X-T20 & 56mm f1.2 question.

[BritishDave]

Hi, as a new fuji owner – traded in my Canon 6d to get a x-t20 & 56mm f1.2 - I’d like to ask for some help and see if my expectations are ‘normal’

Normally I shoot studio and location stuff and with my 6d was getting about 90-95% in focus shots using a 70-200 f4 canon white usm lens – and at f4 (for a lens that is ½ the price) the focus was brilliant. The raws were a dream to retouch in terms of quality.

So now with the fuji I’ve found a LOT more out of focus, really struggling to get a technique that prevents this (fast shutter/low iso/low f stop and either tripod/monopod or very careful handheld.) whatever I do I’m getting 50-60% in focus.

Added I’m getting weird effects I’ve not seen on canon raw files. I get really rough texture effects (when looking at a face, think areas under neck, inner arms, chins etc.) This makes retouching even at an amateur level even more tough.

Processing I started with Lightroom, wasn’t impressed, went to Capture One for the month trail – not great but better, and now back on Lightroom with X-Transformer.

I’ve had the camera and 56mm f1.2 sent to fuji and no joy (though they did claim ‘adjusted focus’ on the lens I have evidence this actually did anything.

So really my question - as I've gone from full frame to crop sensor, am I expecting too much? I've got another email open to Fuji asking for possible help but so far after a week no further reply.

Here’s some samples :

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au-FSD59EnJNhKlMZ_J2SvvUwQWYjw – underexposed for the a little but on iso 200 there is an awful amount of ‘noise/texture/worms’ on the model’s face. I have not been able to get a reasonable ‘smooth’ tone to her face bar major frequency separation. Focus point was entirely covering her face, yet appears the focus is actually on the wooden pole which to me looks sharper.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au-FSD59EnJNhKlcdoq4fQ_wVEWQDQ ok so I used to love shooting wide open on my 6d and 85mm f1.8 and 50mm f1.4 – however on the fuji 56mm f1.2 – never got a single sharp image. At wide open this lens is nothing like the reviews and samples I’ve seen, I use this as a sample, but not matter how much I manual focus, auto or try to keep the eyes/face in focus nothing works.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au-FSD59EnJNhKlTejp0LDNburiiUg – so got the focus on this one – took until f4 to get focus, but going to my point on the ‘noise’ look at the models’ arms/legs there is a texture I just have not seen before.

 

[Doug Pardee]

Without looking at the Raw files...

What AF settings are you using? The Fujifilm AF system is quite complicated, with a couple dozen different behavior modes -- and that's not counting the 5 AF-C tracking options. There's quite a learning curve.

For subjects not in motion, you should be able to get solid focus. The only variable would be if the camera focused on the wrong thing. If you've still got the Raws on your SD card -- or can put them on the SD card -- you can bring them up in review mode on your camera and use the up-arrow to get to the information display. In the thumbnail, the focus point used is marked with a green cross. Alas, I don't know of a way to get a close look at where that is -- but the thumbnail should give you a general idea.

--
Co-founder of the open-source LightZone Project: http://lightzoneproject.org/

 

[myfujilife]

Hi, as a new fuji owner – traded in my Canon 6d to get a x-t20 & 56mm f1.2 - I’d like to ask for some help and see if my expectations are ‘normal’

Normally I shoot studio and location stuff and with my 6d was getting about 90-95% in focus shots using a 70-200 f4 canon white usm lens – and at f4 (for a lens that is ½ the price) the focus was brilliant. The raws were a dream to retouch in terms of quality.

So now with the fuji I’ve found a LOT more out of focus, really struggling to get a technique that prevents this (fast shutter/low iso/low f stop and either tripod/monopod or very careful handheld.) whatever I do I’m getting 50-60% in focus.

Added I’m getting weird effects I’ve not seen on canon raw files. I get really rough texture effects (when looking at a face, think areas under neck, inner arms, chins etc.) This makes retouching even at an amateur level even more tough.

Processing I started with Lightroom, wasn’t impressed, went to Capture One for the month trail – not great but better, and now back on Lightroom with X-Transformer.

I’ve had the camera and 56mm f1.2 sent to fuji and no joy (though they did claim ‘adjusted focus’ on the lens I have evidence this actually did anything.

So really my question - as I've gone from full frame to crop sensor, am I expecting too much? I've got another email open to Fuji asking for possible help but so far after a week no further reply.

