Cause for jerk/flicker issue in AX100

[Xiaochuan]

I was really upset about Jerky motion issue in AX100, I searched internet, there are lots of discussion. the answer are using right shut speed ( ie using ND to slowing down shut speed to frame rate*2) and slowing down the panning/zooming speed, higher frame rate with low resolution, etc. nevertheless the problem still happened.

Just now, I bring the portable HD to TV shop, and try play video in different TVs, Samsung TV perfectly play it, sony a little bit jerky issue, and most of rest TVs have serious issue. I suppose the Samsung or sony have kind of motion compensation technology to handle the issue. So far I'm not sure if the external player could solve this problem or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong. sorry for my poor english.

 

[lancespring]

I was really upset about Jerky motion issue in AX100, I searched internet, there are lots of discussion. the answer are using right shut speed ( ie using ND to slowing down shut speed to frame rate*2) and slowing down the panning/zooming speed, higher frame rate with low resolution, etc. nevertheless the problem still happened.

Just now, I bring the portable HD to TV shop, and try play video in different TVs, Samsung TV perfectly play it, sony a little bit jerky issue, and most of rest TVs have serious issue. I suppose the Samsung or sony have kind of motion compensation technology to handle the issue. So far I'm not sure if the external player could solve this problem or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong. sorry for my poor english.

.

Share a sample clip that has this problem online that we can download and test. We could then give you some feedback about it.

Let us know the frame rate, shutter speed, and bit rate that were used when recording the clip. And in your tests, are you working with original files straight out of the camera, or files that you have edited and rendered yourself? Do you see the same issues when you view the videos on your PC?

There is nothing at all wrong with the video produced by the AX100. But it does produce higher resolution and higher bitrate video at slower frame rates, just like all of the other current consumer 4k cameras do. So you need to be aware of the limitations that imposes. And it does have a fairly long telephoto zoom range. Most image stabilization systems on cameras cannot hold such long telephoto shots real steady.

.

 

[Sean Nelson]

Just now, I bring the portable HD to TV shop, and try play video in different TVs, Samsung TV perfectly play it, sony a little bit jerky issue, and most of rest TVs have serious issue. I suppose the Samsung or sony have kind of motion compensation technology to handle the issue.

Yes, many TV's can do frame interpolation to make the slow frame rates play much more smoothly. And even the TV's you tried that looked jerky may have that option available in their menus.

 

[Bangers and Mash]

I was really upset about Jerky motion issue in AX100, I searched internet, there are lots of discussion. the answer are using right shut speed ( ie using ND to slowing down shut speed to frame rate*2) and slowing down the panning/zooming speed, higher frame rate with low resolution, etc. nevertheless the problem still happened.

Just now, I bring the portable HD to TV shop, and try play video in different TVs, Samsung TV perfectly play it, sony a little bit jerky issue, and most of rest TVs have serious issue. I suppose the Samsung or sony have kind of motion compensation technology to handle the issue. So far I'm not sure if the external player could solve this problem or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong. sorry for my poor english.

Perhaps you might want to follow this thread form another forum:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56688836

 

[Xiaochuan]

I was really upset about Jerky motion issue in AX100, I searched internet, there are lots of discussion. the answer are using right shut speed ( ie using ND to slowing down shut speed to frame rate*2) and slowing down the panning/zooming speed, higher frame rate with low resolution, etc. nevertheless the problem still happened.

Just now, I bring the portable HD to TV shop, and try play video in different TVs, Samsung TV perfectly play it, sony a little bit jerky issue, and most of rest TVs have serious issue. I suppose the Samsung or sony have kind of motion compensation technology to handle the issue. So far I'm not sure if the external player could solve this problem or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong. sorry for my poor english.

Perhaps you might want to follow this thread form another forum:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56688836

In my case, it is not stabilization issue, Tripod doesn't help at all.

 

[Xiaochuan]

I was really upset about Jerky motion issue in AX100, I searched internet, there are lots of discussion. the answer are using right shut speed ( ie using ND to slowing down shut speed to frame rate*2) and slowing down the panning/zooming speed, higher frame rate with low resolution, etc. nevertheless the problem still happened.

