Leica M lens choice for use on Sony a7rii

[picnut]

I've been using a Sony a6000 and a7rii with several Sony and Zeiss lenses for the past couple of years with very good results. Absolutely no complaints. However, I recently decided to find out for myself if the Leica mystique would materialize for me. Certainly, most of the most important specs on the a7rii exceed those of the Leica digitals. Then I ran into an old friend who had been using Leica in recent years and was bitten by the same bug as other Leica users. So, I bit the bullet and bought a Q. I've had it for about a month now and used it almost exclusively even though the 28mm lens can be a bit limiting for some composition.

The photos I've gotten and the shooting experience have been so good that I'm now thinking about adding another Leica, probably an M. As an intermediate step I plan to buy a used M lens and an adapter that would allow me to mount it on my Sony cameras.

So, finally, my question. Which of the many M lenses out there would you suggest I get? I'm inclined toward the 35-50mm range since it will be my only lens for the M when I first buy the camera and the Q is 28mm.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

 

[JT26]

I have done pretty much exactly what you have done, and I am now pretty heavily invested in the M system but still have A7RII's... that I never, ever use.

If I were you, I would buy a Pre ASPH 50mm Summilux, 35mm is too close to your Leica Q... The 50 Pre ASPH work perfectly on the A7RII, no corner issues or colour smearing at the edges unlike the ASPH version, its razor sharp stopped down and its also got in my opinion the ultimate classic Leica Look with some spherical aberrations, it also flares in the sun and casts a gorgeous orange glow over the image!

While you say all the specs are better on the A7RII, the meaningful ones cannot be put onto paper. The enjoyment, experience, build quality, the stunning Leica look that you get with every M lens (not all the same / they just all look great in their own way)...

You are at the top of a slippery slope, but its a great slope to be on : )

--
https://500px.com/candidchris

 

[Sjak]

As an intermediate step I plan to buy a used M lens and an adapter that would allow me to mount it on my Sony cameras.

So, finally, my question. Which of the many M lenses out there would you suggest I get?

I am currently using a Fuji-body, but also am infected by the Leica-virus. My picks were some R-lenses (Summicron 90mm and Macro Elmarit 60mm) since these are typically more affordable than M-lenses of the same type. Leica/Leitz lenses typically keep their value too.

The shooting is so engaging with Leica-glass, the handling feels totally right and natural, and the optics, even after 40+ years, have a quality beyond any reproach. So well.... you know what direction I'm heading too....

My advice would be to define a budget, and then research what lens best matches your optical desire within this budget. Since you already decided on an M-cam, it makes sense to pick an M-lens right away. For general photography, based on what I've seen here and elswhere on the net, the 35mm and 50mm Summilux and Summicron are very good choices.

This site may prove a useful overview:

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www.l-camera-forum.com

 

[picnut]

I have done pretty much exactly what you have done, and I am now pretty heavily invested in the M system but still have A7RII's... that I never, ever use.

If I were you, I would buy a Pre ASPH 50mm Summilux, 35mm is too close to your Leica Q... The 50 Pre ASPH work perfectly on the A7RII, no corner issues or colour smearing at the edges unlike the ASPH version, its razor sharp stopped down and its also got in my opinion the ultimate classic Leica Look with some spherical aberrations, it also flares in the sun and casts a gorgeous orange glow over the image!

While you say all the specs are better on the A7RII, the meaningful ones cannot be put onto paper. The enjoyment, experience, build quality, the stunning Leica look that you get with every M lens (not all the same / they just all look great in their own way)...

You are at the top of a slippery slope, but its a great slope to be on : )

--
https://500px.com/candidchris

Thanks for the advice, JT. I agree with you re: 35 vs. 50. Do you have any suggestions on how/where to shop for the 50 and how to identify a Pre ASPH version?

Also, I can't help but ask why you're holding onto the a7rii(s), and probably, the lenses you have for it (them)? I think the most important spec superiority of the Sony lies in dynamic range. I find that to be a very useful characteristic. Have you compared them for DR performance?

