Who is Raw Therapee for?

toomanycanons

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First off, I'm a Lightroom 6 user. I don't have any complaints about Adobe, just so you know. LR6 works just fine for my purposes which is processing lots of raw images at one time (up to 200 or more) from my Nikon cameras. I use a preset upon import then tweak each file as needed and export as jpegs.

I've heard people mention they like Raw Therapee so when the latest version came out (5) I downloaded it and have played with it, basically trying to get it to emulate the way I use LR6.

What I did find out is that RT does convert my D7200 raws nicely, as well as LR6 does (and Affinity Photo doesn't but that's another thread). But it took me forever to go through all the controls to attempt to get a typical nef to look like what takes me seconds to do in LR6 (of course, after a lot of experience).

So who is Raw Therapee for? Before I spend a ton of time trying to get it to emulate the way I use LR6, will I eventually find that it can or is RT really for one-off difficult raws and in that sense is "better" than LR6?

How and why do you use Raw Therapee? Thanks.
 
I don't use RT for the reason you just listed. I have spent a lot of time getting familiar with LR and for the moment I see no reason to invest time in RT unless I have to.

Of course if I had started with RT I would have the same question regarding LR :-)

I keep an eye on RT as an alternative for LR/PS/CC, just in case Adobe decides to go on a full subsription model and raise the prices a lot. And even then there are other options to choose from, like Darktable.
 
So who is Raw Therapee for? Before I spend a ton of time trying to get it to emulate the way I use LR6, will I eventually find that it can or is RT really for one-off difficult raws and in that sense is "better" than LR6?
It's favored by some of the people who insist on using open-source software, and some users have praised its specialized abilities (like different demosaicing algorithms).
How and why do you use Raw Therapee? Thanks.
I don't. I recognize it has advantages, but although it can use Adobe .lcp files for lens corrections they don't seem to work very well for some lenses I have. That's a deal breaker for me, since I'm used to DxO OP's excellent corrections.
 
See https://discuss.pixls.us/t/support-for-pentax-pixel-shift-files-3489/2560/168

Download https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B2q9OrgyDEfPS2FpdDAtMVI1RG8

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I love the sliders. So easy to understand and so well laid out. And there are few raw editors with sliders so smooth and responsive.

But I've either found short-comings or don't know how to use the crop tool. Maybe it's time to RTFM.

I don't know about you guys, but cropping is my very first step in post-processing. So any software that can't get beyond the cropping stage is pretty much useless.
 
So who is Raw Therapee for? Before I spend a ton of time trying to get it to emulate the way I use LR6, will I eventually find that it can or is RT really for one-off difficult raws and in that sense is "better" than LR6?
It's favored by some of the people who insist on using open-source software, and some users have praised its specialized abilities (like different demosaicing algorithms).
How and why do you use Raw Therapee? Thanks.
I don't. I recognize it has advantages, but although it can use Adobe .lcp files for lens corrections they don't seem to work very well for some lenses I have. That's a deal breaker for me, since I'm used to DxO OP's excellent corrections.
That's because DxO is testing the lenses themselves and use the actual data to correct the lenses in their software.
 
I love the sliders. So easy to understand and so well laid out. And there are few raw editors with sliders so smooth and responsive.

But I've either found short-comings or don't know how to use the crop tool. Maybe it's time to RTFM.

I don't know about you guys, but cropping is my very first step in post-processing. So any software that can't get beyond the cropping stage is pretty much useless.
 
I love the sliders. So easy to understand and so well laid out. And there are few raw editors with sliders so smooth and responsive.

But I've either found short-comings or don't know how to use the crop tool. Maybe it's time to RTFM.

I don't know about you guys, but cropping is my very first step in post-processing. So any software that can't get beyond the cropping stage is pretty much useless.
 
I love the sliders. So easy to understand and so well laid out. And there are few raw editors with sliders so smooth and responsive.

But I've either found short-comings or don't know how to use the crop tool. Maybe it's time to RTFM.

