Is it true the A7RII is not for action and sport photography?

ZimmyVu

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As a hobby, I do a lot of aviation and motorsports photography on my A6000 with the 70-200mm F4 G. I want to make the move to full frame and I have been researching the A7RII. However many of the people I met in this field tells me to get a DSLR instead. Some of them are owners of A7RII themselves. They said even though the A7RII is an amazing camera, but I will get better results from a DSLR and the choices of super zoom lenses for this type of photography. I get good results with my A6000, so why not a A7RII?

Taken on a A6000 with 70-200mm F4 G
Taken on a A6000 with 70-200mm F4 G

Taken on a A6000 with 70-200mm F4 G
Taken on a A6000 with 70-200mm F4 G
 
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One of the problems is the lack of telephoto lenses. With the 70-200GM and 70-300 that is less of an issue, but you'll have better access to native telephotos with another brand. I can't think of anything above 300 for the Sony. For action though, you'd be better off buying a 7DM2 (not FF though) and a good telephoto zoom.
 
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It's true that there are caveats with the A7RII and sports, but these are the same as with the A6000 and sports. So if you got good results with your A6000 and want to move to FF, there you are.
 
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The lack of native tele lenses, slower write and read speed relative to the massive file sizes, small and immobilizing buffer, mid-range burst rate (5fps), small battery, prolonged EVF blackout, lack of weather sealing and less than stellar ability to acquire, track and target high-speed subjects do mean the A7RII is unlikely to be a pro's first (or second) choice for action. That certainly doesn't mean you can't take great action shots with it though!
 
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As a hobby, I do a lot of aviation and motorsports photography on my A6000 with the 70-200mm F4 G. I want to make the move to full frame and I have been researching the A7RII. However many of the people I met in this field tells me to get a DSLR instead. Some of them are owners of A7RII themselves. They said even though the A7RII is an amazing camera, but I will get better results from a DSLR and the choices of super zoom lenses for this type of photography. I get good results with my A6000, so why not a A7RII?
Aviation and motorsport is IMO no problem to my A7R II+ LA-EA3 + 70-400 SSM2. I got pretty much every frame in focus (even those coming fast toward me) that I did in an airshow last year; zero training for moving targets before, mostly backlit and only had 2 hours in the show. Not saying this is the best combo for airshows etc. but it definately is workable.

A few samples



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_DSC1606.jpg




_DSC1871.jpg
 
This depends a lot on your shooting style and what sports and action you are going to photograph. Many shoot high frame rate bursts, but surprisingly many experienced photographers shoot single frame or very short bursts. Tracking autofocus might be a limitation compared to the bes DSLR cameras, and so might the lack of bright long lenses. But then, how close can you get, and how much cropping are acceptable? Also, indoor, outdor daylight or night?

If you are used with an electronic viewfinder and have trained a bit on following moving subjects, or panning action, you should do pretty well. There is a difference in shooting technique with ovf versus evf, but much of this can pretty easily be overcome.

I am sure many could do pretty well with cameras like the A7rII and even the A7 and the newer A7II cameras for a lot sports and action shooting, but the older models can not compete with higher end DSLR cameras when it comes to tracking focus.

Probably coming full frame mirrorless cameras from Sony will do sports and action very well, hopefully at the same level as the best DSLR cameras. I think the A6300 shows a lot of where Sony is heading with their FF mirrorless cameras.
 
This photo was taken at the Snetterton Circuit using the Sony 70-400 + lea3 adaptor, ISO 1600, F9.5, shutter speed 1/2000th. the bike was probably doing 70-80 mph. If your panning technique is better than mine you could use a lower shutter speed and get more motion blur,. If you shoot in JPEG there is no problem with the buffer - RAW images block up at about 10 images, with a few seconds to clear the buffer and there is no blackout in the viewfinder. What you see in the viewfinder is the previous shot, so tracking takas a bit of practice, but this is no different from the NEX.



 

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Your question can be answered in three points:

1) Personal preference

Some people prefer to shoot with a DSLR, possibly because they grew up shooting film SLRs or even the early DSLRs. Some may also be under the impression that DSLRs are just plain better than mirrorless because that's what seems to be the dogma that the online photography community generals passes around as "fact". There are some photographers that like using the A6000, and now the A6300, because they are such small cameras with such high burst rates. Some however, prefer cameras with large grips over small size, and thus go for DSLRs.

