macro lens - e mount (something comparable to nikon 40mm)

[antarian]

Hello,

I would like to ask a question ... right now much more specific

I would like to buy macro lens (it can be manual focus)

I had http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Nikon/Nikon-AF-S-DX-Micro-NIKKOR-40mm-F28G-mounted-on-Nikon-D7000__680 for nikon d7200 I dont have it always available, so I want something else also on my sony Alpha a6000.

What I can put on sony alpha a6000 to get similar edge to edge sharpness, because 30 mm sony macro seems pretty weak in this regard, so I would rather buy something else.

Edge to edge parameter is the most important for me because I will often use it to shot text, coins and other flat surfaces and I need whole image sharp.

I will use it also to shot food, flowers etc and here the edge to edge is not important (but I need edge to edge sharpness for the shot mentioned above)

I think about some "old macro lens" paired with adaptor, the problem is that I dont know which old macro lens choose or sigma with extension tubes (but from what I read it seems that extension tubes decrease IQ especially on corners, so probably also not option for me)

 

[viperkeeper]

If you like I can take a picture of wood, stone, brick etc and upload the OOC JPEG. I currently have two sets of tubes, Sony 20mm, Zeiss 24mm, Zeiss 55mm, Rokinon 135mm and the Venus 60mm. I can show you the difference lightning makes or a particular lens, aperture, tube combination. Go easy on me

 

[antarian]

I will check whats their postage costs because it seems like a really excellent options for me.

btw. manual focus was dissaster for me on some cameras DSLR but here on a6000 with electronic viewfinder I am able to pretty easily focus exactly where I want with magnifier and then I will just check it via "focus peaking", its basically 100% accuracy with this.

On optical viewfinder on Nikon D7200 I can see some point which is showing me that its should be sharp, but I really dont know if I can believe that because I simply cant see that.

 

[antarian]

Hi, especially that venus would be interesting for me The rest is interesting too, but I dont want to spend money on zeiss for now ... but zeiss 55mm with tubes would be also interesting to see

To be honest if I will dont want to think about money I would definetelly go for Sony FE 90mm F2.8 Macro G OSS which should be absollutely amazing but ... maybe ... maybe sometime later :-D Really dont want to spend so much money for that.

 

[antarian]

This is good point :-D

 

[viperkeeper]

I'm interested myself I'll do 1:1 on the Venus and the 55mm I'm interested in how much light I actually need. I know doing 2:1 with the Venus takes a lot of light. In fact I'd go as far to say its basically a lens with auto tubes built in. I doubt there's much a performance difference between the 55mm and 50mm doing this. I'm not going to use F1.8 for macro and that's where the 55mm shines. As far as the 90mm goes I'm torn myself but I think I'd personally grab the new 85mm and use tubes if needed. It's a though call I want both.

 

[antarian]

I know that i can get nearly perfect results from Nikon D7200 paired with nikon 40mm macro lens

But I just want to use Sony Alpha A6000 too for this purpose and thats why I wonder what to get.

there is also maybe the second interesting point ... why the third party companies basically dont support anything to E mount. I would say that I can see these cameras much more often now and I rarely see cameras which will use A mount.

 

[viperkeeper]

I think because it's a mirrorless camera and the lens design is different than a DSLR. If I make a lens for Nikon it's not much more work to make it available for other DSLRs but mirrorless is different. I make a lens for a Sony mirrorless there just aren't as many body's it can be adapted too. I think at one point Sigma said the new lens design was to costly to make and they wouldn't be making any E-Mount lenses ....that changed with demand.

 

[antarian]

yeah but it was still probably best choice, because to take nikon d7200 somewhere is way too complicated than pick sony A6000.

In the end the versatility of sony mirrorless is payless. You can simply pick it and shot compared to nikon where you will simply not take it with yourself at all so you will not make that shots at all.

That was one of the reason why I picked Sony A6000 over nikon D7200 which use my father right now. I just little envy that nikon 40mm which he have and which cost basically nothing for that IQ :-D

 

[Docrum]

Pick a subject size and I can take shots with the SEL24F18Z, SEL30M35 and SEL50F18. (Using a printed brochure cut to that size and taking full frame shots.)

I haven't got extension tubes so the SEL50F18 will just be as best it can do with no macro aids.

 

[antarian]

Hi everyone,

I just want to mention that I came up with solution of my problem.

