Not a fan boy.

[speedync]

I just like Panasonic products. In my own personal experience, I've never had one fail, & some of the products I've owned for 30 years. Had a few TV's that have been updated before ever breaking, an older Technics/Panasonic stereo that my kids still have, a National /Panasonic portable stereo that does 8 hours aday 5-6 days a week in the harshest environment, and is still going 30 years later. Bread makers, 6 head VCR, portable cd player, the list goes on. They simply build a quality product.
My LX7 is a lovely bit of gear. I find the menu's quite good to use, even after shooting Canon DSLRs for many years. Far far more intuitive than a couple of Fuji camera's I've owned. So, I've picked up a GX8. Online. Still waiting for delivery. Got my eye on the Panny 14, 20, 7-14 & I'm not sure which tele. Body comes with the new 25 1.7. I expect it will last well beyond the time I get sick of it , or feel the need to upgrade, if my previous experiences are anything to go by

 

[tokumeino]

One major difference between the GX and the OM-D line is the position of the EVF. I love my EM5II but I have to admit that -as a left eyed people - the centered EVF make the Fn1+lever quite uneasy to operate. I had to reassign the frequently used AEL to another Fn button.

 

[robonrome]

Charles - even though it's distressing to hear that these things happen, you have to keep in mind that relatively few people will ever experience those problems. Most people never have an issue with their camera. (In all my years, I've only ever had to send one off for repair.)

It sounds like you're ready to try the EM5-ii, so the only question you should have is how to get the best deal on it

this says it all. the internet will always make it appear that problems are more endemic (far more) than is in reality. people post when they have problems seeking help... almost no-one posts, got my camera works as advertised, nothing to see here, and those that do attract few response so you wont see them as much. as above I've had 30 years on various camera's and virtually every m43 camera going from both pany and oly and I've never had a problem that wasn't my own fault...(I fell on my GH4 on a beach and only later realised I'd knocked off the eyecup.). certainly not the litany of issues that you WILL find if you go looking on the internet.

 

[jim stirling]

Charles - even though it's distressing to hear that these things happen, you have to keep in mind that relatively few people will ever experience those problems. Most people never have an issue with their camera. (In all my years, I've only ever had to send one off for repair.)

It sounds like you're ready to try the EM5-ii, so the only question you should have is how to get the best deal on it

this says it all. the internet will always make it appear that problems are more endemic (far more) than is in reality. people post when they have problems seeking help... almost no-one posts, got my camera works as advertised, nothing to see here, and those that do attract few response so you wont see them as much. as above I've had 30 years on various camera's and virtually every m43 camera going from both pany and oly and I've never had a problem that wasn't my own fault...(I fell on my GH4 on a beach and only later realised I'd knocked off the eyecup.). certainly not the litany of issues that you WILL find if you go looking on the internet.

--
rob
http://hardlightimages.zenfolio.co

I agree it is just the law of averages, you get hundreds or even thousands of posters in one forum using one format, there will invariably be issues. Especially as despite our { some may say unnatural } fondness for photo taking gadgets in the end they are just mass produced goods with all that implies.

 

[DaveLemi]

Charles, I gotta be honest. A few years ago when I was making the switch to mirrorless my first experience with the EM5 wasn't a good one. Since I'm relatively young (mid 40s) I usually find menus on any electronic fairly intuitive. I say usually because the OMD left a bad taste in my mouth as I had no idea how to navigate the menus and set anything at all. I put my hands on a Fuji and bought the Olympus immediately. Once I had the OMD EM5 home I sat down and worked through the menus, set everything the way I liked it and found the SCP.

I hear all the complaints over and over again, but the reality is once things are set up properly you're not in the menus very often.

My advice- if you get an Olympus, just have patience...it will pay off

 

[eliehbk]

Own the Olympus em5 markii and never had a problem with it and I don't pamper it, just dump it in my backpack.

 

[Steve_]

Olympus' is just different from Panasonic's. Panasonic does nearly everything equally well. Generally not spectacularly, but hardly ever ineptly. Olympus is the hare to that tortoise. The things they do well, like exposure metering, EVFs and stabilization, pole vault the line between good and great. But just the same, in areas where weakness exists it is incredibly pervasive.

Control logic is a good example of an Oly weakness. Although Olympus can make a dandy camera, it often strikes me that they've never used one, at least not a digital one. Some of the default behaviors and control paradigms present in Olys defy logic, understanding - and even use. Panasonic is better here, with Pentax being great.