I don't know about you guys, but cropping is my very first step in post-processing. So any software that can't get beyond the cropping stage is pretty much useless.
 
I love the sliders. So easy to understand and so well laid out. And there are few raw editors with sliders so smooth and responsive.

But I've either found short-comings or don't know how to use the crop tool. Maybe it's time to RTFM.

I don't know about you guys, but cropping is my very first step in post-processing. So any software that can't get beyond the cropping stage is pretty much useless.

--
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I have been a long time user, using it even before Gabor released it to open licensing.

The crop tool as at the top of the edit page or just click C. Once the crop is started it goes to the proper tab where are other options are presented. If you want to rotate the picture there is an option for that at the top also. Again once selected it takes you to the proper tab. If you want to move your crop, you have to hold the Shift key at the same time as you move it.

If you have any questions there is documentation at:

http://rawpedia.rawtherapee.com/Main_Page
I used to use it before investing in other software, i still got my presets and use it from time to time for things and to compare.

I like it because it works fast and doesnt slow down and has no catalogue, however it does have some annoyances. I do not use or like LR for this reason.

Crop tool is annoying and clunky. its slow to use compared to just about everything..

WHY do i have to draw a crop first, just let me drag a corner, much quicker.

WHY do i have to hold shift? seriously? just let me drag it with my mouse.

Of all the tools and power this tool has its fairly clunky to do basic stuff like a crop.

Also the noise reduction isnt the best and sharpening is also tricky to get a good balance with noise.

So imo rawtherapee is for linux users or people that like open source/freeware or those that dont use raw often so dont want to spend money or subscriptions. people that use low iso or people that have time to learn to get the most out of the program.
 
Moving the crop box. You have to press [SHIFT] to move the box. While that's easy to learn and easy to do, I wouldn't have figured that out from simply using the program and looking at the GUI choices; ie, it's not intuitive.

A bigger problem, applying the crop. After selecting the crop area it's normal (based on using dozens of other programs) to double-click or press an Apply button to actually perform the crop. I want the cropped-out portion to disappear and the image redrawn to fill the frame. RawTherapee simply doesn't do this; it leaves the cropped out area in view (but grayed out) for the duration of the session.
 
Moving the crop box. You have to press [SHIFT] to move the box. While that's easy to learn and easy to do, I wouldn't have figured that out from simply using the program and looking at the GUI choices; ie, it's not intuitive.

A bigger problem, applying the crop. After selecting the crop area it's normal (based on using dozens of other programs) to double-click or press an Apply button to actually perform the crop. I want the cropped-out portion to disappear and the image redrawn to fill the frame. RawTherapee simply doesn't do this; it leaves the cropped out area in view (but grayed out) for the duration of the session.
 
Moving the crop box. You have to press [SHIFT] to move the box. While that's easy to learn and easy to do, I wouldn't have figured that out from simply using the program and looking at the GUI choices; ie, it's not intuitive.

A bigger problem, applying the crop. After selecting the crop area it's normal (based on using dozens of other programs) to double-click or press an Apply button to actually perform the crop. I want the cropped-out portion to disappear and the image redrawn to fill the frame. RawTherapee simply doesn't do this; it leaves the cropped out area in view (but grayed out) for the duration of the session.
 
What I did find out is that RT does convert my D7200 raws nicely, as well as LR6 does (and Affinity Photo doesn't but that's another thread). But it took me forever to go through all the controls to attempt to get a typical nef to look like what takes me seconds to do in LR6 (of course, after a lot of experience).
So who is Raw Therapee for? Before I spend a ton of time trying to get it to emulate the way I use LR6, will I eventually find that it can or is RT really for one-off difficult raws and in that sense is "better" than LR6?
If RT emulated the way LR works, and if the results were the same, what would be the point?

I believe people use RT because they like the way RT works, and they like the fact that they can achieve better results in RT, not results that match LR. Of course, "better" is subjective, so "better" exists only in the mind of the beholder.

If everybody thought RT was better than LR, then LR wouldn't be as successful as it is. But if everybody thought LR was better then RT wouldn't have as many satisfied users.

