EM1 mark2 and 4/3 glass

[Messier Object]

So why Olympus is not serving there 4/3 audiance the same way as their m4/3 owners?

Because their 4/3 audience is shrinking every day and there's no money in it.

Why the pro-capture feature is only possible on Olympus m4/3 glass and why video-AF is only possible on m4/3 glass and NOT on 4/3 glass???

It's not about the glass, it's about the mechanics.

M4/3 adds two additional contacts on the mount for lens communication. 4/3 doesn't communicate the lens' internal focus information to the camera body in the same way that M4/3 does. M4/3 lenses also have more precise focus motors than 4/3 lenses which makes them play nicer with videography.

what does AF have to do with Pro Capture mode ?

Does not Pro Capture mode work with an M.Zuiko Pro lens if the lens is used In MF mode, and the lens aperture set wide open ? In which case the camera does not need to communicate anything with the lens.

Peter

--
http://www.photoklarno.com

 

[GBC]

I wouldn't say they have done well but they have made an attempt. That attempt was to dead system users like you said and the timing of the dead system and the promise came after a major money scandal that certainly affected their trustworthiness in the eyes of some consumers. If they hadn't kept that promise hmmmm. There are a lot of factors I am guessing but profitability is likely the closest to the truth. They can make more money with the size, speed and quality of the new pro lenses and coax the old 4/3 folks to give in to the temptation when they limit the cameras that truly support the the older lenses. It also fits as part of their promise to make a smaller/portable system.

Silver

Iirc, the timing of the scandal breaking and the announcement that the OM-D series would pick up where the E-5 left off were too close for the two events to have had much to do with one another when it came to actual product development. I don't know the lead time for their development cycles, but I'm guessing it's measured in years.

Olympus did make a big PR deal out of not fully abandoning 4/3 customers, but I don't think they had much choice since it was the only mount they had going at the time. Being a relatively small corporation and clearly in financial trouble (even if only known to insiders), they couldn't afford to simply walk away from their 4/3 base like Panasonic did.

I find your last statement odd.

Olympus has twice the market cap of Nikon. and is about one quarter the size of Sony.

Small relative to whom?

 

[453C]

Sorry. Why pro capture is disabled.

My guess is that it's another brand specific feature that Olympus is using to promote sales of their lenses, not a technical barrier that a modern Panasonic lens couldn't overcome. Iirc, Pro Capture only available on Olympus PRO lenses and a few of their pricier options; cheap lenses need not apply.

Discussion on the topic here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58704768

Panasonic offers powered zoom on some lenses (no joy on Olympus bodies), which is another differentiator.

 

[Martin.au]

The cross-sized phase detection points on the EM1 mark 2's sensor (on sensor PDAF) are very important for all the owners of old Olympus 4/3 glass.

The quality of this old 4/3 glass is still unrivalled,.........:
1) the m4/3 12-40mm and 12-100mm are inferior to the 4/3 12-60mm (12-60mm has a bit more resolution, more contrast en better bokeh),

I shot these two almost side by side. The 12-40 is better. Resolution and contrast are comparable, and the 12-40 has much better distortion characteristics.

2) the 4/3 14-35mm has no equivalence,

Neither does the 40-150 f2.8, or 75mm, etc.

3) the 4/3 35-100mm zoom at 45mm has better IQ and smoother bokeh than the m4/3 45mm f1.8 prime,

I would hope so, seeing as it's "yuge" and expensive, instead of a cheap, plastic prime.

4) the 4/3 50mm f2.0 has better IQ and more contrast than the 45mm f1.8 prime,

Same

5) the 4/3 150mm f2.0 is unbeatable.

As is the 75mm

Overall 4/3 glass has better IQ, smoother bokeh and more contrast and microcontrast.

Nope

So why Olympus is not serving there 4/3 audiance the same way as their m4/3 owners?

Why the pro-capture feature is only possible on Olympus m4/3 glass and why video-AF is only possible on m4/3 glass and NOT on 4/3 glass???

