d750 users with reflection problem?

[3sgilbert]

Agreed and u have the FN assigned to 1.2x anyway and that knocks it out period.... ( I used that on the 800e when file size is an issue or I want that Xtra fps)
--
Shawn

 

[helltormentor]

Latest post on fredmiranda.com stated that a d700 user with a 85mm 1.8 lens has also experienced this "problem". With that, I think it's time for me to order a D750!!!

And 6D owners, and XT1 owners, and D810 owners, and 5D owners, and NEX owners ... the list goes on.

Some people will say, "Yes, but the 750 is MORE prone!", and I don't know how you can possibly determine that. What I know is that most people in these threads have said, "I've never seen it in my photos, but I can make it happen, and now I'm worried, because I've seen those four wedding photos and a couple shots of kids on a trampoline." I also know that people with other cameras were able to say, "oh, hey, yeah, that's veiling flare (or whatever they call it), here's me doing it on my [insert camera here]."

As a 750 owner, I've tried to contribute my n=1 observations when asked, but it's getting a little ridiculous. It's going to happen on every 750, but it's probably also going to happen on every 810, every 6D, every XT1 ... you get the idea.

If you want a perfect camera, be prepared to wait forever. They don't exist. Name me a camera sold today, and I (or the poster right after me) can name an "existential" problem with that model.

If you want one, buy one. This "problem" is almost certainly never going to be officially recognized, and it certainly won't be fixed. Nor should it be, honestly. It seems like a problem with all cameras. People have gotten a little hysterical on this forum.

Allow me to disagree with your statement "Some people will say, "Yes, but the 750 is MORE prone!", and I don't know how you can possibly determine that" . Isn't it enough that this problem was discovered by people shooting real world applications with this camera? The other application you are referring to (kids on a trampoline) is quite noteworthy. The photographer has one kid on his left arm shooting the other kid with his right hand and 6.7% of shots show this banding, does it look low percentage to you? He didn't try to duplicate it (How could he? just look at the shots for yourself). I think this issue is more serious than the oil/dust problem on the D600.

I had this camera and I had to return it with reservations because the camera was a joy to shoot with. I cannot even choose another DSLR because I find them all somewhat inferior to the D750. It all boiles down to the one's style of photography. If you mostly shoot concerts (like me) and weddings or back lit scenes, this camera might ruin your moment because you always have to chimp or worry about banding which prevents you from becoming part of the event you're taking shot of.

As I said, this might not be an issue at all for a person who shoots in the studio, for instance but please do not try to lessen the severity of the issue.

 

[helltormentor]

a group of wedding shooters well versed in Nikon immediately noticed it in real world usage.....

That's not what happened. This was "discovered" in late November. The camera launched months before. Ross Harvey didn't notice it. DigitalRev didn't notice it. TCSTV didn't notice it. Ming Thein didn't notice it. A couple people stumbled upon it. It's misleading to say it was "immediately noticed." It wasn't. Tens of thousands of people shot their D750 for months without noticing it.

from my limited research in examples ive seen ( which have all been stills not video ) cameras other than the D750 where it showed up seemed on average to be much less pronounced ( be it naturally or the fact everyone is looking to illustrate the issue ) and the banding more gradient and much less harsh.....

I don't know about that. It looks "worse" to me on the NEX, on the Fuji, on the 5DII; it looks about as "bad" on the 6D. It's subjective. Regardless of how "good" or "bad" the flair looks, though, doesn't it sort of ruin a photo regardless? If the worry really is about the practical impact - people keep shouting, "It could ruin my engagement shoot!" - does it matter if you have a really noticeable black band across the bride-to-be's face, or a 20% less noticeable black band across the bride-to-be's face? Isn't the photo ruined regardless?

The point of my thread was to find out if any of those this effects did in fact get any remedy by either replacing or sending it in for repair.....

No.

The most likely outcome is that the new design of the d750 does indeed lead it to be more prone to the discovered phenomenon however its probably existent ( especially in the form of scatter ) to some point in all DSLR's....

Yes.

Dont shoot the messengers folks, IF they are wrong and even if it IS paranoia or herd mentality, YOU the consumer can only benefit from it......Try not to attach yourself emotionally to your "tools" and pic "teams" leave an open mind WE are here to support one another and if WE dont do that TEAM CONSUMER will certainly lose to TEAM CORPORATION for those that just have to pic a side.....

