4K! 4K! A survey

[jkoch2]

Every photography site I read these days always mentions 4k. But how many of us here are really video oriented? If you are not busy perhaps you can tell us in which group do you think you belong.

a. 85-100% video guy. That is that whenever pick up your camera shooting short scenes or snippets is the first that comes to your mind. And in video projects you are involved from the conceptualization down to the finish product.

There are no 100% video people. That is meaningless.

Most video derives half or more its satisfaction from the audio or narrative. Another 25% depends on the editing. That leaves 20% dependent on the subject and talent. A measily 5% is left over for the camera guy, gear, and his petty delusions.

In the tiny, wormy realm of the 5%, 4k really is a big thing, though, because it allows one to do something that still photographers take for granted: crop.

However, even if 4k helps offset a tiny portion of the handicap faced by "good" video, a vast difference will forever remain. It's this: any dope (even you and I) can eventually take a still photo that will coax five second glance and a flimsy compliment from a stranger, even if only:

Nice picture. You must have an expensive camera.

Cute. Ain't my kids (or cat) the greatest?

Oh. I've been there. Well before you. And I saw much prettier things, scored better, etc.

Your technique is improving. Too much post-processing and noise reduction, though.

Meanwhile, if a video retains attention for any longer than 5 seconds, the top compliment is likely to be something like this:

Hey. Nice music. Where'd you download the recording?

 

[CreeDo]

Is it ok if I am 0% video because I am mostly interested in photography? Or do I have to be a bigot who hates video?

 

[Mahmoud Mousef]

In my photography I'm 0% video because I've only got a 40D but I own several video cameras, not
dslrs. Video is really a team effort with a crew of at least two. Then editing, grading/developing,
audio, titling, effects, repair, storage systems and backup. Then you need a theme or story that can last at least 10 mins. Time gets away if you want to work commercially.

not sure why you place so much 'work' on video; lots of people shoot short videos along with their photos to tell a story better or capture sounds and conversation or the movement of a place. They are saved just like photos - digitally. Often with no editing, grading/developing, often with audio that doesn't need to be touched, no titling, no effects. Storage and back-up is the same with stills. The theme or story can be a simple snippet of blowing out birthday candles or a funny conversation or little dance that will be remembered forever. Time gets away from anyone when working commercially but how is taking photos any different? Not sure why things need to be so much of a chore with video. They can be as casual as taking any photo & as short as you please.

 

[Mahmoud Mousef]

0% video. Nothing against it at all, other than both any videos I have tried to make and any other amateur videos I have been forced to watch completely suck.

It's my opinion that many buy these devices with good intentions only to realise that making a good video is hard. Really hard. And while most of us can get a decent still shot occasionally on the infinite number of monkeys with typewriters principle I don't believe this is the case with video. Not without some skill and a lot of training.

I am not sure I get this. Example: I want to record some funny conversation of the nieces or nephews. I have a camera in hand. I start recording a video instead of taking stills. It is captured forever. I don't need to be a Hollywood director. I can be as casual as I please. I don't have to be judged by the self-serving Academy. It is extremely useful.

I am also of the opinion that most manufacturers put video in as a feature, not because most are going to use it, but because it's now expected and a tick on the specification sheet. It will be a brave manufacturer that decides to leave it off but it might just start a trend? Perhaps we shall see that with the rumoured 5DS?

Not having the option to record video in a camera is nonsense & can only mean commercial failure to a mass-market product in today's camera market. I think that's for good reason; doing video in a camera is so natural and wanted. We get it with phones. We get it with actual video cameras now (stills and video on the one device). And we get it with cameras of all types, from entry-level to advanced. To exclude it for the sake of satisfying the few who don't use it would be nonsense in my opinion.

 

[meland]

0% video. Nothing against it at all, other than both any videos I have tried to make and any other amateur videos I have been forced to watch completely suck.

It's my opinion that many buy these devices with good intentions only to realise that making a good video is hard. Really hard. And while most of us can get a decent still shot occasionally on the infinite number of monkeys with typewriters principle I don't believe this is the case with video. Not without some skill and a lot of training.