Just now, I bring the portable HD to TV shop, and try play video in different TVs, Samsung TV perfectly play it, sony a little bit jerky issue, and most of rest TVs have serious issue. I suppose the Samsung or sony have kind of motion compensation technology to handle the issue. So far I'm not sure if the external player could solve this problem or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong. sorry for my poor english.

.

Share a sample clip that has this problem online that we can download and test. We could then give you some feedback about it.

Let us know the frame rate, shutter speed, and bit rate that were used when recording the clip. And in your tests, are you working with original files straight out of the camera, or files that you have edited and rendered yourself? Do you see the same issues when you view the videos on your PC?

There is nothing at all wrong with the video produced by the AX100. But it does produce higher resolution and higher bitrate video at slower frame rates, just like all of the other current consumer 4k cameras do. So you need to be aware of the limitations that imposes. And it does have a fairly long telephoto zoom range. Most image stabilization systems on cameras cannot hold such long telephoto shots real steady.

.

It is not stabilization issue, it seems that tripod doesn't help at all. clip shoot in wide angle, 4k/25f, no edit. I do observe the jerky issue in PC, I believe player in PC do not perform frame interpolation.

 

[Bangers and Mash]

I was really upset about Jerky motion issue in AX100, I searched internet, there are lots of discussion. the answer are using right shut speed ( ie using ND to slowing down shut speed to frame rate*2) and slowing down the panning/zooming speed, higher frame rate with low resolution, etc. nevertheless the problem still happened.

Just now, I bring the portable HD to TV shop, and try play video in different TVs, Samsung TV perfectly play it, sony a little bit jerky issue, and most of rest TVs have serious issue. I suppose the Samsung or sony have kind of motion compensation technology to handle the issue. So far I'm not sure if the external player could solve this problem or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong. sorry for my poor english.

Perhaps you might want to follow this thread form another forum:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56688836

In my case, it is not stabilization issue, Tripod doesn't help at all.

If you're indicating that you are getting these issues even while using a tripod, then there must be something wrong with the camera itself.

I own a Sony AX33 camcorder that was having serious stabilization issues concerning it's balanced optical stabilization system. After a month in repair, then another month waiting for a replacement because it wasn't fixed properly, I just received the new replacement today. I haven't had a chance to try it out. Hopefully the new one will work properly or I'll be tempted to send the thing into orbit.

Perhaps you might want to think about sending it back if you have time, or have it repaired. If you have time to send it back for a reimbursement or replacement, don't wait too long like I did.

Cheers

Wayne

 

[lancespring]

I was really upset about Jerky motion issue in AX100, I searched internet, there are lots of discussion. the answer are using right shut speed ( ie using ND to slowing down shut speed to frame rate*2) and slowing down the panning/zooming speed, higher frame rate with low resolution, etc. nevertheless the problem still happened.

Just now, I bring the portable HD to TV shop, and try play video in different TVs, Samsung TV perfectly play it, sony a little bit jerky issue, and most of rest TVs have serious issue. I suppose the Samsung or sony have kind of motion compensation technology to handle the issue. So far I'm not sure if the external player could solve this problem or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong. sorry for my poor english.

.

Share a sample clip that has this problem online that we can download and test. We could then give you some feedback about it.

Let us know the frame rate, shutter speed, and bit rate that were used when recording the clip. And in your tests, are you working with original files straight out of the camera, or files that you have edited and rendered yourself? Do you see the same issues when you view the videos on your PC?

There is nothing at all wrong with the video produced by the AX100. But it does produce higher resolution and higher bitrate video at slower frame rates, just like all of the other current consumer 4k cameras do. So you need to be aware of the limitations that imposes. And it does have a fairly long telephoto zoom range. Most image stabilization systems on cameras cannot hold such long telephoto shots real steady.

.

It is not stabilization issue, it seems that tripod doesn't help at all. clip shoot in wide angle, 4k/25f, no edit. I do observe the jerky issue in PC, I believe player in PC do not perform frame interpolation.

.

Struggle with the dramatically higher bit rates of 4k video. I do not believe that you are experiencing anything other than what one would normally expect to encounter in playing any 4k/25p video.


I don't have a PAL AX100 myself. Mine is NTSC, and I thus do all of my recording at 4k/30p at 100 Mbps XAVC-S. And I see nothing like what you describe. What bitrate option are you recording at? What firmware revision is your AX100 at? Have you ever gone into setup and checked the version number? Do that, if you have not already done so.


