Why shoot 10 bit 422 if finished product will be 8 bit 420?

[Paul250]

Any advantage of shooting 10 bit 422 on my GH5 when I have heard its MORE compressed at 150mbps than the 8 bit 420 option at 100mbps.

My finished product is usually a 1080p h.264 8 bit 420 video at 15mbps for viewing on 5" smartphone screens etc.

I understand the grading advantages.. but surely that gets undone when I export like that?

Thanks.

 

[Vesku]

Any advantage of shooting 10 bit 422 on my GH5 when I have heard its MORE compressed at 150mbps than the 8 bit 420 option at 100mbps.

My finished product is usually a 1080p h.264 8 bit 420 video at 15mbps for viewing on 5" smartphone screens etc.

I understand the grading advantages.. but surely that gets undone when I export like that?

Thanks.

At least you can charge more for editing hours

I think GH5 has also 1080P 10bit option. It may be useful if you grade colors dramatically.

 

[Paul250]

It does have a 1080p 10 bit 422 option, but I render out 8 bit 420 so they can be played on a smartphone. I'm not sure if smartphones can play anything else.

 

[Vesku]

It does have a 1080p 10 bit 422 option, but I render out 8 bit 420 so they can be played on a smartphone. I'm not sure if smartphones can play anything else.

You can render out 8 bit from 10bit. 10bit is better if you want to grade colors heavily. I think 8 bit is usually enough and easier to work with. GH5 1080P is very good and there is not so much need to down sample from 4k like with GH4 or most 4k cameras.

 

[GodSpeaks]

You say you understand the grading advantages, yet you ask the question. Are you sure you really understand?

 

[Paul250]

You say you understand the grading advantages, yet you ask the question. Are you sure you really understand?

Yes I understand exactly the difference in them, but I don't understand what happens when exported to 8 bit 420. Does it help if the original was 10 bit 422?

Maybe there is an export option of 10 bit 422 that will play on smartphones? I have been exporting 420 8bit h.264 so people can download them from dropbox and play them easily on their Androids etc. I do this mostly as a hobby.

 

[LingoDingo]

HDR TV sets are going to arrive in stores this Summer, and they will require cameras that can shoot 10-bit 4;2:2 or HLG ( hybrid log gamma ) formats to show what HDR is all about. This won't be a big deal right away, but moving forward eventually all TVs produced will be HDR sets. ( this also means that 10-bit HDR computer monitors are also going to become common over the next couple of years )

Several of the Sony and Panasonic professional cameras are going to get HLG firmware upgrades to support this new 10-bit format, including the Panasonic GH5 later this Summer.

HLG ( hybrid log gamma ) is also a TV broadcast standard that will be supported later this year after the HDR TV sets, so lots of things are going to change this year.

 

[Paul250]

HDR TV sets are going to arrive in stores this Summer, and they will require cameras that can shoot 10-bit 4;2:2 or HLG ( hybrid log gamma ) formats to show what HDR is all about. This won't be a big deal right away, but moving forward eventually all TVs produced will be HDR sets. ( this also means that 10-bit HDR computer monitors are also going to become common over the next couple of years )

Several of the Sony and Panasonic professional cameras are going to get HLG firmware upgrades to support this new 10-bit format, including the Panasonic GH5 later this Summer.

HLG ( hybrid log gamma ) is also a TV broadcast standard that will be supported later this year after the HDR TV sets, so lots of things are going to change this year.

Interesting yeah its clearly a good idea to shoot best quality now so for future playback. Don't suppose you know if there is any 422/10 bit export option that would currently play on an android?.. But again I'm still not sure if I am wasting my time shooting in 422 10 bit when, for now, I will be exporting 420 8 bit for compatibility.

 

[Baron LaCat]

I considered shooting in 10 bit 422 UHD (to acquire the deeper colours) then transcoding it down to 1080p with Footage Studio 4K.

But I am not sure this has any advantage over shooting at 8bit 420 UHD and transcoding it down to 1080p. Thoughts ?

Baron

 

[LingoDingo]

Don't suppose you know if there is any 422/10 bit export option that would currently play on an android?

I guess it will depend on the CPU/GPU of the Android device and the video player.

I plan on buying a GH5 within the next two weeks ( I am working away from home for the next week ), and I own four Android devices, including two brand new ASUS 9.7 inch ZenPads. I'll have to see if I can play 1080p 10-bit 4:2:2 native footage directly from the GH5.

