Dp2Q Contemplating a purchase.

[frank14]

Hi,

Brandnewbie on dpreview as of tonight. Before I am accused of trolling, I just want to say that I have a Sigma SD14 since the end of 2007. I have great interest in the Foveon sensor.

The Dp2Q has attracted my attention. Yesterday I downloaded the latest version of DPP (6.1.0) and some images that were referred to through a thread named: "For those who do not have the quattro and want to test the raw." posted by "Gate bois". I was quite impressed with the results.

So, at this point, I am tempted. I would like to hear from people on the forum about what problems they still see (post 6.1.0) with the Dp2Q, what makes them hesitate or postpone their decision to get one. This is why I spoke about trolling earlier. I just want to get a feel of confidence for this decision in view of what others have to say good and bad before I jump.

I come from a film background mostly so I am not worried a lot (if any) about a lack of bells and whistles especially things like being limited to ISO 100 or so. But long exposures are of great interest to me, as an example. Fuji Provia, which I still use, is good in that regard (multi minutes exposures without color shift). Price wise, should I wait after the holidays for buying?

Any answer is much appreciated.

Frank.

 

[SigmaTog]

The honest people will tell you to, go for it.

The trolls will say, get XYZ camera.

Price you never know how it will go, but there is another release to go, the DP3Q, so it is unlikely to fall any time soon.

Bulb is virtually non-existent in digital cameras, beyond 60 30 seconds, because of heat build up on the sensor circuitry & too much noise is produced.

So enjoy the camera or this post

ΣigmaTog

 

[Marek L]

I like my Quattro very much, see my post with photos take with Q.

resolution is just great and even OOC jpeg's are really good, most of the times there is no need to do any PP

 

[Johan Borg]

Hi,

Brandnewbie on dpreview as of tonight. Before I am accused of trolling, I just want to say that I have a Sigma SD14 since the end of 2007. I have great interest in the Foveon sensor.

The Dp2Q has attracted my attention. Yesterday I downloaded the latest version of DPP (6.1.0) and some images that were referred to through a thread named: "For those who do not have the quattro and want to test the raw." posted by "Gate bois". I was quite impressed with the results.

Then you know what to expect from image quality and SPP performance.

So, at this point, I am tempted. I would like to hear from people on the forum about what problems they still see (post 6.1.0) with the Dp2Q, what makes them hesitate or postpone their decision to get one. This is why I spoke about trolling earlier. I just want to get a feel of confidence for this decision in view of what others have to say good and bad before I jump.

I prefer how my DP2M handles highlights (better recovery in RAW), Quattro is more like the SD15 in this regard. On the other hand, shadow recovery is improved so you should meter for highlights.

Handling is better than in earlier models, both because the camera operation is faster but also thanks to the grip and the dual control wheels. On the other hand, the camera is not really pocketable due to the grip.

Rendering was originally smoother than from Merrill, but from firmware 1.02 you basically have the choice between Merrill style or Quattro style (Portrait mode retains this).

My favorite feature of the Quattro: Aspect ratio selection. You can shoot in 21:9, 16:9, 3:2, 4:3 or 1:1 and later change the ratio in SPP or the in-camera RAW converter.

To consider: Merrill is on end-of-life sale, so excellent value for money if you don't need the latest and greatest. I stopped using the Merrill when I got the Quattro, though.

I come from a film background mostly so I am not worried a lot (if any) about a lack of bells and whistles especially things like being limited to ISO 100 or so. But long exposures are of great interest to me, as an example. Fuji Provia, which I still use, is good in that regard (multi minutes exposures without color shift). Price wise, should I wait after the holidays for buying?

Sigma DP cameras are limited to 30s exposures. The original firmware of DP2 Quattro also had weaknesses that have later been fixed with regards to long exposures, so disregard results from early days, but 30s is still the limit.

 

[maceoQ]

The honest people will tell you to, go for it.

The trolls will say, get XYZ camera.

Is it pleasant to see the world in black and white? ;-)

 

[nudibranches]

Rendering was originally smoother than from Merrill, but from firmware 1.02 you basically have the choice between Merrill style or Quattro style (Portrait mode retains this).

--

that's obviously in jpeg? portrait being the "Merrill mode"?

http://www.fotoblur.com/people/nudibranches

 

[SigmaTog]

The honest people will tell you to, go for it.

The trolls will say, get XYZ camera.

Is it pleasant to see the world in black and white? ;-)

To be honest I usually see the world through my Sigma cameras in UV or IR

ΣigmaTog

 

[Johan Borg]

Rendering was originally smoother than from Merrill, but from firmware 1.02 you basically have the choice between Merrill style or Quattro style (Portrait mode retains this).

