Best sub £500 choice for beginner

[cpmbailey]

Hi all,

I'm a beginner looking to get more into photography. I understand a fair amount of the basics having used several zoom cameras with manual settings but am now ready to get my first mirrorless camera. The ones I keep coming back to are the Sony A6000, Panasonic G7, Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II and Fuji X-T10 all of which are in the £400-500 range with kit lens. Due to my level, I think it is best to look at a solid all rounder as I expect to start with landscapes, portraits, wildlife and night shots, with a view to doing friends' weddings, concerts etc. The Sony was my front runner for its image quality and praise at this price point but reasons why I may not get it are the lack of a fully articulating LCD (my girlfriend still likes to take the odd selfie and it has to be better than a smartphone), and a lot more importantly, the ecosystem of lenses. The impression I get is that there is more bang for the buck to be had with the micro 4/3 lineup. If I was to get the Sony it would no doubt be the Sigma range I went for. I'm currently leaning to the Panny as that also has the best video performance and 4k photo mode will no doubt come in useful. My reservations are its image quality and lack of features such as image stabilization, weather proofing etc. Is the image quality going to be almost as good as the others when using the electronic shutter and only viewing on a computer? My current plan is the camera with kit lens and supplement it with the Olympus M.Zuiko 40-150 now (£144) and then possibly the Olympus M.Zuiko 45 (£179) for portraits later. Would this be a reasonable use for this amount of cash or is it better splashing out a few hundred more for something like the GX8 or GX85 or even more for say a GH4, A6300 or E-M5 Mark II.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[Limburger]

Hi Chris,

That is already quite a variety of subjects to begin with.

Go from the lenses and see what you need is available at what cost.

As for different sensors they come with advantages as disadvantagres.

For M43 an advantage is that you can get some reach for reasonable prices and less bulk compared to bigger sensors. The disadvantage is that there is simply less light to play with. You can partially compensate things like getting a faster lens. Another thing to look for is when doing portraiture will you be able to blur the background as desired.

They are both good systems but good Fuji glass is not cheap and quite bulky too.

With M43 you could do all subjects mentioned with a small messenger bag and all lenses available.

I have seen people move from pro DSLR to M43 and vice versa, it all boils down to personal preference.

Some reviews of lenses

Some photos of specific lenses.

 

[KCook]

Good points by Mike

Links for various views on mirrorless choices -

Which Mirrorless?

Sony A6000 or Olympus OM-D M10 Mark ii

Advice and opinions for compare APSC and m4\3 systems

Kelly Cook

 

[Limburger]

Good points by Mike

Links for various views on mirrorless choices -

Which Mirrorless?

Sony A6000 or Olympus OM-D M10 Mark ii

Advice and opinions for compare APSC and m4\3 systems

Kelly Cook

No matter what system I shoot with I will always be an amateur

--
Cheers Mike
Register and vote.

 

[Alphoid]

The ones I keep coming back to are the Sony A6000, Panasonic G7, Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II and Fuji X-T10 all of which are in the £400-500 range with kit lens.

That seems like a good short list.

Due to my level, I think it is best to look at a solid all rounder as I expect to start with landscapes, portraits, wildlife and night shots, with a view to doing friends' weddings, concerts etc.

Do you plan to use tripod and/or flash? There's a big difference as to whether you want/need stabilization.

my girlfriend still likes to take the odd selfie and it has to be better than a smartphone

I'll mention some wifi cameras do this pretty well with cell phone control. Actually impressively well. And some rather poorly. But I'd much rather frame a shot looking at the image on my phone than on the camera.

The impression I get is that there is more bang for the buck to be had with the micro 4/3 lineup.

Without a doubt. But it depends on the specific lenses you're buying.

I'm currently leaning to the Panny as that also has the best video performance and 4k photo mode will no doubt come in useful. My reservations are its image quality and lack of features such as image stabilization, weather proofing etc. Is the image quality going to be almost as good as the others when using the electronic shutter and only viewing on a computer?

...

Would this be a reasonable use for this amount of cash or is it better splashing out a few hundred more for something like the GX8 or GX85 or even more for say a GH4, A6300 or E-M5 Mark II.

Only you can say. But it depends on what prices you're seeing. At the prices on Amazon US right now, I wouldn't consider anything other than an OM-D EM10 right now, but that's because there's a huge discount right now. If UK is flipped, and there's a discount on the E-M5II or GX8, I'd say the opposite.

My current plan is the camera with kit lens and supplement it with the Olympus M.Zuiko 40-150 now (£144) and then possibly the Olympus M.Zuiko 45 (£179) for portraits later.

That seems like a reasonable set of lenses. The 45mm is a fantastic lens, but I'd wait a few months to buy it. Just to make sure it's the right focal length, which you'll discover as you use the kit lens and kit telephoto.

