New GH4 user - Equipment Advice

[TroyH]

Hello everyone, first i would like to apologize if this question has been constantly flying around this forum. I'm currently new to this forum, so greetings!

I recently picked up the GH4 for video, and i'm pairing it up with the Canon Metabones Speed Boster.

The only 2 lenses i have currently are the Rokinon/Samyang 14mm 2.8 and the Sigma 30mm 1.4 (non-art)

I'm interested in maybe picking up a lens or two, but i'm confused on what to choose.

I currently have eyes on the Sigma 18-35mm 1.8/ Canon 24-70L 2.8/ Canon 70-200L F4 /

If you guys have any other suggestions on lens choice or if a lens choice that i have is bad, please let me know!

I really want a nice set of lens that will cover all focal ranges for maybe a wedding shoot.

 

[Andrew S10]

Constant aperture zoom lenses are probably the way to go if you plan on shooting weddings. Tokina makes some great lenses, but they tend to be heavy and lack image stabilization. If you plan on ever shoot any kind of interviews, go with a 50mm prime, or maybe an 80mm prime.

I'm shooting on a camera with a 1.5 crop sensor, and I'm usually fine with a 35mm equivalent of full frame on the wide end, and a 300mm FF equivalent on the telephoto end.

 

[mmurph]

Those are all great lenses.

On the Nikon side, I bought the Excellent++ Sigma 17-50 2.8 OS lens on eBay, direct from Japan, for $318 shipped. It arrived in 2 days. (I bought from WinTokyo.)

That was the sharpest standard zoom lens as rated by DxO for the Nikon D7100. It is an absolute bargain, I cannot recommend it highly enough. It is also available in a Canon mount.

It does vignette a bit wide open, but that is pretty typical. Stopped down to 4.0 is it fantastic.

If you can get by with f 4.0, the Canon 70-200 4.0 non-IS sells used for around $425 to $450. The IS version sells for around $700-$750.

Good luck!

 

[TroyH]

Thanks for the help! I think the only problem i might run into with the 70-200 is the crop factor on the gh4+speedbooster. Do you think it might be too long?

 

[DJohnny]

Based on my experience, third party lenses offer nothing over Panasonic's (or Olympus's) offerings. Panasonic's 12-35 seems a few steps above the Canon 24-70/2.8 mkI and on par with the mk II. You will get a wider field of view as well. Maybe Panasonic 12-35 + Leisonic 42.5/1.2? If you need low light from the Zoom, the Sigma 18-35 makes sense. That gives about 25-50mm equivalence with Speed booster. In low light and shallow DoF, the Sigma > Panasonic. In all other aspects they are about even.

If you go for any of the normal zooms, I recommend selling your two primes. They are redundant with a normal zoom. The Sigma 18-35 will work best to replace both since one prime is an F1.4.

What are you shooting by the way? That impacts lens choice

 

[TroyH]

Based on my experience, third party lenses offer nothing over Panasonic's (or Olympus's) offerings. Panasonic's 12-35 seems a few steps above the Canon 24-70/2.8 mkI and on par with the mk II. You will get a wider field of view as well. Maybe Panasonic 12-35 + Leisonic 42.5/1.2? If you need low light from the Zoom, the Sigma 18-35 makes sense. That gives about 25-50mm equivalence with Speed booster. In low light and shallow DoF, the Sigma > Panasonic. In all other aspects they are about even.

If you go for any of the normal zooms, I recommend selling your two primes. They are redundant with a normal zoom. The Sigma 18-35 will work best to replace both since one prime is an F1.4.

What are you shooting by the way? That impacts lens choice

The 12-35 seems like a great choice, but i've already decided on third party lenses. Also i want to have the 24-70 to have more range, paired with maybe the 18-35.

Some wedding work, and general shooting are my intentions.

 

[DJohnny]

24-70 & 18-35 is not a good combo! The 18-35 is so much better you will question purchasing a 24-70.

I've personally used the 18-35 in weddings and this works very well. Nowadays, I use the 12-35 + 25/1.4 on the GH4 (sold the 18-35 and speed booster). Basically 12-35 until reception then 25 when it is dark.

On the A7S, I use the 24-70 until open dancing and I switch to the 35/1.4 (or a 50/1.4) at that point unless it is a relatively bright reception. I've found that only 3 weddings so far (out of 15 +/-) allowed me to use under 25600 ISO on the A7S @ F1.4!

On the A77ii I use the 70-200/2.8 for ceremony. This lens is useless the rest of the day (either too dark or too long) and I advise against it. The 135/1.8 is more useful than I imagined (on FF of course)... More so than the 35mm! Great for ceremony and reception. The 35mm is good for open dancing.

