What causes one of these photos to be so much warmer than the other out of camera?

[louwill]

Both of there are shot in manual mode at 1/250 and f/3.2 with auto ISO and spot metering. Color temperature and tint aren't much different (3500 vs 3600 and -4 and -2). These were shot in continuous mode on a D3300 with a AF-S 35mm f1/8 prime lens. I know they aren't great photos, but am curious on the technical reason behind what's happening here.

What causes one to be so much warmer than the other or one to be so much colder than the other out of the camera? Should I be shooting differently? Thanks in advance!

 

[Mark S Abeln]

Aitomatic white balance is not an exact science, nor theoretically can it be. Depending on the method used, there are cases where even a change in a few pixels can change the white balance wildly.

This article might help:

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therefractedlight.blogspot.com

 

[dwalby]

its simply the auto WB giving two different readings of the same scene. Since you were using spot metering that may also narrow the window for the AWB calculation, and your spot hit two different parts of the image, changing the result. just a guess.

I don't use spot metering much unless its a scene where the subject of interest is significantly lighter/darker than the background, which doesn't appear to be the case in your shots. Experiment with center weighted average exposure mode and see if the AWB results are more consistent.

also, under indoor artificial lighting, using custom white balance often helps as well, give that a try.

 

[viperkeeper]

They look like the same photo to me. You sure you're not shooting in Jpeg+RAW? First one looks like RAW maybe and the second in Jpeg.

 

[viperkeeper]

Ok maybe I'm wrong.

 

[tony field]

Both of there are shot in manual mode at 1/250 and f/3.2 with auto ISO and spot metering. Color temperature and tint aren't much different (3500 vs 3600 and -4 and -2). These were shot in continuous mode on a D3300 with a AF-S 35mm f1/8 prime lens. I know they aren't great photos, but am curious on the technical reason behind what's happening here.

What causes one to be so much warmer than the other or one to be so much colder than the other out of the camera? Should I be shooting differently? Thanks in advance!

My guess at the problem. There is fluorescent lighting in the room. The lights "flash" at 1/60 second thus mixing the daylight and the fluorescent. At 1/250 second shutter, sometime you pick up the lighting plus daylightand sometimes essentially only the daylight. You can see this in the relative brightness below the drawer and image left. This is further indicated by the fact that the door and room behind the child is essentially in daylight only and the drawers image right have a different lighting direction when the fluorescent fires.

You can confirm this easily. Take a series of pictures at 1/30 second ... they should all have essentially the same white balance. Then take a series of photographs at 1/250 second .... various images will have different white balance depending on how the room light happens to fire and the exact timing of the shutter curtain in relation to the fluorescent fire and if the image is horizontal or vertical.



--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

 

[viperkeeper]

Both of there are shot in manual mode at 1/250 and f/3.2 with auto ISO and spot metering. Color temperature and tint aren't much different (3500 vs 3600 and -4 and -2). These were shot in continuous mode on a D3300 with a AF-S 35mm f1/8 prime lens. I know they aren't great photos, but am curious on the technical reason behind what's happening here.

What causes one to be so much warmer than the other or one to be so much colder than the other out of the camera? Should I be shooting differently? Thanks in advance!

My guess at the problem. There is fluorescent lighting in the room. The lights "flash" at 1/60 second thus mixing the daylight and the fluorescent. At 1/250 second shutter, sometime you pick up the lighting and sometimes essentially only the daylight. You can see this in the relative brightness below the drawer and image left. This is further indicated by the fact that the door and room behind the child is essentially in daylight only and the drawers image right have a different lighting direction when the fluorescent fires.

You can confirm this easily. Take a series of pictures at 1/30 second ... they should all have essentially the same white balance. Then take a series of photographs at 1/250 second .... various images will have different white balance depending on how the room light happens to fire.

--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

I think you're on to something. I believe fluorescent actually flashes at 1/120. It's 1/60 to complete a cycle and there's two peaks in each cycle. 1/240 would be a harmonic of 1/120 so at 1/250 one exposure probably has 2 peaks in it and the other 1. So eventually there's probably a difference of one stop of fluorescent light between the photos.