I am not sure I get this. Example: I want to record some funny conversation of the nieces or nephews. I have a camera in hand. I start recording a video instead of taking stills. It is captured forever. I don't need to be a Hollywood director. I can be as casual as I please. I don't have to be jdged by the self-serving Academy. It is extremely useful.

I entirely get your particular usage and I am sure that there are many who use video as a kind of video note in this way. Perfectly understandable. But for this you probably don't need Raw video footage or many of the technical features that many claim they do. In fact if you are not going to spend time editing, those things are arguably a complete waste.

I am also of the opinion that most manufacturers put video in as a feature, not because most are going to use it, but because it's now expected and a tick on the specification sheet. It will be a brave manufacturer that decides to leave it off but it might just start a trend? Perhaps we shall see that with the rumoured 5DS?

Not having the option to record video in a camera is nonsense & can only mean commercial failure to a mass-market product in today's camera market. I think that's for good reason; doing video in a camera is so natural and wanted. We get it with phones. We get it with actual video cameras now (stills and video on the one device). And we get it with cameras of all types, from entry-level to advanced. To exclude it for the sake of satisfying the few who don't use it would be nonsense in my opinion.

I think many consumer products can only benefit by having some kind of video facility. But to criticise certain fairly low end products because they don't have 4K at this stage for example does seem a little strange (and I'm not implying that you are by the way). Perhaps some people are worried about 'future proofing' but even that's a bit odd if they are never going to use it anyway.

With regards to a product like the 5S I really can't see that many prospective purchasers will care if it has video or not. It's probably not the sort of product where many will want it for short clips of the kids. But I'm happy to be proved wrong.

 

[richiebee]

Every photography site I read these days always mentions 4k. But how many of us here are really video oriented? If you are not busy perhaps you can tell us in which group do you think you belong.

a. 85-100% video guy. That is that whenever pick up your camera shooting short scenes or snippets is the first that comes to your mind. And in video projects you are involved from the conceptualization down to the finish product.

b. 50-85% video guy. You are honing your video skills because every now and then you might be asked to do video work for corporate functions and in documenting projects. But you are not always involved in the editing process. When you pick up your camera its 50-50 for both stills and video.

c. 30-50% video guy. You are a stills photographer who knows the strengths and limits of your medium. You don’t think of video when you pick up your camera but you probably went back to a place where you took some stills before to capture it in video. You won’t say no if you are asked to video community functions or a friend’s birthday party. Actually you like video but it’s not your priority. You probably don’t like editing videos.

d. 15-30% video guy. You are happy and proud of your photographs but you keep your videos to yourself as they are but clumsy private mementos that only you can appreciate.

e. 1-15% video guy. You dream and plan of doing videos but you often end up just capturing stills because when you get excited you simply forget doing videos.

f. 0% video guy. You are a hardcore photographer who probably still have a dozen film cameras that you use occasionally. You probably are a bigot who wants to scream at the top of your lungs –“video sucks!” when no one is around.

None of the above. I shoot video with a video camera (for work). I don't use my DSLR for video. But I don't own any film cameras, and I don't think video sucks.

 

[Mahmoud Mousef]

I entirely get your particular usage and I am sure that there are many who use video as a kind of video note in this way. Perfectly understandable. But for this you probably don't need Raw video footage or many of the technical features that many claim they do. In fact if you are not going to spend time editing, those things are arguably a complete waste.

yes

I think many consumer products can only benefit by having some kind of video facility. But to criticise certain fairly low end products because they don't have 4K at this stage for example does seem a little strange (and I'm not implying that you are by the way). Perhaps some people are worried about 'future proofing' but even that's a bit odd if they are never going to use it anyway.

yes

With regards to a product like the 5S I really can't see that many prospective purchasers will care if it has video or not. It's probably not the sort of product where many will want it for short clips of the kids. But I'm happy to be proved wrong.

They don't have to want it for short clips of the kids (or maybe they do). It could be for higher-end tasks. DSLR users also do serious video. If not, even for the sake of convenience if nothing else. Plus any manufacturer must look at what their competitors are doing. Is Brand X offering video? We must have it too, in order to not miss out on sales. If I were running a camera company I'd consider it financial suicide to not have some sort of video integrated in the device. What would be the main reason not to include it? I can't see many benefits to the manufacturer (slight cost reductions) and I see a whole lot of negatives (missing out on sales).

