Nice camera, but....

[axlastro]

I really wanted to like this camera, but there are a few really bad issues with it that spoil it.

1. Af is not accurate with faster glass - everything under 2.8 is a hit and miss with this camera, even in perfect light and center point at the eye of the model, it can misfocus pretty easily. Other people I know had the same issues.

2. The grip has started to turn white after just 6 months. That's really bad...

3. The battery life is just terrible. I need a spare or a grip...

4. The controls are awkwardly placed - it's a rebel!!!

5. The ergonomy is not very good for prolonged use.

6. High ISO performance and DR could be better

Now the good:

1. Canon colors !

2. Good LV focusing speed for portraits when you can't rely on the inaccurate PDAF

3. Nice screen. Touch is not such a big thing, but the screen quality is amasing. Still images viewed on it seem softer than on monitor.

4. Relatively silent shutter.

5. More compact and lighter than other cameras in it's class, at the expense of ergonomy though...

 

[Jeff Peterman]

OK, so I just used the same setup, BUT I used Liveview and touched the off-center M to use as the focus target.


Shot in Liveview

What I can say from this experience is that hand-holding the camera and getting a sharp image in Liveview with an f1.8 lens is tough because small body motions (easier to control when holding the camera to use the viewfinder) shift the focus plain. If that's what the OP has been doing, then this is a technique issue (I braced myself against a chair for this shot).



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Any insults, implied anger, bad grammar and bad spelling, are entirely unintentionalal. Sorry.
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[Jeff Peterman]

This was taken with viewfinder shooting, selecting the right-most focusing point. Again, it worked well.




Viewfinder shot, right-most focusing zone, on the M of Mill.



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[BarnET]

OK, so I just used the same setup, BUT I used Liveview and touched the off-center M to use as the focus target.


What I can say from this experience is that hand-holding the camera and getting a sharp image in Liveview with an f1.8 lens is tough because small body motions (easier to control when holding the camera to use the viewfinder) shift the focus plain. If that's what the OP has been doing, then this is a technique issue (I braced myself against a chair for this shot).

--

Fair enough. You have the patience required for a good photographer. I can't stand that hunting around in live view

Jeff Peterman, Moderator 7D and Phone/Tablet forums.
Not a staff member, or paid employee, of DPReview.
Any insults, implied anger, bad grammar and bad spelling, are entirely unintentionalal. Sorry.
www.pbase.com/jeffp25
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[Jeff Peterman]

I don't use Liveview for normal shooting. I do use it when I have to hold the camera at an angle where I can't use the viewfinder, or if the camera is on a tripod (where I'll also use manual focus and the 10x function to check critical focus).

 

[ZX11]

I don't use Liveview for normal shooting. I do use it when I have to hold the camera at an angle where I can't use the viewfinder, or if the camera is on a tripod (where I'll also use manual focus and the 10x function to check critical focus).

My subjects would never sit for all that fussing around. So my 50mm f1.4 can't be used (with my T5i?) if I want many keepers. I am hoping the 17-55mm f2.8 IS will focus faster and more accurately.




Always in a hurry between naps

 

[axlastro]

OK, based on your comments I just did a quick test with my SL1 (100D), which has the most basic focusing mechanism of the current Canon cameras. I used an 85mm f1.8 at f1.8 and ISO 1600. I'm in my office, so I just looked for a busy view that had a lot of depth and a lot of things that could incorrectly grab focus, and took the shot at about the range I would be for a portrait with this lens. It worked perfectly. This is not a built in flaw of the lens with current Canon cameras - either you have a bad body or a bad lens (or a technique issue).




I focused on the large M that spells Mill. No indication of back/front focusing, and the focus spot is pretty sharp.





--
Jeff Peterman, Moderator 7D and Phone/Tablet forums.
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Actually the 100D does have a better focusing system, it's just the other points are not cross type, but the 100D and 700D are much more accurate!

 

[axlastro]

OK, so I just used the same setup, BUT I used Liveview and touched the off-center M to use as the focus target.


Shot in Liveview

What I can say from this experience is that hand-holding the camera and getting a sharp image in Liveview with an f1.8 lens is tough because small body motions (easier to control when holding the camera to use the viewfinder) shift the focus plain. If that's what the OP has been doing, then this is a technique issue (I braced myself against a chair for this shot).



