Best starter photo printer?

[Wil Ussery]

DVSh wrote: If you want to use third party inks, Octoink also sells inks for pro-100 or pro-10. It is also extremely easy to refill Canon carts. However, I would not expect the same longevity from third party inks as from OEM. P.S. pro-100 makes much better prints compared to 1500, especially B&W. Another option is to buy used Epson and convert to piezophotography, if you are going to print b&w only.

As someone who gained a reputation over many years for making and teaching how to produce the highest quality conventional silver-gelatin prints and subsequently, B+W digital origin prints to stand alongside those, I would greatly dispute your claim that the 1500 cannot produce top quality B+W. Read the article in my signature (technique devised by Helmut and myself) to find out how. The 1500 (and former 1400, 1410, 1430) are perfectly capable of producing the very highest quality B+W using only the one Black ink. I've been doing this for years for my own work and for teaching clients. As a guide, it can easily produce the full tonal and detail ranges in Keith Cooper's B+W Test Print, so the OP should note the statement is not exactly correct about only the Canon can do that.

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/test-image-for-black-and-white-printing/

--
Zone8: Although I am a handsome genius, when I stand in front of a mirror, I vaguely recognise the ugly idjit standing on the other side!
LINK: For B+W with Epson 1400 (and other 6-ink models) using black ink only PLUS other useful tips including update covering nozzle clearing:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400-B&W.htm
Cleaning DSLR Sensors, including Kodak DSLR Factory Cleaning method:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/KodakDCS-sensorcleaning.htm (Includes links to "bassotto's" images)
Solving back/front focus problems on Sigma and most other DSLRs
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/backfocus.htm
PDF format list of lenses you can print or download - covers Italian Flag YES/NO for DCS 14n but applies to others. http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/ItiFlagLensList.pdf

I just followed the steps outlined here http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400-B&W.htm to print the Black & White test image from http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/test-image-for-black-and-white-printing/ using an Epson Artisan 1430 printer.

The image does NOT produce the subtle shades of grey needed in the shaded areas of the deserted cliff area photo. Also in the Hood Canal Image, the detail in the sky is lost in my image. I barely see any clouds. If I darken the image in Lightroom using the Brightness option, then this will also darken the shaded areas that I already can't see in the deserted cliff image.

I'm using Ilford Classic Pearl and Ilford's ICC profile and following the directions around paper type and other options on the page above. Here are the highlights from the instructions page.

Procedure is simple and as follows:

Prepare your image and ensure it is converted to Greyscale in PhotoShop (or whatever post processing software you use).

Send to print and access the 1400 printer´s Properties area.

• On the first (General) page, select Best Photo (farthest right) from the top choices
• Select Plain Paper/Bright White Paper as the media - this is essential. Do NOT select the actual type of paper - you must choose Plain Paper
• Select paper size and orientation (Portrait or Landscape) as required
• Click on the Advanced button to enter the Advanced area page
• Select Greyscale, High Speed, Edge Smoothing options

 

[Zone8]

Wil Ussery wrote: I'm using Ilford Classic Pearl and Ilford's ICC profile and following the directions around paper type and other options on the page above. Here are the highlights from the instructions page.

Hi Wil. If you were correctly following the instructions you would have got the full tonal range and fine detail. I note you stated you were using Ilford Classic Pearl paper AND Ilford's ICC profile. That is not following the instructions as using any profile will render the procedure unable to work as described for B+W but obviously, OK for colour printing. I did mention I use (now - was inkjetfly pigment inks but Leo Chang has closed shop) Image Specialists pigment inks from Octoink in UK but for me no actual difference as Leo also used the IS Matte Black as he could not attain the same D-Max formulating his own Black. So I can only assume if you used the Profile as mentioned, you would have totally over ridden the procedure. Hope that can clarify. Note that many clients (mostly members of the Zone 8 PS) use this method so it really is not just me that claims being able to print Keith's test image with full detail and subtle tonal values. Regards!

 

[Wil Ussery]

Wil Ussery wrote: I'm using Ilford Classic Pearl and Ilford's ICC profile and following the directions around paper type and other options on the page above. Here are the highlights from the instructions page.

Hi Wil. If you were correctly following the instructions you would have got the full tonal range and fine detail. I note you stated you were using Ilford Classic Pearl paper AND Ilford's ICC profile. That is not following the instructions as using any profile will render the procedure unable to work as described for B+W but obviously, OK for colour printing. I did mention I use (now - was inkjetfly pigment inks but Leo Chang has closed shop) Image Specialists pigment inks from Octoink in UK but for me no actual difference as Leo also used the IS Matte Black as he could not attain the same D-Max formulating his own Black. So I can only assume if you used the Profile as mentioned, you would have totally over ridden the procedure. Hope that can clarify. Note that many clients (mostly members of the Zone 8 PS) use this method so it really is not just me that claims being able to print Keith's test image with full detail and subtle tonal values. Regards!

 

[Gesture]

Does it have to be the 1500? What about any Epson printer that has Black Only option in the print driver?????

 

[Zone8]

Gesture wrote: Does it have to be the 1500? What about any Epson printer that has Black Only option in the print driver?????