The place where this truly annoys me is ISO adjustment. Not having used a camera since the film age, it has not dawned on Oly engineers that ISO is just as principle a control input as is shutter speed or aperture. You have to change film to change ISO, don't you know.

On two-dial (not 2+2) Olys, you cannot set ISO to either dial. One must be exposure compensation, and the other is used for the aperture or shutter input, depending on the mode. You can assign ISO to buttons, but this adds a needless step where you push the appropriate button and then get to use the dial to set ISO.

Once an oversight of this nature is made, Oly cannot recognize it and then simply not make it. In this case the band-aid comes from the control-dial lever, which gives a second function to each control dial. Finally, ISO can be set to a dial!

But wait, only a dial in position two of the lever. And of course shutter/aperture can only be assigned to a dial in position one. So you still have the needless step of throwing the damn switch to get access to shutter/aperture and ISO adjustments (or head down the auto ISO rabbit-hole, a cure worse than the disease).

From there things get a bit silly. Alternative operating modes for the lever are devised, none of which amount to much as they enact functions that are not corners of the exposure triangle, and thus can be assigned to any of the plentiful buttons. And besides, the control logic of those functions is probably so strained you can't even use them without a printed copy of both the user manual and ready access to your favorite Oly setup thread.

And then sixty menu settings are added to allow precise detailing of all aspects of the (useless) additional operating modes of the switch. But you still can't set ISO and shutter/aperture to the dials at the same time. But the menu has grown, and the cumulative affect of this runaway train as it visits every single aspect of control input is a dizzying array of menu settings that once expertly tuned almost make the camera work like it should by default.

Meanwhile you can set exposure compensation to every single dial, lever, button, and switch. At the same time. I guess Oly hasn't figured out their exposure metering is so good I rarely need to comp it..

 

[Frasier Krane]

I am not a fan boy of Panasonic but have only owned Panasonic cameras so far. I am not in the market for a new camera just yet, but have started looking at what is out there in m 4/3 land. I started with the GF1, and loved it for its size, then came my G3 and now my GX7. I have been upset with the trend to a larger body by Panasonic as I feel that the GX7 is as large as I want to go, but I also want a featured filled camera. Olympus seems to have that in what they offer and I am now reading reviews and watching videos about Olympus products. No one seems to like the Olympus menu as everyone talks about just how bad that is. I found Panasonic menu easy to figure out. One other common complaint I have read is that the eye guard keeps falling off the E-M5 II and you should have more than one because you will lose the one that came with the camera. Now having a eye piece fall off the camera sounds like they might not pay attention to detail. One other set of reviews talked about the flip out screen going blank just after a few days of ownership of the Olympus camera. The flip out screen is a big item for me because I had that on the G3 and loved it.

I follow Thom Hogan and Steve Huff and they both really like the Olympus line. I am looking at the newer OMD E-M5 II. Those of you who own one. have the problems listed above been a problem for you. And if anyone has used both the Panasonic menu and the Olympus menu have you had a problem when you went with the Olympus menu. Two great camera manufactures not sure which I will go with when I upgrade next time around. I also realize that my next camera may not been issued yet.

www.photosbypike.com

I'm not sure how you classify a camera's size or what particular dimensions of the camera are most important to you, but the E-M5 II doesn't appear to be a lightweight. According to camerasize.com, it weighs 86g more than the G7, which is not insubstantial.

Now before anyone jumps on me if this is wrong, I haven't personally verified it with other sources. So, if camerasize.com is wrong, just let me know politely.

Here's a size comparison.



You'll note that, according to this site, the E-M5 II even weighs more than the GX8 by 9g, which is not much.

But, for the life of me, by actually looking at these cameras side by side, I'm not sure why people believe the E-M5 II is that much smaller. It is slightly thinner than the G7 because of the G7's beefy grip. It is slightly less wide than the GX8, but not much thinner.

IMO, weight is probably as important a factor as bulk. And having a slightly beefier grip on a camera while still being ultra lightweight is not a bad thing from my experience.

I have to agree, I think the size issue is overblown. The GX8 does feel incredibly solid which could be perceived as making it feel larger but as your diagrams illustrate there is not much difference in reality. The GX8 may weigh 20g (0.7oz) more than an EM5ii, but again does anyone really believe that is significant in the real world?

Thanks. It seems that my concern that something might have been off was correct.

It turns out the GX8 weighs 18g more than the E-M5 II and the E-M5 II weighs 59g more than the G7. It appears that camerasize.com quoted the weight of the E-M5 II as 496g while it is actually 469g. I believe the quoted weight of the G7 as 410g and the weight of the GX8 as 487g are still correct.

