Initial views on RX10

[VinceC]

I will update this when I have more experience, I have had the camera for a few days and am comparing it to my Olympus M4/3.

The good

Size, well put together. It is NOT all metal as the marketing folk claim, much of the body is plastic, but good quality, well designed and this is not an issue. I have seen the lens hood criticised - personally I like it and it is neat and fits well. Having a pop up flash is great after my Oly "sticky on" flashes.

Colour and detail from the RAW files is good, and they process in Lightroom well. Much easier to get an attractive colour profile than Olympus.

Menus and control panel. Great - a fantastic job coming from the dismal depths of a Nex 7 I once had. They are well laid out, easy to access and clear. Considerably clearer than my Olys.

Jury's Out

The files at ISO 400 and above are noisier than I expected, more so than current M4/3. This is an area I need to develop and may revise as I play with different sharpening and noise reduction settings.

Dynamic range is another area of concern. It is easy to blow highlights to white, where they can't be recovered. Much more so than current M4/3.

Focus seems a bit ponderous, but this may be learning.

Electronic zoom. This may yet be a killer for me - coupled with battery life (below). It is slow, and I'm used to a quick twist to get what I want. Why put it on an "enthusiast" camera? To me it just doesn't suit the market. Maybe it was a decision based on size and cost - not practicality and ease of use.

A killer?

Battery life is looking very poor. I have bought a second (clone) battery and external charger. I am going to Germany shortly and considering batteries 3&4. I am used to carrying a spare battery, but am not confident that two batteries will see me through a day's holiday shooting. I bought the camera as a "grab and go" that I could take anywhere as a small, but effective package. Toting several spare batteries kills that - and may have me leave it on the shelf, or in the hotel, and reach for my Olys.

--
Best regards
Vince C

 

[Corkcampbell]

Thanks for your thoughts and a couple of comments. I won't touch the "Jury's Out" section as that is a gray area and you have had limited time with the camera. I agree about the body integrity. I'm surprised there's no comments on the video capabilities of the camera, where it really shines; I believe it rivals that of my GH3, and I'm looking forward to the next version of the camera, which should have 4K. And, relatedly, I am so please with not having to change lenses all of the time, that I'm even considering adding the new Pany FZ1000.

However, the last section is where I disagree. Although I would like to have a massive battery like that in my GH3 being used, the FW50 batteries are very cheap, small and light, and available in a lot of places as Sony has been using them for about a decade. In fact, I had an old battery and charger from an A33 in a drawer and have been using those, as well as a couple of new, third-party batteries, one of which happened to come with another charger. I really dislike the charging-in-the-camera system Sony wants us to use...takes too long and the adapter is much bulkier and heavier than my external chargers.

One "Killer" for me is the 29:59 recording limit; don't like that at all, and was surprised when Sony implemented it on all of the RX10s, not just those sold in the EU. In fact, it's one reason I may have to keep the GH3 around. Of course, the small battery of the RX10 also limits the recording time, but I haven't tested that yet.

By the way, I also have a couple of Oly m4/3 cameras - EM-5. I don't mind the detachable flash as I just leave them on; I also like the grip, which is permanently on one of my cameras...I don't put a battery in the body so I don't need to detach it.

--
"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber

 

[MoreGooderPhotos]

With regards to the blown out highlights, it's common advice to always set the exposure compensation to at least -1/3 EV, or lower. The sensor captures a good deal of information in the shadows that can later be pulled back up in post. That has worked well for me, albeit more troublesome due to the extra time spent in front of a computer.

I haven't had the same experience as you regarding battery life. I don't shoot much video though. Luckily, Sony chose to use a battery that is easily purchased. I have a spare with me when shooting.

 

[chiane]

This sounds pretty bad unless you shoot sleeping turtles in perfect light.

 

[breivogel]

If you want to avoid blown highlights, it is simple. Use Zebra at 100%+. Adjust exposure to make them go away in highlights areas.

Also, I find that ACR does a good job of recovering them if you shoot raw (which I always do).

Batter life is decent, Iif not up to DSLR standards. Depends a lot on how much reviewing you do. The batteries are pretty small and inexpensive - so not a big deal.

 

[BobK77]

I am not sure what is everyone complaining about.
I use RX10 as a video camera A LOT.
Single battery life is enough to record one and a half to two hockey games with LCD is always on and sleep disabled.
I added two Wasabi batteries to my kit and never run out of juice.

My DSLR (Nikon 5200) is NOT better with battery life.