--

that's obviously in jpeg? portrait being the "Merrill mode"?

No and no: I refer to RAW conversions in Sigma Photo Pro which now render most color modes similar to Merrill (in other words with less Luminance NR and more Chroma NR by default) and Portrait mode retains the smoother Quattro style more suitable for skin rendering.

In-camera Quatttro JPEGs are also a bit sharper now, but they were always more detailed than in-camera Merrill JPEGs. Anyway, I always set sharpness to -1.0 for in-camera JPEGs from both cameras since the in-camera sharpening is not as refined as the one in SPP.

 

[HBowman]

I've got the quattro for a week early in the beginning (coming from the whole Sigma line-up).

It is all mater of comfort.

The look of the files is different from what we were used with previous generations and, while of course very sharp, the Quattro look far more "numeric" than the organic/film rendering of the Merrill, for example.

A quattro file, whatever rig you have, will take you around one minute to be saved and almost 20/30 seconds at every cursor move (if you work in full resolution).

Highlights recovery is harder to achieve, that mean you really really need to expose to the right and up the shadow. Shadows are still blotchy.

At the end, the Merrill files are more balanced and more flexible in term of highlights and colours latitude. This is the immediate fact you'll notice when you start to PP quattro files : less room.

So ok the Quattro files are more "just" out of the box but this is not the point.

Just download raw files on the net, from the Merrill and the Quattro.

For the Quattro just have a look here : http://shin3.asablo.jp/blog/cat/dp2q/

Try to PP Merrill and Quattro and you will make your choice.

It is all mater of comfort.

I used SIGMA gear for the superb latitude you had on colors, in post processing. This latitude is gone and you will notice it in less than a day (quattro give you more latitude on the green channel, that's all).

--
Kind regards - http://www.hulyssbowman.com
Mean Southern Cassowary

 

[Hornbrille]

For me it's too early to come out with a verdict. I bought the DP2Q after using a DP1, SD15, DP2M, DP3M. It's the only camera I have at the moment and I don' miss the others.

The reason for that is not higher ISO, more resolution, better responsiveness, larger batteries or the overall design of the camera. I bought it for its shadow rendering and SPP handling of chroma noise. You can get blotch free images without posterization even in underexposed areas now. For me this is more important than highlight headroom. Additionally I like the idea of a personal camera. This means that I use it just for myself. I even reject family shots if I think the light is bad. We have enough smartphones and p+s cameras for that in our family.

On waiting:

I used to wait for gear to become cheaper in the past. No I found out for myself that I don't want to postpone important things anymore. Otherwise most fun would not happen at all.

 

[Tom Schum]

Additionally I like the idea of a personal camera. This means that I use it just for myself. I even reject family shots if I think the light is bad. We have enough smartphones and p+s cameras for that in our family.

On waiting:

I used to wait for gear to become cheaper in the past. No I found out for myself that I don't want to postpone important things anymore. Otherwise most fun would not happen at all.

Real wisdom here!

I've started telling my wife to bring her point-and-shoot if she wants any pictures, while I carry my camera in hopes that I won't have to be the photo guy and I can just do art (as I see it).

As for Quattros, I'm waiting for more info from DP1Q users since I already have a DP3M. Early DP1Q stuff looks very good to me.

Unlike you, I have a lot of trouble getting rid of older cameras, but I have done it a few times. I need to work on that.

 

[JL Salvignol]

HB: highlights

Hornbrille: shadows

Geographic determinism?

Nice and usefull synthesis.

--
JLS

 

[Scottelly]

Hi Frank,

The Quattro will not come down below $899, which is what it costs now at B&H.

Loading…

www.bhphotovideo.com

That is a prediction, and as you know, the future is uncertain. I just don't see it happening, considering the fact that the DP2 Merrill was at least that expensive a year after it was released.

If you want to save money, maybe get the DP2 Merrill. There is not a lot of difference between the image quality from both cameras. The main reasons to buy the DP2 Quattro instead of the DP2 Merrill is the faster operation and longer battery life. An extra battery can go a long way to fixing any battery life problem though, and I would guess that since you're used to shooting film, you don't shoot hundreds of photos each time you shoot, so one extra battery would surely do the trick. There are other advantages of the Quattro, of course. The better screen is nice, and it makes those nicer jpegs out of the camera, and it can do in-camera raw processing. It can't do video though, and it is bigger than the DP2 Merrill. (No, the video from the Merrill is not much to talk about.)

