Nikon shot themselves in the foot with the D7100...

[lock]

I agree with you Steve. But isn't it weird that the 17-70 does have the issue, yet the 17-50 does not? So Sigma disabled the one minut OS standby on the 17-50? Or what else did they change?

Lock

 

[StillLearning]

I have both the Sigma 17-50 OS and the 50-150 OS. Both lens work great on my D7100. The worse case is you have to press the selector button when zooming into your images with the camera on. Takes less than a second. Big deal.

Secondly, how could Nikon design this into their cameras? If it's anybody's problem, it is Sigmas. Personally, it is a very minor inconvenience for such outstanding optical quality - and price. The Tokina 12-28 is another outstanding piece of glass. So, if anything, Nikon's screw-up is letting Sigma and Tokina take the lead . . . not with the D7100 which is a superior camera in many regards (although I hate the small buffer with raw).

To quote Sigma from 8 months ago: "This behavior is related to the operation of the OS unit of the lens when it is used in conjunction with the Nikon D7100. The OS unit stays in communication with the camera body for about 1 minute after a camera’s auto-off feature shuts down the camera between exposures while still in the on mode. This is because our lenses are designed to stand by for operation; Nikon cameras have no provision for determining the status of the OS unit. This will also cause the need to press the multi selector of the Nikon D7100 each time to scroll or zoom in when reviewing your images on the D7100 LCD screen. These symptoms only occur on the Nikon D7100 camera, there is nothing wrong with the lens. If and when you recognize the phenomena mentioned above, please note they will not cause any malfunction to the camera body, you can keep using our products without any worry.

Yours Truly,Sigma Corporation of America"

--
Steve Bingham
www.dustylens.com
www.ghost-town-photography.com

I did my own test with the D7100 and Sigma 17-70c. I left the OS switched off and took some shots and it took 60 seconds after before I could move around the preview. Okay so the OS must be engaged whether the switch is on or off. So I tested that theory. I took a shot at 70mm at 1/20 with it switched off and one with it switched on. I think you will be able to tell which one with it off and which one it is on. So there is something extra going on between the lens and the camera other than having the OS engaged. It still may something to do with the OS but not like I thought it was.

 

[ggeinec]

I don't like it when big companies interfere with people's free choice just because they can.

Protectionism like this is annoying for customers and bad for business in the long run.

André

 

[mistermejia]

I agree with you and it's a dirty game they got forcing people to only use their lenses and making third party lenses not work.

What??? Nikon??? Nikon doing that deliberately, purposely, a proposito??? I don't believe that.

I know a few people recently bought Canon just so they don't have to deal with it just so they can use the new Sigma Art lenses.

Once Canon gets a new sensor and can match Nikons sensor, I'm sure even more people will switch.

They didn't care with their software and replaced it with the worst downgrade software. They don't care about the end users experience like they use to.

It's a shame because they make great cameras and have superb sensors. Maybe the D7200 they will leave it alone and allow third party lenses.

 

[Steve Bingham]

I have both the Sigma 17-50 OS and the 50-150 OS. Both lens work great on my D7100. The worse case is you have to press the selector button when zooming into your images with the camera on. Takes less than a second. Big deal.

Secondly, how could Nikon design this into their cameras? If it's anybody's problem, it is Sigmas. Personally, it is a very minor inconvenience for such outstanding optical quality - and price. The Tokina 12-28 is another outstanding piece of glass. So, if anything, Nikon's screw-up is letting Sigma and Tokina take the lead . . . not with the D7100 which is a superior camera in many regards (although I hate the small buffer with raw).