The body size is largely irrelevant once you are down to Sony A7 or Fuji XT1 size, you have to be able to hold and operate the camera, with many people adding size by using grips. For me u4/3 size is all about the lenses. Most people only carry one body but several lenses and it is the size of the lenses which has far more impact on portability than the body size. To carry my Nikon 16-85mm, 70-300mm, Tokina 11-16mm you need a substantial bag. Each lens weighs more than the GX8 body and in total they weigh 1.79Kg (3.9lb).

Ian

 

[JosephScha]

If you had a GX7, but the GX8 is too big have you perhaps considered the G7 ?

I just bought a G7KS because I like that form factor. It is really quite small. Measurements came it is slightly larger than my old G10 but honestly I don't see it.

 

[tjuster1]

I'm not sure how you classify a camera's size or what particular dimensions of the camera are most important to you, but the E-M5 II doesn't appear to be a lightweight. According to camerasize.com, it weighs 86g more than the G7, which is not insubstantial.

Now before anyone jumps on me if this is wrong, I haven't personally verified it with other sources. So, if camerasize.com is wrong, just let me know politely.

Here's a size comparison.



You'll note that, according to this site, the E-M5 II even weighs more than the GX8 by 9g, which is not much.

But, for the life of me, by actually looking at these cameras side by side, I'm not sure why people believe the E-M5 II is that much smaller. It is slightly thinner than the G7 because of the G7's beefy grip. It is slightly less wide than the GX8, but not much thinner.

IMO, weight is probably as important a factor as bulk. And having a slightly beefier grip on a camera while still being ultra lightweight is not a bad thing from my experience.

Well, we see things differently. To me, there's a GIGANTIC difference in size shown by these images. I mean, it's colossal. As to weight, I actually find the opposite--volume bothers me much more than weight, since it's the volume that determines where the camera can go (e.g., pocket, bag, etc.).

But, as I've written many times, to each his/her own: if you prefer the larger size, go for it.

 

[JosephScha]

Colossal difference? The OMD is 1 mm narrower and 1.2mm shorter. It is much less deep, and that is WHY I bought the G7 - because it has a really good deep grip!

 

[agachart]

Well, I wouldn't mind the menue. Due tothe addirtional features of the Oly cameras it is a kind of more complicated but on the one hand you quickly lean to use it and on the other, you need it only rarely after having made your basic adjustments, due to the SCP.

I agree. I switched Pan->Oly and found the learning curve a bit daunting at first, but don't really notice now.

But here comes the next important point: shoud you use a properly working C-AF, there's only The E-M1 on the Oly side while Pama has got the G7(0), the GX8 and the GH4.

Depends what you shoot. I went with the EM5ii, in spite of lack of PDAF, for its small size and because I was reluctant to buy into the EM1 late in its lifecycle. It's been great, but I don't shoot a lot of moving targets. Now that EM1s are deeply discounted and have acquired some EM5ii features via firmware, it's a tougher choice.

I think you could also say "you should use a proper EFCS" which leaves only the Oly options. And again, whether it really matters depends on what you shoot. For me, the EM5ii with 0s Antishock and IBIS is a dramatic improvement over GH2+MegaOIS.

about pdaf and not a fan boy.
pdaf on sensor can be use on u4/3 lens.
but no pdaf optimize.

that lack of performance.
why your want it? it can not compare to pure pdaf system.

 

[Chris Noble]

Different cameras work differently for different people.

 

[Glen Barrington]

Every bit as reliable as my E-30, E500, and before that my Canon cameras. None of the physical issues you have heard about.

My biggest complaint, so far, has been that as you point out, the menuing system is overly complex and a bit overwhelming (Though i've gotten reasonably proficient with it over time), and that I don't think the owner's manual is as good and as well laid out as the ones for the E500 and the E30. I found WN Green's ebook on the E-M10 a pretty good investment. (around $6 USD, if I recall)

I have encountered NO problems with the E-M10 that would prevent me from buying another Olympus camera in the future.

 

[Yannis1976]

I also love the GX7 body and was disappointed by GX8 larger size. However today I had the chance to "play" for a few minutes with and OMD M10 mk2 and found the body really awkward. The grip is practically non existent and controls felt a bit cramped compared to my GX7. Also the EVF despite being bigger than the one in the GX7, it seemed to suffer from tearing (tested indoors, at ISO 1600, low light). These are only impressions from 5-6 shots I managed to capture and I might be wrong.

