Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?

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FOTONOTO Junior Member • Posts: 45
Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
21

Still no touchscreen on A99II? I don't understand.

This makes me worry about the coming A9 and A7III. I was hoping them to have a touchscreen focus box dragging system like the EOS M5, which is the most intuitive way to choose where to focus, especially for mirrorless.

I'm sure that Sony want us to use lock-on AF more, and slowly forget the old DSLR style focus point selection way. But right now lock-on AF is still not as reliable as "flexible point". I'm 100% sure that "focus box dragging" like EOS M5 will be way more efficient when it comes to focus.

Besides, touchscreen is not something that will dramatically increase the cost, and if some users don't like it, they can just turn off the function.

It doesn't make sense.

In my dream, Sony might provide some kind of paid service that can let me send my A7R2 back to factory and change the LCD into a touchscreen. I'll pay another thousand for it (well, since it will never happen, just name it).

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Rey66
Rey66 Senior Member • Posts: 1,232
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
18

IMO, even if they put a touch screen, I wont be using it much. You can barely see your screen on a sunny day. I use the viewfinder 98% of the time. The wheel and custom button is enough for me to change the focus area while I dont take my eyes in viewfinder..

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spacemn Senior Member • Posts: 1,713
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
1

FOTONOTO wrote:

Still no touchscreen on A99II? I don't understand.

This makes me worry about the coming A9 and A7III. I was hoping them to have a touchscreen focus box dragging system like the EOS M5, which is the most intuitive way to choose where to focus, especially for mirrorless.

I'm sure that Sony want us to use lock-on AF more, and slowly forget the old DSLR style focus point selection way. But right now lock-on AF is still not as reliable as "flexible point". I'm 100% sure that "focus box dragging" like EOS M5 will be way more efficient when it comes to focus.

Besides, touchscreen is not something that will dramatically increase the cost, and if some users don't like it, they can just turn off the function.

It doesn't make sense.

In my dream, Sony might provide some kind of paid service that can let me send my A7R2 back to factory and change the LCD into a touchscreen. I'll pay another thousand for it (well, since it will never happen, just name it).

I agree, even an implementation like the one on my Sony A5100 is good, as you can select focus points and touch to focus during video recording.

I guess Sony is working on a full overhaul of their menu system which will be touch centric and after that most if not all new bodies will come with touch screens. Other wise it is worrying, as this is so important for many when it comes to usability.

Hopefully the A99-ii will use up the remaining 3" LCD screens used for Sony bodies and going fwd we will just see touch screens

brick33308
brick33308 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,644
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
22

Rey66 wrote:

IMO, even if they put a touch screen, I wont be using it much. You can barely see your screen on a sunny day. I use the viewfinder 98% of the time. The wheel and custom button is enough for me to change the focus area while I dont take my eyes in viewfinder..

I found the touch screen on my Oly E-M1 incredibly useful, even in full sunlight. And I'd love to have it on the successor to my A7RII (along with weather sealing).

rogerjosem
rogerjosem Senior Member • Posts: 1,301
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
8

FOTONOTO wrote:

In my dream, Sony might provide some kind of paid service that can let me send my A7R2 back to factory and change the LCD into a touchscreen. I'll pay another thousand for it (well, since it will never happen, just name it).

Wow, I have to say I was thinking about the same thing this morning (before even knowing a new A99 was announced). I would gladly pay for a tilting (or maybe fully movable -selfie style) touchscreen upgrade on any of my A7x

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landshark Contributing Member • Posts: 515
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
13

touchscreen need highly over rated

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sean lancaster
sean lancaster Veteran Member • Posts: 7,064
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
26

Rey66 wrote:

IMO, even if they put a touch screen, I wont be using it much. You can barely see your screen on a sunny day. I use the viewfinder 98% of the time. The wheel and custom button is enough for me to change the focus area while I dont take my eyes in viewfinder..