To quote Sigma from 8 months ago: "This behavior is related to the operation of the OS unit of the lens when it is used in conjunction with the Nikon D7100. The OS unit stays in communication with the camera body for about 1 minute after a camera’s auto-off feature shuts down the camera between exposures while still in the on mode. This is because our lenses are designed to stand by for operation; Nikon cameras have no provision for determining the status of the OS unit. This will also cause the need to press the multi selector of the Nikon D7100 each time to scroll or zoom in when reviewing your images on the D7100 LCD screen. These symptoms only occur on the Nikon D7100 camera, there is nothing wrong with the lens. If and when you recognize the phenomena mentioned above, please note they will not cause any malfunction to the camera body, you can keep using our products without any worry.

Yours Truly,Sigma Corporation of America"

--
Steve Bingham
www.dustylens.com
www.ghost-town-photography.com

I did my own test with the D7100 and Sigma 17-70c. I left the OS switched off and took some shots and it took 60 seconds after before I could move around the preview.

OK. However, did you press the multi selector of the Nikon D7100 each time to scroll or zoom? That's the key.

Okay so the OS must be engaged whether the switch is on or off. So I tested that theory. I took a shot at 70mm at 1/20 with it switched off and one with it switched on. I think you will be able to tell which one with it off and which one it is on. So there is something extra going on between the lens and the camera other than having the OS engaged. It still may something to do with the OS but not like I thought it was.

--
Steve Bingham
www.dustylens.com
www.ghost-town-photography.com

 

[StillLearning]

I have both the Sigma 17-50 OS and the 50-150 OS. Both lens work great on my D7100. The worse case is you have to press the selector button when zooming into your images with the camera on. Takes less than a second. Big deal.

Secondly, how could Nikon design this into their cameras? If it's anybody's problem, it is Sigmas. Personally, it is a very minor inconvenience for such outstanding optical quality - and price. The Tokina 12-28 is another outstanding piece of glass. So, if anything, Nikon's screw-up is letting Sigma and Tokina take the lead . . . not with the D7100 which is a superior camera in many regards (although I hate the small buffer with raw).

To quote Sigma from 8 months ago: "This behavior is related to the operation of the OS unit of the lens when it is used in conjunction with the Nikon D7100. The OS unit stays in communication with the camera body for about 1 minute after a camera’s auto-off feature shuts down the camera between exposures while still in the on mode. This is because our lenses are designed to stand by for operation; Nikon cameras have no provision for determining the status of the OS unit. This will also cause the need to press the multi selector of the Nikon D7100 each time to scroll or zoom in when reviewing your images on the D7100 LCD screen. These symptoms only occur on the Nikon D7100 camera, there is nothing wrong with the lens. If and when you recognize the phenomena mentioned above, please note they will not cause any malfunction to the camera body, you can keep using our products without any worry.

Yours Truly,Sigma Corporation of America"

--
Steve Bingham
www.dustylens.com
www.ghost-town-photography.com

I did my own test with the D7100 and Sigma 17-70c. I left the OS switched off and took some shots and it took 60 seconds after before I could move around the preview.

OK. However, did you press the multi selector of the Nikon D7100 each time to scroll or zoom? That's the key.

Multiple times until the time limit then I could go back and forth across the picture without having to repeatably press the joystick pad. I don't have a problem doing that but I did want to test what others said was happening. Now I know it doesn't matter whether the OS is switched on or not it will give the scrolling problem. Also the OS isn't constantly on(at least on my sample) regardless if it is switched on or not.

Okay so the OS must be engaged whether the switch is on or off. So I tested that theory. I took a shot at 70mm at 1/20 with it switched off and one with it switched on. I think you will be able to tell which one with it off and which one it is on. So there is something extra going on between the lens and the camera other than having the OS engaged. It still may something to do with the OS but not like I thought it was.

--
Steve Bingham
www.dustylens.com
www.ghost-town-photography.com

 

[Poldersnapper]

I don't like it when big companies interfere with people's free choice just because they can.

Protectionism like this is annoying for customers and bad for business in the long run.

André

Can you say 'Apple'?

That's why I said companies - plural.

André

 

[BillD7000]

I have the Sigma 8-16mm; 18-35/1.8; 50-150/2.8OS; Sigma 105/2.8 Macro.