Here’s some samples :

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au-FSD59EnJNhKlMZ_J2SvvUwQWYjw – underexposed for the a little but on iso 200 there is an awful amount of ‘noise/texture/worms’ on the model’s face. I have not been able to get a reasonable ‘smooth’ tone to her face bar major frequency separation. Focus point was entirely covering her face, yet appears the focus is actually on the wooden pole which to me looks sharper.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au-FSD59EnJNhKlcdoq4fQ_wVEWQDQ ok so I used to love shooting wide open on my 6d and 85mm f1.8 and 50mm f1.4 – however on the fuji 56mm f1.2 – never got a single sharp image. At wide open this lens is nothing like the reviews and samples I’ve seen, I use this as a sample, but not matter how much I manual focus, auto or try to keep the eyes/face in focus nothing works.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au-FSD59EnJNhKlTejp0LDNburiiUg – so got the focus on this one – took until f4 to get focus, but going to my point on the ‘noise’ look at the models’ arms/legs there is a texture I just have not seen before.

I’m on my iPad so I can’t look at these now, but here are some questions:

1. Are you using face detection?

2. Are you using AFC or AFS?

3. Are you using single point or zone?

I honestly have no issue with mine, but I’m using the 90f2 not the 56f1.2. That said, it shouldn’t make much of a difference as the photos I’ve seen out of the 56 are also amazing

 

[thedanj]

Try adjusting the size of your focus point. I shoot this same combo and am always shooting wide open or near to wide open, always handheld, and I almost never have a shot out of focus. (Here's one of many I shot yesterday.) Are you using single-point AF?



--
IG: @danielwestoverphoto

 

[myfujilife]

Hi, as a new fuji owner – traded in my Canon 6d to get a x-t20 & 56mm f1.2 - I’d like to ask for some help and see if my expectations are ‘normal’

Normally I shoot studio and location stuff and with my 6d was getting about 90-95% in focus shots using a 70-200 f4 canon white usm lens – and at f4 (for a lens that is ½ the price) the focus was brilliant. The raws were a dream to retouch in terms of quality.

So now with the fuji I’ve found a LOT more out of focus, really struggling to get a technique that prevents this (fast shutter/low iso/low f stop and either tripod/monopod or very careful handheld.) whatever I do I’m getting 50-60% in focus.

Added I’m getting weird effects I’ve not seen on canon raw files. I get really rough texture effects (when looking at a face, think areas under neck, inner arms, chins etc.) This makes retouching even at an amateur level even more tough.

Processing I started with Lightroom, wasn’t impressed, went to Capture One for the month trail – not great but better, and now back on Lightroom with X-Transformer.

I’ve had the camera and 56mm f1.2 sent to fuji and no joy (though they did claim ‘adjusted focus’ on the lens I have evidence this actually did anything.

So really my question - as I've gone from full frame to crop sensor, am I expecting too much? I've got another email open to Fuji asking for possible help but so far after a week no further reply.

Here’s some samples :

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au-FSD59EnJNhKlMZ_J2SvvUwQWYjw – underexposed for the a little but on iso 200 there is an awful amount of ‘noise/texture/worms’ on the model’s face. I have not been able to get a reasonable ‘smooth’ tone to her face bar major frequency separation. Focus point was entirely covering her face, yet appears the focus is actually on the wooden pole which to me looks sharper.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au-FSD59EnJNhKlcdoq4fQ_wVEWQDQ ok so I used to love shooting wide open on my 6d and 85mm f1.8 and 50mm f1.4 – however on the fuji 56mm f1.2 – never got a single sharp image. At wide open this lens is nothing like the reviews and samples I’ve seen, I use this as a sample, but not matter how much I manual focus, auto or try to keep the eyes/face in focus nothing works.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au-FSD59EnJNhKlTejp0LDNburiiUg – so got the focus on this one – took until f4 to get focus, but going to my point on the ‘noise’ look at the models’ arms/legs there is a texture I just have not seen before.

Hi Dave

Just had a look at the photos, there definitely seems to be some lens softness wide open which shouldn't be happening.. I have the 90 and I don't have issues with sharpness so I'll be honest and say I am surprised. This definitely doesn't seem to be acceptable.

I'd personally try to do some side by side testing with another 56 to identify whether it's a camera or lens issue, but my suspicion is lens.

The other possibility is the DR causing problems. What are your DR settings?

 

[Camnu]

Me too, I have a lot of out of focus pictures, maybe 1 out of 5 shots on people, and 1 out of 10 shots on static subject. I don't know why. If got it right, the image is very sharp. I think the issue is more on the camera than on the lenses, because I have about the same miss rate on my three lenses: the 18-55mm, the 23mm and the 56mm.