If you want to get to the bottom of this, then please follow my earlier suggestion of posting a short video clip that illustrates what you are experiencing that we can downloaded. Then other people here could examine the file, and see if we can duplicate your reported problems.
.

 

[Xiaochuan]

I was really upset about Jerky motion issue in AX100, I searched internet, there are lots of discussion. the answer are using right shut speed ( ie using ND to slowing down shut speed to frame rate*2) and slowing down the panning/zooming speed, higher frame rate with low resolution, etc. nevertheless the problem still happened.

Just now, I bring the portable HD to TV shop, and try play video in different TVs, Samsung TV perfectly play it, sony a little bit jerky issue, and most of rest TVs have serious issue. I suppose the Samsung or sony have kind of motion compensation technology to handle the issue. So far I'm not sure if the external player could solve this problem or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong. sorry for my poor english.

.

Share a sample clip that has this problem online that we can download and test. We could then give you some feedback about it.

Let us know the frame rate, shutter speed, and bit rate that were used when recording the clip. And in your tests, are you working with original files straight out of the camera, or files that you have edited and rendered yourself? Do you see the same issues when you view the videos on your PC?

There is nothing at all wrong with the video produced by the AX100. But it does produce higher resolution and higher bitrate video at slower frame rates, just like all of the other current consumer 4k cameras do. So you need to be aware of the limitations that imposes. And it does have a fairly long telephoto zoom range. Most image stabilization systems on cameras cannot hold such long telephoto shots real steady.

.

It is not stabilization issue, it seems that tripod doesn't help at all. clip shoot in wide angle, 4k/25f, no edit. I do observe the jerky issue in PC, I believe player in PC do not perform frame interpolation.

.

Struggle with the dramatically higher bit rates of 4k video. I do not believe that you are experiencing anything other than what one would normally expect to encounter in playing any 4k/25p video.

I don't have a PAL AX100 myself. Mine is NTSC, and I thus do all of my recording at 4k/30p at 100 Mbps XAVC-S. And I see nothing like what you describe. What bitrate option are you recording at? What firmware revision is your AX100 at? Have you ever gone into setup and checked the version number? Do that, if you have not already done so.

If you want to get to the bottom of this, then please follow my earlier suggestion of posting a short video clip that illustrates what you are experiencing that we can downloaded. Then other people here could examine the file, and see if we can duplicate your reported problems.
.

the firmware is 3.00, if I remember correctly, however I use 60m bitrate to shoot, because many mentioned no obvious difference.

I upload a typical jerky/flicker video (original mp4) to chinese popular cloud service

Loading…

pan.baidu.com

sorry, it is in chinese, you could click download icon in up right, then in the pop up box click the right button, meaning normal download, the file is C0219.mp4 (73.8 MB) I shoot it in running tram.

the second scene is even more normal ie panning cause jerky/flicker issue

Loading…

pan.baidu.com

the file is C0258.mp4 (83.5 MB)

It would be great if you could check these files.

 

[lancespring]

I was really upset about Jerky motion issue in AX100, I searched internet, there are lots of discussion. the answer are using right shut speed ( ie using ND to slowing down shut speed to frame rate*2) and slowing down the panning/zooming speed, higher frame rate with low resolution, etc. nevertheless the problem still happened.

Just now, I bring the portable HD to TV shop, and try play video in different TVs, Samsung TV perfectly play it, sony a little bit jerky issue, and most of rest TVs have serious issue. I suppose the Samsung or sony have kind of motion compensation technology to handle the issue. So far I'm not sure if the external player could solve this problem or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong. sorry for my poor english.

.

Share a sample clip that has this problem online that we can download and test. We could then give you some feedback about it.

Let us know the frame rate, shutter speed, and bit rate that were used when recording the clip. And in your tests, are you working with original files straight out of the camera, or files that you have edited and rendered yourself? Do you see the same issues when you view the videos on your PC?

There is nothing at all wrong with the video produced by the AX100. But it does produce higher resolution and higher bitrate video at slower frame rates, just like all of the other current consumer 4k cameras do. So you need to be aware of the limitations that imposes. And it does have a fairly long telephoto zoom range. Most image stabilization systems on cameras cannot hold such long telephoto shots real steady.

.