Because the focus groups are different. M4/3s glass uses a different focussing mechanism, that can move rapidly and silently.

 

[453C]

I wouldn't say they have done well but they have made an attempt. That attempt was to dead system users like you said and the timing of the dead system and the promise came after a major money scandal that certainly affected their trustworthiness in the eyes of some consumers. If they hadn't kept that promise hmmmm. There are a lot of factors I am guessing but profitability is likely the closest to the truth. They can make more money with the size, speed and quality of the new pro lenses and coax the old 4/3 folks to give in to the temptation when they limit the cameras that truly support the the older lenses. It also fits as part of their promise to make a smaller/portable system.

Silver

Iirc, the timing of the scandal breaking and the announcement that the OM-D series would pick up where the E-5 left off were too close for the two events to have had much to do with one another when it came to actual product development. I don't know the lead time for their development cycles, but I'm guessing it's measured in years.

Olympus did make a big PR deal out of not fully abandoning 4/3 customers, but I don't think they had much choice since it was the only mount they had going at the time. Being a relatively small corporation and clearly in financial trouble (even if only known to insiders), they couldn't afford to simply walk away from their 4/3 base like Panasonic did.

I find your last statement odd.
Olympus has twice the market cap of Nikon. and is about one quarter the size of Sony.
Small relative to whom?

Remember, we're talking about five years ago.

Small relative to Panasonic, which had little investment in still photography at that point anyway. I don't know how things stack up today, but the scandal had a large impact on Olympus at the time. Many were speculating that Olympus would fold up, with camera & medical imaging divisions being acquired by Sony or Panasonic.

Olympus scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[GBC]

Sorry. Why pro capture is disabled.

My guess is that it's another brand specific feature that Olympus is using to promote sales of their lenses, not a technical barrier that a modern Panasonic lens couldn't overcome. Iirc, Pro Capture only available on Olympus PRO lenses and a few of their pricier options; cheap lenses need not apply.

Discussion on the topic here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58704768

Panasonic offers powered zoom on some lenses (no joy on Olympus bodies), which is another differentiator.

Not sure where you are getting your info, but pro capture works on all Olympus micro four thirds lenses. First edition 14-42 and the 8mm body cap lens included.

 

[453C]

So why Olympus is not serving there 4/3 audiance the same way as their m4/3 owners?

Because their 4/3 audience is shrinking every day and there's no money in it.

Why the pro-capture feature is only possible on Olympus m4/3 glass and why video-AF is only possible on m4/3 glass and NOT on 4/3 glass???

It's not about the glass, it's about the mechanics.

M4/3 adds two additional contacts on the mount for lens communication. 4/3 doesn't communicate the lens' internal focus information to the camera body in the same way that M4/3 does. M4/3 lenses also have more precise focus motors than 4/3 lenses which makes them play nicer with videography.

what does AF have to do with Pro Capture mode ?

Does not Pro Capture mode work with an M.Zuiko Pro lens if the lens is used In MF mode, and the lens aperture set wide open ? In which case the camera does not need to communicate anything with the lens.

I doubt Pro Capture is technically limited to a short list of Olympus lenses, but they want to sell those lenses. It's likely a marketing decision on their part, just like so many other decisions businesses make. I'd prefer there weren't any artificial limitations, but there's nothing wrong with a company trying to drive sales by promoting unique features.

 

[453C]

Sorry. Why pro capture is disabled.

My guess is that it's another brand specific feature that Olympus is using to promote sales of their lenses, not a technical barrier that a modern Panasonic lens couldn't overcome. Iirc, Pro Capture only available on Olympus PRO lenses and a few of their pricier options; cheap lenses need not apply.

Discussion on the topic here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58704768

Panasonic offers powered zoom on some lenses (no joy on Olympus bodies), which is another differentiator.

Not sure where you are getting your info, but pro capture works on all Olympus micro four thirds lenses. First edition 14-42 and the 8mm body cap lens included.

