What is a good lens for shooting gymnastics?

Meomaxy

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I'm looking to upgrade from my Nikon 1 V2. The most challenging shooting situation I regularly face is taking videos and pictures (emphasis on videos) at my daughters' gymnastics competitions. They are indoors with mediocre lighting, and to photograph a vault or tumbling at just the right moment needs fast shutter. I'm not happy with the faster lens options on the Nikon 1, so I'm considering switching to the Panasonic G7. I thought to pick that one because it's said to be great for video (which is still the main thing I share from meets), the available 14-140mm f/3.5-5.6 lens ought to cover the range I need, and I hear good things about its ability to focus quickly and track. And camera and lens would fit into the approximate $1000 budget I'm aiming for.

What are some faster lens options for the G7 that I should consider? Maybe step down to the 14-42mm kit lens, and use the difference to invest in a fast 45mm prime? Am I correct that if my end product is an HD video, that the 4K video on the G7 gives me the option to shoot with a wider lens than I need, and still extract full HD-resolution video by cropping?

Thanks all!
 
The answer to the last question is yes. You already get a crop by shooting 4k, then you can crop down another 2x to full HD if you so choose, or you can downsample to full HD without cropping for better quality.

The G7 will not be stabilized with a prime lens unless you use a very expensive prime or the 45 macro. The GX80 or G80 will be able to stabilize all prime lenses, just like Olympus cameras.
 
The answer to the last question is yes. You already get a crop by shooting 4k, then you can crop down another 2x to full HD if you so choose, or you can downsample to full HD without cropping for better quality.

The G7 will not be stabilized with a prime lens unless you use a very expensive prime or the 45 macro. The GX80 or G80 will be able to stabilize all prime lenses, just like Olympus cameras.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/xiafei/
you can get the 42.5 1.7 which will be stablized.

if the gym is bright enough either the 60mm from sigma or the 35-100 from panasonic. 2.8 version.
 
Olympus 75mm f/1.8 is made for shooting lowlight action. Its the ONE lens you need for this kind of shoot.
 
$700 new. Something to save up for, I guess, or to look for used.
 
I'm looking to upgrade from my Nikon 1 V2. The most challenging shooting situation I regularly face is taking videos and pictures (emphasis on videos) at my daughters' gymnastics competitions. They are indoors with mediocre lighting, and to photograph a vault or tumbling at just the right moment needs fast shutter. I'm not happy with the faster lens options on the Nikon 1, so I'm considering switching to the Panasonic G7. I thought to pick that one because it's said to be great for video (which is still the main thing I share from meets), the available 14-140mm f/3.5-5.6 lens ought to cover the range I need, and I hear good things about its ability to focus quickly and track. And camera and lens would fit into the approximate $1000 budget I'm aiming for.

What are some faster lens options for the G7 that I should consider? Maybe step down to the 14-42mm kit lens, and use the difference to invest in a fast 45mm prime? Am I correct that if my end product is an HD video, that the 4K video on the G7 gives me the option to shoot with a wider lens than I need, and still extract full HD-resolution video by cropping?

Thanks all!
I don't think I can answer most of this, but I'll say that you can usually get by with a much slower lens for video than stills. The reason is that some motion blur is acceptable in video, while, for stills, your goal is usually to stop motion.

From your post, it's not clear to me if your need for the fast shutter is for video or for stills. For video, it's generally recommended that you use a shutter speed double the frame rate. So, for 24p or 30p, you generally want to use 1/50s to 1/60s. For 60p, you generally want to use 1/120s. You can go faster than this if you want (for sports, for example), but only you can evaluate how the shutter speed affects the look of your video.

For video, with some gymnastics events, I think 24p or 30p video is actually fine. And with these, you usually use 1/50 or 1/60s shutter. But the issue is that perhaps with an event like vault, you may (or may not) want to shoot 60p with a 1/120s shutter, depending on the speed of the movement. 60p generally helps with very fast movement. I really have little experience with gymnastics events, so I don't know if 30p would be acceptable or not. And the G7 doesn't shoot 4k/60p (no other consumer camera except for the upcoming GH5 does either), so if you wanted 60p, you'd have to shoot 1080/60p.

You can absolutely crop the 4K video to 1080p or something between 4k and 1080p (and possibly downscale to 1080p afterward). I do it all the time.

But if you shoot 4K video at the recommended shutter speed, while it may look fine as a video, I'm not sure extracting frames from this would make good still images. There might be too much motion blur. The G7 does have a 4K photo mode, which usually has a faster shutter speed, allowing you to extract still frames from it. But it might not work well as a video.