That's great for you to not care about it, and I appreciate that you opened the thread and gave us your thoughts. However, there are many of us who would love to have the feature. I used it much of the time on my NEX 5N and it was great technology back in 2011 when that camera came out (and I still use it and it's still working on my back up camera). I know it doesn't add meaningful costs to the camera since the software is already developed and replacement screens for older iPhones are sometimes just a few dollars on Ebay (and this smaller screen is pennies for Sony). The cost to Sony is not why we're missing it on the A7 series . . . I think it's because it's not perceived as a professional feature. But if hitting the wheel and pressing right a few times and up a few times is professional, then I am perplexed why someone else could prefer that when shooting with the LCD (e.g., and sure, for viewfinder shooting, perhaps that works). But for LCD shooting (and we do have an LCD screen on the back very prominently), I could so much more easily touch a part of the image when I want to set focus and get it instantly. By the time I press the wheel, I could have already touched the screen and started shooting. And the feature could easily be turned off and then Rey66 and others who don't want it can forget touch exists and be on their merry way.

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VirtualRain
VirtualRain Regular Member • Posts: 188
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
1
  • FOTONOTO wrote:

Still no touchscreen on A99II? I don't understand.

This makes me worry about the coming A9 and A7III. I was hoping them to have a touchscreen focus box dragging system like the EOS M5, which is the most intuitive way to choose where to focus, especially for mirrorless.

I'm sure that Sony want us to use lock-on AF more, and slowly forget the old DSLR style focus point selection way. But right now lock-on AF is still not as reliable as "flexible point". I'm 100% sure that "focus box dragging" like EOS M5 will be way more efficient when it comes to focus.

Besides, touchscreen is not something that will dramatically increase the cost, and if some users don't like it, they can just turn off the function.

It doesn't make sense.

In my dream, Sony might provide some kind of paid service that can let me send my A7R2 back to factory and change the LCD into a touchscreen. I'll pay another thousand for it (well, since it will never happen, just name it).

It seems pretty clear that the A99II is essentially an A7RII in an A-mount body. So if a touch screen is coming to Sony camera land, it will likely be the A7 series that gets it first.

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mfenske
mfenske Junior Member • Posts: 45
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
8

I'm in total agreement about the lack of touchscreen. I recently picked up a Canon 70d and I find the touchscreen super helpful for changing things like focus location and shooting mode. I'd really like to go full-frame soon and the 5D MkIV looks to check all the boxes-if Sony can do a FF with a touchscreen I'm in!

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Krich13 Contributing Member • Posts: 685
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
1

FOTONOTO wrote:

Still no touchscreen on A99II? I don't understand.

This makes me worry about the coming A9 and A7III. I was hoping them to have a touchscreen focus box dragging system like the EOS M5, which is the most intuitive way to choose where to focus, especially for mirrorless.

Because they need to keep some features out for future upgrades.

Jeff2013
Jeff2013 Senior Member • Posts: 1,622
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
1

The R&D Cost to Sales ratio for Sony cameras is likely through the roof compared to other manufacturers, given all the amazing technology they have been developing and the relatively low sales volumes compared to Nikon or Canon.  I would guess that they had to make some tough decisions about deployment of development resources and "touchscreen" simply did not make the list... this time.

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Mordi
Mordi Senior Member • Posts: 1,771
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
1

sean lancaster wrote:

Rey66 wrote:

IMO, even if they put a touch screen, I wont be using it much. You can barely see your screen on a sunny day. I use the viewfinder 98% of the time. The wheel and custom button is enough for me to change the focus area while I dont take my eyes in viewfinder..

That's great for you to not care about it, and I appreciate that you opened the thread and gave us your thoughts. However, there are many of us who would love to have the feature. I used it much of the time on my NEX 5N and it was great technology back in 2011 when that camera came out (and I still use it and it's still working on my back up camera). I know it doesn't add meaningful costs to the camera since the software is already developed and replacement screens for older iPhones are sometimes just a few dollars on Ebay (and this smaller screen is pennies for Sony). The cost to Sony is not why we're missing it on the A7 series . . . I think it's because it's not perceived as a professional feature. But if hitting the wheel and pressing right a few times and up a few times is professional, then I am perplexed why someone else could prefer that when shooting with the LCD (e.g., and sure, for viewfinder shooting, perhaps that works). But for LCD shooting (and we do have an LCD screen on the back very prominently), I could so much more easily touch a part of the image when I want to set focus and get it instantly. By the time I press the wheel, I could have already touched the screen and started shooting. And the feature could easily be turned off and then Rey66 and others who don't want it can forget touch exists and be on their merry way.