With that said, your best bet is probably the 18-35 + 85/1.2 on the GH4 with the SBXL. I do not recommend an F2.8 lens because even with speed booster, you will quickly hit the low light limit of the gh4. It will not be too good for reception although the range is nice. The usable ISO limit on the GH4 is 3200. Keep that in mind when choosing lenses. On the A7S it's 51200. Even with that I can only use F2.8 at 3 weddings so far this year! The GH4 will need F1.4 minimum and the only way to get that is with the 18-35 (more lime F1.3). The 85 F1.2 will roughly be a 108 F0.8!

From my experience the more light gathering you can get the better! Also, I use up to 5 cameras but by reception usually only the A7S is usable...

 

[TroyH]

24-70 & 18-35 is not a good combo! The 18-35 is so much better you will question purchasing a 24-70.

I've personally used the 18-35 in weddings and this works very well. Nowadays, I use the 12-35 + 25/1.4 on the GH4 (sold the 18-35 and speed booster). Basically 12-35 until reception then 25 when it is dark.

On the A7S, I use the 24-70 until open dancing and I switch to the 35/1.4 (or a 50/1.4) at that point unless it is a relatively bright reception. I've found that only 3 weddings so far (out of 15 +/-) allowed me to use under 25600 ISO on the A7S @ F1.4!

On the A77ii I use the 70-200/2.8 for ceremony. This lens is useless the rest of the day (either too dark or too long) and I advise against it. The 135/1.8 is more useful than I imagined (on FF of course)... More so than the 35mm! Great for ceremony and reception. The 35mm is good for open dancing.

With that said, your best bet is probably the 18-35 + 85/1.2 on the GH4 with the SBXL. I do not recommend an F2.8 lens because even with speed booster, you will quickly hit the low light limit of the gh4. It will not be too good for reception although the range is nice. The usable ISO limit on the GH4 is 3200. Keep that in mind when choosing lenses. On the A7S it's 51200. Even with that I can only use F2.8 at 3 weddings so far this year! The GH4 will need F1.4 minimum and the only way to get that is with the 18-35 (more lime F1.3). The 85 F1.2 will roughly be a 108 F0.8!

From my experience the more light gathering you can get the better! Also, I use up to 5 cameras but by reception usually only the A7S is usable...

Thanks for help! I didn't really think about that. I wanted to used the 24-70 just for general shooting, but i guess the 18-35 can do me well. I'm considering the Rokinon/Samyang 85mm 1.4, what do you think about that lens compared to the canon 85 1.2/1.8

 

[DJohnny]

I do not have experience with either. I think low light is your goal here, and with those choices, I would opt for the Rokinon only because of the price difference. Maybe double check the T-Stop values however (T-Stop is actual light transmission). I think the Rokinon may actually have the best transmission...

Please keep in mind however, while I personally love the 110mm focal length (135 in my case), it is a very limited lens. Good for things that do not move (toasts, ceremony, etc...) and close ups.

 

[TroyH]

I do not have experience with either. I think low light is your goal here, and with those choices, I would opt for the Rokinon only because of the price difference. Maybe double check the T-Stop values however (T-Stop is actual light transmission). I think the Rokinon may actually have the best transmission...

Please keep in mind however, while I personally love the 110mm focal length (135 in my case), it is a very limited lens. Good for things that do not move (toasts, ceremony, etc...) and close ups.

i see, well i do need some reach as the gear i have now is pretty limited. Would you think a 50mm would be a better choice due to the crop factor?

 

[DJohnny]

With the speed booster, no. You are looking at roughly 64mm FoV, which is not much in terms of reach and barely more than the Sigma. The 110mm FoV of the 85 is probably perfect for reach for weddings.

 

[TroyH]

With the speed booster, no. You are looking at roughly 64mm FoV, which is not much in terms of reach and barely more than the Sigma. The 110mm FoV of the 85 is probably perfect for reach for weddings.

Thanks for the help, i appreciate it. Say i get the 18-35+ an 85mm, aside from those should i purchase anything else that will make shooting a wedding easier? I'm also looking for some budget led lights as well, if you know any that would be great.

 

[Andrew S10]

See this thread about LED lights.

 

[DJohnny]

With the speed booster, no. You are looking at roughly 64mm FoV, which is not much in terms of reach and barely more than the Sigma. The 110mm FoV of the 85 is probably perfect for reach for weddings.

Thanks for the help, i appreciate it. Say i get the 18-35+ an 85mm, aside from those should i purchase anything else that will make shooting a wedding easier? I'm also looking for some budget led lights as well, if you know any that would be great.

