Is this lens a defected

[lvuhn281]

Hello guys! I've just bought a (used) Nikkor 80-200mm f/2.8D ED. IQ is gorgeous, the lens is a bit heavy but everything else is just great. However, I started to notice that sometimes I get a weird interrupted diagonal pattern in the out of focus area, especially when I shoot with a background full of leaves and trees (as shown below). I don't find it super ugly but sometimes it's annoying not knowing what it is or where it comes from. I did some googling and couldn't find people talking about this problem anywhere, and none of my friends knows when I ask them. So, I just want to know your opinions/advice on this: Has any of you encountered this before (and with what lens)? What do you think about it aesthetically? Do you think it's a defect that I should try to do something about? This is my first time posting a question here so I'm sorry if it's the wrong section. Thank you all!

 

[PHXAZCRAIG]

If I'm interpreting this right, you are complaining about the bokeh pattern, which I think is sometimes described as 'nervous bokeh'.

I don't think it's a defect of the lens, but it is due to the design of the lens and all of them will do that in the same situation. I think it is due to the use of ED elements - you trade off some CA control for nervous bokeh and better sharpness.

The results should be different with different apertures, so experiment. All lenses have strengths and weaknesses, and you should always be aware of them so you can work around the weaknesses.

Just to be sure we're talking about the same thing (nervous bokeh), does the following image have the same type of problem you are seeing?




see nervous bokeh in the stick behind the rabbit. 18-200vr lens.



--
Phoenix Arizona Craig
www.cjcphoto.net

 

[lvuhn281]

I do acknowledge the nervous bokeh, if that means "busy" or "distracting" bokeh, which I actually don't mind. What I'm talking about is a very specific pattern that looks like someone gradually scratches my photo with a fork. I'm not sure if you can see it clearly in my pics above but below here is a bigger magnification. I don't recognize the same thing in your pic (but I see what you mean) To be honest, I'm not really complaining because I'm not very crazy about all the bokeh stuff. It's just that I feel curious and want to know the nature of it, and if it's the sign of a defect, then I should bring it to service find out. By the way, thanks for teaching me the term "nervous bokeh" I didn't know we had that word to describe it

 

[WindwardHaole]

The diagonal pattern may be caused by something on, or in, one of the internal elements. Photographing some out of focus points of light, lights at night are ideal, should more clearly show the issue. Have you visually examined the lens' elements, are you using a lens filter? The problem is not normal and the lens is capable of excellent IQ.

 

[Marianne Oelund]

Hello guys! I've just bought a (used) Nikkor 80-200mm f/2.8D ED. IQ is gorgeous, the lens is a bit heavy but everything else is just great.

Overall, your examples are showing a lens that is distinctly under-performing. Images are soft and seem to have excessive CA.

However, I started to notice that sometimes I get a weird interrupted diagonal pattern in the out of focus area, especially when I shoot with a background full of leaves and trees (as shown below). I don't find it super ugly but sometimes it's annoying not knowing what it is or where it comes from.

If you are using a filter on the lens, take it off and try again.

I did some googling and couldn't find people talking about this problem anywhere, and none of my friends knows when I ask them. So, I just want to know your opinions/advice on this: Has any of you encountered this before (and with what lens)?

If the lens does this without a filter on it, there is definitely something amiss.

What do you think about it aesthetically? Do you think it's a defect that I should try to do something about?

I find these images aesthetically unacceptable. They shouldn't look like that, and if you confirm that the lens is the cause, you should return it.

 

[public_af_lobster]

Wow, initially would have chalked it up to light pattern as it is most pronounced in the photo with lots of lighter areas vs not noticeable in photo with more dark areas. Unusual to have so many even straight striations and not circular as threads.

Hopefully, as mentioned possibly something on elements front/back and not in between. Try shining bright light on either end, and through to see if bad cleaning residual fluid or if perfect scratches...though the pattern is on edges and does not seem to go through your subjects.

On the off chance clean your lens, sensor?, and take a few more test shots at higher shutter speeds, smaller f-stops, moderate iso, 0 EV, good even light, plain lens...borrow another body to compare?

Shameless plug...for examples of cleaner bokeh, see Challenge 245 on Nikon DX forum...

 

[PHXAZCRAIG]

Seeing that segment blown up makes me agree with others - something is different about that lens that is not right. Do you have a filter on there?

