My Take on Guide Numbers , Flash Energy Etc.

johnblue3

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This I s a subject that comes up often here, but usually brings out a lot of divergent views. I thought I would add my two cents worth in this new thread.

Questions come up in a lot of different guises, thus:

- How are speed light guide numbers related to flash Energy

- How does my hot shoe flash energy compare to this or that strobe?

- How is flash exposure related to ambient exposure?

- Do I have enough power with my hot she flash to balance bright sunny ambient.

I have recently written a couple of posts where I have reported the precise energy of my Yongnuo YN600EX-RT flash energy to be 76 Watt seconds(Joules). This, of course, covers the Canon 600 EX-RT flash. So we know the energy of these most important hot shoe flashes, to start.

Now I want to write down the exposure comparisons between these flashes and bright ambient light.

We all know that the ambient exposure value is given by

EV = Log2[exposure time* Fnumber^2], or

Fnumber^2 = t*(2^EV)

On the other hand, for flash exposure, it's all in the guide number thus, with

Fnumber^2 =( g^2/R^2)*(P/P0), g is the guide number in ft, say, and R is the flash to object distance. Evidently se have equivalent exposure when we set these two expressions for aperture to be identical:

R^2 =[ (g^2)*(2^-EV)*(P/P0)]/t ; P/P0, ratio of flash energy to nominal single flash max energy

Quite obviously, we select the shutter time, t, to be the fastest flash sync time available for the given camera. In my case, t = 1/250 seconds. And on a bright sunny day, the ambient EV is 16. Using this and approximating 1/250 ~ 2^8, we easily get

R^2 =(g^2)*(P/P0)*2^-8, with g given as 137.8 feet for a 50mm lens FOV;ISO100, it follows that

R =8.61 feet*Sqrt(P/P0),

where we note that if multiple speed lights are used, (P/P) can equal N, the number of flashes used. So that if 4 speed lights are used in tandem, the flashes can be mounted up to 17 feet from the lit scene.

A couple of final points. First we note that, exposed in this way, the scene is over exposed by one stop, since either the ambient or flash were nominally sufficient. This is easily remedied by stopping down the aperture or lowering the ISO etc. We note, too, that on account of their RF wireless detachability, these lights can trivially be deployed in such bright balancing environments.

Regarding use with mods, I have a 5' reflective umbrella, that has a 2 stop throughput loss, even this can be managed using a 4 flash mount, 4 flashes just balance the 2 stops. Such umbrella works well at 8.6 feet.

All for now.
 
This I s a subject that comes up often here, but usually brings out a lot of divergent views. I thought I would add my two cents worth in this new thread.

Questions come up in a lot of different guises, thus:

- How are speed light guide numbers related to flash Energy

- How does my hot shoe flash energy compare to this or that strobe?

- How is flash exposure related to ambient exposure?

- Do I have enough power with my hot she flash to balance bright sunny ambient.

I have recently written a couple of posts where I have reported the precise energy of my Yongnuo YN600EX-RT flash energy to be 76 Watt seconds(Joules).
If I remember correctly you got this value by tearing down a flash and looking at the components. That value is the theoretical Watt Second value ignoring any losses due to heat losses in the electronics due to resistance and heat lost in the flash tube. The efficiency at which light is emitted from the flash will also depend on the percent of light reflected by the flash head reflector and transmitted by the Fresnel lens and front covering. In reality your flash will put out less light than the theoretical value based on the components.
This, of course, covers the Canon 600 EX-RT flash. So we know the energy of these most important hot shoe flashes, to start.
Without a tear down you can't say if the 600EX RT has the same values for the electronic components as the YN600EX RT. Your value of 76Ws may be close but have you actually torn down a Canon 600EX RT to see what electronic components are used? Do the circuits have the same efficiency?

Yes this is nit picking but when you make statements about the power of a flash based on the components without considering other things what you say can be a bit misleading.

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.
 
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Thank you very much, SailorBlue, for your reply. I do have proof of energy equivalence for the two brands. Most powerful is the fat that their guide numbers as a function of focal length are identical. This equivalence implies"

(g_canon/G_Yongnuo)^2 =P_Canon?P_Yongnuo =1

thus P_Canon = P_Yongnuo.

There are other aspects that imply this. Both flash types operate at 330 V and have linear Xenon flash tubes of the same size. The Phys of these tubes is such that tube geometry is key to light output characteristics.

The optics of the flashes are identical, consisting of a parabolic reflector, followed by a compound Fresnel lens(to set angle of throw)
 
The speedlite has different guide numbers, depending on what lens is being used, and what angle (tilt) the flash head is at, I think.

And studio strobes have different guide numbers depending on what kind of reflector is added to the head, and the design of the head. My Dynalite heads are designed to be used with or without additional reflectors, umbrellas, softboxes, etc., but my Courtney needs an accessory head to have any decent control over the light.

BAK
 
The speedlite has different guide numbers, depending on what lens is being used, and what angle (tilt) the flash head is at, I think.

And studio strobes have different guide numbers depending on what kind of reflector is added to the head, and the design of the head. My Dynalite heads are designed to be used with or without additional reflectors, umbrellas, softboxes, etc., but my Courtney needs an accessory head to have any decent control over the light.

BAK
Yes. In the comparison between Canon and Yongnuo, I have taken this into consideration. Indeed, the guide numbers for these two flashes are given as functions of lens focal length(angle of view). And they are identical on the entire range of focal length from 14mm to 200mm.

Now regarding strobes', these do vary. My Profoto Compact R has an accessory parabolic reflector, which can be tuned to throw a range of angles of view. At its fourth notch, it has an angle of view comparable to a 50mm lens.

Of course, non of this matters inside soft boxes etc. where the output beam pattern is controlled by the box geometry, itself.
 

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