1) I bought extension tubes (viltrox - I hope that this wont be dissaster because it cost only 30 dollars on deal extreme)

- This should give me more than 1:1 with set lens when used on 16mm

- I will also try it with my 50mm 1,8 oss lens - which have really good results on 5,6F, it wont give me 1:1 but its not always necessary

QUESTION 1: not sure how many light I will lost and how I should work with aparture when the tube is on the body? I am not 100% sure how this work.

for example if I will use 50mm 1,8 and I want to use aparture 5,6 I will set it just like that on my camera? (simply it will not let me choose for example 1,8 or 1,8F will be suddenly something else but I will not find what exactly?)

QUESTION 2: How to count magnification. check my assumption pls. I have 25mm of tubes + 50mm lens (should I count 50 mm or 75mm for cropped sensor?). If I should use uncropped number - 50mm. I will have 0,5x (25/50) more magnification which I will just add to actual magnification. (lets say that current magnification is 0,15). In total it would be 0,15 + 0,5 = 0,65x total magnification (so better than 1:2)

2) I will buy also Sigma 60mm (which I will occasionally use it with extension tubes, but mostly it wont be even required for my purpose). I just wanted macro lens, because its most of the time best choice for edge to edge sharpness and its just not a true for "sony 30mm". But there is easy workaround with sigma lens which is really great for that.

3) so the last thing is still opened. Sony 30mm macro lens for only 160 Euro :-D (its simply too cheap to not buy that too :-D :-D :-D)

I think about advantages which it will give me compared to my lenses paired with tubes? I believe that it can give me pretty fast autofocus, which could be probably very useful? Am I right?

Simply what can be "good reason" to get it too for that low price?

 

[nin2thevoid]

- This should give me more than 1:1 with set lens when used on 16mm

Your working distance will be horribly small. If that's OK (e.g. shooting coins from a suspended camera) then by all means try it. Experiment with the different FL's to find out at what focus distance and FL your lens is sharpest. Shoot through the entire FL range and use close, mid and far focus for each FL. Then compare the shots.

You may get better results by cropping something that's smaller than 1:1.

- I will also try it with my 50mm 1,8 oss lens - which have really good results on 5,6F, it wont give me 1:1 but its not always necessary

It is a great lens on itself. Not sure how well it responds to extension tubes.

QUESTION 1: not sure how many light I will lost and how I should work with aparture when the tube is on the body? I am not 100% sure how this work.

for example if I will use 50mm 1,8 and I want to use aparture 5,6 I will set it just like that on my camera? (simply it will not let me choose for example 1,8 or 1,8F will be suddenly something else but I will not find what exactly?)

Aperture setting remains the same. It's a measure for the lens opening, not the amount of light gathered (indirectly yes, directly no). Your camera will measure the light on the sensor deduce an EV using the exposure metering. Your camera will compensate for loss of light by upping the shutter speed and or ISO until it reaches the light level it's calibrated to compensate for (18% grey usually).

QUESTION 2: How to count magnification. check my assumption pls. I have 25mm of tubes + 50mm lens (should I count 50 mm or 75mm for cropped sensor?). If I should use uncropped number - 50mm. I will have 0,5x (25/50) more magnification which I will just add to actual magnification. (lets say that current magnification is 0,15). In total it would be 0,15 + 0,5 = 0,65x total magnification (so better than 1:2)

Correct.

2) I will buy also Sigma 60mm (which I will occasionally use it with extension tubes, but mostly it wont be even required for my purpose). I just wanted macro lens, because its most of the time best choice for edge to edge sharpness and its just not a true for "sony 30mm". But there is easy workaround with sigma lens which is really great for that.

3) so the last thing is still opened. Sony 30mm macro lens for only 160 Euro :-D (its simply too cheap to not buy that too :-D :-D :-D)

If your priority is sharp macro's, the 30mm is probably best. Unless you shoot dollar bills or something similar you may not need perfectly sharp corners. The 30mm is so much sharper than the 16-50 with extension tubes, you'd be amazed to see the difference. There's a comparison on this forum somewhere, look for it.

I think about advantages which it will give me compared to my lenses paired with tubes? I believe that it can give me pretty fast autofocus, which could be probably very useful? Am I right?

The Sigma autofocuses just fine, but there's only continuous focus in the center.

Simply what can be "good reason" to get it too for that low price?

It's a real macro lens. It performs like a real macro lens. Except, it's got a very short working distance (because 30mm). If it would be over 60mm it would be loved by a lot more people, and probably have better corner sharpness as well.

 

[nandbytes]

minolta 50mm f/2.8 macro is really sharp and cheap. If in future you own an LA-EA4, it'll even AF.