Absolutely, and no one is more skeptical of our corporatocracy than I am. But this isn't the case here. It's paranoia. Your D750 will be able to do this. It might even ruin a photo! But what's the alternative? All cameras have issues, many have this particular issue. It's simply not worth beating it around further.

You know what, thats FINE then man UNLESS they release a d760 that fixes it and devalues my D750 prematurely as they did with my d800e and d600.......especially if Im not directly impacted by the aforementioned phenomena, would it be better for us to beat the drums loud and clear to force a response now? ala d600 shutter mechanism free replacement ( maybe they can retrofit something in the mirror box for those than NEED it, not saying I particularly fall in this category )...its US against them and without these guys pouring over these cameras few of the issues would be as widely known and definitely not addressed...In fact when you call into ELITE IKON..without being able to direct the conversation back here using the techniques and discussions from these members so often maligned for reporting "issues" it would be HARDER to prove and process a support claim.....

It really upsets me when people attack whistleblowers because of emotional attachment to a brand or mental detachment from a problem thats not readily observable by them based on how they use their camera or the luck of the draw on model runs....

 

[helltormentor]

Oh, get off your soapbox, preaching against fanboi. This is a problem with cameras with mirror boxes, not Nikons, it is the nature of the beast. One of the first things a photographer should learn is caution when shooting bright lights. The D600 was a real issue. This isn't.

It reminds me of when I read "A photographer should learn how to clean the sensor, dirty sensor is not an issue, it is an inherent part of photography" D600 Nostalgia.

 

[3sgilbert]

Exactly and exactly.....
We should all be predisposed to support each other and JUMP ON NIKON especially given their recent track record THEN have NIKON PROVE it's NOT an issue....in a sane world....
--
Shawn

 

[NJani]

For those who want to see a real world sample of this phenomenon. Imagine this with bright sun.



View: original size

--
Cheers János

 

[sgoldswo]

a group of wedding shooters well versed in Nikon immediately noticed it in real world usage.....

That's not what happened. This was "discovered" in late November. The camera launched months before. Ross Harvey didn't notice it. DigitalRev didn't notice it. TCSTV didn't notice it. Ming Thein didn't notice it. A couple people stumbled upon it. It's misleading to say it was "immediately noticed." It wasn't. Tens of thousands of people shot their D750 for months without noticing it.

from my limited research in examples ive seen ( which have all been stills not video ) cameras other than the D750 where it showed up seemed on average to be much less pronounced ( be it naturally or the fact everyone is looking to illustrate the issue ) and the banding more gradient and much less harsh.....

I don't know about that. It looks "worse" to me on the NEX, on the Fuji, on the 5DII; it looks about as "bad" on the 6D. It's subjective. Regardless of how "good" or "bad" the flair looks, though, doesn't it sort of ruin a photo regardless? If the worry really is about the practical impact - people keep shouting, "It could ruin my engagement shoot!" - does it matter if you have a really noticeable black band across the bride-to-be's face, or a 20% less noticeable black band across the bride-to-be's face? Isn't the photo ruined regardless?

The point of my thread was to find out if any of those this effects did in fact get any remedy by either replacing or sending it in for repair.....

No.

The most likely outcome is that the new design of the d750 does indeed lead it to be more prone to the discovered phenomenon however its probably existent ( especially in the form of scatter ) to some point in all DSLR's....

Yes.

Dont shoot the messengers folks, IF they are wrong and even if it IS paranoia or herd mentality, YOU the consumer can only benefit from it......Try not to attach yourself emotionally to your "tools" and pic "teams" leave an open mind WE are here to support one another and if WE dont do that TEAM CONSUMER will certainly lose to TEAM CORPORATION for those that just have to pic a side.....

Absolutely, and no one is more skeptical of our corporatocracy than I am. But this isn't the case here. It's paranoia. Your D750 will be able to do this. It might even ruin a photo! But what's the alternative? All cameras have issues, many have this particular issue. It's simply not worth beating it around further.

