EVF vs OVF

[AfzalKhanVisuals]

Hi folks,

I am Sony user and used A230, A55 and now A57

I read lots of debate against EVF of SLT cameras. Now i want views of those friends who used the both EVF and OVF and tell us in what ways EVF would be better against OVF.

for me there is 3 big reason which i like in EVF.

1) I can see the result of the shot as a recorded version so i can decide before i waste my shutter, while that would not happen with OVF.

2) Focus magnifier through EVF which make me easy to focus sharp while other brand which have that features could not able to use through OVF.

3) I can use the menu and functions without taking my camera away from my eyes which makes things very easy.

I know OVF have also various good factors but with lots of benefits why not we think the next generation would be only EVF as world of photography technology changing. we accepted, digital, touch screen, GPS, wi-fi so why not EVF.

add your valuable comments.

Regards

Afzal Khan
Kathmandu, Nepal

 

[splashy]

EVF is part of evolution, there will be a transition to EVF like from film to digital.

And even if it's very good on an A99 and other camera's, there will certainly be improvements/adjustments in the time coming.

If I use an OVF camera now, it feels like being in the stoneage, I miss all kind of settings and views in the finder.

 

[ApertureAcolyte]

Hi folks,

I am Sony user and used A230, A55 and now A57

I read lots of debate against EVF of SLT cameras. Now i want views of those friends who used the both EVF and OVF and tell us in what ways EVF would be better against OVF.

for me there is 3 big reason which i like in EVF.

1) I can see the result of the shot as a recorded version so i can decide before i waste my shutter, while that would not happen with OVF.

2) Focus magnifier through EVF which make me easy to focus sharp while other brand which have that features could not able to use through OVF.

3) I can use the menu and functions without taking my camera away from my eyes which makes things very easy.

I know OVF have also various good factors but with lots of benefits why not we think the next generation would be only EVF as world of photography technology changing. we accepted, digital, touch screen, GPS, wi-fi so why not EVF.

add your valuable comments.

Regards

Afzal Khan
Kathmandu, Nepal

Depends on the EVF in question

Some of them simply have poor optics (gh3....), while others are just hopeless like the one the Sony a3000

 

[AfzalKhanVisuals]

I am not asking about the quality of EVF it can be vary from brand to brand. Even i think slowly as technology growing the quality also improve, hope so... just concern is the advantage and disadvantage of EVF and OVF.

 

[Michel J]

Hi folks,

I am Sony user and used A230, A55 and now A57

I read lots of debate against EVF of SLT cameras.

From now on, you can't dissociate EVF and SLT, because they works in par at this point.

Now i want views of those friends who used the both EVF and OVF and tell us in what ways EVF would be better against OVF.

for me there is 3 big reason which i like in EVF.

1) I can see the result of the shot as a recorded version so i can decide before i waste my shutter, while that would not happen with OVF.

It could be done BEFORE your press the shutter as well...! (To calibrate all your session, what can save your time by multiple checking).

2) Focus magnifier through EVF which make me easy to focus sharp while other brand which have that features could not able to use through OVF.

3) I can use the menu and functions without taking my camera away from my eyes which makes things very easy.

I know OVF have also various good factors but with lots of benefits why not we think the next generation would be only EVF as world of photography technology changing. we accepted, digital, touch screen, GPS, wi-fi so why not EVF.

add your valuable comments.

Regards

Afzal Khan
Kathmandu, Nepal

One week away, it have a thread asking "What if Sony had never created SLT?"

