TBBAF

[outerbeat]

I think there is some misunderstanding going on. If you don't disable half shutter focusing, there is no way that camera won't try to focus again when you fully depress the shutter button, since you pass through half shutter anyway.

Well, maybe there is misunderstanding, of course. I can't tell what is "disable HS focusing", but when shutter fully pressed and released it works through HS, but HS (in my case) almost never tries to refocus if there is "AF priority relese" set to "release". "Almost" because there is a some AF settings that might influence and HS occasionally catch the focus, maybe I press shutter little slower, I don't know.

The only way in which this could hapoen is that the camera simply can't focus on the second target for some reason, and having the shooting priority set on release, it will take the shot even if misfocused.

No, there is archive in my previous post with images, camera can focus on both distances in no time without any error, by my will so to say. And I can focus at any distance and have any closer/farther object in the frame and even AF-area can be pointed on that unfocused object (I've just tested this with whatever possible combo) - I still can take picture that focused on ANY other distance than current pointed by AF-area. It doesn't matter if I move the camera or move the object to AF-area. There might be rare lags, yes, but in general it works like I said. Sorry it doesn't work for you.

That's not tbbaf. Tbbaf is when the camera DISABLES af when an af target is acquired via 'af on' button. In other words, af is ONLY triggered by the button.

Well, when Otto tried to implement HS-off (which works) camera still refocus but via shutter itself, not HS, so obviously previous suggestion from some users about HS was wrong, it doesn't solve the TBBAF. Maybe there is another way to think about it and we don't need the HS-off to do the TBBAF and we simple need the trigger between AF and MF lense modes, with algorythm like this:

- point AF-area to object (whatever way - move camera, touch the screen or move the object)
- focus on that by pressing and releasing the button
- point AF-area to another object (same whatever way)
- take (push and release the shutter) the foto where object in second position of AF-area stays unfocused
- take another (any number) foto with unfocused AF-area

If this one is close to TBBAF - well it's how it works in my NX1. Please remember, that I not a photo guy, I know very little about that and might be very wrong here, and I didn't use TBBAF previously whatsoever in any camera, so here it is

I'm here just trying to help since I own NX1 and have a little minimal-enough knowledge about telnet and so on.

 

[tecnoworld]

Ok! I finally understand what you mean and replicated your test with success. It's very weird but it actually works.

So tbbaf MUST be turned off. Then you select focus point once (via af on or via hs) and then if you press shutter fully (and fast) you get the shot w/o refocus.

I'm not sure this can be a real tbbaf replacement but is very near.

 

[outerbeat]

Ok! I finally understand what you mean and replicated your test with success. It's very weird but it actually works.

So tbbaf MUST be turned off. Then you select focus point once (via af on or via hs) and then if you press shutter fully (and fast) you get the shot w/o refocus.

I'm not sure this can be a real tbbaf replacement but is very near.

Great! Yes, TBBAF is deleted from new versions of hack since the NX1 can do close to TBBAF function without HS-off

If you catch any lags with wrong focus (they happens occasionally) try to on/off Touch-AF, or move the AF-area, or refocus manually, I can't tell where is the problem but one of this actions should help. Maybe you find the other way to avoid refocus

 

[tecnoworld]

This is typical with samsung. A feature sort of exists, but is neither documented nor straightforward. And after months that ppl complained about the lack of this feature, samsung did not say anything about that and it was up to the user base to discover its use.

 

[geoffcbassett]

Is there a way to just have it switcch to MF when AF - ON is not pressed? That way it would stop focusing and would give the ability to manual focus, also with the entire camera set to MF it should not focus on button press any longer.

 

[otto k]

That's called AF LOCK (hold) and can be assigned to AEL button.

BTW, what happens on nx1 with AFL activated when you press the AF-ON?

 

[ARSPR]

It releases AFL, it's basically a switch. (It works in the same way as AEL).

In fact, NX1 has a pretty good AF-Lock function. The problem is they put a "AF-ON" label instead of "AFL" one on the button...

(If you think about it, AFL is in fact equivalent to BBAF... I cannot think of anything doable in one way but not in the other...)

 

[stf1x]

Ok! I finally understand what you mean and replicated your test with success. It's very weird but it actually works.

So tbbaf MUST be turned off. Then you select focus point once (via af on or via hs) and then if you press shutter fully (and fast) you get the shot w/o refocus.