All work without a hitch on my D7100. The lenses are great and the camera is the best DX body currently available.

It is not Nikon's responsibility to engineer with Sigma in mind. The reverse needs to take place. Sigma's new USB dock is a GREAT solution.

 

[Steve Bingham]

I have both the Sigma 17-50 OS and the 50-150 OS. Both lens work great on my D7100. The worse case is you have to press the selector button when zooming into your images with the camera on. Takes less than a second. Big deal.

Secondly, how could Nikon design this into their cameras? If it's anybody's problem, it is Sigmas. Personally, it is a very minor inconvenience for such outstanding optical quality - and price. The Tokina 12-28 is another outstanding piece of glass. So, if anything, Nikon's screw-up is letting Sigma and Tokina take the lead . . . not with the D7100 which is a superior camera in many regards (although I hate the small buffer with raw).

To quote Sigma from 8 months ago: "This behavior is related to the operation of the OS unit of the lens when it is used in conjunction with the Nikon D7100. The OS unit stays in communication with the camera body for about 1 minute after a camera’s auto-off feature shuts down the camera between exposures while still in the on mode. This is because our lenses are designed to stand by for operation; Nikon cameras have no provision for determining the status of the OS unit. This will also cause the need to press the multi selector of the Nikon D7100 each time to scroll or zoom in when reviewing your images on the D7100 LCD screen. These symptoms only occur on the Nikon D7100 camera, there is nothing wrong with the lens. If and when you recognize the phenomena mentioned above, please note they will not cause any malfunction to the camera body, you can keep using our products without any worry.

Yours Truly,Sigma Corporation of America"

--
Steve Bingham
www.dustylens.com
www.ghost-town-photography.com

I did my own test with the D7100 and Sigma 17-70c. I left the OS switched off and took some shots and it took 60 seconds after before I could move around the preview.

OK. However, did you press the multi selector of the Nikon D7100 each time to scroll or zoom? That's the key.

I wonder if yours is an earlier version. I know some had to be sent back to Sigma for this very problem. Same with the 17-50. I just tested my 17-50 (later version) with OS on, then turned the camera off. Then turned the camera on and used OS OFF and a single click on the center button gave me 100% . . . and I could scroll . . . in both instances. Perhaps it is just on the 17-70 . . . or earlier versions????? One click and I can see if the focus is correct. Nice.

Multiple times until the time limit then I could go back and forth across the picture without having to repeatably press the joystick pad. I don't have a problem doing that but I did want to test what others said was happening. Now I know it doesn't matter whether the OS is switched on or not it will give the scrolling problem. Also the OS isn't constantly on(at least on my sample) regardless if it is switched on or not.

Okay so the OS must be engaged whether the switch is on or off. So I tested that theory. I took a shot at 70mm at 1/20 with it switched off and one with it switched on. I think you will be able to tell which one with it off and which one it is on. So there is something extra going on between the lens and the camera other than having the OS engaged. It still may something to do with the OS but not like I thought it was.

--
Steve Bingham
www.dustylens.com
www.ghost-town-photography.com

--
Steve Bingham
www.dustylens.com
www.ghost-town-photography.com

 

[StillLearning]

I think it is only on the 17-70C. I have the dock and updated to the later version when I bought it. It works great on my D7100's. I don't mind the scrolling issue. I don't want to upgrade the firmware in my D7100's for fear it will thow off the autofocus. Had it happen with my D800 and Sigma 35 F1.4. Didn't need any AF-Tune before the last D800 update. Afterward I had to add +10 to the camera. Don't want to put it on the lense because it works well with my D700 and D7100's. I can live with that for now.

 

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

I look back at the kit lenses that came with various cameras from Nikon. The D40 had an 18-55 VR. Which was a tack sharp lens on three generations of camera.. D40, D80 and D90. But it was horrible on the D7000.

Huh? This is untrue.