Here is a fair summary of all the answers (with the names of respective authors):

• Sony used SLT to move the EVF before the others (K E Hoffman);
• We don't get a head start comparing to EVF! Because there is not a lot we can do to improve OVF (K E Hoffman);
• Key reason : we wouldn't get an efficient preemptive/anticipatory modes without EVF (* ability to « capture the future » K E Hoffman);
• EVFs will only improve. It has limits in how large / bright and how well an OVF can display info (K E Hoffman);
• So with the Sony EVF close to an OVF, some feel better (K E Hoffman);
• They puts them first.. in a change that is coming (K E Hoffman);
• Innovation brings Sony first, into the boat of this DSLR market (K E Hoffman) SLT/EVF comes across as forward thinking and willingness to be different (EinsteinsGhost);
• It means they don't stand out unless they do something else new (K E Hoffman);
• SLT technology has moved photography along, and generally for the better (dolbyscat);
• SLT made me stay with Sony. If they had stayed traditional I probably would have switched brands (tbcass) Sony brought me into the camp with SLT (EinsteinsGhost);
• EVF par commodité sans compromis sur les performances (VS LCD, OVF) (EinsteinsGhost);
• 100% view thru EVF (EinsteinsGhost);
• (EVF as a) compositional tools (EinsteinsGhost);
• The smaller size possible with D-SLT-(SLR) (EinsteinsGhost);
• SLT as a transitional technology into a more proper digital imaging (aka mirrorless) (EinsteinsGhost) It was a interim technology step to developing mirrorless designs that would AF as well or better than mirrored designs (Jim Funston);
• EVF and mirrorless cameras are the future in ILC designs for all manufacturers (Jim Funston);
• The SLT/EVF? is a real difference that is tangible and tactile (…) As it has played out, Sony has been using it's strength as an engineering powerhouse to develop new products and refine technologies and innovations. People are interested. (leonche64);
• Canikon is struggling and stagnant (compared to Sony) (jackgreen);
• Likely quite a bit worse (TrojMacReady);
• Digital photography is bound to become more... digital (EinsteinsGhost) (and EVF is an important step forwards in this direction);
• The SLT was greatly welcome for an excellent LV, and the EVF completed the features design breakthrough! (Lucas_);
• I've had most Sony DSLR's and SLT's and would never go back to the flipping mirror and OVF. (Lucas_);
• The so-called "light loss" due to the SLT mirror has shown to be unnoticeable in all my shooting practice and actually negligible. (Lucas_);
• Even if it has a minor practical influence on some specific situation, the benefits from it plus the EVF way offset any slight shortcoming. (Lucas_) In the menu of IQ tradeoffs. I find the SLT preferable (K E Hoffman);
• Most photographers tend to really resist change until either overexposed to the advantages or no longer given the old technology to use (Jim Funston);
• EVFs will only improve (K E Hoffman);

And I would add or repeat some points:

• EVF is more accurate as than any other (with its real time “intelligent preview”) and is extremely reactive (is like real time shooting and editing);
• OVF is more expensive to produce, because of an additional mechanism (flappy mirror);
• More expensive, because the glass pentaprism is beautifull and great, but very expensive to produce;
• With OVF you are unable to make photos as sharp as with an EVF without flappy mecanism, so your pictures as less a veil of cottony vagueness (and moreover you can use the focus peaking feature and magnifier, as you noticed);
• the camera is lighter without heavy pentaprism mineral glass;
• For the first time in history, it was even worth it for professionnals because the EVF saves them mostly to get an heavy laptop in the field to check the shots on a PC monitor;
• Better than the laptop indeed, since that the EVF protect your vision of the ambient light, and helping to highlighting beauty and depth of your shots to evaluate them;
• More discreet in low light or/and in the night, because your presence isn't revealed by the back light of an LCD;
• More secure, because this WYSIWYG device, help you to get an optimal result before pressing the shutter;
• More versatile, since the EVF give the opportunity to determine if it's necessary (or not) to double shooting after correcting your exposure;
• More economic, since you are able to save hours, or maybe days and month of works in PP, by the scrutiny of your shots directly in the field;
• More precise, since you are able to make jpeg / raw in-camera without multiple compromise and without the obligation to virtualize many parameters in your brain, because just you can see them on EVF (what is impossible with an OVF);
• More efficient in the field for all the above reasons;
• last but not least, it's like a real time digital polaroid with the precision of a drum scanner and all it brings at the same time!

