Sony Nightshot "naked" scandal

Started Mar 21, 2016 | Discussions
Enginel Contributing Member • Posts: 752
Sony Nightshot "naked" scandal

Years ago, someone claimed that Sony camera in "nightshot mode" (which removed IR cut filter from optical path) can see through people clothes when enabled in daytime. I barely remember it well, but there was even a claim about someone from British royal family filmed "naked" and in result Sony restricted Nightshot mode and then removed it in newer cameras alltogether.

I'd like to know which f****s we have to thank for Sony omitting IR mode in their cameras. I wanted to buy Sony F828 for some time which one of latest cameras still having this ability.

I went to sewing shop with my IR-modded NEX and tried to find fabric which is transparent in IR and found none.

Note that under tungsten light, removing IR cut filter raises SNR about 2-3 TIMES! (if you don't care about colors, but photos under lowlight are often converted in BW anyway)

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GodSpeaks
GodSpeaks Forum Pro • Posts: 13,635
Scandal?
1

What scandal?

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D Cox Forum Pro • Posts: 21,820
Re: Sony Nightshot "naked" scandal

Enginel wrote:

Note that under tungsten light, removing IR cut filter raises SNR about 2-3 TIMES! (if you don't care about colors, but photos under lowlight are often converted in BW anyway)

This is the useful point in this post.

Removing the IR-cut filter does require a surgical operation on all recent cameras, except the Sigma DSLRs and (probably) their forthcoming SDQ cameras.

golfhov Veteran Member • Posts: 8,214
google couldn't figure this one out

Enginel wrote:

Years ago, someone claimed that Sony camera in "nightshot mode" (which removed IR cut filter from optical path) can see through people clothes when enabled in daytime. I barely remember it well, but there was even a claim about someone from British royal family filmed "naked" and in result Sony restricted Nightshot mode and then removed it in newer cameras alltogether.

google found the year was 98. I do vaguely remember this. I also remember it being a bit of an exaggeration

I'd like to know which f****s we have to thank for Sony omitting IR mode in their cameras. I wanted to buy Sony F828 for some time which one of latest cameras still having this ability.

I went to sewing shop with my IR-modded NEX and tried to find fabric which is transparent in IR and found none.

why...........

Note that under tungsten light, removing IR cut filter raises SNR about 2-3 TIMES! (if you don't care about colors, but photos under lowlight are often converted in BW anyway)

This is off memory but it was only a very specific combination of lighting, skin color and fabric that would give you a "xray vision". Even then I think calling it xray vision was a bit of a stretch.

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dmanthree Veteran Member • Posts: 7,339
Re: Sony Nightshot "naked" scandal
1

Enginel wrote:

Years ago, someone claimed that Sony camera in "nightshot mode" (which removed IR cut filter from optical path) can see through people clothes when enabled in daytime. I barely remember it well, but there was even a claim about someone from British royal family filmed "naked" and in result Sony restricted Nightshot mode and then removed it in newer cameras alltogether.

I'd like to know which f****s we have to thank for Sony omitting IR mode in their cameras. I wanted to buy Sony F828 for some time which one of latest cameras still having this ability.

Probably the same ones who post videos and pics of celebrities against their wishes. Like Gawker, etc.

I went to sewing shop with my IR-modded NEX and tried to find fabric which is transparent in IR and found none.

Note that under tungsten light, removing IR cut filter raises SNR about 2-3 TIMES! (if you don't care about colors, but photos under lowlight are often converted in BW anyway)

If IR is important, I have a modified Panasonic GX1 I can sell you, with a 14-45 lens and add-on EVF. Lifepixel fitted it with a nice "deep B&W" filter so it takes very nice IR shots.

I did have a Sony 828 for a while, but it was crippled while in IR mode. Shutter speeds were very limited and you needed a pretty heavy cut filter to make it work. A kludge at best. Fuji also made a dedicated IR camera, superzoom style. Can't recall the model number. Anyway, I'd love to see an updated version of the 828 with the IR feature. It did work, and if Sony fixed a couple of flaws with that cam it would have been killer.

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 5,400
Voyeuristic?
4

I hope you won't ever be walking toward my wife, daughter or granddaughter with your spiffy see-through camera leveled at their clothing.

Dr JLW Senior Member • Posts: 1,081
Re: Sony Nightshot "naked" scandal

There are some third parties that Ir convert digital cameras but several Sony models had switch removable Ir blocking filters.  The 828 was one but so also were the 505 707 and 717.  I still have my 717 and it was almost usable.  removing the IR filter "Crippled the camera by limiting its exposure control but it was usable with a visible blocking filter and I took some nice IR scenes with it.

Yuo can find these by googling IR pass filters for digital cameras

The signature feature of these Ir shots is that green plants look snow covered.  This mode is a lot less affected by fog and haze.