I'm not sure this can be a real tbbaf replacement but is very near.

Great! Yes, TBBAF is deleted from new versions of hack since the NX1 can do close to TBBAF function without HS-off
If you catch any lags with wrong focus (they happens occasionally) try to on/off Touch-AF, or move the AF-area, or refocus manually, I can't tell where is the problem but one of this actions should help. Maybe you find the other way to avoid refocus

No, I don't think we can close this one.

What is described above only work with S-AF, but TBBAF has to work with C-AF, otherwise there is not much benefit since TBBAF is for shooting MOVING subjects.

If the NX1 is on C-AF, it re-focuses on HS and this is not what I expect.

What is described above is a version of the "focus and recompose technique".

Does someone know how a solution to disable the re-focuses on HS if NX1 is on C-AF ?

 

[otto k]

So, if the AFL was activated upon release of AF-ON it would be what you are looking for?

It's quite tricky for me to test without nx1 so I need someone to verify this on nx1:

1. Half shutter and full shutter do nothing while AFL is active (same as in nx500)

2. AF-ON deactivates AFL

3. AF-ON deactivates AFL even when AFL button is pressed

I think 1 works, but not sure about 2 and 3 on nx1.

 

[otto k]

Just to be clear I'm talking about AFL Hold

 

[stf1x]

It releases AFL, it's basically a switch. (It works in the same way as AEL).

no it does not release AFL ..... if you press AF-ON, that's the problem.

In fact, NX1 has a pretty good AF-Lock function. The problem is they put a "AF-ON" label instead of "AFL" one on the button...

(If you think about it, AFL is in fact equivalent to BBAF... I cannot think of anything doable in one way but not in the other...)

no, it's not ..... since it is a switch and if you want to re-focus on a moving subject you need to do 3 actions (..... with 2 buttons - press AEL button to remove the lock, press HS to refocus, press AEL to lock again ..... which means you miss the shot)

 

[stf1x]

too be clear I mean .. "press AEL button to remove the lock, press AF ON to re-focus, press AEL to lock again and press shutter .... which means you miss the shot)

 

[tecnoworld]

please read this carefully, before trying anything:

Loading…

www.dpreview.com

 

[stf1x]

So, if the AFL was activated upon release of AF-ON it would be what you are looking for?

It's quite tricky for me to test without nx1 so I need someone to verify this on nx1:

AEL button is set to "AFL Hold" via Menue/Keymapping/AEL=AFL Hold

1. Half shutter and full shutter do nothing while AFL is active (same as in nx500)

YES, with do nothing I mean "no - refocus" and we are in C-AF,

HS: nothing,

FS: capture (no re-focus)

2. AF-ON deactivates AFL

No, AF-ON does nothing in (C-AF), it does not deactivate AFL

AF ON is set "AF Start" via Menue/Keymapping/AF ON = "AF Start"

3. AF-ON deactivates AFL even when AFL button is pressed

Sorry, I don't understand this one, there is no AFL button, do you mean AEL button, do you mean pressing 2 buttons ?

I think 1 works, but not sure about 2 and 3 on nx1.

I still think that what you build (masking) last week and what has been released, i.e. removing the re-focus from HS (and FS) will do the job, (in theory) .

I still need to test this in C-AF mode by installing the mod and confirm back to you.

 

[otto k]

For some silly reason camera tries to refocus on fullpress of shutter thus ruining the shot.

I have a way to lock focus (I trigger AFL Hold when AF-ON is released) but it's slow (~0.4s to activate) and not suitable for action shooting => I need to find a better way.

I was hoping that pressing AF-ON would disengage the AFL Hold - this would solve our problems, but it does not

 

[stf1x]

OK, I tested TBBAF in 1.79m and it does not behave as expected.

Camera is in C-AF / TBBAF is checked in mod menue:

HS does not re-focus, that's what we want but .... FS (fullpress) does re-focus, that's not what is expected, what is expected is that FS (fullpress) also does not re-focus.

Can you not de-activate focusing from FS (fullpress) the same way you did from HS ?

 

[outerbeat]

OK, I tested TBBAF in 1.79m and it does not behave as expected.

Camera is in C-AF / TBBAF is checked in mod menue:

HS does not re-focus, that's what we want but .... FS (fullpress) does re-focus, that's not what is expected, what is expected is that FS (fullpress) also does not re-focus.