--
Jeff Peterman, Moderator 7D and Phone/Tablet forums.
Not a staff member, or paid employee, of DPReview.
Any insults, implied anger, bad grammar and bad spelling, are entirely unintentionalal. Sorry.
www.pbase.com/jeffp25
www.jeffp25.smugmug.com

Nope, I am not. I shoot like I should - camera to the eye, hands braced together, holding breath... I actually get 90% perfect focus using live view even with a 1.4 lens. The normal VF is where I have a hit and miss experience. I will not be talking about accuracy in servo mode, as It is much worse.

 

[Abu Mahendra]

Sorry, pal, but you are wrong. The stock lens on my 650D is the Sigma 18-35 F1.8, and the camera focuses quickly and accurately with it. I too disagree fully with your "review" of the 650 which is, along with the Sigma lens, the reason I still shoot an APS-C DSLR.

 

[Abu Mahendra]

OK, so I just used the same setup, BUT I used Liveview and touched the off-center M to use as the focus target.


Shot in Liveview

What I can say from this experience is that hand-holding the camera and getting a sharp image in Liveview with an f1.8 lens is tough because small body motions (easier to control when holding the camera to use the viewfinder) shift the focus plain. If that's what the OP has been doing, then this is a technique issue (I braced myself against a chair for this shot).



--
Jeff Peterman, Moderator 7D and Phone/Tablet forums.
Not a staff member, or paid employee, of DPReview.
Any insults, implied anger, bad grammar and bad spelling, are entirely unintentionalal. Sorry.
www.pbase.com/jeffp25
www.jeffp25.smugmug.com

I use LiveView on the M with an f2 lens all the time, and focus is not an issue. In fact focus accuracy is some of the highest I've experienced.

 

[Jeff Peterman]

All I can say is that having taken three shots in low light with an 85mm f1.8, one with the viewfinder and the center spot, one with the viewfinder and the right-most (non-cross type) spot, and one in Liveview, all three showed perfect focus. So, as others have said, there's nothing inherently wrong with using a fast lens and the lower-level Rebels.

 

[Jeff Peterman]

The focusing in Liveview is not a good idea for moving subjects, except in video (where it is the only option). In the example you posted, it is hard to judge how much light there was - it looks like it was pretty dark, which (with a rapidly moving subject) would be a problem with most cameras - and you'd get about the best results with something like the 50mm f1.4 because it lets in a lot of light (more than double that with the 17-55 f2.8).

 

[axlastro]

Sorry, pal, but you are wrong. The stock lens on my 650D is the Sigma 18-35 F1.8, and the camera focuses quickly and accurately with it. I too disagree fully with your "review" of the 650 which is, along with the Sigma lens, the reason I still shoot an APS-C DSLR.

Well, I guess I might have been too harsh. I too have tried the 18-35 and it did focus perfectly on my 650D, as far as I was able to test it very briefly, so after all, it might have been bad luck with lens after all...

 

[axlastro]

I did get the camera to canon service and they confirmed it had back and front focusing issues, so now it should be to the nearest repair center, which in my case is in Italy. I will update my review after It gets back, but until then, errr, not a smooth experience. It seems canon has skipped on QC.

 

[ZX11]

The focusing in Liveview is not a good idea for moving subjects, except in video (where it is the only option). In the example you posted, it is hard to judge how much light there was - it looks like it was pretty dark, which (with a rapidly moving subject) would be a problem with most cameras - and you'd get about the best results with something like the 50mm f1.4 because it lets in a lot of light (more than double that with the 17-55 f2.8).

I thought the 50mm f1.4 would perform better. However, at 1.4, or anything near that, the DOF becomes an issue with the poor focusing ability of that lens (at least in my hands). It will give you nicely exposed subjects that are outside its area of focus. This lens has made me prioritize the importance of focusing ability in my equipment. Hence, my interest in the 17-55mm f2.8 for its superior focusing ability. It has also peaked my interest in camera bodies that have better focusing ability.



Still figuring out the techniques for getting better photos in less than ideal conditions.

 

[Jeff Peterman]

Just because the 50mm f1.4 can shoot at f1.4 doesn't mean that you must shoot at f1.4! If you shoot at f2.8 it will have the same depth of field as the 17-55 at f2.8, but the extra light through the lens during focusing (it will use f1.4 for focusing) will make focusing faster and more reliable when the light is very low.