Some of the Sony camcorders also had this feature.  They are common in second hand shops.  Just look for a Sony camcorder with a "Night shot mode"

The See through clothing capability never was evident when I had my 717 operating in that mode but I was doing anything more than a quick try when set up for other things.

Chikubi
Chikubi Senior Member • Posts: 1,753
Re: Voyeuristic?
9

Lightpath48 wrote:

I hope you won't ever be walking toward my wife, daughter or granddaughter with your spiffy see-through camera leveled at their clothing.

Jeez, relax a bit. It's just a discussion and IR can be useful for all kinds of photography.

At your age, haven't you figured out yet that most women aren't impressed when men use them as an excuse to puff out their chest?

MisterBG Veteran Member • Posts: 6,436
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No text.

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Chikubi
Chikubi Senior Member • Posts: 1,753
Re: Sony Nightshot "naked" scandal
1

Dr JLW wrote:

Some of the Sony camcorders also had this feature. They are common in second hand shops. Just look for a Sony camcorder with a "Night shot mode"

I still have one of these. Forgot the model#, but it's a Sony Digital8 camcorder from around '98-'99. Works great, though I don't recall ever seeing anyone's naughty bits when using the IR mode. Great for watching critters at night though. That's why I keep it.

Dr JLW Senior Member • Posts: 1,081
Re: Sony Nightshot "naked" scandal
2

These nighshot camcorders are also handy for certain kinds of laser lab work.

We were working to align beams of laser light and the company used to by night vision scopes at about $1000 per copy.  I had them get me a SOny Camcorder at the local Best Buy for about $150 and it did all the things I needed and a lot better than the night vision scope.

OP Enginel Contributing Member • Posts: 752
Re: Voyeuristic?
1

See-through cameras don't exist. Like Santa.

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OP Enginel Contributing Member • Posts: 752
Re: Sony Nightshot "naked" scandal

Nah, I have IR capable camera already, thank you. The problem is, switching between visual light, IR and full has to be done by manually changing filters in front of lens, and I don't have funds to buy a second body (A6300, of course, lol). And IR cut filter BEFORE lens doesn't work with wideangles as good as it does after lens.

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OP Enginel Contributing Member • Posts: 752
Re: google couldn't figure this one out

I'd like to know which f****s we have to thank for Sony omitting IR mode in their cameras. I wanted to buy Sony F828 for some time which one of latest cameras still having this ability.

I went to sewing shop with my IR-modded NEX and tried to find fabric which is transparent in IR and found none.

why...........

Because I wanted to know if effect exists.

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OP Enginel Contributing Member • Posts: 752
Re: Sony Nightshot "naked" scandal

D Cox wrote:

Enginel wrote:

Note that under tungsten light, removing IR cut filter raises SNR about 2-3 TIMES! (if you don't care about colors, but photos under lowlight are often converted in BW anyway)

This is the useful point in this post.

Except tungsten lamps are phased out everywhere...

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mostlyboringphotog Senior Member • Posts: 8,198
Re: Voyeuristic?
5

Lightpath48 wrote:

I hope you won't ever be walking toward my wife, daughter or granddaughter with your spiffy see-through camera leveled at their clothing.

Goodness - you wonder what TSA can see with millimeter scanner of your wife, daughter or granddaughter?

BTW, why are you not concerned of your son or grandson?

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dmanthree Veteran Member • Posts: 7,339
Re: Voyeuristic?
1

Enginel wrote:

See-through cameras don't exist. Like Santa.

Uh, yes, they do. And there's tons of examples of IR cameras seeing through swimsuits on line.

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 9,509
Re: Sony Nightshot "naked" scandal

Enginel wrote:

Nah, I have IR capable camera already, thank you. The problem is, switching between visual light, IR and full has to be done by manually changing filters in front of lens, and I don't have funds to buy a second body (A6300, of course, lol). And IR cut filter BEFORE lens doesn't work with wideangles as good as it does after lens.

Well you could try it with an IN lens filter though most of those are long lenses.

Alpha Jack Senior Member • Posts: 1,539
Re: Sony Nightshot "naked" scandal

I had an F717. I remember the claims, but I never noticed it with my camera. FWIW, it was kind of fun to play around with, but I never got anything 'usable' from the feature. Kin to it though was a great, very usable feature called night framing. That and the laser focus assist were very nice to have in low light.

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Dr JLW Senior Member • Posts: 1,081
Re: Sony Nightshot "naked" scandal

The trick was to put an IR pass visible block filter in front of the 717.  I bought oe and it wored very well.  well enough to use  shot of my home as a holiday card that year.

The nightshot mode was a differnt matter.  These cameras used an ir emitter to support  short range ir photography even in total darkness.

The infrared range for thsi mode is very short and not the thermal emission range that enables thermal imagers to operate on what is radiated by the subjects.

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