You know what, thats FINE then man UNLESS they release a d760 that fixes it and devalues my D750 prematurely as they did with my d800e and d600.......especially if Im not directly impacted by the aforementioned phenomena, would it be better for us to beat the drums loud and clear to force a response now? ala d600 shutter mechanism free replacement ( maybe they can retrofit something in the mirror box for those than NEED it, not saying I particularly fall in this category )...its US against them and without these guys pouring over these cameras few of the issues would be as widely known and definitely not addressed...In fact when you call into ELITE IKON..without being able to direct the conversation back here using the techniques and discussions from these members so often maligned for reporting "issues" it would be HARDER to prove and process a support claim.....

It really upsets me when people attack whistleblowers because of emotional attachment to a brand or mental detachment from a problem thats not readily observable by them based on how they use their camera or the luck of the draw on model runs....

 

[Nexu1]

You are really intense about this flare band aren't you? IMO you should just return your camera if you are this paranoid. It is obvious that it's consuming everything you do and you won't be happy with this worry hanging over your shoulders. Otherwise, if your gallery represents your typical shooting it's likely you will never see this issue on a real picture.

 

[sgoldswo]

I can tell you I've shot many thousands of frames into the sun and not seen this effect, but given this issue distresses you so much it's very obvious this camera isn't for you. Return it and get something that doesn't freak you out.

For those who want to see a real world sample of this phenomenon. Imagine this with bright sun.

View: original size

 

[helltormentor]

a group of wedding shooters well versed in Nikon immediately noticed it in real world usage.....

That's not what happened. This was "discovered" in late November. The camera launched months before. Ross Harvey didn't notice it. DigitalRev didn't notice it. TCSTV didn't notice it. Ming Thein didn't notice it. A couple people stumbled upon it. It's misleading to say it was "immediately noticed." It wasn't. Tens of thousands of people shot their D750 for months without noticing it.

from my limited research in examples ive seen ( which have all been stills not video ) cameras other than the D750 where it showed up seemed on average to be much less pronounced ( be it naturally or the fact everyone is looking to illustrate the issue ) and the banding more gradient and much less harsh.....

I don't know about that. It looks "worse" to me on the NEX, on the Fuji, on the 5DII; it looks about as "bad" on the 6D. It's subjective. Regardless of how "good" or "bad" the flair looks, though, doesn't it sort of ruin a photo regardless? If the worry really is about the practical impact - people keep shouting, "It could ruin my engagement shoot!" - does it matter if you have a really noticeable black band across the bride-to-be's face, or a 20% less noticeable black band across the bride-to-be's face? Isn't the photo ruined regardless?

The point of my thread was to find out if any of those this effects did in fact get any remedy by either replacing or sending it in for repair.....

No.

The most likely outcome is that the new design of the d750 does indeed lead it to be more prone to the discovered phenomenon however its probably existent ( especially in the form of scatter ) to some point in all DSLR's....

Yes.

Dont shoot the messengers folks, IF they are wrong and even if it IS paranoia or herd mentality, YOU the consumer can only benefit from it......Try not to attach yourself emotionally to your "tools" and pic "teams" leave an open mind WE are here to support one another and if WE dont do that TEAM CONSUMER will certainly lose to TEAM CORPORATION for those that just have to pic a side.....

Absolutely, and no one is more skeptical of our corporatocracy than I am. But this isn't the case here. It's paranoia. Your D750 will be able to do this. It might even ruin a photo! But what's the alternative? All cameras have issues, many have this particular issue. It's simply not worth beating it around further.

You know what, thats FINE then man UNLESS they release a d760 that fixes it and devalues my D750 prematurely as they did with my d800e and d600.......especially if Im not directly impacted by the aforementioned phenomena, would it be better for us to beat the drums loud and clear to force a response now? ala d600 shutter mechanism free replacement ( maybe they can retrofit something in the mirror box for those than NEED it, not saying I particularly fall in this category )...its US against them and without these guys pouring over these cameras few of the issues would be as widely known and definitely not addressed...In fact when you call into ELITE IKON..without being able to direct the conversation back here using the techniques and discussions from these members so often maligned for reporting "issues" it would be HARDER to prove and process a support claim.....

It really upsets me when people attack whistleblowers because of emotional attachment to a brand or mental detachment from a problem thats not readily observable by them based on how they use their camera or the luck of the draw on model runs....