From my own perspective, I like DxO OP better than either LR or RT, so that's what I stick with. I don't spend any time trying to make DxO OP work more like one of the other programs, or to produce output that matches one of the other programs. In my opinion, to do that would be counter-productive.

So I guess my question to you is: Why are you pondering RT instead of sticking with what you seem to like very much?
 
What I did find out is that RT does convert my D7200 raws nicely, as well as LR6 does (and Affinity Photo doesn't but that's another thread). But it took me forever to go through all the controls to attempt to get a typical nef to look like what takes me seconds to do in LR6 (of course, after a lot of experience).

So who is Raw Therapee for? Before I spend a ton of time trying to get it to emulate the way I use LR6, will I eventually find that it can or is RT really for one-off difficult raws and in that sense is "better" than LR6?
If RT emulated the way LR works, and if the results were the same, what would be the point?

I believe people use RT because they like the way RT works, and they like the fact that they can achieve better results in RT, not results that match LR. Of course, "better" is subjective, so "better" exists only in the mind of the beholder.

If everybody thought RT was better than LR, then LR wouldn't be as successful as it is. But if everybody thought LR was better then RT wouldn't have as many satisfied users.

From my own perspective, I like DxO OP better than either LR or RT, so that's what I stick with. I don't spend any time trying to make DxO OP work more like one of the other programs, or to produce output that matches one of the other programs. In my opinion, to do that would be counter-productive.

So I guess my question to you is: Why are you pondering RT instead of sticking with what you seem to like very much?
1. It's great you love and use DxO. I have the latest DxO but don't use it because it doesn't do what I want it to do. It does what you want and need. Great, keep using it.

2. "If RT emulated the way LR works, and if the results were the same, what would be the point?" What a specious statement. You use DxO. How would you know whether RT does things better than LR?

3. My question to you is: why do you care if I ask questions here about RT to see if it can fit into the way I go about my post processing? For all I know it could indeed do the things that I love about LR6 better and would indeed be a worthwhile addition to my workflow. If I listened to you I wouldn't even bother finding out.
 
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What I did find out is that RT does convert my D7200 raws nicely, as well as LR6 does (and Affinity Photo doesn't but that's another thread). But it took me forever to go through all the controls to attempt to get a typical nef to look like what takes me seconds to do in LR6 (of course, after a lot of experience).

So who is Raw Therapee for? Before I spend a ton of time trying to get it to emulate the way I use LR6, will I eventually find that it can or is RT really for one-off difficult raws and in that sense is "better" than LR6?
If RT emulated the way LR works, and if the results were the same, what would be the point?

I believe people use RT because they like the way RT works, and they like the fact that they can achieve better results in RT, not results that match LR. Of course, "better" is subjective, so "better" exists only in the mind of the beholder.

If everybody thought RT was better than LR, then LR wouldn't be as successful as it is. But if everybody thought LR was better then RT wouldn't have as many satisfied users.

From my own perspective, I like DxO OP better than either LR or RT, so that's what I stick with. I don't spend any time trying to make DxO OP work more like one of the other programs, or to produce output that matches one of the other programs. In my opinion, to do that would be counter-productive.

So I guess my question to you is: Why are you pondering RT instead of sticking with what you seem to like very much?
1. It's great you love and use DxO. I have the latest DxO but don't use it because it doesn't do what I want it to do. It does what you want and need. Great, keep using it.

2. "If RT emulated the way LR works, and if the results were the same, what would be the point?" What a specious statement. You use DxO. How would you know whether RT does things better than LR?

3. My question to you is: why do you care if I ask questions here about RT to see if it can fit into the way I go about my post processing? For all I know it could indeed do the things that I love about LR6 better and would indeed be a worthwhile addition to my workflow. If I listened to you I wouldn't even bother finding out.
First, I didn't say that RT was better than LR. I said some users think RT is better, and some think that LR is better, and also that "better" is in the mind of the beholder. I don't know how i could have been more clear.

