect from that aperture is the blue front.

Plexi isn't translucent. It's thick and white.

WB usually daylight but I think on these shots it's auto. One of the desperate things I tried but it made no difference. It's the aperture that produces the blue.

That weird stuff you're seeing under the plexi is a black board with white paper taped to it. I was using it as a reflector for the shots before these, forgot to take it off.

I did later, here's a shot without it.

I took 100 pics, tried many things

original


edit

 

[csiluk]

Here's my edit to the one image. There was a lot wrong with it when I started to examine it. Lots of dust/dirt, some hair.

Sorry, I should've mentioned it. These are test photos, don't waste your time fixing them

No problem. It only took about 10 min for this one. Just trying to show you what can be done.

I'm just testing for true color. When I shoot for real I wipe everything first.

That's why you see all the dirt and dog hair

What WB are you using? I also see some blue material under the white plexiglass. Is your white plexiglass a little bit translucent? I would put white material under the plexiglass. Whether it be paper, cloth, etc. Not blue.

Everything is white. Why I get the blue in the front - I don't know. I'm on f25. Once I go to higher aperture blue disappears. On f18 blue isn't visible. But on f18 the color is really horrible looking. Also the reflections at f22-f25 look really nice and visible. That's why im using such small aperture.

That's odd. I hope you can figure it out.

And the side effect from that aperture is the blue front.

Plexi isn't translucent. It's thick and white.

WB usually daylight but I think on these shots it's auto. One of the desperate things I tried but it made no difference. It's the aperture that produces the blue.

 

[lalachka]

Here's my edit to the one image. There was a lot wrong with it when I started to examine it. Lots of dust/dirt, some hair.

Sorry, I should've mentioned it. These are test photos, don't waste your time fixing them

No problem. It only took about 10 min for this one. Just trying to show you what can be done.

I see what can be done you guys are amazing))))

I'm just testing for true color. When I shoot for real I wipe everything first.

That's why you see all the dirt and dog hair

What WB are you using? I also see some blue material under the white plexiglass. Is your white plexiglass a little bit translucent? I would put white material under the plexiglass. Whether it be paper, cloth, etc. Not blue.

Everything is white. Why I get the blue in the front - I don't know. I'm on f25. Once I go to higher aperture blue disappears. On f18 blue isn't visible. But on f18 the color is really horrible looking. Also the reflections at f22-f25 look really nice and visible. That's why im using such small aperture.

That's odd. I hope you can figure it out.

Are you saying this shouldn't happen at such small aperture? I figured that was a side effect, something to just accept. That's not true?

And the side effect from that aperture is the blue front.

Plexi isn't translucent. It's thick and white.

WB usually daylight but I think on these shots it's auto. One of the desperate things I tried but it made no difference. It's the aperture that produces the blue.

 

[lalachka]

Here's my setup



And you can see the table folded in the back





The blue I'm getting is only when I go to smaller aperture. F20, 22, 25. Anything under that the blue disappears. But I like small apertures because I'm getting nice reflections

Is it normal that I get blue at f25 or am I doing something wrong?

I will think on it later, whether I want to edit the blue out or increase the aperture.



But even with such small aperture, my orange is way too light. So once I open it up, it's even worse.



I will start all over again tomorrow.

First: use manual white balance. Let the camera manual guide you. When you use Automatic White Balance, the camera sees a lot of orange and shifts the picture towards blue. For product photography where you want accurate colours, manual white balance is only the first step.

Second: light the background separately. There are different ways to do this, but the pros would probably use a product table like this where you can light the background from below/behind.

The table linked to is just for illustration, I took the first I got on a search list. They come in many sizes and qualities.

 

[csiluk]

I just can't understand why changing the aperture has that effect. Have you tried lighting it from below? Just a thought.

 

[lalachka]

I just can't understand why changing the aperture has that effect. Have you tried lighting it from below? Just a thought.

From under the acrylic? I didn't but I will. It's thick, i didn't think light would go through it.

I don't know why it has that effect. I'm assuming not enough lighting. I will post some shots tomorrow with different aperture, nothing else changed. Just to make sure I'm making the right assumption

 

[crashpc]

I cannot see how aperture can change colors so much. It must be something different. Like, color shift based on overexposure of certain color channel.

 

[lalachka]

Are you talking about the blue or bright orange?