 

[HymanRoth]

I just find it inexplicable that you returned a perfectly good camera because of an "issue" that some wedding photographer somewhere posted on the web, pictures taken under who knows what circumstances, on the theory that someday this "issue" MAY somehow affect one of your own shots. Especially since the one or two wedding photos that everyone points to were probably culled from thousands of images taken that day.

Somebody else posted a really smart comparison on this issue, which bears repeating. Let's assume this phenomenon is real and the D750 is more prone to it than other cameras (a stretch). Let's also assume that, if this is the case, that the D750 is less than "perfect" and that this "issue" would affect one, two, or even three out of a hundred photos. Let's put that all into perspective by looking at auto focus. Auto focus is a great thing, but within the limitations imposed by design and tolerances, it is not perfect. I'd estimate that autofocus, for me, probably misses about 5% of the time. But I accept that, as there is no such thing as a perfect AF system in a reasonably priced camera. That doesn't mean the camera is defective. It just means that the system isn't perfect, especially at this price point. Does this 5% of missed focus lead me to return a perfectly good camera? Of course not!

So why in blazes would this "reflection issue" lead you to return your camera? I just don't get it. Because some wedding photographer somewhere had a couple of pictures showing a reflection?

 

[NJani]

I can tell you I've shot many thousands of frames into the sun and not seen this effect, but given this issue distresses you so much it's very obvious this camera isn't for you. Return it and get something that doesn't freak you out.

For those who want to see a real world sample of this phenomenon. Imagine this with bright sun.

View: original size

 

[James Bligh]

I just find it inexplicable that you returned a perfectly good camera because of an "issue" that some wedding photographer somewhere posted on the web, pictures taken under who knows what circumstances, on the theory that someday this "issue" MAY somehow affect one of your own shots. Especially since the one or two wedding photos that everyone points to were probably culled from thousands of images taken that day.

So why in blazes would this "reflection issue" lead you to return your camera? I just don't get it. Because some wedding photographer somewhere had a couple of pictures showing a reflection?

Internal reflection issue is not confined to wedding photographers. It occurs in daily photographs of ordinary people, day and night.

http://www.slrclub.com/bbs/vx2.php?id=nikon_d1_forum&category=2&divpage=626&no=3348368

 

[helltormentor]

I just find it inexplicable that you returned a perfectly good camera because of an "issue" that some wedding photographer somewhere posted on the web, pictures taken under who knows what circumstances, on the theory that someday this "issue" MAY somehow affect one of your own shots. Especially since the one or two wedding photos that everyone points to were probably culled from thousands of images taken that day.

Somebody else posted a really smart comparison on this issue, which bears repeating. Let's assume this phenomenon is real and the D750 is more prone to it than other cameras (a stretch). Let's also assume that, if this is the case, that the D750 is less than "perfect" and that this "issue" would affect one, two, or even three out of a hundred photos. Let's put that all into perspective by looking at auto focus. Auto focus is a great thing, but within the limitations imposed by design and tolerances, it is not perfect. I'd estimate that autofocus, for me, probably misses about 5% of the time. But I accept that, as there is no such thing as a perfect AF system in a reasonably priced camera. That doesn't mean the camera is defective. It just means that the system isn't perfect, especially at this price point. Does this 5% of missed focus lead me to return a perfectly good camera? Of course not!

So why in blazes would this "reflection issue" lead you to return your camera? I just don't get it. Because some wedding photographer somewhere had a couple of pictures showing a reflection?

I assume you have followed all discussion and seen photos of kids on a trampoline. I do not think anybody can claim that those photos have been taken in an attempt to duplicate the banding issue. I would call it a random test. 4 out of 60 photos show it (6.7%). As I said, this is an issue for people shooting stage (like me) and weddings. These situations are exactly those that you can expect to end up with some misfocus shots. 6% banding + 5 % misfocus; isn't this miss rate a little high on your book? I do not want to play with math here. I just want to get my point across. Can you please tell me the reason why we chose to pay the higher price of the D750 compared to that of the D610/600? to decrease the probability of ending up with unusable shots due to the less sophisticated AF system of the D600/610. Now, you might get the point why some users feel very very disappointed. With the D750, you have a better AF but you need to worry about another thing from now on

 

[sgoldswo]

I can tell you I've shot many thousands of frames into the sun and not seen this effect, but given this issue distresses you so much it's very obvious this camera isn't for you. Return it and get something that doesn't freak you out.