If you want to use 1/50s or 1/60s shutter speed for video, a relatively slow lens like any of the f/5.6 zooms may work fine. If you want to stop motion at 1/500s (for either video or stills), you're likely going to need a fast lens. I would probably go f/2.8 or faster.

As an aside, regarding focusing, I might consider doing manual focus in video for events like BB and bars because you might be able to get the whole area in focus. For events like vault and floor, perhaps AF would be better. Again, I don't have much experience with this particular sport, so I can't say for sure. But I often decide manual focus vs AF depending on how much ground the person is expected to cover. If you're taking video of someone just swinging a bat or a golf club, there's generally no need for AF as you can get the whole area you need in focus without the need for switching focal points.

p.s. Panasonic cameras generally AF better in 1080p modes than 4K modes. That's likely to change with the GH5, but it's something to consider.
 
with a dslr which can capture action somewhat better than a micro43 camera (at least the ones with which I've had experience) I'm going to share that you will have the best results by prefocusing on something in the area where you expect your gymnast to be and using a burst series of images. Trying to lock focus on a fast moving target can be extremely difficult.

At dog matches I will pick an upright pole on a hurdle or a stripe on a mat and wait for the dog to almost approach it before clicking the shutter to capture a number of shots.

Make sure your shutter speed is fast enough, work in manual mode where you can choose the ISO, aperture and shutte speed and watch the histogram to make sure that you have adequate light at your all important shutter speed to capture the action.

Trial and error will tell you the best combination of settings for the event you're going to shoot. It would probably not hurt to use a custom white balance because arena lighting can be downright ugly in color. I would shoot in both raw and jpg so I can correct the color in post-processing. It would also not hurt to shoot the area with a grey card in it to click on the color in post-processing to get the right white balance.

I agree that the 75mm f/1.8 is probably the best lens to shoot with because of the large aperture, but I don't believe it is the fastest focus-locking lens so pre-focusing on a nearby area might help a lot (having the camera in manual focus mode - not autofocus) A maximum f/2.8, lens such as the Panasonic 35-100 will give you greater zoom, but the f/2.8 is not fast enough for the Western North Carolina Ag Center where I've photographed dog shows and agility.

Here's a dslr gallery from 2007 shot with a Canon dslr and an 85mm lens (equivalent of 135mm in 35mm terms on a cropped sensor dslr - a 75mm micro 43 lens will give you a 150mm equivalent.) Reading the exif under the images will give you an idea of my shooting parameters: http://www.pbase.com/isabel95/blue_ridge_agility_11_30_07

Isabel
 
I shot my granddaughter's gymnastics meets all last season with an E-M1 and a variety of lenses, including the 75 f1.8, which was always either a little too short or a little too long, but never quite right. You would think the 2X crop factor would be ideal, but I found it to be more a hindrance than a help. To shoot gymnastics, I found I needed a shutter speed of a minimum of 1/500 (1/640 was better for bars and vault if I could manage it), which put me squarely into the ISO 6400+ range. This is likewise not ideal for m4/3 cameras.

I considered waiting for the E-M1 MK II and pairing it with the 40-150 f2.8, but I just couldn't convince myself it was going to be an order of magnitude better than what I was already using. I kept my E-M1--I really do love to use it--but I sold off all my lenses but the 12-40 f.28 and funded a Nikon D500 and two fast lenses. The difference between last year's gymnastics shots and this year's really is night and day.

If you're serious about getting the best shots you can possibly get in that environment, I'm going to suggest you're not going to be completely satisfied with m4/3. To be honest, I still don't lug the D500 around everywhere with me, but I can easily handle it for the three or four hours the meets take. I'm old... I just lift a little heavier weights than I might normally otherwise lift to keep in shape.

I shoot video with my phone, so I can't comment on that aspect.
 
I shot my granddaughter's gymnastics meets all last season with an E-M1 and a variety of lenses, including the 75 f1.8, which was always either a little too short or a little too long, but never quite right. You would think the 2X crop factor would be ideal, but I found it to be more a hindrance than a help. To shoot gymnastics, I found I needed a shutter speed of a minimum of 1/500 (1/640 was better for bars and vault if I could manage it), which put me squarely into the ISO 6400+ range. This is likewise not ideal for m4/3 cameras.
Were you shooting wide open or stopped down with the 75mm f/1.8?

I did some testing at home with an MFT body and 1/500s shutter at f/1.8 was perfectly exposed at ISO 1600 with 75 lux of light, give or take. This is less light than I would imagine gymnasts need to perform safely. I would think they would go 200 lux or above for the lighting.