Cool. I haven't kept up with the Mark II rollout and I thought I saw an official list posted somewhere that limited Pro Capture to certain lenses.

Still, what I said holds true. Olympus is in business to sell Olympus products. Limiting Pro Capture to their products makes good business sense, even if we don't like it.

 

[GBC]

Sorry. Why pro capture is disabled.

My guess is that it's another brand specific feature that Olympus is using to promote sales of their lenses, not a technical barrier that a modern Panasonic lens couldn't overcome. Iirc, Pro Capture only available on Olympus PRO lenses and a few of their pricier options; cheap lenses need not apply.

Discussion on the topic here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58704768

Panasonic offers powered zoom on some lenses (no joy on Olympus bodies), which is another differentiator.

Not sure where you are getting your info, but pro capture works on all Olympus micro four thirds lenses. First edition 14-42 and the 8mm body cap lens included.

Cool. I haven't kept up with the Mark II rollout and I thought I saw an official list posted somewhere that limited Pro Capture to certain lenses.

Still, what I said holds true. Olympus is in business to sell Olympus products. Limiting Pro Capture to their products makes good business sense, even if we don't like it.

As the OP stated, why would Olympus move to restrict usage of their 43rds lenses? I don't see how that makes any business sense.

 

[453C]

Lots of off topic info and conjecture in this thread.

I too find it strange that pro capture is not enabled with the old four thirds lenses. What factor would limit the use, I don't know.

If I used my voightlander 17.5mm on my em1 mk2, what about this lens would prevent pro capture from working? None that u can think of.

I suspect the support for the four thirds lenses could be added via firmware.

In you list you forgot the 7-14 f4, unrivalled.

The 90-250 is unrivalled. The 300 f2.8 unrivalled.

All these lenses were designed to out resolve 20 mpix sensors. I would put the pro lenses on par with the high grade lenses from the 43rds days.

The quality of non-MFT lenses is immaterial to the availability of Pro Capture mode.

Olympus wants to sell their new cameras and lenses to customers, and they want to promote their current ILC format. Pro Capture is just another feature offered by the new, for the new.

 

[GBC]

When I asked my Oly rep why pro capture wasn't supported by the em1 mk2, he said it was.

I showed him it was not, and he told me the is "Stupidest f**king thing he's has ever heard" and it should be fixed in an upcoming firmware update.

I tend to agree with him.

 

[453C]

Sorry. Why pro capture is disabled.

My guess is that it's another brand specific feature that Olympus is using to promote sales of their lenses, not a technical barrier that a modern Panasonic lens couldn't overcome. Iirc, Pro Capture only available on Olympus PRO lenses and a few of their pricier options; cheap lenses need not apply.

Discussion on the topic here:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/58704768

Panasonic offers powered zoom on some lenses (no joy on Olympus bodies), which is another differentiator.

Not sure where you are getting your info, but pro capture works on all Olympus micro four thirds lenses. First edition 14-42 and the 8mm body cap lens included.

Cool. I haven't kept up with the Mark II rollout and I thought I saw an official list posted somewhere that limited Pro Capture to certain lenses.

Still, what I said holds true. Olympus is in business to sell Olympus products. Limiting Pro Capture to their products makes good business sense, even if we don't like it.

As the OP stated, why would Olympus move to restrict usage of their 43rds lenses? I don't see how that makes any business sense.

At some point, Olympus will cut off 4/3 support. Decisions like this are signposts on that road. Businesses do this all the time to help drive sales of new products, which is very sensible for them to do, whether we like it or not.

 

[453C]

When I asked my Oly rep why pro capture wasn't supported by the em1 mk2, he said it was.
I showed him it was not, and he told me the is "Stupidest f**king thing he's has ever heard" and it should be fixed in an upcoming firmware update.
I tend to agree with him.

I don't think it's stupid at all from a business perspective, but I wouldn't mind seeing Olympus open up the feature to non-Olympus, non-MFT lenses. In that, we agree.

 

[GBC]

Maybe that's true, maybe it is not.