--

Yannis

Yannis Tzevelekos

Explore Yannis Tzevelekos’s 969 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

 

[400trix]

One other common complaint I have read is that the eye guard keeps falling off the E-M5 II and you should have more than one because you will lose the one that came with the camera.

Easily solved with a small piece of gaffer tape. But get the larger eyecup anyway, its much nicer.

 

[TN Args]

I'm not sure how you classify a camera's size or what particular dimensions of the camera are most important to you, but the E-M5 II doesn't appear to be a lightweight. According to camerasize.com, it weighs 86g more than the G7, which is not insubstantial.

Now before anyone jumps on me if this is wrong, I haven't personally verified it with other sources. So, if camerasize.com is wrong, just let me know politely.

Here's a size comparison.



You'll note that, according to this site, the E-M5 II even weighs more than the GX8 by 9g, which is not much.

But, for the life of me, by actually looking at these cameras side by side, I'm not sure why people believe the E-M5 II is that much smaller. It is slightly thinner than the G7 because of the G7's beefy grip. It is slightly less wide than the GX8, but not much thinner.

IMO, weight is probably as important a factor as bulk. And having a slightly beefier grip on a camera while still being ultra lightweight is not a bad thing from my experience.

Well, we see things differently. To me, there's a GIGANTIC difference in size shown by these images. I mean, it's colossal. As to weight, I actually find the opposite--volume bothers me much more than weight, since it's the volume that determines where the camera can go (e.g., pocket, bag, etc.).

But, as I've written many times, to each his/her own: if you prefer the larger size, go for it.

You are being fooled by the higher shoulders on the Lumixes, into thinking they are 'bigger' when they are not. The M5II is actually taller than the GX8 and the same height as the G7.

So Olympus make tall cameras but drop the shoulders to give a 'svelte' impression while actually being the bigger. Unfortunately this means the Oly handgrips are lesser than the Panasonics.

Also, if you like the rangefinder form (I do), look at the back of the GX8, and notice that it is impossible to make it the body lower without making the back screen or the EVF smaller. So if you love its EVF and don't want a small back screen, there's no way to make it smaller. So, why complain?

--
Arg

 

[Sherlock74]

The beauty of the GX7 and I'm sure the GX8 is the better touch screen - if you like touch screens.

You can move the focus point on the screen whilst your eye is at the EVF.

I stand corrected if I'm mistaken, but I'm sure you cannot do that on the EM1. Newer Oly cameras maybe.

Both Panasonic and Olympus have advantages and disadvantages but for me, the Pansonic menu system is far clearer.

Of note also, I find the central EVF on Oly cameras a lot better when switching quickly from landscape to portrait. The EVF on the left side of the camera like the GX7 I always find more difficult going for landscape to portrait, but that is just me.

 

[Photography201]

I buy a camera more for what i need it to do and also look how and to what extent the camera system is supported.

Past that the final product is important. If you can get the same result with a $500 p&s that you get with a DSLR, MFT's Fuji X etc no will know except the photographer.

That said, to my eye I can see the difference between Micro four thirds and the Fuji X if done right so far as the final image goes and I went from a DSLR to micro 4/3's to Fuji X

I was heavily invested in MFT's. I had the Panasonic 7-14, 12-35, 35-100 and 45 mm macro. I sold the 25 mm prime, 45-200, 14-45 and can't recall if I had any others this second.

I tend to upgrade and fill gaps but what I learned the hard way was I can overbuy for a what if I need this lens thing and that is a mistake if it is going to get re-sold sooner than later

Anyway, I say be open to change no matter if it is switching systems or reorganizing and even incorporating a p&s camera or DSLR to your system with just buy a camera to get one lens your system does not have like a big telephoto or fast aperture lens whatever...

If I have any doubt if I will continue to use a camera or lens I sell it only after I am sure, this stuff is like leaving $100 bills just laying doing nothing. I want it to work for me before it is just not worth selling.

Point is I like MFT's but for mirrorless all things equal say for portrait work Fuji X is amazing plus you get a larger sensor for that added benefit.

For my photo business I am now back to a FF DSLR.

 

[speedync]

You are being fooled by the higher shoulders on the Lumixes, into thinking they are 'bigger' when they are not. The M5II is actually taller than the GX8 and the same height as the G7.

Also, if you like the rangefinder form (I do), look at the back of the GX8, and notice that it is impossible to make it the body lower without making the back screen or the EVF smaller. So if you love its EVF and don't want a small back screen, there's no way to make it smaller. So, why complain?