 

[pegelli]

Hi everyone,

I just want to mention that I came up with solution of my problem.

1) I bought extension tubes (viltrox - I hope that this wont be dissaster because it cost only 30 dollars on deal extreme)

- This should give me more than 1:1 with set lens when used on 16mm

But I doubt the quality will be very good (resolution and distortion), so I'm eagerly awaiting your test results to prove me wrong

- I will also try it with my 50mm 1,8 oss lens - which have really good results on 5,6F, it wont give me 1:1 but its not always necessary

Another set of test results I would very much appreciate

QUESTION 1: not sure how many light I will lost and how I should work with aparture when the tube is on the body? I am not 100% sure how this work.

for example if I will use 50mm 1,8 and I want to use aparture 5,6 I will set it just like that on my camera? (simply it will not let me choose for example 1,8 or 1,8F will be suddenly something else but I will not find what exactly?)

The light loss created by the longer extension will automatically compensated by the camera, which measures the shutter speed needed for the amount of light reaching the sensor.

QUESTION 2: How to count magnification. check my assumption pls. I have 25mm of tubes + 50mm lens (should I count 50 mm or 75mm for cropped sensor?). If I should use uncropped number - 50mm. I will have 0,5x (25/50) more magnification which I will just add to actual magnification. (lets say that current magnification is 0,15). In total it would be 0,15 + 0,5 = 0,65x total magnification (so better than 1:2)

If you scroll down on this pageyou get all kind of formulas as well as a calculator to make these kind of calculations.

2) I will buy also Sigma 60mm (which I will occasionally use it with extension tubes, but mostly it wont be even required for my purpose). I just wanted macro lens, because its most of the time best choice for edge to edge sharpness and its just not a true for "sony 30mm". But there is easy workaround with sigma lens which is really great for that.

Another one I would be interested to see the test with the extension tubes

3) so the last thing is still opened. Sony 30mm macro lens for only 160 Euro :-D (its simply too cheap to not buy that too :-D :-D :-D)

Because if you don't want to use it for macro the Sigma 30/2.8 is a better lens (more light and sharper)

I think about advantages which it will give me compared to my lenses paired with tubes? I believe that it can give me pretty fast autofocus, which could be probably very useful? Am I right?

I find autofocus for macro pretty limited. The focus spot is always in the wrong spot so I much prefer manual focus for that.

Simply what can be "good reason" to get it too for that low price?

 

[antarian]

one more question regarding to aparture.

Normally 50mm 1,8 will give me best sharp result at around F5,6 or maybe F8.

Does it mean that I will normally set F5,6 or F8 and at this aparture I will get best result as without extension tubes? Or does it change somehow with extension tubes that basically if I will set it at for example F8 it will behave like I will set the aparture at F10 for example

I know that stupid question, but I am really not an expert in this so thats why I am asking :-D

 

[antarian]

It will take some time to test :-D

7-10 business days to deliver that but it was 20 dollars cheaper than in local shop. I should buy that for more :-D tight now I will need to wait sooo sooo long :-D

 

[nin2thevoid]

one more question regarding to aparture.

Normally 50mm 1,8 will give me best sharp result at around F5,6 or maybe F8.

Normally yes, but with macro, you are generally less concerned with absolute performance of the lens than with having everything you want in focus. The depth of field is a function of focus distance and focal length. Ergo, if you focus very closely with a long FL lens, you will have very little depth of field and you will experience the need to increase the F stop in many situations. If I shoot a bee with a Sigma 60 with a few tubes, F/11 is where I start to get wing-to-wing sharpness. F/16 might be required even.

Perpendicularly shooting coins, you will need far less depth of field so you can open the aperture.

Does it mean that I will normally set F5,6 or F8 and at this aparture I will get best result as without extension tubes? Or does it change somehow with extension tubes that basically if I will set it at for example F8 it will behave like I will set the aparture at F10 for example

Good question. I am by no means an expert either, but ... f/5.6 is f/5.6. A diaphragm with a hole (aperture), the hole having a diameter of your focal length (50mm) divided by 5.6. Light passes through the aperture. The smaller the aperture, the more diverging and converging rays are blocked, so the less blur will occur on objects that are in front of or behind your focus plane. The focus group is the part that has to correct for your extension tubes, since it has to correct for a longer flange distance (distance from lens to sensor).

As far as I can see at this point, supposing you keep your F stop the same as without tubes:

- Your depth of field remains identical

- You will need a longer shutter speed to correct for loss of light, resulting from increasing the flange distance. Doesn't make your image less sharp, just darker.

