Will the 7DII have the "staying power" of the 7D?

The 7D-3 is rumored to be announced in Spring of 2018.

If the rumored Spec.'s hold up, and Canon has managed to design a new 28MP APS-C sensor with improved DR, & noise---; that sensor might be the predecessor for the 5DSr Mark-2; just as the 7D-2's sensor technology was utilized for the FF sensor of the 5Ds/5DSr.
 
is if the 7D3 was APS-H.

With enough resolution to be able to crop to 20 or 24mp at APS-C size, and accept EF-S lenses at this crop size.

That would be something special.
 
is if the 7D3 was APS-H.

With enough resolution to be able to crop to 20 or 24mp at APS-C size, and accept EF-S lenses at this crop size.

That would be something special.
If they could do that it would be da' bomb! I'd jump on one.
 
is if the 7D3 was APS-H.
It won't happen of course, if only because that wouldn't be a 7D. Also 1.3x crop falls between two stools - not full frame but it has to use full frame lenses so wide angle has always been a problem.

With the benefit of hindsight, it's a pity Canon didn't go for a 1.4x crop from the outset, for both the 1D and the traditional 'crop' market. A difference of exactly one stop has a nice symmetry to it. There could have been a small selection of L-class wide/standard lenses for 1.4x crop, as well as consumer-grade lenses similar to the ones which had always existed for the lower end of the film SLR market. Yes it would have made entry-level bodies more expensive, but non-pro digital SLRs were strictly for enthusiasts in the early days, so it's debatable how much difference another 20% on the cost of a 10D would actually have made. Meanwhile the 1D series could have cost less.

If only they'd put me in charge ;-)
 
is if the 7D3 was APS-H.
It won't happen of course, if only because that wouldn't be a 7D.
They can make whatever they want and call it a 7D Mark III.
Also 1.3x crop falls between two stools - not full frame but it has to use full frame lenses so wide angle has always been a problem.
It only has to use full frame lenses if you want to use the whole sensor. It could use EF-S lenses in a crop mode, no problem. I believe Nikon FX cameras can do this with their DX lenses.

Not using the whole sensor was only a problem when cameras were relatively low resolution, and cropping from 1.3x to 1.6x would have been a significant loss. Nowadays an APS-H sensor could be 36mp and you would still have 24mp in crop mode.

Barring a quantum leap that gives Canon sensors at least a 1 stop DR advantage over Nikon/Sony, I think this is the only thing Canon could do to leapfrog the 7D3 over the D500.
With the benefit of hindsight, it's a pity Canon didn't go for a 1.4x crop from the outset, for both the 1D and the traditional 'crop' market. A difference of exactly one stop has a nice symmetry to it. There could have been a small selection of L-class wide/standard lenses for 1.4x crop, as well as consumer-grade lenses similar to the ones which had always existed for the lower end of the film SLR market. Yes it would have made entry-level bodies more expensive, but non-pro digital SLRs were strictly for enthusiasts in the early days, so it's debatable how much difference another 20% on the cost of a 10D would actually have made. Meanwhile the 1D series could have cost less.

If only they'd put me in charge ;-)
Off topic, but interesting. I think in the days of the first and early digital Rebels, they were clamoring for all the consumer market share they could get, and that meant cutting costs wherever possible. This was probably wise, because now they have a solid base of consumers and prosumers hooked on Canon glass. If the least expensive Canon DSLRs were still out of reach for many people, then many more people would have simply started with Nikon or waited for something cheaper to come along like Mirrorless.
 
Also 1.3x crop falls between two stools - not full frame but it has to use full frame lenses so wide angle has always been a problem.
It only has to use full frame lenses if you want to use the whole sensor. It could use EF-S lenses in a crop mode, no problem. I believe Nikon FX cameras can do this with their DX lenses.
True for Nikon, but EF-S lenses won't fit due to the shorter back focus - a 1.3x crop mirror could hit the back of the lens.

