FF-try-out: SMC Pentax-M 20mm F4

[Ari Aikomus]

Hi,

Now I have a chance to try Pentax lenses with FullFrame camera (Sony A7RII+PK adapter).

I start this with SMC Pentax-M 20mm F4 wide-agle prime, which is an interesting lens, at least for me.

I'm very excited about its small size relative to the performance. Actually the optical structure is pretty similar with Voigtländer 20mm F3.5 Color Skopar , or what you think?



I'm love with its size!



However, how it perform then?

Well, here are some my first snapshots with it (& FF Sony A7RII)...Wide open, f/4 aperture used.







cheers & Happy Easter, people ;-)

Ari

--
- Ari Aikomus -
'Why should I feel lonely ? is not our planet in the Milky way?'

 

[Flex M]

Thanks for the samples. The one with the bicycle has a very nice film-like quality to it!

Edges are a bit soft but not too bad. Bookeh is a bit busy, but it's a wide 20. The lens looks sharp and totally usable. I have the A20/2.8 myself and can't wait to try it out with FF!

 

[Ari Aikomus]

Thanks for the samples. The one with the bicycle has a very nice film-like quality to it!

Thank you. I agree - I like photos what this tiny wonder makes!

Edges are a bit soft but not too bad.

Yep, wide open corners are soft. But center area still sharp, not "wide open dreamy" at all.

Bookeh is a bit busy, but it's a wide 20. The lens looks sharp and totally usable.

This lens was a pleasant surprise for me. I did not expect too much for it with FF 42mp camera. But indeed, it makes usable photos. At f/5.6-f/8 corners are better, and at f/11 sharp corners.

I have the A20/2.8 myself and can't wait to try it out with FF!

Should be even better.

cheers,

Ari

 

[Ari Aikomus]

(in-camera jpgs, without corrections)

f/4:



f/8:



--
- Ari Aikomus -
'Why should I feel lonely ? is not our planet in the Milky way?'

 

[Tan68]

Have you checked how it performs with small light sources in the picture? I wonder how it does for making stars.

I have a K24/2.8 I am interested to try.

 

[Ari Aikomus]

Hi,

Have you checked how it performs with small light sources in the picture? I wonder how it does for making stars.

I have a K24/2.8 I am interested to try.

A good question! I definitely need to to test it out. Unfortunately, here it is cloudy right now. I need to think about the arrangements for that kind of test (small light sources )...

Ari

 

[Ari Aikomus]

Hi,

Have you checked how it performs with small light sources in the picture? I wonder how it does for making stars.

I have a K24/2.8 I am interested to try.

A good question! I definitely need to to test it out. Unfortunately, here it is cloudy right now. I need to think about the arrangements for that kind of test (small light sources )...

Ari

--
- Ari Aikomus -
'Why should I feel lonely ? is not our planet in the Milky way?'

I don't know if this help at all, but I suddenly remembered our balcony with decorative lights (leds)

....So I shot these photos out there just now ;-)

Maybe not perfectly in focus (and some exposure divergences , but take them as they are..

(Pentax M 20/4 & Sony A7RII )

F/11:



F/8:





f/5.6:





f/4:





Ari



--
- Ari Aikomus -
'Why should I feel lonely ? is not our planet in the Milky way?'

 

[miles green]

The M-20/4 looks good up to 3/4 of the way to the corner... then it abruptly gets all smeared and vignetted. It's almost like a "toy camera" filter was applied to the very edges of the image. There's a look to it, and it seems to work in many cases, but i can't say i'd be happy with it. My understanding is that the Voigtlander is about the same close to the edges, maybe just a bit better.

One thing we'll miss with any new generation lens is the size. We won't see them that small any more.

 

[Tan68]

Yes, I would have used either little Christmas lights or an LED flashlight/torch so these are good, thanks.

The stars aren't really as sharp as DA15 or DA21 but those do quite well at this star thing, I think. I understand the HD versions of the DA lenses have different characteristics and are not so starry.

My 77 doesn't make very good stars, I think, but I like the lens. When I try my 24/2.8, I will see how it does for stars but will consider other stuff as well before I decide how much I will use it or when.

 

[Ari Aikomus]

The M-20/4 looks good up to 3/4 of the way to the corner... then it abruptly gets all smeared and vignetted. It's almost like a "toy camera" filter was applied to the very edges of the image. There's a look to it, and it seems to work in many cases, but i can't say i'd be happy with it.

Happiness is a relative concept. You're right that it's far from perfect lens, but I'm really pleased with the size of it, and how well it can still perform on FF.

My understanding is that the Voigtlander is about the same close to the edges, maybe just a bit better.

Yep. Voigtländer 20mm F3.5 Color Skopar isn't much better - if at all. Actually I could tell that my in year 1977 published M20/4 can still do better than this, easily:

http://pliki.optyczne.pl/voi20/voi20_3.5_fot01.JPG

(Voigtländer 20mm F3.5 Color Skopar, f/3.5 , lenstip FF image sample)

One thing we'll miss with any new generation lens is the size. We won't see them that small any more.