 

[brightcolours]

Just because the 50mm f1.4 can shoot at f1.4 doesn't mean that you must shoot at f1.4! If you shoot at f2.8 it will have the same depth of field as the 17-55 at f2.8, but the extra light through the lens during focusing (it will use f1.4 for focusing) will make focusing faster and more reliable when the light is very low.

That is not true. The AF sensor at most only sees f2.8 worth of light. No matter how much bigger the aperture actually is. If it is an f5.6 AF point, it will not see more light than f5.6 either, and a wider aperture will not make focussing "faster".

That is just the nature of PD AF sensors.

--
Jeff Peterman, Moderator 7D and Phone/Tablet forums.
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Any insults, implied anger, bad grammar and bad spelling, are entirely unintentionalal. Sorry.
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[axlastro]

Actually the central pointedly be sensitive for greater than 2.8 apertures. The problem with focusing might be the high amount of CA at 1.4 as the lens opens up when focusing. It was explained in the 70D official review. They tested the 85 1.8 and it was way off on the 70D - something I also observed while testing out different lens and bodies. The 100D is a tad better, which may surprise you, but it has a new focusing system. It is too small and you may not be able to handheld as steady as with a rebel. I'm waiting to see what Canon service might do with my camera and then purchasing an85 1.8 and sending it back again if it needs to be adjusted. The problem is that even a slight misalignment may lead to high levels of CA wide open. The QC is not perfect and it has been proven. That's why I'm thrashing Canon. Their colors are unmatched but focusing and high I so noise needs more attention. You don't always shoot at 1.8 or 1.4 - true, but when you have to you need some acceptable accuracy.

 

[brightcolours]

Actually the central pointedly be sensitive for greater than 2.8 apertures.

No, f2.8. Canon has never mentioned any AF point to exceed f2.8, as far as I know.

The problem with focusing might be the high amount of CA at 1.4 as the lens opens up when focusing. It was explained in the 70D official review. They tested the 85 1.8 and it was way off on the 70D - something I also observed while testing out different lens and bodies. The 100D is a tad better, which may surprise you, but it has a new focusing system. It is too small and you may not be able to handheld as steady as with a rebel. I'm waiting to see what Canon service might do with my camera and then purchasing an85 1.8 and sending it back again if it needs to be adjusted. The problem is that even a slight misalignment may lead to high levels of CA wide open. The QC is not perfect and it has been proven. That's why I'm thrashing Canon. Their colors are unmatched but focusing and high I so noise needs more attention. You don't always shoot at 1.8 or 1.4 - true, but when you have to you need some acceptable accuracy.

 

[Jeff Peterman]

They tested the 85 1.8 and it was way off on the 70D - something I also observed while testing out different lens and bodies. The 100D is a tad better, which may surprise you, but it has a new focusing system.

The SL1/100D has been available since March 2013. The 70D wasn't announced until around mid 2013. You're saying that the low-level SL1 has a newer, better, focusing mechanism than the mid-level 70D?

 

[R2D2]

Actually the central pointedly be sensitive for greater than 2.8 apertures. The problem with focusing might be the high amount of CA at 1.4 as the lens opens up when focusing. It was explained in the 70D official review. They tested the 85 1.8 and it was way off on the 70D - something I also observed while testing out different lens and bodies. The 100D is a tad better, which may surprise you, but it has a new focusing system. It is too small and you may not be able to handheld as steady as with a rebel. I'm waiting to see what Canon service might do with my camera and then purchasing an85 1.8 and sending it back again if it needs to be adjusted. The problem is that even a slight misalignment may lead to high levels of CA wide open. The QC is not perfect and it has been proven. That's why I'm thrashing Canon. Their colors are unmatched but focusing and high I so noise needs more attention. You don't always shoot at 1.8 or 1.4 - true, but when you have to you need some acceptable accuracy.

Gotta disagree with you too.

My 70D's AF is spot on with the 85mm f/1.8 (and actually with all of the other lenses I have used too). No AF issues whatsoever. And CA plays no role in the AF accuracy IME from the many hundreds of pics I've taken with this combo. For instance out of the 600+ frames that I took during this shoot, perhaps only 2 were not nuts on...



[IMG width="400px" alt="Click "Original" for best viewing (check the AF placement) "]http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/image/154573306/original.jpg[/IMG]
Click "Original" for best viewing (check the AF placement)



So you can make generalizations about QC, sure. But don't characterize the camera model as a poor performer (just your copy!). Mine has been sterling. Check my other recent posts for add'l info (or my galleries for more samples with this body).

R2

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