Sean - how do you use a touchscreen if the camera is pressed to your eye? I can see if a camera has no EVF, and you have the camera on a tripod under a hood like we used with field cameras in the film era. But how do you shoot anything moving or in bright sunlight and use a touchscreen?

Maybe I have the LCD illumination on my cameras set too low, but I find it my LCD useless outdoors.

Mordi

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sean lancaster
sean lancaster Veteran Member • Posts: 7,064
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
2

Mordi wrote:

sean lancaster wrote:

Rey66 wrote:

IMO, even if they put a touch screen, I wont be using it much. You can barely see your screen on a sunny day. I use the viewfinder 98% of the time. The wheel and custom button is enough for me to change the focus area while I dont take my eyes in viewfinder..

That's great for you to not care about it, and I appreciate that you opened the thread and gave us your thoughts. However, there are many of us who would love to have the feature. I used it much of the time on my NEX 5N and it was great technology back in 2011 when that camera came out (and I still use it and it's still working on my back up camera). I know it doesn't add meaningful costs to the camera since the software is already developed and replacement screens for older iPhones are sometimes just a few dollars on Ebay (and this smaller screen is pennies for Sony). The cost to Sony is not why we're missing it on the A7 series . . . I think it's because it's not perceived as a professional feature. But if hitting the wheel and pressing right a few times and up a few times is professional, then I am perplexed why someone else could prefer that when shooting with the LCD (e.g., and sure, for viewfinder shooting, perhaps that works). But for LCD shooting (and we do have an LCD screen on the back very prominently), I could so much more easily touch a part of the image when I want to set focus and get it instantly. By the time I press the wheel, I could have already touched the screen and started shooting. And the feature could easily be turned off and then Rey66 and others who don't want it can forget touch exists and be on their merry way.

Sean - how do you use a touchscreen if the camera is pressed to your eye? I can see if a camera has no EVF, and you have the camera on a tripod under a hood like we used with field cameras in the film era. But how do you shoot anything moving or in bright sunlight and use a touchscreen?

Maybe I have the LCD illumination on my cameras set too low, but I find it my LCD useless outdoors.

As I noted, you can't. But 90% of my shooting is with the LCD. It's how I learned on the 5N and it still works for me for the kinds of shooting I do.

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superchalupa Contributing Member • Posts: 515
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
2

Mordi wrote:

sean lancaster wrote:

Rey66 wrote:

IMO, even if they put a touch screen, I wont be using it much. You can barely see your screen on a sunny day. I use the viewfinder 98% of the time. The wheel and custom button is enough for me to change the focus area while I dont take my eyes in viewfinder..

That's great for you to not care about it, and I appreciate that you opened the thread and gave us your thoughts. However, there are many of us who would love to have the feature. I used it much of the time on my NEX 5N and it was great technology back in 2011 when that camera came out (and I still use it and it's still working on my back up camera). I know it doesn't add meaningful costs to the camera since the software is already developed and replacement screens for older iPhones are sometimes just a few dollars on Ebay (and this smaller screen is pennies for Sony). The cost to Sony is not why we're missing it on the A7 series . . . I think it's because it's not perceived as a professional feature. But if hitting the wheel and pressing right a few times and up a few times is professional, then I am perplexed why someone else could prefer that when shooting with the LCD (e.g., and sure, for viewfinder shooting, perhaps that works). But for LCD shooting (and we do have an LCD screen on the back very prominently), I could so much more easily touch a part of the image when I want to set focus and get it instantly. By the time I press the wheel, I could have already touched the screen and started shooting. And the feature could easily be turned off and then Rey66 and others who don't want it can forget touch exists and be on their merry way.