It is not stabilization issue, it seems that tripod doesn't help at all. clip shoot in wide angle, 4k/25f, no edit. I do observe the jerky issue in PC, I believe player in PC do not perform frame interpolation.

.

Struggle with the dramatically higher bit rates of 4k video. I do not believe that you are experiencing anything other than what one would normally expect to encounter in playing any 4k/25p video.

I don't have a PAL AX100 myself. Mine is NTSC, and I thus do all of my recording at 4k/30p at 100 Mbps XAVC-S. And I see nothing like what you describe. What bitrate option are you recording at? What firmware revision is your AX100 at? Have you ever gone into setup and checked the version number? Do that, if you have not already done so.

If you want to get to the bottom of this, then please follow my earlier suggestion of posting a short video clip that illustrates what you are experiencing that we can downloaded. Then other people here could examine the file, and see if we can duplicate your reported problems.
.

the firmware is 3.00, if I remember correctly, however I use 60m bitrate to shoot, because many mentioned no obvious difference.

I upload a typical jerky/flicker video (original mp4) to chinese popular cloud service

http://pan.baidu.com/s/1c03AY8C

sorry, it is in chinese, you could click download icon in up right, then in the pop up box click the right button, meaning normal download, the file is C0219.mp4 (73.8 MB) I shoot it in running tram.

the second scene is even more normal ie panning cause jerky/flicker issue

http://pan.baidu.com/s/1ntKnCoT

the file is C0258.mp4 (83.5 MB)

It would be great if you could check these files.

.

The first link seems to generate some sort of error message. This is what it says:









For the second link, I clicked on what looks like a download icon, but it then downloaded an EXE file to my system named BaiduYunGuanjia_5.3.4.exe

There is no way that I am going to run an unknown .exe file on my computer



Sorry, but I am having no success in downloading a video file from either these two webpages.



.

 

[lancespring]

[No message]

 

[lancespring]

Does this AX100 video play OK for you? It was shots at 4k/30p at 60 Mbps.

If it plays OK, there is a download button on the page, that you can use to download the original 4k UHD ( 3840x2160 ) video. Does it also play fine on your PC?

.

 

[Xiaochuan]

Does this AX100 video play OK for you? It was shots at 4k/30p at 60 Mbps.

If it plays OK, there is a download button on the page, that you can use to download the original 4k UHD ( 3840x2160 ) video. Does it also play fine on your PC?

.

Thanks for your try, I could not access vimeo unfortunately. Now I'm uploading my two files to MS Onedrive, It takes more than 5 hours to do so.

C0258.mp4 is ready now, http://1drv.ms/1M3KOHA

the second one is still uploading...

Hope this time good luck

 

[Xiaochuan]

I was really upset about Jerky motion issue in AX100, I searched internet, there are lots of discussion. the answer are using right shut speed ( ie using ND to slowing down shut speed to frame rate*2) and slowing down the panning/zooming speed, higher frame rate with low resolution, etc. nevertheless the problem still happened.

Just now, I bring the portable HD to TV shop, and try play video in different TVs, Samsung TV perfectly play it, sony a little bit jerky issue, and most of rest TVs have serious issue. I suppose the Samsung or sony have kind of motion compensation technology to handle the issue. So far I'm not sure if the external player could solve this problem or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong. sorry for my poor english.

Perhaps you might want to follow this thread form another forum:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56688836

In my case, it is not stabilization issue, Tripod doesn't help at all.

If you're indicating that you are getting these issues even while using a tripod, then there must be something wrong with the camera itself.

I own a Sony AX33 camcorder that was having serious stabilization issues concerning it's balanced optical stabilization system. After a month in repair, then another month waiting for a replacement because it wasn't fixed properly, I just received the new replacement today. I haven't had a chance to try it out. Hopefully the new one will work properly or I'll be tempted to send the thing into orbit.

Perhaps you might want to think about sending it back if you have time, or have it repaired. If you have time to send it back for a reimbursement or replacement, don't wait too long like I did.

Cheers

Wayne

Actually I saw a lot people mentioned this problem, the first thing I should do is clarifying which cause the problem, DV, playback, or TV. Now it seems that, Dv is not to blame from the TV test.

 

[Xiaochuan]

I was really upset about Jerky motion issue in AX100, I searched internet, there are lots of discussion. the answer are using right shut speed ( ie using ND to slowing down shut speed to frame rate*2) and slowing down the panning/zooming speed, higher frame rate with low resolution, etc. nevertheless the problem still happened.