 

[coudet]

The D40 had an 18-55 VR. Which was a tack sharp lens on three generations of camera.. D40, D80 and D90. But it was horrible on the D7000.

Wow, that's incredible. Lens magically rearranges it's elements and it's quality changes depending on what camera you mount it on?


I've never seen a lens like that before. Hell, no one has.

 

[Mako2011]

The D40 had an 18-55 VR. Which was a tack sharp lens on three generations of camera.. D40, D80 and D90. But it was horrible on the D7000.

Wow, that's incredible. Lens magically rearranges it's elements and it's quality changes depending on what camera you mount it on?

I've never seen a lens like that before. Hell, no one has.

Can happen...as many have noted. Lens aberrations are always there but may not be noticed with a lower resolution camera. Diffraction kind of works like that also. The jump to 16mp seemed to bring some lens aberrations into the noticeable/detectable range. I found that to be the case with my own 16-85 that came from my D70 kit. At first I thought my D7000 was broke. The lens never changed...but now the flaws could be seen.

 

[jimoyer]

The D40 had an 18-55 VR. Which was a tack sharp lens on three generations of camera.. D40, D80 and D90. But it was horrible on the D7000.

Wow, that's incredible. Lens magically rearranges it's elements and it's quality changes depending on what camera you mount it on?

I've never seen a lens like that before. Hell, no one has.

My 18-200 was a great lens on my D200 (before it turned into a glob of melted metal and plastic). Certainly not the best lens ever made....superzooms are always a compromise....but that combination took some of the best digital images I've ever taken.

Put said 18-200 on my D7100 and it's much more hit or miss. Did the lens change by putting it on another camera? Unless I dropped or abused it, probably not. So what changed? Oh yeah, the camera. How about the fact that the D7100 is capable of significantly more resolution and has over double the pixels of the D200.

It isn't rocket science, and it certainly isn't a lens "magically" rearranging it's elements.

 

[Kaso]

The D40 had an 18-55 VR. Which was a tack sharp lens on three generations of camera.. D40, D80 and D90. But it was horrible on the D7000.

Wow, that's incredible. . . .

. . . Lens aberrations are always there but may not be noticed with a lower resolution camera. Diffraction kind of works like that also. The jump to 16mp seemed to bring some lens aberrations into the noticeable/detectable range. . . .

Seriously... Would the "problem" become more severe as sensors grew to 24MP and higher? With the lenses becoming the "limiting factors," would we expect a new generation of lenses?

(By the way, I've never noticed kit lenses to be tack sharp. But then again, most things are subjective in photography.)

 

[Mako2011]

The D40 had an 18-55 VR. Which was a tack sharp lens on three generations of camera.. D40, D80 and D90. But it was horrible on the D7000.

Wow, that's incredible. . . .

. . . Lens aberrations are always there but may not be noticed with a lower resolution camera. Diffraction kind of works like that also. The jump to 16mp seemed to bring some lens aberrations into the noticeable/detectable range. . . .

Seriously... Would the "problem" become more severe as sensors grew to 24MP and higher? With the lenses becoming the "limiting factors," would we expect a new generation of lenses?

Yes, a 24mp sensor will be able to resolve more lens aberrations than a 16. We now have recommended lens lists for the D800 and such, due to the greater resolving capabilities. I would think it possible that the lists adjust if a 54 mp FF sensor hits the scene. We are seeing improved lens coming. More ED and such.

(By the way, I've never noticed kit lenses to be tack sharp. But then again, most things are subjective in photography.)

Imatest can measure "sharp" so maybe resolution/acutance is less subjective than say "out of focus" quality

 

[BarnET]

The D40 had an 18-55 VR. Which was a tack sharp lens on three generations of camera.. D40, D80 and D90. But it was horrible on the D7000.

Wow, that's incredible. . . .

. . . Lens aberrations are always there but may not be noticed with a lower resolution camera. Diffraction kind of works like that also. The jump to 16mp seemed to bring some lens aberrations into the noticeable/detectable range. . . .