2) System requirements

People that shoot sports and fast paced action tend to be very demanding on their system. It is generally well known that the large DSLR systems cater better to these needs. For example, those huge telephoto lenses that sports photographers often need are only available for DSLRs. Canon and Nikon both have their share of 300, 400, 500 and 600mm lenses. The longest Sony offers for Full Frame mirrorless is their recent 70-300 zoom. You could stick that on an A6300 and get an equivalent FoV of 450mm at the long end, but that still does not match up to a 600mm lens, which on an APS-C body produces a whopping 900mm (Nikon) or 960mm (Canon) equiv. FoV. DSLRs tend to be more responsive as well. With an OVF, you can see action as it happens, whereas with EVF, they generally have a tiny bit of lag and as such the image you see through the viewfinder is more of an "afterimage" than a true view of what is happening. As such sports and action photographers generally opt for OVFs which can only be had with DSLRs. There can also be the point that DSLRs have better weather sealing than mirrorless, but there doesn't seem to be any inherent limiting factor of mirrorless that impedes the implementation of weather sealing, but rather just at present mirrorless cameras do not have weather sealing as good as a DSLR (though that could very well change in the future). In addition, Sony is only just putting out "professional support", such as providing loaner equipment and fast tracked servicing of gear. This is something that "pro" DSLR manufacturers like CaNikon have offered for years, and so the customer base that buys CaNikon are likely to stick to CaNikon for the love of their great pro support. My last point for this section, which may be controversial, is battery life. With a mirrorless camera, even though the viewfinder, you're essentially using a form of Live View, and as such the sensor is always active and always chewing through battery. The battery life will suffer. Action photographers cannot risk having to change batteries in the middle of an event and miss a critical shot.

3) Public perception

A controversial point, but it is generally accepted that a large DSLR screams pro over a small mirrorless that "looks like a toy". It can be argued back and forth that mirrorless cameras are used by pros nowadays to create some stunning work, but at the end of the day, a pro needs to use gear that makes them look like a pro, and unfortunately the public perceives a large DSLR like a D5 or 1DX to be the epitome of "professional" (which for some literally is so). There are stories online of how photographers have been turned down work due to their use of "toy-like" mirrorless cameras, simply because the public does not understand that mirrorless can produce great images.

4) In defence of Sony

So this last point is to say that despite Sony A7r II generally getting a bad rep for action and sports photography, it can in fact be used for such purposes. However, as someone who does not shoot sports or action, I prefer to think of the A7r II as a high end piece of precision equipment meant for slow-and-mid-paced work rather than dealing with fast situations on the fly. Pro DSLRs are designed to take a beating, since action demands fast response, and that can mean getting careless with one's gear. The A7r II has a good AF system, but it still generally does not compared to DSLR. Instead, the other good features of the camera, such as its 42MP sensor and broad dynamic range make it great for landscape shooting and fine art. So to that end, I'd like to say that even though you can use an A7r II for sports, why would you? There are camera systems out there designed for the task in mind that does the task better (though better is subjective), and though the A7r II can be used for action with great amounts of patience and skill (being able to anticipate the action to a science), it is generally done better with a DSLR.

Hope this helps!

Cheers!
 
3) Public perception

but at the end of the day, a pro needs to use gear that makes them look like a pro, and unfortunately the public perceives a large DSLR like a D5 or 1DX to be the epitome of "professional" (which for some literally is so).
Nonsense!

But a great tip for wannabes though, and those selling photo gear! :-D
 
The slow write speed is overhyped, and it amazes me that reviewers did not dig further into this - I'll tell you why.

Most if not all of the processing delay after the shot is linked to the JPEG noise reduction. You simply need to turn off hi ISO NR and voilà - your A7RII is as fast as it gets. I did this with mine, with a fast sandisk card I can hit review or magnify right after the shot and I no longer get the "processing" warning.

If you shoot RAW and intend to do your own processing anyway then turning hi ISO NR off is a must.
 
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As a hobby, I do a lot of aviation and motorsports photography on my A6000 with the 70-200mm F4 G. I want to make the move to full frame and I have been researching the A7RII. However many of the people I met in this field tells me to get a DSLR instead.
I took this shot with my A7RII and Son 28-135 f/4 lens:


The A7RII is not optimal shooting long bursts in fast sports, where subjects are moving rapidly across the frame -- however it can do it.

The A6300 might be better in this specific scenario, has the crop factor advantage and can use all the same lenses. Or if you really want FF, the A7RII is good for many things but it seems likely the AF will be improved in the relatively near future since they have already pioneered these features on the A6300:

 
I get it - when I first moved to mirrorless I was always telling people I could still shoot sports and other high speed activities. However, the fact I could do it was probably a tribute to my photography and anticipatory skills rather than the abilities of the camera.

There's no question to my mind that a DSLR using PDAF (and in the case of a Nikon DSLR, 3D tracking via data from the exposure meter) gives more reliable results than my A7RII for moving objects and sport. That isn't to say it's impossible to do with an A7RII - in fact the A7RII is a pretty capable camera, but compared with the likes of a D810 or D750, it's easier to shoot action with the likes of the latter. This is based on a combination of autofocus, burst/FPS, bit depth, lens performance and availability.

