Olympus OM-D EM 5 Mark II - Under exposed images

[joe1981]

I'm glad to join this forum. I just recently bought a OM-D EM 5 Mark II with the 12-40mm f2.8 Pro lens.

I have been using NEX-6 and with that I'm used to the EVF and the WYSIWYG in all the modes (P / A / S / M) modes. I compose the picture using the EVF and my final picture that I get was exactly what I saw in my EVF and the Live View.

Now, with my OM-D, here is what I did:

1. I set the camera in S mode

2. In this mode, I could control the ISO and the Shutter (I'm not using the Auto ISO)

3. The front dial on my OMD is used to control the exposure compensation, while the back dial controls the shutter (the dials are on the right hand side of the camera).

4. With a shutter speed of 1/320, f2.8 and an ISO of 100 ISO Low), the image is severely under exposed. In theory, the EVF and the Live View should reflect this under exposed image as-is, but it does not. The EVF and Live View show the image bright enough to make me believe that I would get this bright image as is.

5. When I look at the images in the play back mode in my camera, the image is pitch dark! Surprise!

Why does the EVF and Live View does not show the true exposure under the above mentioned settings? For your information, I have turned off the Live View boost, but even that did not help!

Any clues?

 

[PhotoPMW]

Check the setting of Live View Boost. According to my E-M1 manual, "If [On] is selected, priority will be given to making images clearly visible; the effects exposure compensation and other settings will not be visible in the monitor." Hope that helps.

 

[haslo]

I just tested this - never noticed this before. Maybe it was different with earlier firmware versions? Or I just never shot with such short shutter times in S when it was dark ;-)

It looks like in S and A modes, the camera shows you the exposure it's trying to get, not the one it actually will get - with LV Boost off that is, LV Boost on will just show an evenly lit image either way and ignore exposure compensation, too.

How you can tell that it won't actually get this exposure: The aperture in S, or shutter speed in A, are blinking.

The blinking number is the camera's way of saying "I'd love to go lower, or higher, but can't because of some reason". But I'm surprised that the camera doesn't go on to show the effect of that limitation in the EVF, for S and A modes, just like you.

In M, with LV Boost off, the displayed exposure goes from -3EV to +3EV, even if the actual exposure will be higher or lower. So if you try your settings in M, you'll see the darkness.

Generally, when I try to get the shortest reasonable exposure time while shooting indoors, for family events and the likes, I'll just use A with the widest possible aperture, set ISO to auto with the maximum set to my liking (for me, that's 3200 with the current sensor generation), and then trust the camera to select matching ISO and shutter speeds. When I notice blurred shots due to low light, I either try to shoot less moving targets, or manually set the ISO higher.

--
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/glodjib/
Ello: https://ello.co/haslo

 

[joeletx]

Turn "Live View Boost" to off. This allows you to see the actual picture turned out to be, before pressing the shutter button.

 

[joe1981]

For all that are suggesting me to turn Off the Live View boost, please read my post carefully as I have mentioned that I have indeed turned Off the Live View boost and that did not bring any effect on the EVF and Live View!

 

[Paulmorgan]

I'm glad to join this forum. I just recently bought a OM-D EM 5 Mark II with the 12-40mm f2.8 Pro lens.

I have been using NEX-6 and with that I'm used to the EVF and the WYSIWYG in all the modes (P / A / S / M) modes. I compose the picture using the EVF and my final picture that I get was exactly what I saw in my EVF and the Live View.

Now, with my OM-D, here is what I did:

1. I set the camera in S mode

2. In this mode, I could control the ISO and the Shutter (I'm not using the Auto ISO)

3. The front dial on my OMD is used to control the exposure compensation, while the back dial controls the shutter (the dials are on the right hand side of the camera).

4. With a shutter speed of 1/320, f2.8 and an ISO of 100 ISO Low), the image is severely under exposed. In theory, the EVF and the Live View should reflect this under exposed image as-is, but it does not. The EVF and Live View show the image bright enough to make me believe that I would get this bright image as is.

5. When I look at the images in the play back mode in my camera, the image is pitch dark! Surprise!

Why does the EVF and Live View does not show the true exposure under the above mentioned settings? For your information, I have turned off the Live View boost, but even that did not help!

Any clues?

Camera settings.

The evf and rear screen will never show you the true exposure but you can get it pretty close by altering the brightness level of the EVF and brightness level of rear screen, what does the histogram show (even though this is just a guide)

Can you post some examples.