 

[golfhov]

Hi all,

I'm a beginner looking to get more into photography. I understand a fair amount of the basics having used several zoom cameras with manual settings but am now ready to get my first mirrorless camera. The ones I keep coming back to are the Sony A6000, Panasonic G7, Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II and Fuji X-T10 all of which are in the £400-500 range with kit lens. Due to my level, I think it is best to look at a solid all rounder as I expect to start with landscapes, portraits, wildlife and night shots, with a view to doing friends' weddings, concerts etc. The Sony was my front runner for its image quality and praise at this price point but reasons why I may not get it are the lack of a fully articulating LCD (my girlfriend still likes to take the odd selfie and it has to be better than a smartphone),

That actually eliminates a few of these. Most do have wifi and apps for a different way of shooting selfies.......to each his own. If you do want a forward facing LCD that will reduce your options

and a lot more importantly, the ecosystem of lenses.

Yup Sony has less lenses and generally more expensive than MFT. Fuji may arguably have "better" lenses but rhey are every bit as expensive and even more limited in selection

The impression I get is that there is more bang for the buck to be had with the micro 4/3 lineup.

More choices for sure. "Bang for the buck" is a subjective thing

If I was to get the Sony it would no doubt be the Sigma range I went for.

And why not? Other than a few being limited to central PDAF they have some nice affordable glass

I'm currently leaning to the Panny as that also has the best video performance and 4k photo mode will no doubt come in useful. My reservations are its image quality and lack of features such as image stabilization, weather proofing etc.

Based on what you have said I think you will be just fine

Is the image quality going to be almost as good as the others when using the electronic shutter and only viewing on a computer?

Yeah I wouldn't obsess about IQ and sensor size then. Web shares are not very demanding. You may want slightly higher performance for some of your subjects but that has to be balanced with budget and portability

My current plan is the camera with kit lens and supplement it with the Olympus M.Zuiko 40-150 now (£144) and then possibly the Olympus M.Zuiko 45 (£179) for portraits later.

Just to illustrate what I do not like about the criticism of Sony over lenses. In your example here Sony has the 55-210 and the 50 1.8 OSS. Or there is also the sigma 60. So the lenses you want are available on Sony. Probably more expensive. I do not know your market. Occasionally the 40-150 goes on sale for 99 here. Think the lowest I saw the sony was 199 new.

Would this be a reasonable use for this amount of cash or is it better splashing out a few hundred more for something like the GX8 or GX85 or even more for say a GH4, A6300 or E-M5 Mark II.

I do not know all the pricing your market. I do think you would be just fine. Your original list of cameras are all quite capable for a beginner. I agree with the earlier advice to wait to buy a prime until you are set on a focal length. The 45 is a nice lens and would be nice as a "portrait" lens but you may decide you would rather have something wider and fast for indoors. Just hold on until you identify what is important to you

Cheers,

Chris

Ps. In the US the omd em10 can be found very cheap. It is VERY competitve with the ii. No selfie screen though.....

Have fun in whatever you choose

 

[PSCL1]

To the OP: You list a number of excellent factors in choosing a system. However it is up to YOU to first rank order them with respect to importance. That will lead you to the best choice or two. There are no longer any poor formats or systems at m43 or larger size sensor.

 

[cpmbailey]

Thanks for that. Indeed, while I liked the image quality and skin tones of the Fuji most, the lenses look quite expensive and the video isn't great so I ruled that one out. I'm only going on what I read about m43 but seem to be able to get equivalent lenses to those olympus ones with the sony 55-210 and sigma 60 for the same money. I'm unsure which of those setups will be best. The one I find most appealing in the flesh is the E-M10 Mark II and it looks great for travelling with. What I'm a bit concerned about is with my lens requirements and budget, with the possible exception of a 50mm prime, I dont think there is a lot more I would want or could afford at this stage and for slightly less money than the body, kit lens and telephoto lens I could get something like the FZ1000.

 

[cpmbailey]

The ones I keep coming back to are the Sony A6000, Panasonic G7, Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II and Fuji X-T10 all of which are in the £400-500 range with kit lens.

That seems like a good short list.

Due to my level, I think it is best to look at a solid all rounder as I expect to start with landscapes, portraits, wildlife and night shots, with a view to doing friends' weddings, concerts etc.

Do you plan to use tripod and/or flash? There's a big difference as to whether you want/need stabilization.

my girlfriend still likes to take the odd selfie and it has to be better than a smartphone

I'll mention some wifi cameras do this pretty well with cell phone control. Actually impressively well. And some rather poorly. But I'd much rather frame a shot looking at the image on my phone than on the camera.

The impression I get is that there is more bang for the buck to be had with the micro 4/3 lineup.

Without a doubt. But it depends on the specific lenses you're buying.

I'm currently leaning to the Panny as that also has the best video performance and 4k photo mode will no doubt come in useful. My reservations are its image quality and lack of features such as image stabilization, weather proofing etc. Is the image quality going to be almost as good as the others when using the electronic shutter and only viewing on a computer?

...

Would this be a reasonable use for this amount of cash or is it better splashing out a few hundred more for something like the GX8 or GX85 or even more for say a GH4, A6300 or E-M5 Mark II.