 

[elliottnewcomb]

Can't remember, does WiFi need to be turned off?

Recently, had my cell phone, WiFi on, for transfer of pic, today nearly dead, thought I forgot to charge it, but it was the WiFi constantly searching for something.

 

[BobK77]

Can't remember, does WiFi need to be turned off?

Recently, had my cell phone, WiFi on, for transfer of pic, today nearly dead, thought I forgot to charge it, but it was the WiFi constantly searching for something.

 

[spektacle]

My only 2 complaints about this camera:

1. Limited to 29:59 min video recording time but I don't know any other than Panasonic GH still cameras that do not have it...

2. Tripod socket placement: it is too close to the back of the camera, and if you are shooting above the crowd with the camera mounted on a tripod or monopod it is almost impossible to tilt down the screen, and you have to move the screen out prior to mounting the camera. Otherwise, it won't tilt at all. I wish it had a fully articulated screen like in Panasonic FZ1000...

 

[lancespring]

I will update this when I have more experience, I have had the camera for a few days and am comparing it to my Olympus M4/3.

The good

Size, well put together. It is NOT all metal as the marketing folk claim, much of the body is plastic, but good quality, well designed and this is not an issue.

This is downright false information that you are spreading. The camera's frame is made of magnesium. The grip area has a rubberized coating over it to enhance holding the camera. It is totally accurate to describe the RX10 as a metal body camera.

Jury's Out

The files at ISO 400 and above are noisier than I expected, more so than current M4/3.

OK, this statement makes ZERO sense. You say that you expected a 1 inch sensor camera that has a sensor area of only 122.88 sq mm to be able to match the noise level performance of a m4/3 camera with a sensor area of 224.9 sq mm?? Sorry, but that just isn't going to happen.

Dynamic range is another area of concern. It is easy to blow highlights to white, where they can't be recovered. Much more so than current M4/3.

This is a common issue with Sony sensors. As others said, you will want to use the camera with -.3 or -.7 EV exposure compensation setting, depending on the lighting. My full frame Nikon D600 has a Sony sensor in it, and I usually shoot it set to -.7 EV

Focus seems a bit ponderous, but this may be learning.

Electronic zoom. This may yet be a killer for me - coupled with battery life (below). It is slow, and I'm used to a quick twist to get what I want. Why put it on an "enthusiast" camera? To me it just doesn't suit the market. Maybe it was a decision based on size and cost - not practicality and ease of use.

You forget that the RX10 has been heavily optimized for video recording. A fast zoom speed looks absolutely HORRIBLE on video. If you don't plan on using the RX10 for video, then it may not be the best camera for you.

A killer?

Battery life is looking very poor. I have bought a second (clone) battery and external charger.

This is another very misleading statement. While battery life is definitely not as long as the batteries that many larger sensor cameras have, to describe it as being very poor is an exaggeration. I've had a number of outings where I have shot 300 to 500 photos on a single battery, and still had battery left to spare.

The one and only time when I have needed a 2nd battery was when I was shooting quite a bit of video. After recording about an hour and 20 minutes of video, I had to use a second battery.

Do be sure to put the Wi-Fi feature in AIRPLANE MODE, as there is no sense in powering Wi-Fi when you are not using it. It just wastes power.

I am going to Germany shortly and considering batteries 3&4. I am used to carrying a spare battery, but am not confident that two batteries will see me through a day's holiday shooting.

How many photos do you take in a day while on vacation? It would have to be a truly extraordinary number, in order for this to be any sort of issue. The Olympus OM-D E-M5's battery is not that much larger in power capacity. Its battery capacity edge over the RX10 is not significant.

I bought the camera as a "grab and go" that I could take anywhere as a small, but effective package. Toting several spare batteries kills that - and may have me leave it on the shelf, or in the hotel, and reach for my Olys.

This makes me chuckle, as the RX10's batteries are so very compact and lightweight. You obviously have not yet used the camera sufficiently enough to judge the battery life accurately.
.

 

[gskolenda]

I will update this when I have more experience, I have had the camera for a few days and am comparing it to my Olympus M4/3.

The good

Size, well put together. It is NOT all metal as the marketing folk claim, much of the body is plastic, but good quality, well designed and this is not an issue. I have seen the lens hood criticised - personally I like it and it is neat and fits well. Having a pop up flash is great after my Oly "sticky on" flashes.

Colour and detail from the RAW files is good, and they process in Lightroom well. Much easier to get an attractive colour profile than Olympus.