Seriously... Would the "problem" become more severe as sensors grew to 24MP and higher? With the lenses becoming the "limiting factors," would we expect a new generation of lenses?

(By the way, I've never noticed kit lenses to be tack sharp. But then again, most things are subjective in photography.)

well take a look here.

the 18-105mm kit from Nikon on 12 mp it delivers 7 p-mpix

Loading…

www.dxomark.com

on the 24mp D3300 only 10 P-mpix

Loading…

www.dxomark.com

so double the resolution translates in just 43% gain.

So if you zoom in 100% on the D3300 the image looks plain soft.

If you zoom in 100% on the D300 the image looks sharper but ofcourse you zoom in less.

So even though you do get more resolution pixel-peeping will show you the opposite.

 

[Kaso]

well take a look here.

the 18-105mm kit from Nikon on 12 mp it delivers 7 p-mpix

http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Nikon...m-f-3.5-5.6G-ED-VR-mounted-on-Nikon-D300__440

on the 24mp D3300 only 10 P-mpix

http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Nikon...-f-3.5-5.6G-ED-VR-mounted-on-Nikon-D3300__928

so double the resolution translates in just 43% gain.

So if you zoom in 100% on the D3300 the image looks plain soft.

If you zoom in 100% on the D300 the image looks sharper but ofcourse you zoom in less.

So even though you do get more resolution pixel-peeping will show you the opposite.

Yes, I'm aware of this phenomenon.

A source of such phenomenon is the quality of analog signals provided by the lens. Feeding those signals through a sensor with more resolving power will make the weaknesses more pronounced in the resultant digital data.

 

[BarnET]

well take a look here.

the 18-105mm kit from Nikon on 12 mp it delivers 7 p-mpix

http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Nikon...m-f-3.5-5.6G-ED-VR-mounted-on-Nikon-D300__440

on the 24mp D3300 only 10 P-mpix

http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Nikon...-f-3.5-5.6G-ED-VR-mounted-on-Nikon-D3300__928

so double the resolution translates in just 43% gain.

So if you zoom in 100% on the D3300 the image looks plain soft.

If you zoom in 100% on the D300 the image looks sharper but ofcourse you zoom in less.

So even though you do get more resolution pixel-peeping will show you the opposite.

Yes, I'm aware of this phenomenon.

A source of such phenomenon is the quality of analog signals provided by the lens. Feeding those signals through a sensor with more resolving power will make the weaknesses more pronounced in the resultant digital data.

Yeah that's a great explanation.

And also the main problem with current Apsc sensors. The resolving of these camera's may be amazing. Most lenses are currently not built up to those standards.

The best exception is the Sigma 18-35mm F1.8.

 

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

The D40 had an 18-55 VR. Which was a tack sharp lens on three generations of camera.. D40, D80 and D90. But it was horrible on the D7000.

Wow, that's incredible. Lens magically rearranges it's elements and it's quality changes depending on what camera you mount it on?

I've never seen a lens like that before. Hell, no one has.

Can happen...as many have noted. Lens aberrations are always there but may not be noticed with a lower resolution camera. Diffraction kind of works like that also. The jump to 16mp seemed to bring some lens aberrations into the noticeable/detectable range. I found that to be the case with my own 16-85 that came from my D70 kit. At first I thought my D7000 was broke. The lens never changed...but now the flaws could be seen.

My retail boxed 18-55VR worked great on my D90 and D7000 and it continues to provide very good results on my D3300. I find it to be better than the 18-55VRII that came with the D3300, mostly because of less field curvature. Stopped down center and mid-field performance from this lens is close to the 35mm F1.8 and the 40mm F2.8 when they are all used at similar apertures. The primes are better in the corners. Color, contrast, and CA control is close (except for the 35 which has really bad CA unless it is stopped way down). The primes Vignetting more than the zoom.