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[tony field]

Both of there are shot in manual mode at 1/250 and f/3.2 with auto ISO and spot metering. Color temperature and tint aren't much different (3500 vs 3600 and -4 and -2). These were shot in continuous mode on a D3300 with a AF-S 35mm f1/8 prime lens. I know they aren't great photos, but am curious on the technical reason behind what's happening here.

What causes one to be so much warmer than the other or one to be so much colder than the other out of the camera? Should I be shooting differently? Thanks in advance!

My guess at the problem. There is fluorescent lighting in the room. The lights "flash" at 1/60 second thus mixing the daylight and the fluorescent. At 1/250 second shutter, sometime you pick up the lighting and sometimes essentially only the daylight. You can see this in the relative brightness below the drawer and image left. This is further indicated by the fact that the door and room behind the child is essentially in daylight only and the drawers image right have a different lighting direction when the fluorescent fires.

You can confirm this easily. Take a series of pictures at 1/30 second ... they should all have essentially the same white balance. Then take a series of photographs at 1/250 second .... various images will have different white balance depending on how the room light happens to fire.

--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

I think you're on to something. I believe fluorescent actually flashes at 1/120. It's 1/60 to complete a cycle and there's two peaks in each cycle. 1/240 would be a harmonic of 1/120 so at 1/250 one exposure probably has 2 peaks in it and the other 1. So eventually there's probably a difference of one stop of fluorescent light between the photos.

This might be the case with magnetic ballasts. Certainly the ballast could fire on the positive and negative peaks giving 1/120 second between flashes and have a "resonance" implication with 1/250 shutter.

If you can visually detect flicker, it is probably at 1/60 second, if you cannot, it is probably at 1/120 second. High frequency ballasts are another interesting thing ...

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Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

 

[louwill]

Both of there are shot in manual mode at 1/250 and f/3.2 with auto ISO and spot metering. Color temperature and tint aren't much different (3500 vs 3600 and -4 and -2). These were shot in continuous mode on a D3300 with a AF-S 35mm f1/8 prime lens. I know they aren't great photos, but am curious on the technical reason behind what's happening here.

What causes one to be so much warmer than the other or one to be so much colder than the other out of the camera? Should I be shooting differently? Thanks in advance!

My guess at the problem. There is fluorescent lighting in the room. The lights "flash" at 1/60 second thus mixing the daylight and the fluorescent. At 1/250 second shutter, sometime you pick up the lighting plus daylightand sometimes essentially only the daylight. You can see this in the relative brightness below the drawer and image left. This is further indicated by the fact that the door and room behind the child is essentially in daylight only and the drawers image right have a different lighting direction when the fluorescent fires.

You can confirm this easily. Take a series of pictures at 1/30 second ... they should all have essentially the same white balance. Then take a series of photographs at 1/250 second .... various images will have different white balance depending on how the room light happens to fire and the exact timing of the shutter curtain in relation to the fluorescent fire and if the image is horizontal or vertical.

--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

They're LED undercabinet lights, but I think you may be on the right track here. I have several photos taken in the kitchen where I've noticed variation in lighting like this and it hadn't even dawned on me that we usually keep those lights on under the cabinets. I couldn't find any technical specs on the ballasts online.

 

[viperkeeper]

Both of there are shot in manual mode at 1/250 and f/3.2 with auto ISO and spot metering. Color temperature and tint aren't much different (3500 vs 3600 and -4 and -2). These were shot in continuous mode on a D3300 with a AF-S 35mm f1/8 prime lens. I know they aren't great photos, but am curious on the technical reason behind what's happening here.

What causes one to be so much warmer than the other or one to be so much colder than the other out of the camera? Should I be shooting differently? Thanks in advance!

My guess at the problem. There is fluorescent lighting in the room. The lights "flash" at 1/60 second thus mixing the daylight and the fluorescent. At 1/250 second shutter, sometime you pick up the lighting plus daylightand sometimes essentially only the daylight. You can see this in the relative brightness below the drawer and image left. This is further indicated by the fact that the door and room behind the child is essentially in daylight only and the drawers image right have a different lighting direction when the fluorescent fires.