I recommend using a monopod. I use the manfrotto ones myself that have the three small feet with the 501 head. The Sigma is rather heavy not to mention that hand held will be very shaky. Not worth it to record 4k just for stabilizing. If you over stabilize, your software may even crash. A few years ago, I edited someones proposal and it was handheld, so I stabilized a lot of it and PP crashed. The file would then not open because of memory errors. I had to start over. This was old system with C2Q & 4GB RAM pre CUDA/OpenCL support.

For Ceremony, I recommend a tripod. I use a Manfrotto here as well because of the quick release compatibility. The Manfrotto monopod is very good and that can work as a tripod as well, but if you tighten it so much to double as a tripod, it is hard to find the balance where you can still move it smoothly to do mock dolly shots and such. Because of the monopod being so good, I bought a Manfrotto tripod (QR compatibility). I have X55Pro3 with MVH502AH head. The legs are great but the head is not. I forgot what the older model of the head is, but go for that instead if you do Manfrotto. MVH502AH is made in China and it shows! The friction control doesn't work and because of the extra controls, it never gets the right feel. I sometimes have better results with a ball head, which is pathetic!

LEDs are good for reception, but keep in mind that many couples do not want them. I do not use them, but have had an assistant use her cellphone LED at one wedding. It was enough to make the GH4 usable when I needed 32000 ISO @ F1.4 with the A7S. Lights are only good for up to 10Ft though. After that the light spreads too much. LED with the 18-35 will work, but maybe not with the 85 unless you get some type of spot light (I do not recommend the latter).

Shooting a wedding will not be easy. I am averaging $12k per year in gear over the last three years and they are getting harder rather than easier... The issue is that trends change. This year, it is dark trend and couples do not expect any noise in the video, but also do not want you to use lights. In my opinion, unless you are charging $4k+ per wedding, it's not worth it to do video. I think over ~60 weddings, I've made about $30k profit over 3 years so far (this year is still a loss). Money wise, you make out better working in fast food. I think in 2 years I will start seeing profit because I feel like I will need a gear upgrade again next year (I am still having low light issues). It depends on what you give though. I have up to 5 cameras at every wedding so editing takes a long time. A single camera will be rather quick and simple, and probably more profitable

 

[RRRoger]

Based on my experience, third party lenses offer nothing over Panasonic's (or Olympus's) offerings. Panasonic's 12-35 seems a few steps above the Canon 24-70/2.8 mkI and on par with the mk II. You will get a wider field of view as well. Maybe Panasonic 12-35 + Leisonic 42.5/1.2? If you need low light from the Zoom, the Sigma 18-35 makes sense. That gives about 25-50mm equivalence with Speed booster. In low light and shallow DoF, the Sigma > Panasonic. In all other aspects they are about even.

If you go for any of the normal zooms, I recommend selling your two primes. They are redundant with a normal zoom. The Sigma 18-35 will work best to replace both since one prime is an F1.4.

What are you shooting by the way? That impacts lens choice

The 12-35 seems like a great choice, but i've already decided on third party lenses. Also i want to have the 24-70 to have more range, paired with maybe the 18-35.

Some wedding work, and general shooting are my intentions.

The 12-35 is not only a great choice but also focus faster on a GH4, plus it is smaller and lighter than most 3rd party lens.

 

[TroyH]

So i went ahead and picked up the sigma 18-35 + rokinon 85mm. I feel like i'm still missing different focal lengths. Should i be concerned or is this kit okay?

Also, thanks Andrew for the light suggestions. I picked up the Yongnuo 900

 

[DJohnny]

So i went ahead and picked up the sigma 18-35 + rokinon 85mm. I feel like i'm still missing different focal lengths. Should i be concerned or is this kit okay?

Also, thanks Andrew for the light suggestions. I picked up the Yongnuo 900

What you have should be good enough for most weddings. There are rarely occasions where you will want anything longer than 50mm where a 110mm is too long. Don't forget, you can shoot 4k if you think you will need to crop in later! This gives you more room with that 18-35. Just make sure you nail the focus.

Part of the reason I was suggesting Nikon mount before however was for this reason. Basically, buy a speed booster and a $15 dumb adapter (or two). This gives you range of 23mm-70mm with the 18-35 and either 109mm or 170mm with the 85! Basically, start out with the 18-35 + SB for prep. For ceremony, put the 18-35 on the dumb adapter (this turns it to a 36mm-70mm equivalent) and keep the SB on the 85. Then at reception, you can start out with the dumb adapter on the 18-35 and finish off with the speed booster for open dancing. With Canon, unfortunately you do not have this option as their dumb adapter has an aperture blade on it. This will cause vignetting as you stop down, whereas the Nikon dumb adapter controls the lens's actual aperture blade! Yes, you could stay wide open all the time with a Canon dumb adapter, but there are situations where you should stop down. Maybe you should pick up a cheap dumb adapter anyway and stay wide open when you need that 46mm-70mm range from the 18-35...