 

[meland]

I entirely get your particular usage and I am sure that there are many who use video as a kind of video note in this way. Perfectly understandable. But for this you probably don't need Raw video footage or many of the technical features that many claim they do. In fact if you are not going to spend time editing, those things are arguably a complete waste.

yes

I think many consumer products can only benefit by having some kind of video facility. But to criticise certain fairly low end products because they don't have 4K at this stage for example does seem a little strange (and I'm not implying that you are by the way). Perhaps some people are worried about 'future proofing' but even that's a bit odd if they are never going to use it anyway.

yes

With regards to a product like the 5S I really can't see that many prospective purchasers will care if it has video or not. It's probably not the sort of product where many will want it for short clips of the kids. But I'm happy to be proved wrong.

They don't have to want it for short clips of the kids (or maybe they do). It could be for higher-end tasks. DSLR users also do serious video. If not, even for the sake of convenience if nothing else. Plus any manufacturer must look at what their competitors are doing. Is Brand X offering video? We must have it too, in order to not miss out on sales. If I were running a camera company I'd consider it financial suicide to not have some sort of video integrated in the device. What would be the main reason not to include it? I can't see many benefits to the manufacturer (slight cost reductions) and I see a whole lot of negatives (missing out on sales).

It could be for higher end tasks of course. But I do feel that people who are seriously doing video aren't prepared to accept the compromises (mainly handling issues) forced on them by using a still camera rather than a camera primarily designed for video.

Now there's talk about budget film makers who can't afford dedicated video cameras and I can understand that - but is this now a significant market? So much so that virtually every still camera has to have a video facility? Hmmm.

I do agree with you it would now doom many products to oblivion by not having video included but not because most really want it but because they think they might. Lack of specification fear, if you understand my drift.

Now reasons for not having it could include compromisation of the sensor / processing to enable it to run video; cooling issues; and indeed handling issues just to satisfy the odd occasion video might be used.

Anyway I think 5Ds might be a change of sorts (if it doesn't have video which seems likely). A return to a stills only camera designed specifically only for stills users?

 

[Mahmoud Mousef]

I do agree with you it would now doom many products to oblivion by not having video included but not because most really want it but because they think they might. Lack of specification fear, if you understand my drift.

OK

Now reasons for not having it could include compromisation of the sensor / processing to enable it to run video;

is anything compromised though? have we seen 2 cameras, one with video and one without, where the video-less model is better because it doesn't have video?

cooling issues; and indeed handling issues just to satisfy the odd occasion video might be used.

some people prefer the handling of a regular camera when doing video plus the convenience of having it in the one device is priceless. Cooling can be an issue with some products but I wouldn't imagine it's a big issue except with higher-end gear and codecs. With 4K things might be hotter; I have no idea and haven't read much about it. 1080p using standard codecs is pretty refined now.

Anyway I think 5Ds might be a change of sorts (if it doesn't have video which seems likely).

that's interesting; I haven't read about it but that would be very surprising to me. There is a lot of crossover with video and the 2 (stills and video) complement each other well. If it's missing I'd like to think it would be for a technical reason.

A return to a stills only camera designed specifically only for stills users?

again, I don't really get why; video doesn't really 'intrude' on the handling of a stills camera. Some may prefer different handling when doing video but it doesn't really change the design of a regular camera at all and it's one of the best examples of convergence I can think of.

 

[BertIverson]

Does the human eye/brain actually perceive 4K video to be better than 1K (1920x1080) ?
I am convinced that still photos look better on 4K monitor viewed up close.
However, I am not convinced that 4K 60p video on a 60" TV viewed from 4 meters will be noticeably better 1K 60p
(I suspect that the designers of 1K TV put a lot of thought/research into how much resolution a 60" TV needs)

Not stating a fact -- just food for thought
Bert

 

[AdSR]

I prefer photos because I can hang the prints on the wall and contemplate them.

 

[pavi1]

Does making a video of Super Bowl half time as displayed on my home theater count?