Tomorrow I'm going to put a 16-35mm on the Sony, set it to 28mm and take a number of identical shots with it and the Q to compare. That should be enlightening, though IQ is only part of the comparison and I already know which camera I will enjoy using the most.....

 

[Aquarius2014]

I have done pretty much exactly what you have done, and I am now pretty heavily invested in the M system but still have A7RII's... that I never, ever use.

If I were you, I would buy a Pre ASPH 50mm Summilux, 35mm is too close to your Leica Q... The 50 Pre ASPH work perfectly on the A7RII, no corner issues or colour smearing at the edges unlike the ASPH version, its razor sharp stopped down and its also got in my opinion the ultimate classic Leica Look with some spherical aberrations, it also flares in the sun and casts a gorgeous orange glow over the image!

While you say all the specs are better on the A7RII, the meaningful ones cannot be put onto paper. The enjoyment, experience, build quality, the stunning Leica look that you get with every M lens (not all the same / they just all look great in their own way)...

You are at the top of a slippery slope, but its a great slope to be on : )

 

[snappu]

There are a ton, but the highly touted lenses within the current range are the 16-18-21 Tri-Elmar-M (WATE), 18 Super-Elmar-M, 21 Super-Elmar, 24 Summilux, 28 Elmarit, 28 Summicron, 28 Summilux, 35 Summilux FLE, 50 APO-Summicron, 50 Summilux ASPH, 50 Nocticron, 75 APO-Summicron and 90 APO Summicron.

The longer lenses work well on the A7's, but the wider lenses don't (only exception is the WATE). My personal favorite on my M9P/M10 are the 21 SEM, 35 FLE and 50 LUX. Among these, the only one that works OK on an unmodified A7 is the 50 LUX.

 

[JT26]

Thanks for the advice, JT. I agree with you re: 35 vs. 50. Do you have any suggestions on how/where to shop for the 50 and how to identify a Pre ASPH version?

Also, I can't help but ask why you're holding onto the a7rii(s), and probably, the lenses you have for it (them)? I think the most important spec superiority of the Sony lies in dynamic range. I find that to be a very useful characteristic. Have you compared them for DR performance?

Tomorrow I'm going to put a 16-35mm on the Sony, set it to 28mm and take a number of identical shots with it and the Q to compare. That should be enlightening, though IQ is only part of the comparison and I already know which camera I will enjoy using the most.....

When I had the Sony, the main issue for me, like you was IQ, and that I wouldnt be satisfied going from 42mp to 24mp on a worse performing sensor at high iso... I realised that my fears were all trash to be honest, modern sensors in the last 10 years all out perform even the best 50 ISO film, let alone the ones in cameras now... Nobody really needs 42mp as printing images is all about viewing distance, you view a 10x8 close, 20x16 not so close and a 6 foot by 4 foot print from a long distance away, relatively anyway so anything over about 12MP is almost a waste. 24, is plenty.

Do yourself a small test when looking at the IQ of the Q vs Sony, get the DNG from the Q and output the file to the exact same dimensions that the Sony file is, ie. make the Q a 42MP file and then compare them again, you will see literally hardly any difference at all. While you cannot create extra detail by doing this you can certainly refine all the details that were already there. The Q lens is a magnitude better than the 16-35 too.

DR on the Sony is very good, however its still good on the m262 that I have, when I have time tomorrow I will do you a comparison.

50 Pre ASPH summilux was made from about 1960-2003, these all share the same optics, only the first version differed slightly and that was made from 59-61. So buy any summilux from 61 onwards, so a serial number of around 19xxxx. The APSH version is this one.... avoid it for now with the Sony.



Sorry it was a rushed message, just off to work unfortunately!

--

500px

500px.com

 

[Sjak]

Thanks for the advice, JT. I agree with you re: 35 vs. 50. Do you have any suggestions on how/where to shop for the 50 and how to identify a Pre ASPH version?