I shoot mainly in AF-S, single focus point. The focus point size is the 2nd or 3rd biggest. I shoot in S (single) or CL mode. I try to maintain the shutter speed above 1/100th; most are at 1/200th and above. I try to avoid shooting completely wide-open, so I rarely go wider than f1.8 for the 56mm lens, and f2 for the 23mm f1.4.

 

[Doug Pardee]

Is this still happening with the latest firmware?

If you have image review on -- where it shows you the picture you took right after you press the shutter release -- try turning it off.

 

[BritishDave]

Hi, thanks everyone for the replies.

So a little more detail. I have tried every focus mode, but 90% is now :

AF-S - shutter only when in focus. Camera is on a tripod or hand held trying to keep highest shutter speed. Single point focus only.

The green square is kept to being within the subject. I've learned the hard way that Fuji AF square is very good and picking up any background it may be slightly over.

So for example the face will be within the square and as large as it can be (the square that is!) and when close up the eye is entirely covered by the square.

I did a few times try the face detection but frankly never worked well enough (face, face and eye in combo) just missed focus too much for it to be worth the hassle.

I've downloaded the new firmware and will test it out this weekend. Failing that I've got to contact Fuji for a second visit to their repair place and see what they can suggest. I don't have any spare Fuji 56mm lens/body combos I can try or rent as comparison.

 

[Exit10]

Here’s some samples :

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au-FSD59EnJNhKlMZ_J2SvvUwQWYjw – underexposed for the a little but on iso 200 there is an awful amount of ‘noise/texture/worms’ on the model’s face. I have not been able to get a reasonable ‘smooth’ tone to her face bar major frequency separation. Focus point was entirely covering her face, yet appears the focus is actually on the wooden pole which to me looks sharper.

On this one the camera is reporting that you used single point focussing - and unless you used focus/recompose you focussed on wooden pole.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au-FSD59EnJNhKlcdoq4fQ_wVEWQDQ ok so I used to love shooting wide open on my 6d and 85mm f1.8 and 50mm f1.4 – however on the fuji 56mm f1.2 – never got a single sharp image. At wide open this lens is nothing like the reviews and samples I’ve seen, I use this as a sample, but not matter how much I manual focus, auto or try to keep the eyes/face in focus nothing works.

Looks like it focussed on the end of the nose and at f1.2.........

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au-FSD59EnJNhKlTejp0LDNburiiUg – so got the focus on this one – took until f4 to get focus, but going to my point on the ‘noise’ look at the models’ arms/legs there is a texture I just have not seen before.

 

[Cena]

Please let us know results after testing new firmware. Problems I had with X-T20 and 18-55 have mostly been solved!

 

[Bilbo_bobbins]

Try adjusting the size of your focus point. I shoot this same combo and am always shooting wide open or near to wide open, always handheld, and I almost never have a shot out of focus. (Here's one of many I shot yesterday.) Are you using single-point AF?



--
IG: @danielwestoverphoto

lovely photo by the way.

 

[BritishDave]

Ok so update from some more testing over the weekend. Added the new x-t20 firmware.

I started shooting a set with the same technique I usually do, but this time keeping to f4. starting with what I know - and I got a lot of sharp in focus shots. I feel this is more than I usually do.

So I starting playing with some new techniques and the first is changing my focus from the shutter to the up button on the selector buttons. I loved back button focusing on my canon - but my hands just don't feel comfortable with back button on the default focus button.

Now I felt a little more comfortable and added something which everyone will think is just weird.

So walking around, yes the x-t20 is perfect lightweight camera, but when shooting people I liked added a full grip and batteries to my canon 6d - and really miss a bit of weight to the camera. So with the Fuji hand grip it doesn't give enough extra 'weight' and bottom grip for the base of my hand - so I purchased some cheap Amazon Base plates to add to the bottom.

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amzn.eu

and added a clamp adaptor I already had. This gives a fair bit more weight to the camera but does allow my hand to rest against something and when holding for wide open I keep that camera much more still.

So bottom line, aside my weird weighting of the camera I really felt I can get some decent results at wide open and attach a couple of jpg raws.

 

[PinpinJr]

im in the middle of the way of getting between the 35 f1.4 and this lens, do this problem still occurs on you OP? this issue make me move more towards the 35..