I'm sure it have more feed back than that for the "pros" and have also some few known "cons", but this list is not bad imho, and show clearly that however and massively, overall the advantages outweigh the drawbacks.

 

[nandbytes]

I am not asking about the quality of EVF it can be vary from brand to brand. Even i think slowly as technology growing the quality also improve, hope so... just concern is the advantage and disadvantage of EVF and OVF.

 

[cplunk]

Hi folks,

I am Sony user and used A230, A55 and now A57

I read lots of debate against EVF of SLT cameras. Now i want views of those friends who used the both EVF and OVF and tell us in what ways EVF would be better against OVF.

for me there is 3 big reason which i like in EVF.

1) I can see the result of the shot as a recorded version so i can decide before i waste my shutter, while that would not happen with OVF.

It not the "waste my shutter", it's the confidence in knowing that I got a shot without taking the time to "chimp".

2) Focus magnifier through EVF which make me easy to focus sharp while other brand which have that features could not able to use through OVF.

And peeking. I almost never use the magnifier. I almost always use peeking.

3) I can use the menu and functions without taking my camera away from my eyes which makes things very easy.

I never use the EVF for the menu. Maybe that's just habit. But I can chimp in bright sunlight, when the LCD isn't viewable.

And I do use the onscreen level, especially with ulta wide angle landscape / interior shots where being off level can really screw up the perspective.

I know OVF have also various good factors but with lots of benefits why not we think the next generation would be only EVF as world of photography technology changing. we accepted, digital, touch screen, GPS, wi-fi so why not EVF.

Some people still haven't accepted digital, touch screens, GPS and wifi. Some people took a long time. Personally, I still avoid wifi when not necessary, everything that I can cable to a switch without too much work wiring I will. I know people with various issue with touch screens are refuse to use them. And there are photographers, some professional, that still have a need to use film for some projects.

But for most photographers using DSLRs, EVFs would probably benefit them more than they're really aware of. But they still to what they know with brand recognition and comfortable technology, learning and improvement takes time and effort.

 

[Endos]

Maybe someday someone is able to make an EVF that is as good as the OVF in the A900. Until then, I don't want to use something that is clearly inferior for the type of work I do.

 

[nandbytes]

Maybe someday someone is able to make an EVF that is as good as the OVF in the A900. Until then, I don't want to use something that is clearly inferior for the type of work I do.

 

[Endos]

Maybe someday someone is able to make an EVF that is as good as the OVF in the A900. Until then, I don't want to use something that is clearly inferior for the type of work I do.

 

[dlkeller]

By this time EVF has pretty much taken over the Sony DSLR fanbase so one would expect a major majority of EVF positive comments. Additionally most OVF fans have either left for another brand or simply remain silent because they are tired of being shouted down.

I'll add my OVF vote to the A900 owners. I don't need the crutches supplied by the EVF that so many of you continuously praise and I like the view I get through a good pentraprism OVF much more. As already stated, maybe someday the EVF will improve some more but right now I just don't like what I see through it.

Ask this question on the Canon or Nikon forums so you can get some opinions from the other side of the issue.

 

[nandbytes]

Maybe someday someone is able to make an EVF that is as good as the OVF in the A900. Until then, I don't want to use something that is clearly inferior for the type of work I do.

 

[nandbytes]

By this time EVF has pretty much taken over the Sony DSLR fanbase so one would expect a major majority of EVF positive comments. Additionally most OVF fans have either left for another brand or simply remain silent because they are tired of being shouted down.

I'll add my OVF vote to the A900 owners. I don't need the crutches supplied by the EVF that so many of you continuously praise and I like the view I get through a good pentraprism OVF much more. As already stated, maybe someday the EVF will improve some more but right now I just don't like what I see through it.

Well it certainly helps to have them. Its not a matter of need, its more a matter of what makes my life easier. Never used OVF on A900 but I have used the one on 5D3 and it is very good. One on nikon I tried in shops are nice too (D800). I have also tried some really bad OVFs like ones most of my friends have on low end cameras. I'd prefer EVF to those any day.