The only way I can imagine needing ISO 6400 at f/1.8 is if I was shooting by candlelight. Maybe I'm wrong and I don't mean to question someone with actual experience with this sport. But something seems wrong to me.
I considered waiting for the E-M1 MK II and pairing it with the 40-150 f2.8, but I just couldn't convince myself it was going to be an order of magnitude better than what I was already using. I kept my E-M1--I really do love to use it--but I sold off all my lenses but the 12-40 f.28 and funded a Nikon D500 and two fast lenses. The difference between last year's gymnastics shots and this year's really is night and day.

If you're serious about getting the best shots you can possibly get in that environment, I'm going to suggest you're not going to be completely satisfied with m4/3. To be honest, I still don't lug the D500 around everywhere with me, but I can easily handle it for the three or four hours the meets take. I'm old... I just lift a little heavier weights than I might normally otherwise lift to keep in shape.

I shoot video with my phone, so I can't comment on that aspect.
 
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It was at f1.8. Unfortunately, children's gymnastics meets aren't often held in state-of-the-art Olympic venues like you see on television every four years. You're lucky if the majority of the (far) overhead lights aren't burned out. They don't have windows and, even if they did, usually your child draws the 5:00 p.m. meet anyway.

The last meet of the year was a children's pre-Olympic event. It was held in the middle of an old, old railway terminal for atmosphere. A candle would have been an improvement. If any of this sounds familiar to the OP, you can bet (s)he knows exactly what I'm talking about. Plus, I suspect you're thinking of shooting a lens at a much slower shutter speed than you need for lowlight fast action. Even a child builds up a lot of velocity in their routine. You just can't freeze that action with anything less than 1/500. Even 1/400 isn't fast enough.

This isn't to say I didn't get any shots I was proud of. I'm just saying it's a whole lot easier this year, and my pictures have gotten a whole lot better. Also, gymnastics meets being what they are, you don't get first choice of where to place yourself. A prime lens doesn't cut it, unless you want to take a nice portrait of your child with their medals/trophies after the event is all over and they're standing still in front of the little photo-op area.
Were you shooting wide open or stopped down with the 75mm f/1.8?
 
I believe this is the best camera for your video centric needs, and without stretching your budget much - the RX10 II. Constant f/2.8. 24-200mm equivalent zoom. Superior 4K and HD video. Full sensor readout. $1298 with the external microphone.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01943LIRC/ref=psd_nobrainer_B01943LIRC
The lens is certainly capable of handling gymnastics video IMO. The codec is poor though on this specific camera. If you want good, detailed video, you have to step up to the RX10 III. The G7 eats the RX10 II for breakfast.

And it should be noted that for 4K video, F/2.8 on a 1" sensor is the same as F/3.3 on the G7 (taking into account the 4K crop factor for the G7). For stills, F/2.8 on a 1" sensor is the same as F/3.9 on an MFT sensor.

None of the RX10 cameras are capable of the same low light stills performance as MFT bodies. If people think the MFT sensor is limited in low light, they'll be shocked at how badly the 1" sensor performs in low light.

All in all, not at all suitable for what the OP is asking for. I wouldn't go any smaller than MFT.
 
I pulled two out that I shot with my V2 about a year ago under pretty challenging lighting, so you can see what I'm trying to improve upon. I'm pushing it here by going as slow as 1/320, and bumping the ISO to 3200. The first one is not quite too bad because I'm at the 30mm end of my zoom.

387a474ad8894f9d886023de03935d57.jpg

This second one is a lot worse because I'm further away, and lens is down to f/4.8

47fb46c1ddb745e998cc61309f84e699.jpg
 
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Thanks. Those are great tips. Generally, I can get good focus by locking in on the vault/beam/bars first, unless you're fortunate enough to get really close. For floor, you just have to track around.
 
I can probably clarify a bit. When I'm using my Nikon 1 V2 for video, the results are pretty good because the shutter speed can be a lot slower. My problem is when I try to take photos that freeze the action.

My reason for bringing up the whole photo/video thing is that I've considered some solutions that look like they'll give me better results taking photos. For example, I could add an FT-1 adapter to the V2, and pair it with a faster F-mount lens. However, autofocus doesn't work nearly as well that way, and I think I'll have a setup that just doesn't do video as well. I'd need to swap back and forth.