For those who want to see a real world sample of this phenomenon. Imagine this with bright sun.

View: original size

 

[sgoldswo]

a group of wedding shooters well versed in Nikon immediately noticed it in real world usage.....

That's not what happened. This was "discovered" in late November. The camera launched months before. Ross Harvey didn't notice it. DigitalRev didn't notice it. TCSTV didn't notice it. Ming Thein didn't notice it. A couple people stumbled upon it. It's misleading to say it was "immediately noticed." It wasn't. Tens of thousands of people shot their D750 for months without noticing it.

from my limited research in examples ive seen ( which have all been stills not video ) cameras other than the D750 where it showed up seemed on average to be much less pronounced ( be it naturally or the fact everyone is looking to illustrate the issue ) and the banding more gradient and much less harsh.....

I don't know about that. It looks "worse" to me on the NEX, on the Fuji, on the 5DII; it looks about as "bad" on the 6D. It's subjective. Regardless of how "good" or "bad" the flair looks, though, doesn't it sort of ruin a photo regardless? If the worry really is about the practical impact - people keep shouting, "It could ruin my engagement shoot!" - does it matter if you have a really noticeable black band across the bride-to-be's face, or a 20% less noticeable black band across the bride-to-be's face? Isn't the photo ruined regardless?

The point of my thread was to find out if any of those this effects did in fact get any remedy by either replacing or sending it in for repair.....

No.

The most likely outcome is that the new design of the d750 does indeed lead it to be more prone to the discovered phenomenon however its probably existent ( especially in the form of scatter ) to some point in all DSLR's....

Yes.

Dont shoot the messengers folks, IF they are wrong and even if it IS paranoia or herd mentality, YOU the consumer can only benefit from it......Try not to attach yourself emotionally to your "tools" and pic "teams" leave an open mind WE are here to support one another and if WE dont do that TEAM CONSUMER will certainly lose to TEAM CORPORATION for those that just have to pic a side.....

Absolutely, and no one is more skeptical of our corporatocracy than I am. But this isn't the case here. It's paranoia. Your D750 will be able to do this. It might even ruin a photo! But what's the alternative? All cameras have issues, many have this particular issue. It's simply not worth beating it around further.

You know what, thats FINE then man UNLESS they release a d760 that fixes it and devalues my D750 prematurely as they did with my d800e and d600.......especially if Im not directly impacted by the aforementioned phenomena, would it be better for us to beat the drums loud and clear to force a response now? ala d600 shutter mechanism free replacement ( maybe they can retrofit something in the mirror box for those than NEED it, not saying I particularly fall in this category )...its US against them and without these guys pouring over these cameras few of the issues would be as widely known and definitely not addressed...In fact when you call into ELITE IKON..without being able to direct the conversation back here using the techniques and discussions from these members so often maligned for reporting "issues" it would be HARDER to prove and process a support claim.....

It really upsets me when people attack whistleblowers because of emotional attachment to a brand or mental detachment from a problem thats not readily observable by them based on how they use their camera or the luck of the draw on model runs....

 

[HymanRoth]

And I assume YOU have followed the threads as well, in which many other models can be shown to exhibit the same behavior. So what are you going to do, give up photography? Every camera has design compromises. Cost and physics dictate this.

My father in law always says, "when a person does not use logic to reach a conclusion, you cannot use logic to refute that conclusion." So I am done here. Go and return your camera and wait for the perfect model to come out.

 

[James Bligh]

And I assume YOU have followed the threads as well, in which many other models can be shown to exhibit the same behavior. So what are you going to do, give up photography? Every camera has design compromises. Cost and physics dictate this.

My father in law always says, "when a person does not use logic to reach a conclusion, you cannot use logic to refute that conclusion." So I am done here. Go and return your camera and wait for the perfect model to come out.

Not perfect but acceptable and acceptable varies with people. Sure it can be superb but unacceptable and vice versa too.