Ask this question on the Canon or Nikon forums so you can get some opinions from the other side of the issue.

 

[Alexramos]

EVF reproduces the DR of the sensor, even if the OVF is limited by our eyes' DR, the real and final result comes from the sensor's DR and the EVF reproduces it very well.

Also the EVF makes the viewfinder a more complete, integrated and real (bases in the sensor capture) composition and exposure tool.

I have thought jump to FF and the a900 has a very good price used, but the lack of an EVF push me back.

 

[OpticsEngineer]

"EVF vs OVF?"

You are asking the wrong question , or least one that unintentionally limits the scope in how people respond. (It happens almost every time this subject comes up)

The point that gets overlooked is that as a system, Sony cameras using DSLT technologies add a lot of flexibility. It opens up all kinds of creative possibilities that you don't have if you keep an eyeball stuck behind the camera. Sony DSLT cameras basically have very fast AF in what other companies call "LiveView" Except it works a lot better on Sony.

I have Nikon D7100 and Pentax K3 both with OVF. They probably take better pictures with better image quality than my aging A65. And the view through the OVF is unquestionably better than the view through the EVF. But most of the time, it is the A65 that I am getting the really good family photos with because of the creative possibilities of the articulated display and fast reliable "LiveView" AF.

The other DSLR that might be similarily capable right now is the new Canon 70D. It will be interesting to see how this competition plays out.

 

[dlkeller]

If Sony continues with A mount I probably will end up with an EVF camera some day. I guess what bugs me the most about this entire post is the way these same arguements keep coming up. It kind of reminds me of Vampires and religious groups that keep going around knocking on doors with these deep seated needs to convert everyone to their way of thinking.

 

[Endos]

EVF reproduces the DR of the sensor, even if the OVF is limited by our eyes' DR, the real and final result comes from the sensor's DR and the EVF reproduces it very well.

Also the EVF makes the viewfinder a more complete, integrated and real (bases in the sensor capture) composition and exposure tool.

I have thought jump to FF and the a900 has a very good price used, but the lack of an EVF push me back.

 

[EvilOne]

This how I see the arguments over EVF and OVF... not the finders themselves but the argument.

Like anything else, many people are against change, especially if their present finder has been embraced for 100 years, when rangefinder came out it was an interuption in the OVF system. Lots of Old people cling to the past. Lots of Old people call EVF a Fade that will quickly yield to the previous status quo . Some old people are more prone to be more conservative when it comes to relleasing their money on a potential fad, and not only try to convince themself that this new fangled EVF is a flash in the pan and they see no need to go their since the OVF has been relavant for 100 years, but they are willing to argue the point to gather support from anyone willing to bolster their position on OVF's. The lobby so they don't have to commit to something that has not been a part of their photographic career.

People with a more progressive attitude toward technology the embracers of EVF with buy into it, and when they see its a great improvement in data and composition which bring this information at your attention so much easier. Few people buy into a "Good" and I say "Good" EVF like the OLED of an A77, and say it is horrible and IM selling it and going back to an OVF. So those people try to convince those in my first group that their concerns have no validity.

Many people especially old people like to embrace the past so to speak , hang on to their youth where OVF were the way to go.... that's why nostalgia clubs a restaurants etc. are big with the older generation.

IM an old guy, I had an electronic VF in the 90's with my Minolta 7Hi.. it was ok, but the OLED of my A77 is head and shoulders and a few feet above that early evf design.

I used the OVF on my KM 7D and the A700. I never had a problem with either of them, that is until I bought the A77. I too was a bit skeptical about the EVF but new at the time it was the absolute best electronic view finder on the planet. The day I received the A77, it took me about 30 minutes to realize the advantages of the A77's OLED. I could have easily returned it, and received all my money back. but I instantly embraces its advantages.