Indeed, especially when we are talking about FF lenses.

regards,

Ari

 

[miles green]

The M-20/4 looks good up to 3/4 of the way to the corner... then it abruptly gets all smeared and vignetted. It's almost like a "toy camera" filter was applied to the very edges of the image. There's a look to it, and it seems to work in many cases, but i can't say i'd be happy with it.

Happiness is a relative concept. You're right that it's far from perfect lens, but I'm really pleased with the size of it, and how well it can still perform on FF.

I meant to write 100% happy. I'm quite impressed, if one found its way into my bag i'd be happy. I'd also be happy with the filter size.

My understanding is that the Voigtlander is about the same close to the edges, maybe just a bit better.

Yep. Voigtländer 20mm F3.5 Color Skopar isn't much better - if at all. Actually I could tell that my in year 1977 published M20/4 can still do better than this, easily:

http://pliki.optyczne.pl/voi20/voi20_3.5_fot01.JPG

Argh, yes, your M-20/4 is much much better. Both resolution and colors. I read a review of the Voightlander on DigiLloyds site (a few years ago when i had subscribed), probably using a 24 mpx camera, and the pictures looked like yours, not like the one on the lenstip site, that is horrible.

(Voigtländer 20mm F3.5 Color Skopar, f/3.5 , lenstip FF image sample)

One thing we'll miss with any new generation lens is the size. We won't see them that small any more.

Indeed, especially when we are talking about FF lenses.

I'm considering one of the Samyang 24mm lenses, one is pretty big, the other is huuuge!

regards,

Ari

 

[Yanko Kitanov]

Thanks for your review and the samples - a very nice lens!

Regarding the Optical schemes - they are different, especially the differences in the last elements and groups would contribute to a different character. The Voigt will probably have less airy and less sharp image, but with better SA and CA corrections, better contrast and colors and smoother bokeh. Both lenses are good but a bit different designs.

Do you find the manual focus assist on the Sony equally good for wide angle f/4 like this one and for longer fast lenses? I want a FF camera body just for a collection of FF manual focus lenses - the K-1 looks astonishing but I need fast and accurate manual focus and the A7R II seems to be the most convenient option currently without sacrificing IQ. Your input will help, thanks!

 

[Ari Aikomus]

Hi Yanko,

Thanks for your review and the samples - a very nice lens!

Thank you. Yes, I like it - not perfect lens, but has exceeded my expectations.

Regarding the Optical schemes - they are different, especially the differences in the last elements and groups would contribute to a different character. The Voigt will probably have less airy and less sharp image, but with better SA and CA corrections, better contrast and colors and smoother bokeh. Both lenses are good but a bit different designs.

Do you find the manual focus assist on the Sony equally good for wide angle f/4 like this one and for longer fast lenses?

Well, I don't about "equally good " but manual focusing with A7RII and with its focusing aids is really good experience. Helps a lot also with 20/4 lens.

I want a FF camera body just for a collection of FF manual focus lenses - the K-1 looks astonishing but I need fast and accurate manual focus and the A7R II seems to be the most convenient option currently without sacrificing IQ. Your input will help, thanks!

I think AR7II is pretty close to what you are looking for. ...I'm sure that Pentax K-1 will be great FF camera, but what comes to manual focusing - well, frankly, OVF just can't beat a decent EVF.

This is what I'm thinking at the moment about these differences.

...But one thing that you should consider if you are really going to buy A7RII: The battery life is truly poor (without battery grip).

regards,

Ari

 

[Yanko Kitanov]

Thanks! These were my thoughts too. I would try both cams but I guess the K-1 will wait until and if a more specific situation that requires a dslr arises. It's funny as I have waited for a ff K so long and now I don't find the need for one

Cheers!

 

[Ari Aikomus]

Hi

Thanks! These were my thoughts too. I would try both cams but I guess the K-1 will wait until and if a more specific situation that requires a dslr arises. It's funny as I have waited for a ff K so long and now I don't find the need for one

Cheers!

I can well understand. I feel a little bit the same way, even the forthcoming K-1 seems to be nearly perfect FF DSLR body!

I bought new K-S2 a few weeks ago (mainly for macro and tele works, swivel screen), and it really feels like the update for my old K-5. Faster AF, and overall feels faster in otherway too. I would have bought K-3II, but lack of swivel screen was dealbreaker for me.

I got used Sony A7RII+55/1.8 in a very affordable price, I couldn't resist ;-) Even if I sell it, I probably would get more money than what new K-1 will cost....So now I am in a situation that I just look forward to what will be K1 (reviews, user experiences). And I enjoy what I already have.

Happy shootings,



Ari

 

[Yanko Kitanov]

Reminds me of a bit similar situation - Hitachi released what will remain the best or one of the best in any possible aspect HDD when Samsung were mass-selling the EVO and PRO SSD series already....The HDD is worthy to be at a museum of engineering but it gets only a very specific demand and use as is the pinnacle of a gone age.