Just now, I bring the portable HD to TV shop, and try play video in different TVs, Samsung TV perfectly play it, sony a little bit jerky issue, and most of rest TVs have serious issue. I suppose the Samsung or sony have kind of motion compensation technology to handle the issue. So far I'm not sure if the external player could solve this problem or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong. sorry for my poor english.

Yesterday, i tested the typical video in high end model of Chinese brand TV, Skyworth. no issue found, this tv is more than $4000.

Now it is clear, this is not DV issue. good player or TV could solve this.

 

[Nuts About Photography]

The Vimeo video played just fine. Looked great.

 

[lancespring]

Does this AX100 video play OK for you? It was shots at 4k/30p at 60 Mbps.

If it plays OK, there is a download button on the page, that you can use to download the original 4k UHD ( 3840x2160 ) video. Does it also play fine on your PC?

.

Thanks for your try, I could not access vimeo unfortunately. Now I'm uploading my two files to MS Onedrive, It takes more than 5 hours to do so.

C0258.mp4 is ready now, http://1drv.ms/1M3KOHA

.

This video appears to definitely be handheld, and also shot telephoto. It also involves rapid panning.

I see nothing at all unusual going on in this video. While the AX100's image stabilization is decent, it is not the best. Any handheld stabilized telephoto shots will not be that steady. Especially when one pans this rapidly when shooting such a slow frame rate as 25p.

What shutter speed were you using? Perhaps try using something slightly slower.

Also, upgrade your firmware and start shooting at 100 Mbps. I have not used 60 Mbps on my AX100 since I installed the 3.0 firmware update last March.

In addition, rapidly panned video generally looks awful. Unless one is recording sports, I would never advise anyone do any rapid panning. And then I always recommend shooting in 60p, which means switching to 1080 HD recording.

I do not know of any consumer cameras or camcorders that can shoot UHD 4k at 60p yet. Perhaps products will come out in 2016 or 2017 that will be able to do that.

.

Hopefully some others here can also take a look at your video at the above link, and give you some additional feedback about it.

.

 

[lancespring]

I also noticed the other video that you uploaded that appears to have been shot out an automobile window.

That video looks very smooth to me when when I view it. I do not see any jittering or stuttering in it. Perhaps your PC is having difficulty in handling 4k video.

Also, if it is taking you many hours to upload just one of these short videos, I would be concerned that your Internet speed may not be sufficient to handle viewing 4k video online.

.

 

[Xiaochuan]

I also noticed the other video that you uploaded that appears to have been shot out an automobile window.

That video looks very smooth to me when when I view it. I do not see any jittering or stuttering in it. Perhaps your PC is having difficulty in handling 4k video.

Also, if it is taking you many hours to upload just one of these short videos, I would be concerned that your Internet speed may not be sufficient to handle viewing 4k video online.

.

As many mentioned the jerky/flicker problem, i confirmed the player/Tv should be blamed.

My PC player has this problem as well, though it can decode 4k video easily (Intel Xeon E3-1230, 16G ram, SSD ...)

I will not consider to watch 4k online in recent years, no good 4k video source online at all. currently my internet bandwidth is around 40M. You know in china, this bandwidth number is only for domestic server.

 

[lancespring]

I also noticed the other video that you uploaded that appears to have been shot out an automobile window.

That video looks very smooth to me when when I view it. I do not see any jittering or stuttering in it. Perhaps your PC is having difficulty in handling 4k video.

Also, if it is taking you many hours to upload just one of these short videos, I would be concerned that your Internet speed may not be sufficient to handle viewing 4k video online.

.

As many mentioned the jerky/flicker problem, i confirmed the player/Tv should be blamed.

My PC player has this problem as well, though it can decode 4k video easily (Intel Xeon E3-1230, 16G ram, SSD ...)

I will not consider to watch 4k online in recent years, no good 4k video source online at all. currently my internet bandwidth is around 40M. You know in china, this bandwidth number is only for domestic server.

.

Perhaps upgrading your video adapter could help with viewing on your computer. Your system has a good amount of RAM and CPU power.

Although many others here on this forum have argued that sharing 4k video online is very feasible, I have found many issues myself. So while I shoot in 4k, I render to 1080p or even 720p to share online.

.