So those who embrace an OVF for the most part, have never really invested in a premium OLED. BTW many of the discontinued Sony Cameras that appeared as EVF ( 27 discontinue evf cameras )after the A700 with its OVF, are not an example of the quality evf found in the latest Sony cameras.

Bill

In my opinion, you wont see OVF in the next decade. They will go the way of cathode tube television, 8 track tapes, Betamax ( I own a complete Sony system .. video camera and Betamax tape player.) , rotary phones,( own two of these that are in use in my house ) Polaroid Land cameras.( I have one of these too ) except for the nostalgia that these items represent.

 

[Tom Harvey]

In my opinion, you wont see OVF in the next decade. They will go the way of cathode tube television, 8 track tapes, Betamax ( I own a complete Sony system .. video camera and Betamax tape player.) , rotary phones,( own two of these that are in use in my house ) Polaroid Land cameras.( I have one of these too ) except for the nostalgia that these items represent.

To quote the late, great Douglas Adams...

1) everything that's already in the world when you’re born is just normal;
2) anything that gets invented between then and before you turn thirty is incredibly exciting and creative and with any luck you can make a career out of it;
3) anything that gets invented after you're thirty is against the natural order of things and the beginning of the end of civilisation as we know it until it's been around for about ten years when it gradually turns out to be alright really.

 

[nandbytes]

This how I see the arguments over EVF and OVF... not the finders themselves but the argument.

Like anything else, many people are against change, especially if their present finder has been embraced for 100 years, when rangefinder came out it was an interuption in the OVF system. Lots of Old people cling to the past. Lots of Old people call EVF a Fade that will quickly yield to the previous status quo . Some old people are more prone to be more conservative when it comes to relleasing their money on a potential fad, and not only try to convince themself that this new fangled EVF is a flash in the pan and they see no need to go their since the OVF has been relavant for 100 years, but they are willing to argue the point to gather support from anyone willing to bolster their position on OVF's. The lobby so they don't have to commit to something that has not been a part of their photographic career.

People with a more progressive attitude toward technology the embracers of EVF with buy into it, and when they see its a great improvement in data and composition which bring this information at your attention so much easier. Few people buy into a "Good" and I say "Good" EVF like the OLED of an A77, and say it is horrible and IM selling it and going back to an OVF. So those people try to convince those in my first group that their concerns have no validity.

Many people especially old people like to embrace the past so to speak , hang on to their youth where OVF were the way to go.... that's why nostalgia clubs a restaurants etc. are big with the older generation.

IM an old guy, I had an electronic VF in the 90's with my Minolta 7Hi.. it was ok, but the OLED of my A77 is head and shoulders and a few feet above that early evf design.

I used the OVF on my KM 7D and the A700. I never had a problem with either of them, that is until I bought the A77. I too was a bit skeptical about the EVF but new at the time it was the absolute best electronic view finder on the planet. The day I received the A77, it took me about 30 minutes to realize the advantages of the A77's OLED. I could have easily returned it, and received all my money back. but I instantly embraces its advantages.

So those who embrace an OVF for the most part, have never really invested in a premium OLED. BTW many of the discontinued Sony Cameras that appeared as EVF ( 27 discontinue evf cameras )after the A700 with its OVF, are not an example of the quality evf found in the latest Sony cameras.

Bill

In my opinion, you wont see OVF in the next decade. They will go the way of cathode tube television, 8 track tapes, Betamax ( I own a complete Sony system .. video camera and Betamax tape player.) , rotary phones,( own two of these that are in use in my house ) Polaroid Land cameras.( I have one of these too ) except for the nostalgia that these items represent.

I keep getting told that EVF has lag especially when panning etc? I have used EVF for this purpose no problem and I fail to see any real world panning problems. I know you shoot action and birds etc. What you think in your experience about lag?

I caught this today with EVF. I didn't use bursts, it was a single moment I picked quickly, its straight from camera jpg haven't had time for PP. Its a TINY bird (robin) so I don't know what lag people complain about.