When I mentioned the 4K modes on the G7, I'm talking about two things. First, do I need to have a lens that reaches far enough to make the action fill the frame? I was suggesting that with a camera that does 4K video, I probably could manage with a shorter lens because I can always crop a 1920x1080 window from 4K video. With my V2, I can't do that because it's maximum video resolution is 1080p.

Thing two about the G7 and 4K is about the 4K photo modes. That's a different thing. The G7 has a mode where it shoots 8MP images at 30fps, and then gives you ways to pick the shot you want to keep. Those photos need to be at high shutter speed because the end result is a photo. It's not pulling a still frame out of a video.
 
I pulled two out that I shot with my V2 about a year ago under pretty challenging lighting, so you can see what I'm trying to improve upon. I'm pushing it here by going as slow as 1/320, and bumping the ISO to 3200. The first one is not quite too bad because I'm at the 30mm end of my zoom.

387a474ad8894f9d886023de03935d57.jpg
For this shot, assuming you wanted to maintain the same exposure, you could do it at f/2.2, 1/500s, ISO1600. ISO1600 is pretty good on the G7, better than it is on the Nikon 1. You could also do f/2.8, 1/320s, ISO1600, allowing you to use the 35-100 f/2.8. But to do this and use ISO1600, you'd have to settle for the slower shutter of 1/320s. I would suggest shooting RAW or RAW + jpeg to get the max quality out of it.

So, f/1.8 would work fine and you could shoot at a faster shutter and lower ISO. This would be the case whether you use the Nikon 1 or MFT, but MFT will give you a better result at the same ISO.

The 75mm would be too long for the first shot and too short for the second shot, the disadvantage of using a prime. For the first shot, you could add the 45mm f/1.8.

Consider a larger sensor though if you want to have better high ISO performance, allowing you more leeway on the F-stop, allowing you to use a zoom instead of primes.
This second one is a lot worse because I'm further away, and lens is down to f/4.8

47fb46c1ddb745e998cc61309f84e699.jpg
 
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If motion tracking is important to you, that'd limit your choice to either EM1ii or the future GH5 within the M43 selections. Under or near $1000, among mirrorless cams the discontinued Samsung NX500 does 4k w good AFC+tracking. None of others is nearly as capable, unfortunately.
 
You make a good point. I thought maybe to go the DSLR route, with budget in mind, I looked at the Nikon D5300. Then I saw what it does when you try to shoot video with it. Look at this clip. Watch how the focus jumps around, and listen to the motor sounds that are picked up by the microphone:

I realized that I had to be careful to pick something in my budget that is also good at video.

When the action is right in front of me, which does happen at some meets, I sometimes switch to my phone's camera. It actually does a really nice job as long as you don't have to zoom in. I have even done the two-handed trick of putting the phone in 120fps video mode and shooting a vault with both the camera and phone at the same time.
 
If motion tracking is important to you, that'd limit your choice to either EM1ii or the future GH5 within the M43 selections. Under or near $1000, among mirrorless cams the discontinued Samsung NX500 does 4k w good AFC+tracking. None of others is nearly as capable, unfortunately.
You guys need to stop spreading this misinformation. For low light environments like this gym, I'd actually take a Panasonic DFD body over the E-M1 II. Panasonic actually makes the best low light focusing cams in single AF. Olympus isn't even close.

I don't know how the E-M1 II tracks in low light, but given Panasonic's clear edge in single AF in low light, there's not a chance I would tell the OP to take the E-M1 II or any Olympus cam over the G7.

DFD also does a very good job at tracking. Maybe not as good as high end DSLRs, but still probably more than enough for gymnastics.
 
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If motion tracking is important to you, that'd limit your choice to either EM1ii or the future GH5 within the M43 selections. Under or near $1000, among mirrorless cams the discontinued Samsung NX500 does 4k w good AFC+tracking. None of others is nearly as capable, unfortunately.
You guys need to stop spreading this misinformation. For low light environments like this gym, I'd actually take a Panasonic DFD body over the E-M1 II. Panasonic actually makes the best low light focusing cams in single AF. Olympus isn't even close.

I don't know how the E-M1 II tracks in low light, but given Panasonic's clear edge in single AF in low light, there's not a chance I would tell the OP to take the E-M1 II or any Olympus cam over the G7.

DFD also does a very good job at tracking. Maybe not as good as high end DSLRs, but still probably more than enough for gymnastics.
Before you accuse others of 'spreading misinformation', you should educate yourself more. Watch this well known comparison of AFC+tracking in video.

I have GX85 that has Panasonic's newest AF-technology, I can assure you after extensive testing this problem has not been solved.
 

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