Bright orange isn't aperture, I don't know what that is

The blue I don't think is a change of color. I think it's darkening because it's not enough light. I get a similar result when setting shutter to 1/250 or 1/320, but it's more drastic. There's an almost black line in the front

I'm a beginner though and don't know much. Can very well be wrong. Just my guess based on the fact that i change nothing but aperture when the blue appears.

Also, the same blue appears on all sides when I turn down the strobe, like going to half power. So I'm thinking blue is somehow related to lack of light. Closing aperture lets in less light, so it also gets blue.

Just my guess.

Bright orange also probably has to do with lighting but in this case it's too much of it. Once I lower it, I get true color but then not enough light for the background to be white.

I cannot see how aperture can change colors so much. It must be something different. Like, color shift based on overexposure of certain color channel.

 

[crashpc]

Are you talking about the blue or bright orange?

It can touch all colors, but I was talking about the blue tint. You either have bad lighting, white balance off, or some colors are blown by overexposure. The aperture is "the lastest thing ever" I would think about, regarding your problem. Like, if someone described how he crashed his car, while it turned out, that he didn´t have legs.

It could happen, but you wouldn´t guess...

Bright orange isn't aperture, I don't know what that is

While we cannot se the real product, it can be about anything. Understand, that your vision is skewed more than the cameras vision, regarding colors.

That way, you might want to skew the colors to what you like, not what light actually falls onto the camera sensor.

The blue I don't think is a change of color. I think it's darkening because it's not enough light.

Yes, it can be, but then it doesn´t have anything to do with blue color itself.

I get a similar result when setting shutter to 1/250 or 1/320, but it's more drastic. There's an almost black line in the front

that´s okay. But once you get blue, something is off.

I'm a beginner though and don't know much. Can very well be wrong. Just my guess based on the fact that i change nothing but aperture when the blue appears.

Thet sounds better. Yes. Some other aspect goes hand in hand with that change. It´s not even matter of camera here. Just look at wiki how lens works, what it is made of, and then it must strike you, that except for very special circumstances with lens coating (made by manufacturer), there is no normal reason, why closing the aperture should add a color to your image, in this significant amount. That would be assumption based on hallucinogen ingestion, or so. (to keep it funny).

Also, the same blue appears on all sides when I turn down the strobe, like going to half power. So I'm thinking blue is somehow related to lack of light. Closing aperture lets in less light, so it also gets blue.

Just my guess.

Yes. that´s good thinking. But, again, with proper white balance and color exposure, it should be just darker, not turning to different color than white. I see it as a part of your problem, maybe...

Bright orange also probably has to do with lighting but in this case it's too much of it. Once I lower it, I get true color but then not enough light for the background to be white.

I believe so. The orange will change its characteristics once overexposed.

 

[csiluk]

Are you talking about the blue or bright orange?

Bright orange isn't aperture, I don't know what that is

The blue I don't think is a change of color. I think it's darkening because it's not enough light. I get a similar result when setting shutter to 1/250 or 1/320, but it's more drastic. There's an almost black line in the front

Shutter speed has nothing to do with the light from the flash. Shutter speed only affects the exposure for the ambient light in the room.

The black you are starting to see is the second shutter curtain starting to close. You are starting to go faster than your sync speed.

Also, the same blue appears on all sides when I turn down the strobe, like going to half power. So I'm thinking blue is somehow related to lack of light. Closing aperture lets in less light, so it also gets blue.

Just my guess.

Bright orange also probably has to do with lighting but in this case it's too much of it. Once I lower it, I get true color but then not enough light for the background to be white.

crashpc, post: 60785178, member: 1851565"]
I cannot see how aperture can change colors so much. It must be something different. Like, color shift based on overexposure of certain color channel.

[/QUOTE]

 

[David5833]

i'm sorry for endless questions. I ran into another problem that i can't solve even after reading the book suggested and trying out other things suggested in my other thread

i'm not able to get true color for bright orange while at the same time getting the white background.

i can get pretty close to the true color here but the pic is mess. If i'm not able to take a good pic, how would this be edited? make a selection and delete the rest?



and here's the one of the versions with the white background



i tried everything i can think of. moving the lights and the camera, using black cards, trying different settings.

I'm pretty sure that i just didn't try right but i don't know how to fix it.

Here's my setup for the pic with the truest color.