This has been an issue throughout the life of the 1D series, it's not new.
Not using the whole sensor was only a problem when cameras were relatively low resolution, and cropping from 1.3x to 1.6x would have been a significant loss. Nowadays an APS-H sensor could be 36mp and you would still have 24mp in crop mode.
As it happens, Nikon's crop modes were introduced when sensor resolutions were still low. There were two reasons, neither of which applied to Canon. One was that it allowed them to publish higher frame rates (and buffer sizes?) to make their bodies appear more competitive; the other was that they had a legacy of professional level DX bodies and lenses from the days when they had no full frame bodies and were still arguing that DX was the way forward. So the crop mode went some way at least towards appeasing those owners - even if they quickly learned that it wasn't actually very useful.
Barring a quantum leap that gives Canon sensors at least a 1 stop DR advantage over Nikon/Sony, I think this is the only thing Canon could do to leapfrog the 7D3 over the D500.
With the benefit of hindsight, it's a pity Canon didn't go for a 1.4x crop from the outset, for both the 1D and the traditional 'crop' market. A difference of exactly one stop has a nice symmetry to it. There could have been a small selection of L-class wide/standard lenses for 1.4x crop, as well as consumer-grade lenses similar to the ones which had always existed for the lower end of the film SLR market. Yes it would have made entry-level bodies more expensive, but non-pro digital SLRs were strictly for enthusiasts in the early days, so it's debatable how much difference another 20% on the cost of a 10D would actually have made. Meanwhile the 1D series could have cost less.

If only they'd put me in charge ;-)
Off topic, but interesting. I think in the days of the first and early digital Rebels, they were clamoring for all the consumer market share they could get, and that meant cutting costs wherever possible. This was probably wise, because now they have a solid base of consumers and prosumers hooked on Canon glass. If the least expensive Canon DSLRs were still out of reach for many people, then many more people would have simply started with Nikon or waited for something cheaper to come along like Mirrorless.
Well, that's the thing we'll never know. A 1.4x crop would have meant a less affordable 300D, I won't deny that, but Nikon went half way with their larger crop sensor (1.5x) and they've done ok.
 
It only has to use full frame lenses if you want to use the whole sensor. It could use EF-S lenses in a crop mode, no problem. I believe Nikon FX cameras can do this with their DX lenses.
True for Nikon, but EF-S lenses won't fit due to the shorter back focus - a 1.3x crop mirror could hit the back of the lens.

This has been an issue throughout the life of the 1D series, it's not new.
Oh. Well then I guess that's that. The 7D line is the pinnacle of the Canon crop body line. Therefore it needs to support EF-S lenses.

Or does it? Seems like there hasn't been much development/advancement in the EF-S lens world. I assume the 17-55/2.8 is still a dust vacuum. Notice how the 80D is more capable than the original 7D was. Maybe make the ##D line the top croppers, and move the 7D into APS-H territory? Or leave it as-is and introduce a new APS-H body called... the 3D?
 
No sillier than releasing a Rebel with an nnD name...
The main difference is that Canon has never changed sensor size within a camera range. When the APS-H line was done, they came out with the new '1Dx' range rather than another Mk xx of the 1D series.
You remind me of the people here who insisted before the 5D3 came out that it would never have pro AF.

Yeah, an APS-H 7D is unlikely. But never is a silly thing to say.
 
... The 7D line is the pinnacle of the Canon crop body line. Therefore it needs to support EF-S lenses.
Or does it? Seems like there hasn't been much development/advancement in the EF-S lens world.
It's crazy that there is no high-end, weatherproof (i.e. L-class) standard zoom to match the high-end, weatherproof 7D2.

Years ago there was much talk on these forums about the need for a solidly-built EF-S 15-70mm (-ish) f/4 to roughly parallel the 24-105/4L, but it has never happened and the discussion seems to have fizzled out.

Maybe something will be announced with the 7D3 - we live in hope.
 
No sillier than releasing a Rebel with an nnD name...
The main difference is that Canon has never changed sensor size within a camera range. When the APS-H line was done, they came out with the new '1Dx' range rather than another Mk xx of the 1D series.
You remind me of the people here who insisted before the 5D3 came out that it would never have pro AF.