Sean - how do you use a touchscreen if the camera is pressed to your eye? I can see if a camera has no EVF, and you have the camera on a tripod under a hood like we used with field cameras in the film era. But how do you shoot anything moving or in bright sunlight and use a touchscreen?

Maybe I have the LCD illumination on my cameras set too low, but I find it my LCD useless outdoors.

The promo videos for the Canon M5 show using the back touch screen to select focus while using the EVF. Not sure how practical it is for focus selection like that, but it would be amazingly useful for so much other stuf...

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NumberOne Veteran Member • Posts: 3,409
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?

Rey66 wrote:

IMO, even if they put a touch screen, I wont be using it much. You can barely see your screen on a sunny day.

Not even questionable!

I use the viewfinder 98% of the time. The wheel and custom button is enough for me to change the focus area while I dont take my eyes in viewfinder..

However, a joystick is not hard to implement and would work so much better...

...And anyway, a touchscreen can be so easily turned "off" - Just saying!

All the best,
Pedro

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Vcize
Vcize Regular Member • Posts: 423
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
9

Mordi wrote:

sean lancaster wrote:

Rey66 wrote:

IMO, even if they put a touch screen, I wont be using it much. You can barely see your screen on a sunny day. I use the viewfinder 98% of the time. The wheel and custom button is enough for me to change the focus area while I dont take my eyes in viewfinder..

That's great for you to not care about it, and I appreciate that you opened the thread and gave us your thoughts. However, there are many of us who would love to have the feature. I used it much of the time on my NEX 5N and it was great technology back in 2011 when that camera came out (and I still use it and it's still working on my back up camera). I know it doesn't add meaningful costs to the camera since the software is already developed and replacement screens for older iPhones are sometimes just a few dollars on Ebay (and this smaller screen is pennies for Sony). The cost to Sony is not why we're missing it on the A7 series . . . I think it's because it's not perceived as a professional feature. But if hitting the wheel and pressing right a few times and up a few times is professional, then I am perplexed why someone else could prefer that when shooting with the LCD (e.g., and sure, for viewfinder shooting, perhaps that works). But for LCD shooting (and we do have an LCD screen on the back very prominently), I could so much more easily touch a part of the image when I want to set focus and get it instantly. By the time I press the wheel, I could have already touched the screen and started shooting. And the feature could easily be turned off and then Rey66 and others who don't want it can forget touch exists and be on their merry way.

Sean - how do you use a touchscreen if the camera is pressed to your eye? I can see if a camera has no EVF, and you have the camera on a tripod under a hood like we used with field cameras in the film era. But how do you shoot anything moving or in bright sunlight and use a touchscreen?

Maybe I have the LCD illumination on my cameras set too low, but I find it my LCD useless outdoors.

Mordi

Having a touchscreen on the body does not prevent your viewfinder from working.  You can still move the AF point the old school way when you're looking through the viewfinder.

Imagine being at a concert and holding the camera up over your head, tilting the screen down, and just touching where you want to focus with one hand while you hold/snap away with the other.

Imagine photographing your toddler running around by just holding the camera at waste level or below, tilting the screen up and touching the kid's eye with one hand and dragging it around as he moves.  No frog hops bumping into other kids, needing to lie on the ground as some other adult trips over you, etc.

Imagine shooting birds from a tripod or gimbal.  One hand moves the camera around and snaps while the other merely taps on the bird's face and follows it around as it moves.  Easy peasy.  And these are just the beginning.

Honestly, it's kind of a joke that it's taken these companies this long to get this implemented.  It seems pretty clear that it's just a matter of holding things back so they have something else to charge people for later.

And yes, with the viewfinder brightness cranked up I haven't had a problem using it even in bright sunlight.  It's going to eat your batteries faster, but again it's not like the old viewfinder and move AF points approach will stop working if that's what you prefer or if your battery is running low and you want to conserve it.

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Rey66
Rey66 Senior Member • Posts: 1,232
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?

sean lancaster wrote:

Rey66 wrote:

IMO, even if they put a touch screen, I wont be using it much. You can barely see your screen on a sunny day. I use the viewfinder 98% of the time. The wheel and custom button is enough for me to change the focus area while I dont take my eyes in viewfinder..