I've tried different positions for the lights and camera but since I don't completely understand why this is happening (too much light, I'm assuming but I need that light for the white background), I was just moving stuff around with no purpose

The "good" pic is taken with both lights using half the power. About 150w I guess.

I kept going one stop up, and I already can tell that the orange is getting lighter. A few more stops and I will be back to the pink mess.

Been at it for 4 hours. Stumped.



Wanted to add why I'm so adamant shooting true color as opposed to taking the overexposed pink pic with white background and just fixing it to be orange.

It's because this is a very tricky color and I tried doing color changes before and I wasn't able to get it right. It was close but not there. So I doubt I can edit it to look good.

I realize that you wanted to get it right in-camera, but if it is that hard, maybe editing is a reasonable solution.

I can't help with the camera's lighting/color issues because I don't do studio lighting and product photography, but I do have rudimentary skills with Photoshop/Photoshop Elements and it seems pretty easy even for me to select the acrylic background and brighten it.

I used the Magic Wand tool on the background, adjusted the tolerance slider and the refine edge parameters until the selection looked about right, and brightened the selection in Elements. I'm sure someone with more time or expertise than I would be able to do a better job, but here is a quick example. Now that I think about it, It would be even easier and faster to select the blue using the Replace Color feature, desaturate, and take the brightness up.



--
https://www.flickr.com/gp/143821723@N06/sRBm53

 

[lalachka]

Are you talking about the blue or bright orange?

It can touch all colors, but I was talking about the blue tint. You either have bad lighting, white balance off, or some colors are blown by overexposure. The aperture is "the lastest thing ever" I would think about, regarding your problem. Like, if someone described how he crashed his car, while it turned out, that he didn´t have legs.

It could happen, but you wouldn´t guess...

Now that I look at that pic again, you're right. Colors have to be skewed. It can be lack of lighting and that's why it changes with aperture but at the same time something is giving it a blue color as opposed to the background just darkening.

If it was just lack of lighting then it would be gray, dark but not blue. You're right. I got so hung up on the fact that this appeared when I change aperture that I became blind to everything else.

Bright orange isn't aperture, I don't know what that is

While we cannot se the real product, it can be about anything. Understand, that your vision is skewed more than the cameras vision, regarding colors.

That way, you might want to skew the colors to what you like, not what light actually falls onto the camera sensor.

For sure lol. I look at it 100 times and see something different every time. I hate photographing this color. Tried for years (not every day of course and not with good lighting and camera but still) and can never get it.

I use it on my dogs and I think I see it often enough to know this freaking color but every time I look at it, it gets a new shade. It's popular though, very bright and easy to see. Would like to get it right, if I can.

The blue I don't think is a change of color. I think it's darkening because it's not enough light.

Yes, it can be, but then it doesn´t have anything to do with blue color itself.

I get a similar result when setting shutter to 1/250 or 1/320, but it's more drastic. There's an almost black line in the front

that´s okay. But once you get blue, something is off.

You're right, it's so obvious now, not sure why I just accepted it as a side effect of aperture.

I'm a beginner though and don't know much. Can very well be wrong. Just my guess based on the fact that i change nothing but aperture when the blue appears.

Thet sounds better. Yes. Some other aspect goes hand in hand with that change. It´s not even matter of camera here. Just look at wiki how lens works, what it is made of, and then it must strike you, that except for very special circumstances with lens coating (made by manufacturer), there is no normal reason, why closing the aperture should add a color to your image, in this significant amount. That would be assumption based on hallucinogen ingestion, or so. (to keep it funny).

))) or based on being a newbie.

I doubt it's the camera. If something was wrong with the camera then I would be getting wrong colors for other colors as well but I'm not. It has to be me. I also have tons of stuff in the room, can it be that something is reflecting this color?

I will start over tomorrow with a fresh head, without assuming anything.

Also, the same blue appears on all sides when I turn down the strobe, like going to half power. So I'm thinking blue is somehow related to lack of light. Closing aperture lets in less light, so it also gets blue.

Just my guess.

Yes. that´s good thinking. But, again, with proper white balance and color exposure, it should be just darker, not turning to different color than white. I see it as a part of your problem, maybe...

Bright orange also probably has to do with lighting but in this case it's too much of it. Once I lower it, I get true color but then not enough light for the background to be white.

I believe so. The orange will change its characteristics once overexposed.