 

[LarsLeibgott]

And I assume YOU have followed the threads as well, in which many other models can be shown to exhibit the same behavior. So what are you going to do, give up photography? Every camera has design compromises. Cost and physics dictate this.

My father in law always says, "when a person does not use logic to reach a conclusion, you cannot use logic to refute that conclusion." So I am done here. Go and return your camera and wait for the perfect model to come out.

Yes. Thank you. Goodness. No one here has said that this isn't a "real world issue." I'll take my D750 out to a mall right now and take a portrait under the bright, terrible mall lighting, with a big fat strip of flare across the subjects face, if it will get you all to stop saying, "BUT IT'S A REAL WORLD ISSUE!" We get it. The sun exists, and photographers use the sun. Ergo, class action lawsuit.

Some of you have returned your cameras for problems you never saw in your pictures (pictures you took before you found out about the flare). Some of you have looked to scenarios where people are intentionally trying to provoke the issue and saying, LOOK! SIX POINT SEVEN PERCENT! What are you left with beyond that? A handful of shots from wedding photographers shooting in light that is challenging to begin with, and, given what we know about other cameras and this flare, would have still happened had they pulled out their trusty 6Ds and changed the angle slightly.

HymanRoth is exactly right: what do you do about it? It's a problem inherent to seemingly every camera, and if it somehow isn't in your specific camera, trust me, they all have issues. "Let's go after Nikon!" For what? A design issue inherent to mirror boxes, Nikon or otherwise? Good luck with that.

If the sensor on the 750 starts spontaneously cracking down the middle, call me. I'll join the hunt. If the camera starts burning people, call me. If it starts spewing oil, call me. If the flashes start falling off, call me. If the CFRTP frame starts bending, call me. Call me when there are specific issues with this camera that influence your real photography and not your hypothetical photography.

And if you still say, "I CAN'T TRUST IT, THOUGH!", return it. Send it back and get your money back and move on. This is not a large company burning the little guy, and you're never going to see recourse for it. Get your money back. Good luck finding an issue free camera, but that's rather beside the point, no? Our long national D750 nightmare will be over, and that's cause enough.

 

[NikonShoot3r]

And I assume YOU have followed the threads as well, in which many other models can be shown to exhibit the same behavior. So what are you going to do, give up photography? Every camera has design compromises. Cost and physics dictate this.

My father in law always says, "when a person does not use logic to reach a conclusion, you cannot use logic to refute that conclusion." So I am done here. Go and return your camera and wait for the perfect model to come out.

Yes. Thank you. Goodness. No one here has said that this isn't a "real world issue." I'll take my D750 out to a mall right now and take a portrait under the bright, terrible mall lighting, with a big fat strip of flare across the subjects face, if it will get you all to stop saying, "BUT IT'S A REAL WORLD ISSUE!" We get it. The sun exists, and photographers use the sun. Ergo, class action lawsuit.

Some of you have returned your cameras for problems you never saw in your pictures (pictures you took before you found out about the flare). Some of you have looked to scenarios where people are intentionally trying to provoke the issue and saying, LOOK! SIX POINT SEVEN PERCENT! What are you left with beyond that? A handful of shots from wedding photographers shooting in light that is challenging to begin with, and, given what we know about other cameras and this flare, would have still happened had they pulled out their trusty 6Ds and changed the angle slightly.

HymanRoth is exactly right: what do you do about it? It's a problem inherent to seemingly every camera, and if it somehow isn't in your specific camera, trust me, they all have issues. "Let's go after Nikon!" For what? A design issue inherent to mirror boxes, Nikon or otherwise? Good luck with that.

If the sensor on the 750 starts spontaneously cracking down the middle, call me. I'll join the hunt. If the camera starts burning people, call me. If it starts spewing oil, call me. If the flashes start falling off, call me. If the CFRTP frame starts bending, call me. Call me when there are specific issues with this camera that influence your real photography and not your hypothetical photography.

And if you still say, "I CAN'T TRUST IT, THOUGH!", return it. Send it back and get your money back and move on. This is not a large company burning the little guy, and you're never going to see recourse for it. Get your money back. Good luck finding an issue free camera, but that's rather beside the point, no? Our long national D750 nightmare will be over, and that's cause enough.

Great post Lars & I agree.- It's definitely a great camera that I plan on using for years to come