Yeah, an APS-H 7D is unlikely. But never is a silly thing to say.
There's an important difference: an APS-H body would not be compatible with APS-C lenses. As was pointed out earlier, it's not even just a matter of image circle; it's a matter of lens/mirror interference. Putting a pro-level AF system in a 5D body causes no such compatibility problem. And releasing what's essentially a high end Rebel with an xxD name is even less of a technical issue; it's just a name.

This just doesn't make sense. Aside from the fact that it would be very hard to shoot really wide angle with a 1.3x body, it would be splitting the difference between the 5D and 7D bodies. And to what end? The body would be a little cheaper than the 5D and a little more expensive than the 7D, with disadvantages of both in addition to the compatibility problem. And I don't see Canon coming out with a line of lenses (or even just a few) for a one-off body. What other bodies would make sense in APS-H? A 6D/80D cross? Again, to what end? The 6D (mkII) just isn't that much more expensive than the 80D.

The 7D series has a very clear mission: a pro/prosumer body with excellent action capabilities, in APS-C form factor, at an affordable price,
 
There's an important difference: an APS-H body would not be compatible with APS-C lenses. As was pointed out earlier, it's not even just a matter of image circle; it's a matter of lens/mirror interference.
That's not insurmountable, the mirror could be made to retract as well as pivot. (Not advocating APS-H, just making an engineering comment.)
 
There's an important difference: an APS-H body would not be compatible with APS-C lenses. As was pointed out earlier, it's not even just a matter of image circle; it's a matter of lens/mirror interference.
That's not insurmountable, the mirror could be made to retract as well as pivot. (Not advocating APS-H, just making an engineering comment.)
Which would make the mechanism more complex (and as such likely failure-prone) and likely slower (not what you want for action photography).

What I don't understand is what the advantage of this kind of camera would have over, say, the 5DmkIV. It would probably have a slightly faster frame rate, but still slower than an APS-C 7DmkIII. What's the problem that people really want to solve this way? Pixel-level image quality?
 
There's an important difference: an APS-H body would not be compatible with APS-C lenses. As was pointed out earlier, it's not even just a matter of image circle; it's a matter of lens/mirror interference.
That's not insurmountable, the mirror could be made to retract as well as pivot. (Not advocating APS-H, just making an engineering comment.)
Which would make the mechanism more complex (and as such likely failure-prone) and likely slower (not what you want for action photography).
Not necessarily. The challenge could result in innovation... We can't make blanket predictions.
What I don't understand is what the advantage of this kind of camera would have over, say, the 5DmkIV. It would probably have a slightly faster frame rate, but still slower than an APS-C 7DmkIII. What's the problem that people really want to solve this way? Pixel-level image quality?
I don't know, I'm just say mirror interference is not the sole and irrevocable reason why we don't have APS-H cameras that work with EF-S lenses.
 
is if the 7D3 was APS-H.

With enough resolution to be able to crop to 20 or 24mp at APS-C size, and accept EF-S lenses at this crop size.

That would be something special.
20MP APS-C crop would mean no increase in pixel density. No thanks. 24 is just barely more. Canon's biggest problem, IMO, is the lack of a "pro" body with high pixel density. TCs are a nice "fix", but they ruin phase-detect AF and add minor aberrations of their own, especially when you combine two of them. Smaller pixels do not, and can therefore be quite superior. The best I can hope for without getting dreamy is 28-30MP APS-C. 20MP->28MP is like a 1.4x TC as concerns pixels-on-subject, without the AF losses and halos and mild light scatter of a TC.
 
... The 7D line is the pinnacle of the Canon crop body line. Therefore it needs to support EF-S lenses.

Or does it? Seems like there hasn't been much development/advancement in the EF-S lens world.
It's crazy that there is no high-end, weatherproof (i.e. L-class) standard zoom to match the high-end, weatherproof 7D2.
Exactly. The EF-S line doesn't match the 7D line. So maybe the 7D3 doesn't need to bother itself with accommodating EF-S lenses.
 

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