Can you not de-activate focusing from FS (fullpress) the same way you did from HS ?

Let me start again here

All my tests about TBBAF make me conclude that samsung maybe have it all from the box but there is no documentation on that or this functions released with latest FWs and does not described properly, IDK. So, if you need to shoot with CAF without refocus via HS or FS - it's easy to do without TBBAF in hack. I used v1.81m for test and it worked like you want and it doesn't have TBBAF now

Just go to FN button, it opens "function" menu, find there Key Mapping, push it, and in keymapping menu find "AF_ON". You need to set this to "AF Start + Lock" and you good to go.

Now, when you find your focus position, press AF_ON button and release it, than move the camera or place another object in AF-area, doesn't matter - now HS does nothing and FS do only shutter release and take a pic, without any refocus.

Good thing that I'm not a photographer and know nothing about this functions, so I didn't search them previously at all, and now it's like treasure hunt for me you know

Please note, that when you lock the AF position, you can't adjust shutter speed now via ring, you need to unlock AF to do that. AF_ON button both locks and unlocks AF

 

[tecnoworld]

It looks like you did not read all the posts above. I was where you are now several days ago. Then outerbeat pointed out that, BY DISABLING tbbaf and enabling focus priority RELEASE, then the camera behaves similarly to a TBBAF. With the "limit" that it will never refocus on full shutter press, not even when you would want to.

IMO the camera should behave this way only after AFon has been pressed and released. Otherwise it should always refocus on full shutter press.

This even works with CAF (so both SAF and CAF).

In few words, "release" disengages refocusing from full shutter press. If you want to have a shot in focus, you need either to use AFon button, or half shutter. Full shutter in this mode will never focus.

 

[outerbeat]

It looks like you did not read all the posts above. I was where you are now several days ago. Then outerbeat pointed out that, BY DISABLING tbbaf and enabling focus priority RELEASE, then the camera behaves similarly to a TBBAF. With the "limit" that it will never refocus on full shutter press, not even when you would want to.

IMO the camera should behave this way only after AFon has been pressed and released. Otherwise it should always refocus on full shutter press.

This even works with CAF (so both SAF and CAF).

In few words, "release" disengages refocusing from full shutter press. If you want to have a shot in focus, you need either to use AFon button, or half shutter. Full shutter in this mode will never focus.

Yes, with your link above and our findigs there is a some thoughts about samsung implementation of TBBAF

Samsung engineers are not stupid and in some sense - they know use-cases better than demanding shooters, but theirs view some kind from another side. I'm pretty confident that if you need to adjust camera settings between shots in TBBAF mode - you can always use SAF mode and that gives you ability to do shots without refocusing and with any adjustments on the fly. Second option - CAF which shooter can use for series of pictures with same, previously opted settings, so you don't need any adjusting between shoots, since it contradicts the core meaning of CAF and SAF differences

In some way it work perfectly for me since I distinguish SAF and CAF by "adjustable shooting between shots" vs "pre-opted settings without focus change". If you think about this in this terms I'd say it might work well for you also. And again, I don't have photographer background, so it's some sort of "clean state" for all of this, but sometimes it's good

Also, I've read the post by you link in some of your previous messages, where guy described this problems about focus buttons. It's good and useful, but I can see there that he (and more or less all of us) see in samsung less, than they actually predict and implement not by our standarts but through their design perspective. Can't say really about documentation though, I didn't read it thoroughly, but as for design - for me it's just another brick to be a pro-samsung actually. They manage to care without caring )))

I like this actually.

If you provide some use-cases that outrun SAF and CAF options with TBBAF - that'd be good for me to better understanding of this all. Thanks

 

[tecnoworld]

In both saf and caf, if focus priority is set to release, the camera won't (re)focus when shutter is fully depressed in a single movement. In order to refocus you have to press AFon, or half shutter.

The use case where this fails: I'm shooting a basketball match. I prefocus on the basket to take a fast shot of a slam dunk. I press afon in saf and wait. But in the meantime the action changes, and I need to take a rapid shot on another zone of the field, which I don't know exactly which will be. What I'd like at this time would be rapidly re-engaging focus at full shutter pression so that I can decide where to focus in a single action while taking the shot. But this can't be done and I need to press half shutter first to acquire focus, potentially loosing the right timing.