 

[joe1981]

The above image was captured at f2.8, 1/320 and ISO Low (100). The EVF and Live View showed a brighter image, but then when I looked at the preview, this is all what I got. Of course this is very extreme, but there are a lot of photos that were overly under exposed but the EVF and Live View did not reveal this while I was composing the shot.

I guess, while I took this shot, the aperture indicator was blinking. So I'd guess that this is an indication to me that the final picture is going to be either under or over exposed!

 

[Guy Parsons]

Why does the EVF and Live View does not show the true exposure under the above mentioned settings? For your information, I have turned off the Live View boost, but even that did not help!

Any clues?

Just tried the same setup on my E-P5. In S mode, low ISO.

The LCD live view display shows me the scene with no variations as I twiddle the controls.

The thing to note is the aperture indication, when the exposure is going to be correct the aperture does not blink. When you run off the end of the exposure ability where the camera tries to go either past f/22 or past f/2.8 (or whatever your max aperture is) then the aperture indication blinks to warn you that it needs to go further. The answer is to alter the shutter speed to stop it blinking or change the ISO to bring the exposure into line and stop the aperture blinking.

It's the way they all work and has nothing to do with live view boost.

Use Manual mode if you really want to control the exposure by looking at the LCD and judging the look. When in Manual mode the display does change in brightness as you alter the settings, but only as far as plus/minus 3 EV as after that the exposure does not go brighter or darker even if you are winding the settings to say plus/minus 6 EV.

The idea is to let you see something to frame with and does not let the LCD go completely black or white.

The best way to use digital cameras is to expose to the right and just avoid obvious highlight loss (use the blinkies, the highlight and shadow feature) then adjust for the desired brightness in post process. That way you get a better set of data out of the sensor to play with.

Regards....... Guy

 

[Ronmann]

There may be another setting causing this - look for the S-OVF setting and make sure it is turned OFF. This setting in the the Gear/J (Built-in EVF menu) - this is the simulated Optical viewfinder.

Even with both S-OVF and the Live View Boost turned off, the EVF will show a darkened image (but not black) if you are severely underexposing and a very bright (but not white) screen when severely overexposing. As you change your exposure settings to correct, the screen will stay at the most extreme setting until you get within 3 stops of light of the correct exposure, then it will begin to change with each click.

 

[drj3]

The above image was captured at f2.8, 1/320 and ISO Low (100). The EVF and Live View showed a brighter image, but then when I looked at the preview, this is all what I got. Of course this is very extreme, but there are a lot of photos that were overly under exposed but the EVF and Live View did not reveal this while I was composing the shot.

I guess, while I took this shot, the aperture indicator was blinking. So I'd guess that this is an indication to me that the final picture is going to be either under or over exposed!

If it is like the E-M1 it shows the image as it will be exposed unless the exposure is more than +-3 EV over/under exposure. It then switches to make the image more visible in the EVF.

--
drj3

 

[joe1981]

There may be another setting causing this - look for the S-OVF setting and make sure it is turned OFF. This setting in the the Gear/J (Built-in EVF menu) - this is the simulated Optical viewfinder.

Even with both S-OVF and the Live View Boost turned off, the EVF will show a darkened image (but not black) if you are severely underexposing and a very bright (but not white) screen when severely overexposing. As you change your exposure settings to correct, the screen will stay at the most extreme setting until you get within 3 stops of light of the correct exposure, then it will begin to change with each click.

I have both the S-OVF and the Live View Boost turned Off, but this seems to have no effect on the Live View or on the EVF. The images as I see through the EVF and the Live View are the the final images that I would be getting when the composition is either under or over exposed!

 

[haslo]

Summing things up, with both S-OVF and LV Boost off, it looks like our cameras behave like this:

• In M mode,
  • exposure time, aperture, and ISO (automatic or manual) are used to determine the outcome of the exposure, then...
  • ...if the result is within -3EV to +3EV, the Live View displays the expected image
  • ...if the result is outside -3EV to +3EV, the Live View displays the image at -3EV or +3EV
• In A mode,
  • only exposure compensation is used to determine the outcome of the exposure for the Live View
  • if the exposure time cannot be matched to that outcome, then the exposure time starts blinking, but the EVF is not adjusted to show the under- or over-exposure
  • ...but this doesn't actually ever happen, because exposure time will just go up and up until it reaches seconds and blurs everything, but still produces a correctly lit image
• In S mode,
  • only exposure compensation is used to determine the outcome of the exposure for the Live View
  • if the aperture cannot be matched to that outcome, then the aperture starts blinking, but the EVF is not adjusted to show the under- or over-exposure

Personally, I never noticed this before this thread here. The only place where this can really hurt is in relatively dark conditions, with S mode, a slow lens, and short exposure times - for all other situations and combinations, A and S modes rarely ever reach the limit where the LV gets so much out of sync with the actual image.