Menus and control panel. Great - a fantastic job coming from the dismal depths of a Nex 7 I once had. They are well laid out, easy to access and clear. Considerably clearer than my Olys.

Jury's Out

The files at ISO 400 and above are noisier than I expected, more so than current M4/3. This is an area I need to develop and may revise as I play with different sharpening and noise reduction settings.

Dynamic range is another area of concern. It is easy to blow highlights to white, where they can't be recovered. Much more so than current M4/3.

Focus seems a bit ponderous, but this may be learning.

Electronic zoom. This may yet be a killer for me - coupled with battery life (below). It is slow, and I'm used to a quick twist to get what I want. Why put it on an "enthusiast" camera? To me it just doesn't suit the market. Maybe it was a decision based on size and cost - not practicality and ease of use.

A killer?

Battery life is looking very poor. I have bought a second (clone) battery and external charger. I am going to Germany shortly and considering batteries 3&4. I am used to carrying a spare battery, but am not confident that two batteries will see me through a day's holiday shooting. I bought the camera as a "grab and go" that I could take anywhere as a small, but effective package. Toting several spare batteries kills that - and may have me leave it on the shelf, or in the hotel, and reach for my Olys.

--
Best regards
Vince C

Well, I agree, the battery use is very dismal! There are 2 things I thought I would really like, the zoom, Don't like it, it's slow and sucks battery power big time.

I also thought that I would like the aperture ring, like in the good old days, Wow, I now prefer using a scrolling wheel like on many cameras. It's too close to the focus/zoom ring, and you can't tell which one your using, if you have the aperture ring set to step-less. I feel like I have to use two hands to make adjustment. Normally I would make all my adjustments with my right hand and once I'm set then use my left hand to focus and support the camera. To me it's clumsy.

Pretty darn noisy above ISO400. But I kind of knew that might happen, being a small sensor.

It's a great video camera though, I just use it the old fashion way and set everything manually. I use an external monitor to set my shots up. I do like the lens and the macro capabilities. Undecided If I'm going to keep it.

 

[a5519]

It's total crap what this guy is calling as a review.

 

[VinceC]

I will update this when I have more experience, I have had the camera for a few days and am comparing it to my Olympus M4/3.

Confession, this is second time around. I bought the RX10 initially intending to move out of Micro 4/3 and go Full Frame, with the RX10 as a light, small, travel and backup camera. At the time I wasn't ready to move on from M4/3, and stayed with it over the summer. Then Nikon launched the D750 and GAS got me. I didn't want two systems, so back to my earlier plan, but not comparing the RX10 with M4/3. This time round my impressions are much more favourable, but I can't withdraw the original post, hence my comments below.

The good

Size, well put together. It is NOT all metal as the marketing folk claim, much of the body is plastic, but good quality, well designed and this is not an issue. I have seen the lens hood criticised - personally I like it and it is neat and fits well. Having a pop up flash is great after my Oly "sticky on" flashes.

Colour and detail from the RAW files is good, and they process in Lightroom well. Much easier to get an attractive colour profile than Olympus.

Menus and control panel. Great - a fantastic job coming from the dismal depths of a Nex 7 I once had. They are well laid out, easy to access and clear. Considerably clearer than my Olys.

I can only underline my comments above.

Jury's Out

The files at ISO 400 and above are noisier than I expected, more so than current M4/3. This is an area I need to develop and may revise as I play with different sharpening and noise reduction settings.

Dynamic range is another area of concern. It is easy to blow highlights to white, where they can't be recovered. Much more so than current M4/3.

Focus seems a bit ponderous, but this may be learning.

Electronic zoom. This may yet be a killer for me - coupled with battery life (below). It is slow, and I'm used to a quick twist to get what I want. Why put it on an "enthusiast" camera? To me it just doesn't suit the market. Maybe it was a decision based on size and cost - not practicality and ease of use.

My comments are overly harsh. IQ - noise and DR are better than I state above and really challenge what I was getting with M4/3. Lightroom handles the RX10 RAW files really well, much better than it did my Olympus files, particularly with colour. I can confidently use it at ISO 1600, at a pinch at ISO 3200. This is as far as I would push my M4/3.

I'm probably being more predictave with my focusing and zooming, zooming is faster with the switch around the shutter button than on the lens. I also used the RX10 for video at a concert the other evening, with surprisingly good results.









The images above were taken at ISO 1600 at a Christmas concert in the local town Hall. I had parked nearby and left my D750 in the car boot (trunk) - in case the RX10 wasn't up to it............... The D750 stayed in the car boot!