Ultimately, if you have the money, I think you will be happy with the Quattro. If you find you don't like it as much as you hoped, then why not just sell it after trying it for a month or two? It's not THAT much of an expensive experiment, after-all. Maybe you could try the Merrill first, and then send it back to trade up for the Quattro. That would give you a really good idea . . . even certainty about which is better.

If you decide you really like the Merrill, you just might find yourself wanting an SD1.



Good luck with your decision.

 

[Apsphoto]

I bought one after doing the Sigma trial, really enjoyed it. It has great resolution and color if you use in the areas where it performs well. it does really well if you like to take your time shooting and let it perform well. Watch your highlights and have fun with it. I also ended up getting a DP3M to supplement it. I use my Fuji X for most things but the Sigma will be there when I am shooting for fun or taking my time.

SPP is usable and the most recent performs well. There is also an alternative and it works for the Foveon cameras like the Merrills and the Quattros, and that is Helicon Filter by Helicon Soft. It is windows but it also works with the Sigma files.

I think it is worth it.

Alan

 

[frank14]

I just want to thank you all the nice people who took the time to answer. Really cool.

 

[Gate bois]

The quattro offers the possibility of making very large prints. It is possible to interpolate the photos, while keeping a high quality rendering and a very high level of detail. Without aliazing or pixelation.

Some details 100% to 54MPix

















In addition, the report reminds me of the film image.
Some examples of scan films:

http://35mm-compact.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=42115

http://www.cmp-color.fr/4x5vsDigital.html

https://flic.kr/p/pjk4MB

https://flic.kr/p/pRtTNQ

The sweetness of quattro made is reflected in the record of these examples. Even the detail rendition is comparable. They are not as smooth too often digital, or too contrasting and pixelated like Merrill.

--
Photo SD9: http://www.etrangeno.book.fr/galeries/natures-mortes/
http://www.etrangeno.book.fr/galeries/paysages/
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3269611
Gsm: http://www.etrangeno.book.fr/galeries/architecture/
Illustrations photomontages: http://www.etrangeno.book.fr/galeries/onirique-surrealiste/
http://www.etrangeno.book.fr/galeries/genese-et-naissance/
DP2s (pseudo Nobil):http://www.chassimages.com/forum/index.php/topic,215683.50.html
http://www.chassimages.com/forum/index.php/topic,215683.75.html
http://www.chassimages.com/forum/index.php/topic,215683.100.html
http://www.chassimages.com/forum/index.php/topic,215683.125.html
http://www.chassimages.com/forum/index.php/topic,215683.225.html

 

[Gate bois]

Even 54Mpix some details are very fine. I think quattro is able to differentiate the details of a pixel.









--
Photo SD9: http://www.etrangeno.book.fr/galeries/natures-mortes/

http://www.etrangeno.book.fr/galeries/paysages/

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3269611

Gsm: http://www.etrangeno.book.fr/galeries/architecture/
Illustrations photomontages: http://www.etrangeno.book.fr/galeries/onirique-surrealiste/

http://www.etrangeno.book.fr/galeries/genese-et-naissance/

DP2s (pseudo Nobil):http://www.chassimages.com/forum/index.php/topic,215683.50.html

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www.chassimages.com

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www.chassimages.com

 

[BobNL]

I think that if you are coming from a film background the dp2q will fit very well. It is a camera that is not too hard to shoot (easier IMHO than the Merrills) with very pleasing results. With SPP6.1 processing became also a little bit less of a pain in the b*tt. I recently shot the dp2Q along a D600 for an assignment at Audi and detailwise it outclassed the Nikon by far. Of course the Nikon was much more flexible for the shooting Unfortunately I can't show the files as inside of the production halls and therefore confidential. But I was amazed how well the dp2Q did on this occasion.

Things to take into consideration are that the highlights behave more like slides. But the shadows are much better recoverable than ever before on foveon cameras. Also WB still seems a bit quirky to me. Choosing the right WB to start with in post processing still seems key. Also the noise reduction seems to have a great impact on the microcontrast in the results, something to be aware of when trying RAWs.

Now that the firmware and SPP have matured some, I'm planning to make a set of RAWs available. It might take a few weeks though as want to include some from the dp1Q as well. It might take a few weeks before I can get my hands on one though.

 

[frank14]

[No message]

 

[frank14]

Oops, this went out too fast. Just wanted to say that I am using Lensrentals.com who have a keeper program which allows one to apply the rental fee (up to a $100.00) to the purchase of the rented item. I will be getting the camera next Tuesday for a few days.

I thought it would be interesting to get a real feel for the camera.

In any event, I feel grateful for your answers.

Frank.