 

[mmurph]

With Canon, unfortunately you do not have this option as their dumb adapter has an aperture blade on it. This will cause vignetting as you stop down, whereas the Nikon dumb adapter controls the lens's actual aperture blade!

There are quite a few Canon to M 4/3 adapters available. I haven't tried either the Metabones Speedbooster, their "regular" $400 adapter, or others. I am still researching first.

One adapter I am very interested in is the Kipon Canon EF to M 4/3 auto focus adapter. It runs about $289 at Adorama. The early tests in May showed pretty fast auto focus on some Canon lenses. Apparently it is still being updated as time goes on with new firmware to to improve performance with other lenses. It also supports in camera aperture control and IS.

+++

I bought a $100 Fotodiox Pro AF adapter for Canon EF to Sony E Mount. That provides AF, camera controlled aperture, and IS on most lenses (with a few exceptions.) The Contrast Detect AF is pathetically slow on the A6000, as it is with the $400 Metabones adapter. But I bought or for the aperture control. The $100 Commlite Canon to NEX adapter is about the same in performance. They also have Canon EF to M 4/3 adapters that you could look at.

+++

According to some of what I am reading, Canon lenses are easier to adapt to other platforms than Nikon in some cases. Apparently Nikon still uses a lever on some lenses, while Canon are completely electronic? At least according to EOS HD here:

Loading…

www.eoshd.com

With the EF version of the XL adapter, aperture control is on the camera side. Whilst the Nikon mount version of the Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 relies on a mechanical lever to drive aperture control, the Canon version is electronic so much more convenient and the aperture is reported to the camera, turning up on metadata.

The Canon Metabones Speedbooster also now includes auto focus, where I don't think that is available in the Nikon version? If we keep getting advances in M 4/3 AF performance, and keep getting better adapters, we might actually be able to use our Canon lenses as "almost native" in a year or tow. That would be fantastic, I am so tired of buying into new lens systems - Canon, Nikon, Nikon 1, Canon EOS M, Sony E, Sony FE, Fuji, Panasonic ....

All of this based on my reading/ research. I am new to Panasonic about 1 month ago, I am just getting ready to make an adapter purchase myself. I may try the Kipon first, then the Metabones.

I have a pretty full Canon kit, and a fairly limited Nikon one. On the Canon side I have the 24-70 2.8 II and 70-200 2.8 II, 17-40 4.0, 70-200 4.0, plus 24 mm, 28 mm, 40 mm, 50 1.8, and Sigma 50 1.4 that I use as a portrait lens on APS-C.

Thanks for the info and discussion all!

--


Best,
Michael

 

[DJohnny]

In your situation, I would definitely go with the Canon adapter! You have an excellent collection of lenses. The mechanical aperture lever however is the biggest advantage of the Nikon lenses! Basically, for Canon, you need electronic connections to get full use of the lens (more $$$ on the adapter and they are prone to issues). For Nikon, you do not. It is just a pin that moves the aperture lever which controls the blade. Yes, you miss out on the metadata settings, however you do not have any metadata info in video anyway

The lower priced adapters may work out, however I have read that many have issues. Read up on them and see if there are pros/cons to each one.

 

[mmurph]

Thank you, it does make sense to keep the Canon kit. It would be a lot of work to swap out, and I love the Canon glass.

I didn't realize how the lever on the Nikon could work as a sort of manual aperture control! That is very interesting. I would love to get truly good auto focus for stills with an adapter some day. It sounds like we are getting closer. EOSHD has some good things to say about the AF on the Metabones Speedbooster:

http://www.eoshd.com/2015/07/hands-...st-af-with-canon-lenses-on-micro-four-thirds/

My initial impressions of the AF is that it can indeed be very fast. It is certainly a massive bonus for stills users to be able to AF with Canon lenses like the 50mm F1.2L on Micro Four Thirds as well as get the advantage of the Speed Booster optics – less crop and more light.

On the Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 wide open AF works very well especially at the wide end of 18mm.

I also tried the Canon EF 40mm F2.8 STM pancake and again speed was quite remarkable. However focus isn’t always reliable, certainly not compared to on a native EF body like the 70D and you can’t get continuous AF in movie mode.

Of course it is always difficult to judge until you get your hands on something. Then it can be clear in 5 or 10 minutes! Frustrating.

Thanks again for the help! I am having fun learning about Panasonic. Now I have to see how far I can push them to replace my other DSLRs. A Speedbooster will definitely help with that. But I think I will also keep the D750 with just a small lens kit for a while too. At least until Canon replaces the 6D and 5D3 with a clean next generation sensor! (The 7DII sensor is very nice, and equal to the D5300 or A6000 at higher ISO, though not at base if course.)

--
Best,
Michael