Only you can say. But it depends on what prices you're seeing. At the prices on Amazon US right now, I wouldn't consider anything other than an OM-D EM10 right now, but that's because there's a huge discount right now. If UK is flipped, and there's a discount on the E-M5II or GX8, I'd say the opposite.

My current plan is the camera with kit lens and supplement it with the Olympus M.Zuiko 40-150 now (£144) and then possibly the Olympus M.Zuiko 45 (£179) for portraits later.

That seems like a reasonable set of lenses. The 45mm is a fantastic lens, but I'd wait a few months to buy it. Just to make sure it's the right focal length, which you'll discover as you use the kit lens and kit telephoto.

Thanks for the detailed response and also to golphov. I am less swayed by the articulating LCD for selfies now as this only exists on the G7 and I wasn't particularly happy with its build quality, size or viewfinder. Instead, I discovered the GX80/85 just to complicate things and which has possibly become my new frontrunner.

Pricewise, a very well established UK company has the G7 with kit lens for £449 whereas the E-M10 Mark II, A6000 and GX80/85 with kit lenses are all £499. However they are offering a bundle deal on the Oly with its 40-150 for £569 which seems like a great deal. I have also seen this on a bunch of online sites that all look like the same company for £475 (VentureDirect, Mobicity, Onedigitals) but am not sure whether I want to buy from there. The Sony 55-210 lens would have to be bought separately for £200 to bring that package to £699 whereas they are offering a GX80/85 bundle with a Panny 35-100 for £679.

The Olympus 45 can be had for £179 whereas the Sigma 60 is £119 so it does seem like a similar priced setup can be had for the Sony with this basic set. The E-M10 Mark II looks fantastic value, but I still seem to be leaning to the Panasonic for its feature set: touchscreen, 4K and just how compact its body and lenses are. It comes down to whether this or the Sony is worth £110-130 on the Olympus?

 

[Limburger]

Forget the skintone bla bla, just shoot RAW and adjust in post.

Again both are good systems buy what you desire.

 

[KCook]

The Sigma 60 is f/2.8 . . .

 

[Alphoid]

If it's a physical store, I'd go in, hold them, and play with them. The price differences are small enough you're better off with what works best for you, at least among the Olympus/Panasonic options.

As pointed out, the Sigma and Olympus are quite different lenses. One is f/2.8. The other is f/1.8. The Olympus will also be stabilized on an Olympus body, or one of the Panasonics with IBIS. The Sigma will not.

 

[cpmbailey]

Hi all,

I'm a beginner looking to get more into photography. I understand a fair amount of the basics having used several zoom cameras with manual settings but am now ready to get my first mirrorless camera. The ones I keep coming back to are the Sony A6000, Panasonic G7, Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark II and Fuji X-T10 all of which are in the £400-500 range with kit lens. Due to my level, I think it is best to look at a solid all rounder as I expect to start with landscapes, portraits, wildlife and night shots, with a view to doing friends' weddings, concerts etc. The Sony was my front runner for its image quality and praise at this price point but reasons why I may not get it are the lack of a fully articulating LCD (my girlfriend still likes to take the odd selfie and it has to be better than a smartphone), and a lot more importantly, the ecosystem of lenses. The impression I get is that there is more bang for the buck to be had with the micro 4/3 lineup. If I was to get the Sony it would no doubt be the Sigma range I went for. I'm currently leaning to the Panny as that also has the best video performance and 4k photo mode will no doubt come in useful. My reservations are its image quality and lack of features such as image stabilization, weather proofing etc. Is the image quality going to be almost as good as the others when using the electronic shutter and only viewing on a computer? My current plan is the camera with kit lens and supplement it with the Olympus M.Zuiko 40-150 now (£144) and then possibly the Olympus M.Zuiko 45 (£179) for portraits later. Would this be a reasonable use for this amount of cash or is it better splashing out a few hundred more for something like the GX8 or GX85 or even more for say a GH4, A6300 or E-M5 Mark II.

Cheers,

Chris

I want to thank everyone for their input. I thought that the GX80/85 was going to get my vote, but ultimately could not see past its poor viewfinder. When I moved my eyes just a tad with the G7, things started to blur and on the GX80/85 this only seemed to get worse. On top of this, the display suffers from pretty bad rainbow tearing and I couldn't get 100% sharpness from my dominant eye on the best diopter setting. As always, the importance of actually testing the camera can not be overstated! Horses for courses but I think dpreview's score for the viewfinder was quite generous. The GX8 solved this problem and would have been ideal, if not for being £400 more expensive for a similar setup to the Olympus OMD E-M10 Mark II twin lens kit that I bought for £569. This was my favourite aesthetically and ergonomically and seems like a solid performer. I'm hoping the decision to invest in the micro four thirds lineup while I learn was a better one than going for the better image and video quality of the Sony A6000.

 

[golfhov]

Enjoy and have fun. Read your manual. If you come against any problems you cannot solve try searching the MFT forums. If you do not see any help you should get a quick reply to a question.