 

[torppapa]

Hi, as a new fuji owner – traded in my Canon 6d to get a x-t20 & 56mm f1.2 - I’d like to ask for some help and see if my expectations are ‘normal’

Normally I shoot studio and location stuff and with my 6d was getting about 90-95% in focus shots using a 70-200 f4 canon white usm lens – and at f4 (for a lens that is ½ the price) the focus was brilliant. The raws were a dream to retouch in terms of quality.

So now with the fuji I’ve found a LOT more out of focus, really struggling to get a technique that prevents this (fast shutter/low iso/low f stop and either tripod/monopod or very careful handheld.) whatever I do I’m getting 50-60% in focus.

Added I’m getting weird effects I’ve not seen on canon raw files. I get really rough texture effects (when looking at a face, think areas under neck, inner arms, chins etc.) This makes retouching even at an amateur level even more tough.

Processing I started with Lightroom, wasn’t impressed, went to Capture One for the month trail – not great but better, and now back on Lightroom with X-Transformer.

I’ve had the camera and 56mm f1.2 sent to fuji and no joy (though they did claim ‘adjusted focus’ on the lens I have evidence this actually did anything.

So really my question - as I've gone from full frame to crop sensor, am I expecting too much? I've got another email open to Fuji asking for possible help but so far after a week no further reply.

Here’s some samples :

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au-FSD59EnJNhKlMZ_J2SvvUwQWYjw – underexposed for the a little but on iso 200 there is an awful amount of ‘noise/texture/worms’ on the model’s face. I have not been able to get a reasonable ‘smooth’ tone to her face bar major frequency separation. Focus point was entirely covering her face, yet appears the focus is actually on the wooden pole which to me looks sharper.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au-FSD59EnJNhKlcdoq4fQ_wVEWQDQ ok so I used to love shooting wide open on my 6d and 85mm f1.8 and 50mm f1.4 – however on the fuji 56mm f1.2 – never got a single sharp image. At wide open this lens is nothing like the reviews and samples I’ve seen, I use this as a sample, but not matter how much I manual focus, auto or try to keep the eyes/face in focus nothing works.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Au-FSD59EnJNhKlTejp0LDNburiiUg – so got the focus on this one – took until f4 to get focus, but going to my point on the ‘noise’ look at the models’ arms/legs there is a texture I just have not seen before.

The bad news: welcome in the Fuji (AF) world! I did the same (sold the 6D for Fuji) and after getting the Fuji (XT2 and XT20) the first disappointment immediately was AF. I have also the 56 f1.2 and I get also less keepers than I used to get with the Canon (with lenses brighter than f2.8). BUT if the Fuji AF hits, the sharpness is much better than with Canon lenses. (I m still speaking about apertures like f2 or f1.4 and NOT f4 which is also very sharp on Canon).

I have to say also that 80% of the photos with the 56 f1.2 are tack sharp but with the thin DOF of f1.2 it is very easy to get a slightly misfocused shot. But even in the cases if the eyes are not 100% in focus, you can see on the photo that there is a focus plain (mostly behind the eyes) which is tack sharp.

I could not see your RAFs since I m typing on a tablet, but the first general question is, if you haven t sharp focus plain at all or you have it but in the wrong depth.

Not having anything in focus at all would mean defective lens i.e. your 56mm sample is a lemon. Not having the the focus at the right place would mean, the lens is OK but you have to work on your focusing technique.

The good news: if the AF with the 56 mm f1.2 hits then it is so sharp I ve never had any Canon lens so sharp wide open (I mean under f2.8, because the 70-200 f4 is really amazing sharp but it is an f4 lens), but the fuji 56 f1.2 is much sharper than the 85 f1.8 on Canon.

and one more thing: I m considering to sell 1 of my Fujis and get another 6D just because of the "let down" by the autofocus. After selling the 6D I ve just kept my Canon lenses and an 5D (old first generation), so I m not so desasperate as you are maybe. But I m still thinking of selling Fuji because the AF is not what I wanted.

 

[tonyreidsma]

Honestly, the AF for stills is the ONLY thing I'm disappointed with my XT2 as it compares to my SONY A7 II.

I shot SONY A7 series bodies for 4 years and the AF / eye AF is almost always on, where as the FUJI AF hits any hint of the background, and the eye AF isn't very good compared to SONY.

Here's what I've done to work with mine:

• When using the 56/1.2 I'm using the small square and peg it on the eye, and I always chimp / punch in to double check.
• I use legacy glass or manual glass and manual focus as much as I can when time allows.