You can confirm this easily. Take a series of pictures at 1/30 second ... they should all have essentially the same white balance. Then take a series of photographs at 1/250 second .... various images will have different white balance depending on how the room light happens to fire and the exact timing of the shutter curtain in relation to the fluorescent fire and if the image is horizontal or vertical.

--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

They're LED undercabinet lights, but I think you may be on the right track here. I have several photos taken in the kitchen where I've noticed variation in lighting like this and it hadn't even dawned on me that we usually keep those lights on under the cabinets. I couldn't find any technical specs on the ballasts online.

LED would be the same either 1/60 or 1/120 but it really doesn't matter both are harmonics so is 1/240 and that was close to your shutter speed. Simply using something like 1/200 might even things out between shots.

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[tony field]

Both of there are shot in manual mode at 1/250 and f/3.2 with auto ISO and spot metering. Color temperature and tint aren't much different (3500 vs 3600 and -4 and -2). These were shot in continuous mode on a D3300 with a AF-S 35mm f1/8 prime lens. I know they aren't great photos, but am curious on the technical reason behind what's happening here.

What causes one to be so much warmer than the other or one to be so much colder than the other out of the camera? Should I be shooting differently? Thanks in advance!

My guess at the problem. There is fluorescent lighting in the room. The lights "flash" at 1/60 second thus mixing the daylight and the fluorescent. At 1/250 second shutter, sometime you pick up the lighting plus daylightand sometimes essentially only the daylight. You can see this in the relative brightness below the drawer and image left. This is further indicated by the fact that the door and room behind the child is essentially in daylight only and the drawers image right have a different lighting direction when the fluorescent fires.

You can confirm this easily. Take a series of pictures at 1/30 second ... they should all have essentially the same white balance. Then take a series of photographs at 1/250 second .... various images will have different white balance depending on how the room light happens to fire and the exact timing of the shutter curtain in relation to the fluorescent fire and if the image is horizontal or vertical.

--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

They're LED undercabinet lights, but I think you may be on the right track here. I have several photos taken in the kitchen where I've noticed variation in lighting like this and it hadn't even dawned on me that we usually keep those lights on under the cabinets. I couldn't find any technical specs on the ballasts online.

LED would be the same either 1/60 or 1/120 but it really doesn't matter both are harmonics so is 1/240 and that was close to your shutter speed. Simply using something like 1/200 might even things out between shots.

the cheap LED lights I have in the kitchen are at 1/60 second flash rate - it uses a stepdown from 120 v transformer and a single diode half wave rectifier.

The "harmonic" of the flash rate and the shutter speed are only loose related for the effect - it simply adjusts the lighting distribution across the image.

--
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/professor_pouncey/?hl=en

--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

 

[PhotoTeach2]

Ok maybe I'm wrong.

I was almost ready to agree with you, but they are indeed different. (Compare the babies left "thumb", and the head position is slighlty different.

 

[Doug Haag]

Ok maybe I'm wrong.

I was almost ready to agree with you, but they are indeed different. (Compare the babies left "thumb", and the head position is slighlty different.

Huh? The exif data shows that the iso in one shot is 2500 and the other is 2800. That's what caused me to quickly conclude they were not the same picture. I assumed he shot a burst in in manual mode with a fixed aperture and shutter speed but auto iso.

But if you want to use a close inspection of image elements to determine that two shots with different iso settings are not one and the same picture, who am I to question a teacher of photography. I am just a lowly amateur.

 

[viperkeeper]

Ok maybe I'm wrong.

I was almost ready to agree with you, but they are indeed different. (Compare the babies left "thumb", and the head position is slighlty different.

Huh? The exif data shows that the iso in one shot is 2500 and the other is 2800. That's what caused me to quickly conclude they were not the same picture. I assumed he shot a burst in in manual mode with a fixed aperture and shutter speed but auto iso.