Of course, include video in the equation as well as stills and the A7RII may well be better than the Nikons I've listed above. To give some perspective, when shooting heritage/steam trains passing through my local station I'll often use a D750 (for stills) paired with a A7RII (for 4k video).
As a hobby, I do a lot of aviation and motorsports photography on my A6000 with the 70-200mm F4 G. I want to make the move to full frame and I have been researching the A7RII. However many of the people I met in this field tells me to get a DSLR instead. Some of them are owners of A7RII themselves. They said even though the A7RII is an amazing camera, but I will get better results from a DSLR and the choices of super zoom lenses for this type of photography. I get good results with my A6000, so why not a A7RII?

Taken on a A6000 with 70-200mm F4 G
Taken on a A6000 with 70-200mm F4 G

Taken on a A6000 with 70-200mm F4 G
Taken on a A6000 with 70-200mm F4 G


--
 
Even I used Sigma 150-600 with adaptor (Cannon mount). it af-c lock in good light.

2486672acb184e38ae24b26a98e592c7.jpg
 
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tn1krr wrote:
Aviation and motorsport is IMO no problem to my A7R II+ LA-EA3 + 70-400 SSM2. I got pretty much every frame in focus (even those coming fast toward me) that I did in an airshow last year; zero training for moving targets before, mostly backlit and only had 2 hours in the show. Not saying this is the best combo for airshows etc. but it definately is workable.
+1

The A7RII can shoot action very well. Period.

There are other cameras which can handle action even better, but the question is whether you really need that extra capability. For some subjects or if you're doing production photography, that need could be real, but the airshow photos you posted are well within the A7RII's capabilities (same goes for adapted lenses in many cases).
 
3) Public perception

but at the end of the day, a pro needs to use gear that makes them look like a pro, and unfortunately the public perceives a large DSLR like a D5 or 1DX to be the epitome of "professional" (which for some literally is so).
Nonsense!

But a great tip for wannabes though, and those selling photo gear! :-D
+1 Personally, I don't care what they think about the camera, they've booked me on the strength of my port and my port was built using many cameras but the majority of my recent work (last 4 years) has all been on mirrorless. Besides, it can be a talking point while shooting. Educational even :-)
 
This site had an article about some pros who took the A7r II to an American football game, shooting alongside Canons and Nikons and basically decided it was unusable for their needs.
 
This site had an article about some pros who took the A7r II to an American football game, shooting alongside Canons and Nikons and basically decided it was unusable for their needs.
I think "Unusable" is too strong of a term overall. For pro sports people concentrating on getting that critical shot in a crowded field with long, fast lenses, the A&RII is not a good tool for all the reasons that have been mentioned.

But they produced some nice, sharp usable shots. Not the best tool for that specific job, but it's not unusable. As a multi-use camera for occasional action use, it works just fine.

For taking shots of airplanes as in the OP, it's more than fast enough and the high resolution is nice, although it probably doesn't give much of an advantage over the A6000 if you are focal length limited.
 
Thanks everyone for your input!

I've been shooting with the Nex-6 and then the A6000 for over three years and I'm used to the EVF. In fact, I've learned a lot due to the EVF, so it was natural for me to think about the A7II and A7RII now that I wanted to move to full frame. I've also come to the conclusion that I don't mind the extra size and weight of a bigger camera. Back in the days when I owned a Nex-3 and Nex-5, size was a everything. The idea of having a camera with the power of a DSLR, and you can put it in your pocket was fantastic. But as you can see, the A7XX series size have grown considerably. When I started looking into the A7RII for action and sport, my photo buddies said I would have to shell out $3400 for the body, $150 for the LA-EA3 adapter, and a super zoom lenses. For that amount, I should invest in a DSLR. With a little more, I can get a very good FF DSLR with a super zoom lenses specifically for action and sport photography. I'm just nervous moving from a EVF to a OVF camera.
 
And... those people actually ARE pro's and actuallyneed pro equipment and make full use of pro equipment.

However, I personally feel that 90% of people saying they 'need' action/sports equipment never come close to the actual needs of a pro sports photographer. Just like a huge portion of photographers those 90% of not being honest with themselves regarding what they need, vs what they can actually use if they actually 'learn' to use their camera's functions.

Example: The 3-5 threads a week from people wanting action/sports equipment to shoot photos of their kids running around in their yard that actually think that "pro" gear will magically eliminate any need to know anything about using a camera.
 
This site had an article about some pros who took the A7r II to an American football game, shooting alongside Canons and Nikons and basically decided it was unusable for their needs.

--
Dave
There are also articles of pros using the a7 series cameras for pro NFL football. The article you reference was written by a DSLR user not familiar with Sony at all.

Here's the deal; Buy the camera that fits your needs. If you are always shooting fast moving objects for a living, a DSLR is probably better today. If you want a full frame imaging device with the best sensor that can do just about anything you throw at it for stills and 4k video, the A7rii is it.
 
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