When in doubt, check the serial of the lens advertised on the link I posted. That will give you information on the production year.

Ebay is a good place to get used lenses. Depending on your location, you may favor sellers from a certain country or continent.

I settled on German 100% feedback sellers with a physical store and clearly defined return policy.

Or check what local sellers in your area/country may have in store. Many stores here have a selection of used lenses. Some even specialize in it.

 

[picnut]

Thanks for the advice, JT. I agree with you re: 35 vs. 50. Do you have any suggestions on how/where to shop for the 50 and how to identify a Pre ASPH version?

When in doubt, check the serial of the lens advertised on the link I posted. That will give you information on the production year.

Ebay is a good place to get used lenses. Depending on your location, you may favor sellers from a certain country or continent.

I settled on German 100% feedback sellers with a physical store and clearly defined return policy.

Or check what local sellers in your area/country may have in store. Many stores here have a selection of used lenses. Some even specialize in it.

I live in western North Carolina. It's a wonderful place to live with lots of photo ops (e.g. 275 named waterfalls in our county alone), but unfortunately there are no good camera stores closer than a three hour drive away. The closest Leica store is in Washington D.C, an eight hour drive each way. So, I do almost all my buying online from the big guys in NY. Next month we're taking a vacation in Maine and will stop at the Leica store in D.C. That will be the first time I get my hands on an M, etc.

Thanks for the link. It's a keeper and will no doubt get lots of use ;-)

 

[Sjak]

Next month we're taking a vacation in Maine and will stop at the Leica store in D.C. That will be the first time I get my hands on an M, etc.

Watch out, you might walk out of the store with a lot less cash on you ;-)

Anyways, I found Leica a fascinating brand to dig into, and I'm sure you will enjoy the search and research as much as I do.

 

[Jay A]

I honestly hate to burst your bubble, but I have owned both Leica and Sony for awhile now and can honestly say the following;

1 - I have not yet seen any Leica lens that performs as well on an A7RII as the better native Sony nor Zeiss Loxia or Batis lenses. However they are absolutely stunning on an M camera (I've got an M-P).

2 - Although the A7RII uses a much higher resolution sensor, the Leica images look considerably better in prints up to about 24X30. Color and contrast is just done better by Leica. Print bigger and the Sony sensor resolution will probably show its advantage.

Not sure you want to hear this but my advice to anyone would be to invest in some of the higher end glass native to the Sony cameras instead of going with a Leica lens if it's the A7RII you really want. Take a look at the Zeiss Batis 21, 25 and 135, the Loxia 85, and the Sony 55, and 90 macro (if you do macro).

 

[JT26]

Agree in general with all you say, although one or two lenses work just at well. 50 lux pre asph, 90 cron apo or non, 50 cron, 135 app, 28 lux is pretty good though not as good.

The bit I disagree with is recommending Sony lenses over Leica, due to the OP wanting to push over towards Leica in the future maybe... buy lenses cleverly that don't lose money and work on both systems.

But yes in general Leica lenses on Leica bodies, and that's something I didn't want to believe until I bought an M.

 

[padam19]

You can try the latest updated 2016 versions of the 28/2.8 Elmarit 28/2 Summicron or 35/2 Summicron. They should work better with the newer sensors.

I've used the Leica Summilux 35/1.4 ASPH Pre-FLE and Zeiss Distagon ZM 35/1.4 and while both smear in the corners, in actual use it is not much of a problem, since I usually step it down to f8-f11 to get the depth of field and use wide-open apertures at closer ranges. Both are extremely sharp in the midfield. The Zeiss is a bit better for smearing, stronger contrast and considerably cheaper but the Leica is smaller, built better and balances better.

Also tried the Summaron 28/5.6 LTM, it is a bit soft in the extreme corners, but nowhere near as bad I thought, probably soft on a Leica body as well, so overall it works well but it may be too much for 42 Megapixels.