A killer?

Battery life is looking very poor. I have bought a second (clone) battery and external charger. I am going to Germany shortly and considering batteries 3&4. I am used to carrying a spare battery, but am not confident that two batteries will see me through a day's holiday shooting. I bought the camera as a "grab and go" that I could take anywhere as a small, but effective package. Toting several spare batteries kills that - and may have me leave it on the shelf, or in the hotel, and reach for my Olys.

I'm using the Sony battery and one spare (cheap) clone. At the concert I took around 50-60 photos in RAW and about 13 minutes of video, plus a fair amount of chimping. The Sony battery showed about 70% after that. Battery life is not at all as bad as I thought, I may buy another (good quality) clone, but that's about it. Oh, and I bought a cheap external charger from Amazon.

--
Best regards
Vince C

--
Best regards
Vince C

 

[GeraldW]

Vince,

I went to a local camera show, and the company reps were there. I got to try several interesting cameras that are not available in our backwater. I was especially interested in the Panasonic FZ1000 and the Sony RX10. I found I much preferred the feel of the Sony, as it fits my hand better and seems better balanced. The Panasonic felt bigger and heavier and sort of clunky. Since i have the Panasonic FZ200, which I like a lot, the Sony is a much better fit in my collection.

And so, here i am on the Sony forum looking for comments on the RX10. So I was quite interested in your revised view of the camera.

 

[edform]

Size, well put together. It is NOT all metal as the marketing folk claim

Your comment was actually in favour of the build quality of the camera, so the only correct objection is to point out that the 'Marketing folk' have never said anywhere that the camera is all metal. The first available description of the camera, apart from journalists 'hands on' comments was the brochure Sony released online. Look it up and you'll see that it shows which bits are metal and which are not - it also plainly states that the build is a metal/plastic hybrid.

Electronic zoom. This may yet be a killer for me - coupled with battery life (below). It is slow, and I'm used to a quick twist to get what I want. Why put it on an "enthusiast" camera? To me it just doesn't suit the market. Maybe it was a decision based on size and cost - not practicality and ease of use.

The reason it's on the camera is the same reason its on the Panasonic FZ1000 and a host of other wide zoom range cameras - the lenses that give some of these cameras their remarkable performance are too complex to be moved with mechanical systems and doing both focus and zooming with a single control - all that is possible in the very limited physical space on the lens barrel - can only be achieved with servo mechanisms.

You went on to say...

I'm probably being more predictave with my focusing and zooming, zooming is faster with the switch around the shutter button than on the lens.

The control on the lens barrel and the lever on the shutter button produce zooming at precisely the same speed - there is no difference whatsoever. The 'slower with the lens ring' idea is regularly repeated in print but it arises from users not getting to grips with the nature of the lens servo. If you move the ring too quickly, the servo slips and the relationship between focal length change and rotation of the lens ring changes to a slower apparent zoom rate. When you learn to move the ring at the correct speed [90 degrees per second] you achieve the fastest rate the motor is capable of and it is the same maximum speed produced by the lever at the shutter button. Full-wide to full-telephoto requires exactly 180 degrees of control ring rotation and once the correct rotation rate is learned the relationship between rotation and movement of the zoom is precise enough to allow a desired framing condition to be reached in one intuitive movement.

The actual zoom rate is not significantly slower than wide range mechanical zoom lenses: remember the zoom range is large and requires lens changes on most cameras anyway - or you could go to one of the 18-300mm lenses on a bigger sensor camera and put up with the distinctly poorer CA and corner quality performance.

When recording video, the zoom rate is significantly slower - almost exactly 3 times slower and there is the same need to learn how quickly the ring can be rotated - the control rotation for full-wide to full-telephoto remains at 180 degrees but it is very difficult in this mode to reach that relationship between control ring and mind that allows pull focusing, so the stepwise zoom setting alternative and the lever on the shutter button is probably best.

 

[VinceC]

Vince,

I went to a local camera show, and the company reps were there. I got to try several interesting cameras that are not available in our backwater. I was especially interested in the Panasonic FZ1000 and the Sony RX10. I found I much preferred the feel of the Sony, as it fits my hand better and seems better balanced. The Panasonic felt bigger and heavier and sort of clunky. Since i have the Panasonic FZ200, which I like a lot, the Sony is a much better fit in my collection.

And so, here i am on the Sony forum looking for comments on the RX10. So I was quite interested in your revised view of the camera.