 

[RedFox88]

Why didn't you post your thread as a poll instead of a standard post? It makes voting easy and tabulated answers for you.

 

[jonrobertp]

Every photography site I read these days always mentions 4k. But how many of us here are really video oriented? If you are not busy perhaps you can tell us in which group do you think you belong.

a. 85-100% video guy. That is that whenever pick up your camera shooting short scenes or snippets is the first that comes to your mind. And in video projects you are involved from the conceptualization down to the finish product.

b. 50-85% video guy. You are honing your video skills because every now and then you might be asked to do video work for corporate functions and in documenting projects. But you are not always involved in the editing process. When you pick up your camera its 50-50 for both stills and video.

c. 30-50% video guy. You are a stills photographer who knows the strengths and limits of your medium. You don’t think of video when you pick up your camera but you probably went back to a place where you took some stills before to capture it in video. You won’t say no if you are asked to video community functions or a friend’s birthday party. Actually you like video but it’s not your priority. You probably don’t like editing videos.

d. 15-30% video guy. You are happy and proud of your photographs but you keep your videos to yourself as they are but clumsy private mementos that only you can appreciate.

e. 1-15% video guy. You dream and plan of doing videos but you often end up just capturing stills because when you get excited you simply forget doing videos.

f. 0% video guy. You are a hardcore photographer who probably still have a dozen film cameras that you use occasionally. You probably are a bigot who wants to scream at the top of your lungs –“video sucks!” when no one is around.

 

[tko]

So tell me. If you were just having fun, why didn't you add a caricature of the 100% videographer as well as the 0% videographer? But no problem to whip one up for you to make your poll complete, happy to help.

F. 100% video guy on the wrong forum. Likes to insult photographers with stupid polls. Thinks video will take over the world. Has never heard of super 8, but thinks everyone will want to see his home videos staring his children or friends. Can take a photo every once and a while when he presses the wrong button, but can't figure out what to do with it. Convinced once we have high enough quality video, you can just record and extract what you need later. Can't take good photos, but is convinced his videos will miraculously become wonderful because video is Really Cool. Insists on thinking video is the highest art form, despite the fact that the highest ranking videos in the world usually involve a cat, a blender, and a bikini, as taken by a cell phone.

 

[pew pew]

Video is fine for videographers. I am a photographer and as such...rarely use it. There's not much art in aiming a video cam and recording movement.

Same could be said about photography..

 

[Arne Saknussemm]

Not sure why things need to be so much of a chore with video. They can be as casual as taking any photo & as short as you please.

They can be.

But it is my observation that hoisting a disconnected series of un-edited "video-clips" on any audience that lacks strong "secondary motivation" to devote their time to viewing them is much worse than doing the same with still photographs. Observing and judging the acceptance of, and reaction to their creative effort is a critical skill for any author. I propose that if such skill was not in great deficit, many fewer video-clips would be shown to the suffering public.

This is not specific to the digital age: I remember people that would patiently sit through almost any old "slide show from our Mediterranean vacation", but would quickly remember an important business appointment on the first sign of unpacking of the super-8 projector.

Arne

 

[Mahmoud Mousef]

This is not specific to the digital age: I remember people that would patiently sit through almost any old "slide show from our Mediterranean vacation", but would quickly remember an important business appointment on the first sign of unpacking of the super-8 projector.

Arne

Hah!

I try not to subject anyone to this sort of thing. I can understand it's not everyone's cup of tea. Unless something really interesting or funny happens (or an event needs to be recalled years later when everyone has changed)...my videos are basically kept in storage & don't come out unless someone wants to see them. That someone is often just me!

 

[tbcass]

There's not much art in aiming a camera at something and freezing the moment. Your statement only reveals you're making excuses for your lack of skills in doing video.

 

[Osvaldo Cristo]

Although sometimes I can appreciate to watch a good video, I never had even a minimum interest to make them, except for a very few times where I had interest on time elapsed one... but I never do them.

Thanks, I have no interest on making videos.

Actually I really would like my Nikon D810 and D300S had no video features...

All the best,

--
O.Cristo - An Amateur Photographer
Opinions of men are almost as various as their faces - so many men so many minds. B. Franklin