- You may see that the entire image becomes less sharp across the frame due to the focus group not being designed for such a flange distance. Try getting closer and focussing closer, if this happens (or the opposite, focus further away).

- Again, macro is about light. You will lose some with the tubes. You will lose more by the often mandatory small aperture.

I know that stupid question, but I am really not an expert in this so thats why I am asking :-D

Neither am I and it is not a stupid question, only for stupid people who only know the answer but don't care why that answer is correct

 

[viperkeeper]

I did those tests for you but like true fashion I took a hundred pictures of a nail in a board and now don't know what ones to share. Anyways the 55mm on 26mm of tubes gave me about 1:1.75 the 55mm minimum focusing distance is like 5" more than the 50mm so I'd think the 50mm would be of a greater magnification. Comparing it side by side with the Venus set at 1:1.75 I really can't tell a difference shooting in natural light on didn't even notice any loss of light. On auto ISO on the same subject my ISO was bouncing around between 500-800 on both lenses so the difference between the two lenses is a fraction of a stop. The 55mm is much lighter too as would be the 50mm I assume. The real issue is the area of focus the 55mm is set using tubes so say 1:1.75 to 1:4(guess) so if your taking pictures of bees and see a butterfly unless you want a head shot you need to change tubes. The Venus is superior as a macro in every way but later when I went out shooting I couldn't help but think of the benefits of size and weight of just carrying tubes over a macro lens. New to macro the tubes are better because of the electronic connections with a manual lens you're shooting in the dark as the aperture doesn't open automatically to aid in focus. For your use I really see little if any downsides to tubes. I attached some shots taken with the 60mm now these are just screen shots off my Instagram @professor_pouncey so no pixel peeping.

 

[antarian]

thanks a lot, your post was very informative and it explain me some unanswered points.

Maybe another question ... I am looking for some led ring, but I cant find anything what will be usable for

16-50mm set lens 40,5mm filter and maybe strange one)

sigma 60mm 2,8 46mm filter

sony 50mm 1,8 49mm filter

sony 30mm 3,5 49mm filter

did anyone seen something what can be used? I seen a lot of great led rings for nikon - for example this will probably work:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Neewer-MRC-...=UTF8&qid=1439558080&sr=8-1&keywords=MRC-80FV

but there are just missing adapters for sony E lenses:-(

 

[antarian]

thanks a lot for this shots and all that description ...

btw that shots look amazing ...

Whenever I see photos like this I simply want to start with that and simply try something new, because until now ... I always shot just things like this...

http://www.photopost.cz/foto/287513.htm?aut=15256

http://www.photopost.cz/foto/428641.htm?aut=15256

http://www.photopost.cz/foto/286457.htm?aut=15256

http://www.photopost.cz/foto/279813.htm?aut=15256

http://www.photopost.cz/foto/270947.htm?aut=15256

http://www.photopost.cz/foto/211617.htm?aut=15256

http://www.photopost.cz/foto/257855.htm?aut=15256

http://www.photopost.cz/foto/286461.htm?aut=15256

etc... simply people and ... let say portraits :-D everything is basically same :-D so I simply need to change that and start with somthing new.

I even never used a flash, I always shot only on daylight, because I loved that But it seems that for example for macro photography the LED flash will be huge advantage.

I even ordered that "octopus tripod, because it looks easiest to use for me and pretty inexpensive for start

What will you advice me to buy?

tripod (I already did it)

flash LED ring? or anything else?

thanks a lot for advices

 

[viperkeeper]

Ring Leds have advantages and disadvantages. They mount on the end of the lens via the filter treads and come with different sizes. So if there's not a 49mm in the kit there's probably a 58mm and then you get a step down ring. This is the same for all lens/cameras the kits are universal for ring lights. I have the http://www.amazon.com/Aputure-Amaran-HN100-Flash-Camera/dp/B00IVBK2KI it's bright and a high CRI (Color Rendition Index) for your use with a tripod it might work very well. I really only use it for video, to add in focusing and some trick off camera lighting. The problem is LEDs are a continuous light source and follow rules of continuous not rules of speedlight like a normal flash. You can get a ringlight that uses speedlight but cost more and the same issue as the leds it puts a terrible reflection on some surfaces like eyes. Remember the story is in the shadows so it's better to control shadows than eliminate them. With the exception of my eye picture all those pictures are using controlled shadows. In my opinion you'll learn more and become better using an external flash and diffusers. The Yangnuo YN-560IV would be a good start and similar cost to a led ringlight