I have a number of shots made with my old push-pull 80-200 F2.8 AF-D at a Renaissance Festival a few years ago on a D700. The EXIF data should be intact on the large (non-thumbnail) shots here: http://www.cjcphoto.net/renfaire2011/index.html

I don't think I have any shots with your kind of bokeh. I also almost never shoot through a filter, except the occasional use of a polarizer. Because of a bit of softness and lowered contrast wide open, I generally shot this lens at F3.5 or F4. This is a typical shot:

--
Phoenix Arizona Craig
www.cjcphoto.net

 

[lvuhn281]

Totally makes sense! I should have thought about the filter. Internal elements look clean enough but I still have the old filter on - the one from the previous owner, and I guess it's not of good quality. I will do the night test tomorrow and upload the picture afterward. Thank you for your suggestion!

 

[lvuhn281]

I just did a quick test, and to me it seems like the filter was the problem. In the photo taken without it I don't see that pattern anymore, but it's just me, I'd appreciate if you could give some more thoughts. I'll still do the night test tonight as NikonHaoleboy has suggested to be sure.


Filter on


Filter off

 

[lvuhn281]

Hello guys! I've just bought a (used) Nikkor 80-200mm f/2.8D ED. IQ is gorgeous, the lens is a bit heavy but everything else is just great.

Overall, your examples are showing a lens that is distinctly under-performing. Images are soft and seem to have excessive CA.

However, I started to notice that sometimes I get a weird interrupted diagonal pattern in the out of focus area, especially when I shoot with a background full of leaves and trees (as shown below). I don't find it super ugly but sometimes it's annoying not knowing what it is or where it comes from.

If you are using a filter on the lens, take it off and try again.

I did some googling and couldn't find people talking about this problem anywhere, and none of my friends knows when I ask them. So, I just want to know your opinions/advice on this: Has any of you encountered this before (and with what lens)?

If the lens does this without a filter on it, there is definitely something amiss.

What do you think about it aesthetically? Do you think it's a defect that I should try to do something about?

I find these images aesthetically unacceptable. They shouldn't look like that, and if you confirm that the lens is the cause, you should return it.

 

[lvuhn281]

Wow, initially would have chalked it up to light pattern as it is most pronounced in the photo with lots of lighter areas vs not noticeable in photo with more dark areas. Unusual to have so many even straight striations and not circular as threads.

Hopefully, as mentioned possibly something on elements front/back and not in between. Try shining bright light on either end, and through to see if bad cleaning residual fluid or if perfect scratches...though the pattern is on edges and does not seem to go through your subjects.

On the off chance clean your lens, sensor?, and take a few more test shots at higher shutter speeds, smaller f-stops, moderate iso, 0 EV, good even light, plain lens...borrow another body to compare?

Shameless plug...for examples of cleaner bokeh, see Challenge 245 on Nikon DX forum...

Hi there! When I bought the lens I did inspect it with a flash light and it looked very clean, it had a few dust specks but condition was great for a lens of its age (manufactured in 2008) I'm becoming certain that the filter, which is a (faked, I believe) Kenko was causing what we see here. I've never seen it happen to any of my other lenses, even the old clunky Helios 44-3, filter on or off. Your suggestions are all good ideas though, as I've never been serious enough about testing my equipment, so maybe I'll do all those kinds of test soon. Thank you buddy!

 

[Marianne Oelund]

Hello Marianne! Thank you for all the details you've given. I admit that when shot at 200mm, the lens makes soft images, but I've also heard that it's a common problem with this lens so I just ignore it and try not to shoot at 200mm too much. Returning is out of question because I bought this from the owner (much like craiglist) It was at good price anyway so I guess I have to deal with it. I'll go ahead and test the bokeh without that old filter and get back to you with images.

The examples you already posted look very promising.

Just for fun, you could also try taking two photos with the filter on, but rotated 90 degrees between the two images. We should see the striations rotate with the filter.

Also, taking night photos with out-of-focus lights in the distant background would be an excellent test.

By the way, I find that it has a somewhat swirly bokeh which people don't talk about much. Do you think so? Do you think it's bad or okay?Again, thank you very much!

A little swirliness is unavoidable with fast lenses. I do not think your lens is a bad example in that regard.

 

[public_af_lobster]

Well it is good that others have led you to a resolution that it was a bad filter.

Hope you can work out the softness issue.

And even though you have the swirlies, sometimes depending on the color or evenness of your background you can make it more appealing. See what your tests or actual use brings and make note how your different backgrounds contrast or complements your subject.

Best of luck in finding the strengths of your lens.