First this one. Helmut and I (we originally co-operated on this research) found any Epson with six inks, meaning only one Black, could use this method. I cannot really see why any other Epson could not also do this if only one Black ink. I know in my (now defunct, which is why I opted to get a 1500 alongside my 1400, before the 1500 disappeared, replaced by Workforce models) office Epson DX7400 all-in-one which only had 4 inks, dye ones, using Grayscale with any paper selected worked fine, producing neutral B+W prints - well, neutral depending on how the paper affected the ink of course. Some were slightly Greenish, others slightly Magentaish. I have kept the AIO as its scanner works fine for any copying work. For printing, due a small item breaking off, it now sprays ink and as always, repairs are not worthwhile - cheaper to get a new printer.

Regarding the other post, yes essential to not use any profile - in effect, one is using the Epson Plain Paper profile and that will work fine with the inks - dye or pigment, although again, the paper can change dye Black output, so I always use Watercolour papers for pigment inks but Epson Archival Matte is OK for dye and pigment for colour printing, in case that helps anyone. Also, as I am now using the Image Specialists pigment inks from www.octoink.co.uk, I believe, from general reports in this forum over time, their dye inks are also highly regarded - but as already warned, all dye inks seem to be to some extent controlled by the choice of paper, profiles or not so over time may well change characteristics.

I'm away from base from the early hours, so may not be able to post for more than a week.

--
Zone8: Although I am a handsome genius, when I stand in front of a mirror, I vaguely recognise the ugly idjit standing on the other side!
LINK: For B+W with Epson 1400 (and other 6-ink models) using black ink only PLUS other useful tips including update covering nozzle clearing:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400-B&W.htm
Cleaning DSLR Sensors, including Kodak DSLR Factory Cleaning method:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/KodakDCS-sensorcleaning.htm (Includes links to "bassotto's" images)
Solving back/front focus problems on Sigma and most other DSLRs
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/backfocus.htm
PDF format list of lenses you can print or download - covers Italian Flag YES/NO for DCS 14n but applies to others. http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/ItiFlagLensList.pdf

 

[lucidum]

I have a Canon IP7250 which is also a decent&cheap photo printer. It has regular CMYK ink setup and a relatively small footprint. If you don't like home printing concept then you wouldn't lose much. But if you like to continue printing you would want to try canon pro or equivalent epson series anyway.

Luc

 

[calson]

With inkjet printing it is the cost of the paper at $1 for an 8x10 and the ink that factor the most into your cost per print produced. The cheaper printers use much smaller ink cartridges and so you pay a great deal more for the ink per square inch of printing.

Cheaper in the long run is a tank kit that you can fit to your printer. Most I have seen are for the Epson printers. I would start with the available kits and use this to make a short list of printers.

For 8x10 prints I go to Costco where the cost per print is less than the cost of the sheet of inkjet paper alone. For larger prints I use a color lab as it is still much cheaper than buying a printer and paper and ink. Only when one gets to 11 x 17 size prints is it a breakeven proposition if one ignores the personal time involved for the inkjet printing.

For 20x30 and larger prints I still prefer a lab as they will do the mounting and I have the choice of 6 different backing media and no need to buy a large mount press or provide the space needed. I can upload files on Sunday and have the mounted prints delivered to my door on Tuesday.

 

[NAwlins Contrarian]

With inkjet printing it is the cost of the paper at $1 for an 8x10 .... For 8x10 prints I go to Costco where the cost per print is less than the cost of the sheet of inkjet paper alone.

No--or at least certainly not in the U.S., although I don't know photo paper prices in the U.K. / for A4 size (8.3x11.7 inches). But in the U.S., printer-brand inkjet paper in 8x10 and/or 8.5x11 inch size starts at about $0.13 per sheet, and even the most expensive standard photo paper that size from Canon or Epson is only about $0.50 per sheet. There are also some intermediate grades / prices.

Canon papers in 8.5x11 inch size start with Canon GP-701 Photo Paper Glossy at about $0.19 per sheet ($18.75 for 100 sheets). The nicer Canon papers are more expensive, but Canon LU-101 Photo Paper Pro Luster, Canon PP-301 Photo Paper Plus Glossy II, and Canon SG-201 Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss all work out to about $0.40 to $0.43 per 8.5x11 inch sheet. In the U.S. at least (again, don't know about the U.K.), a couple of times per year Canon runs specials on paper that often have buy 1 get 4 free or even buy 1 get 9 free on certain Canon papers.

Epson papers in 8.5x11 inch size start with Epson Value Photo Paper Glossy at $0.13 per sheet (100 sheets for $13.38). The upper-end Epson standard photo papers are $0.46 to $0.50 per 8.5x11 inch sheet: Epson Ultra Premium Photo Paper Luster, Epson Ultra Premium Photo Paper Glossy, and Epson Premium Photo Paper Semi-Gloss.

Yes, you can spend more than that on paper. But then it's specialty paper substantially different from anything you can get at Costco or Mpix.

Big picture: again, I don't know about the U.K., but around here Costco Photo Center prints are $1.79 each for the 8x10 and/or 8x12 inch sizes. Using Red River Paper's ink consumption estimates, a Canon Pro-100 can make an 8.5x11 inch print on Canon GP-701 Photo Paper Glossy for $1.21, or on Canon LU-101 Photo Paper Pro Luster for $1.42. If you just print an 8x10 inch area, the costs go down to $1.06 and $1.27, respectively. My little Epson R280 costs a bit more per print. But at this size range, the cost of printing at home versus printing at Costco is very similar.

 

[farmersteve]

Canon high end pro paper is essentially free when you get one of their deals. I don't even consider the prices of paper at all since it's near Zero for anything up to 13" wide but only if you get one of those crazy Canon deals. Ink on the otherhand is relatively expensive, but I don't think it's more than $.50 for a 8x10 print.