But if you want to use a close inspection of image elements to determine that two shots with different iso settings are not one and the same picture, who am I to question a teacher of photography. I am just a lowly amateur.

You can't view EXIF data on a phone or mobile device and I never use a computer to view this forum. So I can't see what settings where used.

 

[Doug Haag]

Ok maybe I'm wrong.

I was almost ready to agree with you, but they are indeed different. (Compare the babies left "thumb", and the head position is slighlty different.

Huh? The exif data shows that the iso in one shot is 2500 and the other is 2800. That's what caused me to quickly conclude they were not the same picture. I assumed he shot a burst in in manual mode with a fixed aperture and shutter speed but auto iso.

But if you want to use a close inspection of image elements to determine that two shots with different iso settings are not one and the same picture, who am I to question a teacher of photography. I am just a lowly amateur.

You can't view EXIF data on a phone or mobile device and I never use a computer to view this forum. So I can't see what settings where used.

 

[louwill]

They look like the same photo to me. You sure you're not shooting in Jpeg+RAW? First one looks like RAW maybe and the second in Jpeg.

 

[louwill]

Ok maybe I'm wrong.

I was almost ready to agree with you, but they are indeed different. (Compare the babies left "thumb", and the head position is slighlty different.

Huh? The exif data shows that the iso in one shot is 2500 and the other is 2800. That's what caused me to quickly conclude they were not the same picture. I assumed he shot a burst in in manual mode with a fixed aperture and shutter speed but auto iso.

But if you want to use a close inspection of image elements to determine that two shots with different iso settings are not one and the same picture, who am I to question a teacher of photography. I am just a lowly amateur.

Yes, you are correct. I rarely shoot single frame if he's on the move.

 

[Mark S Abeln]

Dpreview does not display Exif data nor allow you to download a full image from their mobile website.

You can switch to the full website but it isn't pleasant or easy to use on a phone.

 

[tony field]

Both of there are shot in manual mode at 1/250 and f/3.2 with auto ISO and spot metering. Color temperature and tint aren't much different (3500 vs 3600 and -4 and -2). These were shot in continuous mode on a D3300 with a AF-S 35mm f1/8 prime lens. I know they aren't great photos, but am curious on the technical reason behind what's happening here.

What causes one to be so much warmer than the other or one to be so much colder than the other out of the camera? Should I be shooting differently? Thanks in advance!

My guess at the problem. There is fluorescent lighting in the room. The lights "flash" at 1/60 second thus mixing the daylight and the fluorescent. At 1/250 second shutter, sometime you pick up the lighting plus daylightand sometimes essentially only the daylight. You can see this in the relative brightness below the drawer and image left. This is further indicated by the fact that the door and room behind the child is essentially in daylight only and the drawers image right have a different lighting direction when the fluorescent fires.

You can confirm this easily. Take a series of pictures at 1/30 second ... they should all have essentially the same white balance. Then take a series of photographs at 1/250 second .... various images will have different white balance depending on how the room light happens to fire and the exact timing of the shutter curtain in relation to the fluorescent fire and if the image is horizontal or vertical.

--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

They're LED undercabinet lights, but I think you may be on the right track here. I have several photos taken in the kitchen where I've noticed variation in lighting like this and it hadn't even dawned on me that we usually keep those lights on under the cabinets. I couldn't find any technical specs on the ballasts online.

I thought the reflections in the stove window indicated a fluorescent strip

If you look at the reflections in the two pictures, you can see the bottom image has "full light" in the reflection ... giving a warm tone to the image. The top image has a much darker rendition of the strip light indicating that it flashed on or off during a different part of the shutter cycle relative to the second image and the shutter missed the "bright part" of the flash cycle.

On little test to do: spread your fingers wide and rapidly wave your hand close to the lights. You should see the "strobe" effect with your moving fingers. My little strip led lights flash at 1/60 second and the effect is "obvious"

--
Charles Darwin: "ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
tony
http://www.tphoto.ca

 

[Doug Haag]

Dpreview does not display Exif data nor allow you to download a full image from their mobile website.

You can switch to the full website but it isn't pleasant or easy to use on a phone.