That's great for you to not care about it, and I appreciate that you opened the thread and gave us your thoughts. However, there are many of us who would love to have the feature. I used it much of the time on my NEX 5N and it was great technology back in 2011 when that camera came out (and I still use it and it's still working on my back up camera). I know it doesn't add meaningful costs to the camera since the software is already developed and replacement screens for older iPhones are sometimes just a few dollars on Ebay (and this smaller screen is pennies for Sony). The cost to Sony is not why we're missing it on the A7 series . . . I think it's because it's not perceived as a professional feature. But if hitting the wheel and pressing right a few times and up a few times is professional, then I am perplexed why someone else could prefer that when shooting with the LCD (e.g., and sure, for viewfinder shooting, perhaps that works). But for LCD shooting (and we do have an LCD screen on the back very prominently), I could so much more easily touch a part of the image when I want to set focus and get it instantly. By the time I press the wheel, I could have already touched the screen and started shooting. And the feature could easily be turned off and then Rey66 and others who don't want it can forget touch exists and be on their merry way.

To each his own I guess, but I can accomplish moving focus to the side by just locking on subject and move side to side holding the backfocus button.  I think Sony did not find this a major factor why this camera is selling good.

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sean lancaster
sean lancaster Veteran Member • Posts: 7,064
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
2

Rey66 wrote:

To each his own I guess, but I can accomplish moving focus to the side by just locking on subject and move side to side holding the backfocus button. I think Sony did not find this a major factor why this camera is selling good.

Not having competition has largely resulted in their growing market share. The A7 sold okay without body stabilization and with terrible AF. The A7RII fixed both of those things and it's why I bought it; not because I wanted a camera without a touch screen. There is no full frame mirrorless camera with a touch screen, though, so I buy for other reasons.

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Dave Sanders Senior Member • Posts: 2,207
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?
12

Mordi wrote:

Sean - how do you use a touchscreen if the camera is pressed to your eye?

With a Panasonic, with your thumb. It can be set to be used as a giant touchpad when the viewfinder is in use. Surprisingly easy in use. Also, I used the touch screen all the time for waist level shooting with touch to focus/release. Great for candid moments, especially with family and small children who move quickly.  On a Panasonic, you can also change AF point size doing a standard pinch to zoom in/out. You can 'grab' the live histogram and move it around your frame to get it out of the way or position it where you want as well.  In playback you can pinch to zoom or swipe to scroll as well.

I can see if a camera has no EVF, and you have the camera on a tripod under a hood like we used with field cameras in the film era.

Yes, very useful on a tripod, especially for changing settings/functions.

But how do you shoot anything moving or in bright sunlight and use a touchscreen?

That's when you use the EVF...it's not an either/or proposition.

Maybe I have the LCD illumination on my cameras set too low, but I find it my LCD useless outdoors.

We live in very different climates or choose to shoot at very different times of the day...I'm not often out in very bright sun. But then again, I'm from Vancouver...I'll see the sun next in, um, AprilĀ 

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Dave Sanders

sumofallfears Regular Member • Posts: 347
Re: Why is Sony so reluctant about touchscreen?

Rey66 wrote:

IMO, even if they put a touch screen, I wont be using it much. You can barely see your screen on a sunny day. I use the viewfinder 98% of the time. The wheel and custom button is enough for me to change the focus area while I dont take my eyes in viewfinder..

this is honest. but at times when you have those shots where you can't put your head behind the camera and you're in a weird angle it would be much easier to touch the point of focus vs moving around a freaking square and having to constantly recompose because this stupid screen doesn't have a touch screen.

It is so freaking difficult to take pictures on the ground, in the air, angles and stuff and I'll spend like 5-10 minutes trying to compose and move these squares around with these stupid dials.

You must take some boring photos if you don't care for a touch screen, one thing I miss about my 1 month of using a canon 70d and t6i

You're voting against your own self interest with you post....hilarious.

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