Do you have any proof of this, or is it just conjecture?

 

[453C]

Maybe that's true, maybe it is not.
Do you have any proof of this, or is it just conjecture?

No, I have no proof that Olympus will drop 4/3 support. I don't think it's a stretch to see that it will happen, though. How much effort do you expect a company to put into supporting a system that has been replaced and is no longer promoted?

Do you believe Olympus will continue to support 4/3 indefinitely? That seems a much less likely proposition.

 

[Silverback46]

I wouldn't say they have done well but they have made an attempt. That attempt was to dead system users like you said and the timing of the dead system and the promise came after a major money scandal that certainly affected their trustworthiness in the eyes of some consumers. If they hadn't kept that promise hmmmm. There are a lot of factors I am guessing but profitability is likely the closest to the truth. They can make more money with the size, speed and quality of the new pro lenses and coax the old 4/3 folks to give in to the temptation when they limit the cameras that truly support the the older lenses. It also fits as part of their promise to make a smaller/portable system.

Silver

Iirc, the timing of the scandal breaking and the announcement that the OM-D series would pick up where the E-5 left off were too close for the two events to have had much to do with one another when it came to actual product development. I don't know the lead time for their development cycles, but I'm guessing it's measured in years.

Olympus did make a big PR deal out of not fully abandoning 4/3 customers, but I don't think they had much choice since it was the only mount they had going at the time. Being a relatively small corporation and clearly in financial trouble (even if only known to insiders), they couldn't afford to simply walk away from their 4/3 base like Panasonic did.

I agree about the choice totally. When you look at the release of the EPL1 in Feb 2010 and then the E-5 in Sept 2010 followed by the constant chatter of 4/3rds being dead and then the scandal breaking it was not a great time for 4/3rds users. When you consider the comment you made about product development cycles in years how does that then appear for Olympus? They are under no obligation to tell their consumers what they are planning but the position. At the same time with what happened in those two years their consumers may certainly have had doubts about their trust.

Silver

 

[avalvo]

I'd love to see Olympus redesign the 150mm f2. I love that lens. It would be killer in native m43 with that bright aperture and fast focusing.

Anthony

 

[GBC]

Maybe that's true, maybe it is not.
Do you have any proof of this, or is it just conjecture?

No, I have no proof that Olympus will drop 4/3 support. I don't think it's a stretch to see that it will happen, though. How much effort do you expect a company to put into supporting a system that has been replaced and is no longer promoted?

Do you believe Olympus will continue to support 4/3 indefinitely? That seems a much less likely proposition.

Good question. They will support 43rds lenses if their is money to be made doing so.

I think many buyers of the em1 mk2 are people with these 43rds lenses. Oly wants to sell bodies, and pro capture is a great way to do it. Limiting the customers you have for this feature in order to get them to switch to buying new lenses is not the most prudent course of action in my opinion.

I think the first step to Olympus dropping support for these lenses would be to stop making and selling them, much like Panasonic has done.

When their is a replacement for all the SHG glass, I expect them to stop supporting those lenses (or when the guy who hand polishes and hand selects lens elements to build a 300 f2.8 dies) then they may switch over to all micro lenses.

It costs them practically nothing to continue support, and their new camera will likely actually increase sales of the niche lenses.

 

[OzRay]

I'd love to see Olympus redesign the 150mm f2. I love that lens. It would be killer in native m43 with that bright aperture and fast focusing.

And it would probably be about the same size as the existing 150mm f2.

 

[Torsten Hoff]

I think people are oversimplifying the Pro Capture mode in their minds and what it takes to implement it.

The lenses don't stop down while you use the EVF (unless you use DOF Preview), the aperture blades normally only move when you press the shutter button.

But for Pro Capture, the camera is expected to transparently take multiple images using the aperture you (or the camera) have selected. You also want that to happen without any interference with the EVF.

I honestly don't think most lenses that weren't designed with Pro Capture in mind would be able to physically keep up with its demands.