Edit: Ooooh, I remember. With the E-M5, you wouldn't notice when images got blown out with minimum ISO 200, and minimum exposure time 1/4000s, with fast lenses, A mode wide open, in bright sunlight. That is the other extreme not handled by the LV then.

This is good to know, I think

 

[Guy Parsons]

Excellent summary. From that I learn......

Lesson 1: Don't rely on the LCD/Viewfinder to judge the look of the result.

Lesson 2: It all seems designed to aid framing.

Lesson 3: Use the Force. Expose to the right using Blinkies or Histogram. Fix the look in post process.

Regards..... Guy (Luke) Parsons

 

[Guy Parsons]

Just as I posted that reply my brain actually kicked in and started working, 6:30am here.

So......

Lesson 2: It all seems designed to aid framing.

That should read ......

Lesson 2: It all seems designed to aid framing and help AF work properly.

Just think about it, the image you see is what the sensor is "seeing" so primarily the result has to be kept in a fairly narrow range so there's actually some contrast there for the AF to function. And of course also to aid the framing.

Regards.... Guy

 

[shinndigg]

Interestingly, i am able to replicate exactly what the OP has done, using my OM50 1.8. Shooting wroth the aperture wide open, in shutter priority, ISO set to low or 200. There is absolutely no clear indication, other than the -_- symbol next to shutter speed indicator blinking, that the image will be underexposed.

To the OP: you either have to shoot in M mode as indicated, to let you know to change shutter speed or set ISO to auto, with the top range being adequately high. Even then, under exposure is a possibility.

 

[dulynoted]

Excellent summary. From that I learn......

Lesson 1: Don't rely on the LCD/Viewfinder to judge the look of the result.

Lesson 2: It all seems designed to aid framing.

Lesson 3: Use the Force. Expose to the right using Blinkies or Histogram. Fix the look in post process.

Regards..... Guy (Luke) Parsons

In what mode do you use the blinkies? I tried them briefly but found them horribly distracting. With fast changing light in the city in manual mode with focus peaking on It was nearly impossible to know what I was looking at in the viewfinder.

so do you enable them in manual mode or just the priority modes where they are less intrusive?

 

[Guy Parsons]

In what mode do you use the blinkies?

Aperture priority is my usual way. The camera metering is good and I only occasionally need to twiddle exposure compensation to sort out any blinkie issues.

I tried them briefly but found them horribly distracting. With fast changing light in the city in manual mode with focus peaking on It was nearly impossible to know what I was looking at in the viewfinder.

Manual mode is more pain than it's worth in daylight use, why have a camera with excellent metering then fail to use it? I reserve manual mode for flash use only to make sure the ambient is the way I want it compared to the flash effect.

so do you enable them in manual mode or just the priority modes where they are less intrusive?

Blinkies are enabled all the time just to let me know which highlights may be blown and what I can sacrifice if I need to. Usually the resulting review jpeg result has less blinkies and the raw file usually has no channel overload at all.

Regards..... Guy

 

[dulynoted]

In what mode do you use the blinkies?

Aperture priority is my usual way. The camera metering is good and I only occasionally need to twiddle exposure compensation to sort out any blinkie issues.

I figured you miht use an automated mode.

I tried them briefly but found them horribly distracting. With fast changing light in the city in manual mode with focus peaking on It was nearly impossible to know what I was looking at in the viewfinder.

Manual mode is more pain than it's worth in daylight use, why have a camera with excellent metering then fail to use it? I reserve manual mode for flash use only to make sure the ambient is the way I want it compared to the flash effect.

I've gotten very used to the light conditions around where I live. When I walk outside I know f2.8 and 1/1000 is good on a slightly overcast day here and f5.6 1/1000 works in bright sunlight. Etc. I have the default shutter speed at 1/1000 so as soon as I step outside I just set the aperture. Open up 2 stops for a backlit photo or 1 stop for open shade etc. I just really like the process of manual operation. I only use aprture priority if the liht is changing so fast I cant keep up or im yanking the camera out for an unnexpected shot. Neither happens much.

so do you enable them in manual mode or just the priority modes where they are less intrusive?

Blinkies are enabled all the time just to let me know which highlights may be blown and what I can sacrifice if I need to. Usually the resulting review jpeg result has less blinkies and the raw file usually has no channel overload at all.

Regards..... Guy

Thanks. I might have to enable them in my aperture prioriy preset and give them another shot.