Second, you started your post by saying that you tried RT and found it harder to achieve the results you were looking for. Results you already get from LR.

So if your question is whether you should be using RT or LR, I believe you answered your own question at the very beginning.

That said, your subject line didn't ask that question. It was asking who was RT for? Coupling your subject line with the rest of your post, you seemed to be asking why anybody would choose RT over LR. In my reply I was simply saying that users of both programs were finding what they were looking for.

In no place did I advocate for DxO OP. I was simply disclosing my own choice, instead of hiding behind anonymity. Full disclosure is usually considered desirable. I didn't realize that you only wanted to hear from a limited group. However, I've tried both LR and RT, and most of the others, and DxO was simply my top choice.

In the second paragraph that I quoted, you are posing a binary choice. Namely, will you ever be able to make RT emulate LR, or is it only for special cases? I was just trying to point out that the choice doesn't have to be limited to either-or. Many people use RT specifically because it isn't exactly like LR, and they apparently prefer that. Which I thought was what your subject line was asking.

In your item 3, you ask why I care what you use. The simple answer is that I don't care one bit. But your original post did pose questions, and i have a question for you. Why ask questions in a public forum and then later ask why somebody took the time to try to answer them?

Nobody says you have to agree with all answers, but asking a person why they care seems to be a bit over the top, especially when they don't actually care at all.

Maybe this reply has further muddied the issue, but my hope is to add clarity.
 
Why spend time to make one software program emulate another? RT is for anyone but it does things its own way. Once you have twiddled the sliders enough you can save "recipes" to make things easier the next time around.

If you are comfortable with LR and the results you are getting, moving to different software will always be a challenge. For me, it would be the other way around, I'd need to fiddle around a lot to match the output...so I simply don't.
 
I'm another person who's been using RT since its closed source days.

RT really shines for users at the opposite end of the spectrum with respect to what should be done in a raw converter.

For those who want to do all their editing in Photoshop RT is outstanding because of its demosaicing algorithms and the flat rendition of its default camera profiles when all sliders are set to zero. The only algorithm that comes close to AmaZe is C1's; ACR's is poor both in terms of noise and in terms of detail. As for why the flat rendition is good, if you know what you're doing you can get a better final image by starting with a flat original than one that's had an aggressive tone curve applied.

If you're someone who wants to do everything in the raw converter, RT is also very good because -besides the basics- it has some unique and powerful features in tone mapping, Retinex and wavelets. Because I'm someone who likes to do everything in Photoshop, I only use tone mapping, which, when properly used, can do wonders.

RT has the best sharpening of any raw converter that I've seen in its implementation of Lucy-Richardson deconvolution.

I wouldn't recommend RT to a casual user because it's not as easy to get "good enough" results from it as it is with other raw converters. However, I love it because of AmaZe, it's flat rendition, and tone mapping.
 
I'm another person who's been using RT since its closed source days.

RT really shines for users at the opposite end of the spectrum with respect to what should be done in a raw converter.

For those who want to do all their editing in Photoshop RT is outstanding because of its demosaicing algorithms and the flat rendition of its default camera profiles when all sliders are set to zero. The only algorithm that comes close to AmaZe is C1's; ACR's is poor both in terms of noise and in terms of detail. As for why the flat rendition is good, if you know what you're doing you can get a better final image by starting with a flat original than one that's had an aggressive tone curve applied.

If you're someone who wants to do everything in the raw converter, RT is also very good because -besides the basics- it has some unique and powerful features in tone mapping, Retinex and wavelets. Because I'm someone who likes to do everything in Photoshop, I only use tone mapping, which, when properly used, can do wonders.

RT has the best sharpening of any raw converter that I've seen in its implementation of Lucy-Richardson deconvolution.

I wouldn't recommend RT to a casual user because it's not as easy to get "good enough" results from it as it is with other raw converters. However, I love it because of AmaZe, it's flat rendition, and tone mapping.
Finally, a focused, on-point comment from a knowledgeable user of RT. Thanks.
 

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