 

[KrisAK]

Any advantage of shooting 10 bit 422 on my GH5 when I have heard its MORE compressed at 150mbps than the 8 bit 420 option at 100mbps.

My finished product is usually a 1080p h.264 8 bit 420 video at 15mbps for viewing on 5" smartphone screens etc.

I understand the grading advantages.. but surely that gets undone when I export like that?

Thanks.

How do folks evaluate the 10-bit footage they're editing? Are GH5 users actually upgrading their graphics cards and monitors to support a 10-bit workflow? Or getting a dedicated output board and grading monitor? If not, then aren't you essentially working in the dark...unable to see a "true" 10-bit signal.

Or is there a cheaper way to see those extra 2 bits?

 

[Sean Nelson]

How do folks evaluate the 10-bit footage they're editing? Are GH5 users actually upgrading their graphics cards and monitors to support a 10-bit workflow? Or getting a dedicated output board and grading monitor? If not, then aren't you essentially working in the dark...unable to see a "true" 10-bit signal.

You don't have to see the results while editing to benefit from the more accurate colour registration for things like green screen work or serious grading. Just as you don't need a monitor capable of displaying 16 bits of colour depth of benefit from manipulating still photos shot in raw format.

 

[LingoDingo]

I am waiting to see if the price of 10-bit computer monitors comes down this year. I really don't want to have to spend more than $1K on a new editing monitor right now.

 

[Paul250]

I considered shooting in 10 bit 422 UHD (to acquire the deeper colours) then transcoding it down to 1080p with Footage Studio 4K.

But I am not sure this has any advantage over shooting at 8bit 420 UHD and transcoding it down to 1080p. Thoughts ?

Baron

This is why I started this thread to ask this question. Its more work, but is it worth it. Im going to experiment anyway.

 

[KrisAK]

Any advantage of shooting 10 bit 422 on my GH5 when I have heard its MORE compressed at 150mbps than the 8 bit 420 option at 100mbps.

My finished product is usually a 1080p h.264 8 bit 420 video at 15mbps for viewing on 5" smartphone screens etc.

I understand the grading advantages.. but surely that gets undone when I export like that?

Thanks.

This seems relevant:

http://wolfcrow.com/blog/thoughts-on-comparing-8-bit-and-10-bit-footage-from-the-panasonic-gh5/

(Basically, wait for the 400Mbps update. The 150 is too compressed.)

 

[JerryriggedTECH]

Any advantage of shooting 10 bit 422 on my GH5 when I have heard its MORE compressed at 150mbps than the 8 bit 420 option at 100mbps.

My finished product is usually a 1080p h.264 8 bit 420 video at 15mbps for viewing on 5" smartphone screens etc.

I understand the grading advantages.. but surely that gets undone when I export like that?

Thanks.

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that it is like shooting photos in Raw. You will eventually output them as JPEGs, but by shooting in Raw, you have much more latitude to edit. Those edits are locked in when the jpegs are generated. The jpegs don't have all the same latitude as the Raws, but once edited, you don't need to still be able to pull shadows, etc.

 

[Paul250]

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that it is like shooting photos in Raw. You will eventually output them as JPEGs, but by shooting in Raw, you have much more latitude to edit. Those edits are locked in when the jpegs are generated. The jpegs don't have all the same latitude as the Raws, but once edited, you don't need to still be able to pull shadows, etc.

Very well put. Thanks.

 

[Paul250]

(Basically, wait for the 400Mbps update. The 150 is too compressed.)

Thanks but he also said:

As we saw above, 10-bit 4:2:2 should have a data rate of 280 Mbps in interframe. But the 400 Mbps option will arrive as an intraframe codec. Therefore:

Necessary data rate: 280 Mbps x 2 = 560 Mbps

This is the data rate the GH5 needs in 10-bit 4:2:2 just to be better than 100 Mbps 8-bit 4:2:0. However, the GH5 will only have a 400 Mbps option internally. If you need more, you need to attach an external recorder and record Prores HQ, which has a maximum data rate of 880 Mbps.

That doesn't sound good unless you are recording externally.. so why bother offering this internal option of 150 IBP and 400 ALL-I.

 

[Baron LaCat]

Discovered that TMPGenc 6 can edit and export 4K 10Bit 422 30P video files

Baron

 

[LingoDingo]

Discovered that TMPGenc 6 can edit and export 4K 10Bit 422 30P video files

Good to know. I've been looking for an excuse to upgrade my old TMPGenc license.