Of course I am not saying the situation with the K-1 is the same but in some ways it reminds me quite much of this story.

 

[Ari Aikomus]

Reminds me of a bit similar situation - Hitachi released what will remain the best or one of the best in any possible aspect HDD when Samsung were mass-selling the EVO and PRO SSD series already....The HDD is worthy to be at a museum of engineering but it gets only a very specific demand and use as is the pinnacle of a gone age.

Yep, I understand this logic. I live in Finland .... Sometimes we had the world's largest mobile phone manufacturer, Nokia, you know...All seemed good and there was a success and money. Then something happened pretty fast, actually. Nokia became too self-conscious, too clumsy strategies. They didn't believe, for example, for real smart phones and touch screens. Then...I do not know which one made more history: Apple with iPhone or Nokia with a record-breaking journey from the top to the bottom. ;-) Yep, so great failure, that make you laugh! Although it was quite a tragedy for the Finnish economy. Nokia was such a big factor here in a small Finland.

Of course I am not saying the situation with the K-1 is the same but in some ways it reminds me quite much of this story.

Yes, the situation is not so bad with Pentax. Fortunately two major players - Canon & Nikon still doing the old school DSLR system cameras, like Pentax. We are not alone at all. And we have smart and relatively wealthy parent company, Ricoh. I trust that the Ricoh know what to do if Pentax runs out of ideas and courage to do big moves.

Ari

 

[Yanko Kitanov]

Reminds me of a bit similar situation - Hitachi released what will remain the best or one of the best in any possible aspect HDD when Samsung were mass-selling the EVO and PRO SSD series already....The HDD is worthy to be at a museum of engineering but it gets only a very specific demand and use as is the pinnacle of a gone age.

Yep, I understand this logic. I live in Finland .... Sometimes we had the world's largest mobile phone manufacturer, Nokia, you know...All seemed good and there was a success and money. Then something happened pretty fast, actually. Nokia became too self-conscious, too clumsy strategies. They didn't believe, for example, for real smart phones and touch screens. Then...I do not know which one made more history: Apple with iPhone or Nokia with a record-breaking journey from the top to the bottom. ;-) Yep, so great failure, that make you laugh! Although it was quite a tragedy for the Finnish economy. Nokia was such a big factor here in a small Finland.

I remember that, from my point of view there were 3 critical issues: 1. the Symbian was not very intuitive and got worse while it sank crazy money for development(or miss-development) 2. there were too many lines, sub-lines and models which confused users and trend-followers 3. they got it too funky and wrong with the design.

Of course I am not saying the situation with the K-1 is the same but in some ways it reminds me quite much of this story.

Yes, the situation is not so bad with Pentax. Fortunately two major players - Canon & Nikon still doing the old school DSLR system cameras, like Pentax. We are not alone at all. And we have smart and relatively wealthy parent company, Ricoh. I trust that the Ricoh know what to do if Pentax runs out of ideas and courage to do big moves.

I will probably have a K-1 to replace my K-5 someday...or I will turn completely mirrorless since I hardly use a long lens besides a super-zoom when I travel and the 24-240 from Sony is said to be no match for dslr super-zooms. So many good options and it gets better - great times for photo gear and I am enjoying it

How does the A7R II do with a flash when using manual lenses? My wife's a6000 works great with the on-board flash(and physically allows me even to bounce it off the ceiling) with any fast MF lens even @ f/1.2. Does the A7R II meter the same way when you mount a flash on it? I have one unused Metz MB 58 AF-2 for Sony and I might get the adapter to put it on the A7R II as this is one hell of a flash - I use it in a Pentax version too and am a big fan of it.

Cheers!

Ari

 

[Ari Aikomus]

Yes, the situation is not so bad with Pentax. Fortunately two major players - Canon & Nikon still doing the old school DSLR system cameras, like Pentax. We are not alone at all. And we have smart and relatively wealthy parent company, Ricoh. I trust that the Ricoh know what to do if Pentax runs out of ideas and courage to do big moves.

I will probably have a K-1 to replace my K-5 someday...or I will turn completely mirrorless since I hardly use a long lens besides a super-zoom when I travel and the 24-240 from Sony is said to be no match for dslr super-zooms. So many good options and it gets better - great times for photo gear and I am enjoying it

How does the A7R II do with a flash when using manual lenses? My wife's a6000 works great with the on-board flash(and physically allows me even to bounce it off the ceiling) with any fast MF lens even @ f/1.2. Does the A7R II meter the same way when you mount a flash on it? I have one unused Metz MB 58 AF-2 for Sony and I might get the adapter to put it on the A7R II as this is one hell of a flash - I use it in a Pentax version too and am a big fan of it.

Cheers!

Yes! Flash system of A7RII works like a dream with manual lenses too (like this Pentax 20/4+manual PK adapter), even HSS works. I just tried it with Nissin i40 flash.

cheers.

Ari

Ari

 

[Yanko Kitanov]

Thanks!