Taking night pictures with the 7D

[karski]

[No message]

 

[karski]

I'm a relatively new user with the 7D and I am relatively well used to taking pictures during the day time. My main interest is birds.

I have had no experience with taking pictures at night with the 7D and when the opportunity for night picture last night a Disney World presented itself, I was a total failure. I finally had some success with the following setting, or so I thought.

TV set at 10

AV set at auto

ISO set at 800

The resulting pictures looked OK on the display screen, but at home on the PC it looked like the shutter speed of 10 was totally incorrect.

Instructions in the 7D in David. Busch's Canon EOS 7D Guide do not cover this subject clearly for me.

Is there anyone out there that could provide me with a setting example that I could then enter into one of M my C functions, C1, C2 or C3? Hopefully the I could improve my picture taking abilities.

Thanks,

Karski

 

[Jerry-astro]

Small wonder if you were in TV mode. 1/10s is a VERY slow shutter speed. Taking pictures at night without either very high iSOs (and resulting noise) or lower ISOs and a tripod to support the camera is nearly impossible. When hand holding the camera, you generally want a shutter speed of at least 1/60s. If you're using a lens with IS, you might be able to go down to 1/30, or if you have VERY steady hands, perhaps 1/15s. Regardless whether you use Av or Tv, you need to make sure that the shutter speed is appropriate for your situation. If you're using a tripod, then it's possible to shoot at much lower shutter speeds.

As far as ISO goes, that will depend on your tolerance for noise. I find noise at ISO 1600 and below to be pretty controllable on my 7D using noise reduction (NR) in Lightroom (or DPP, or whatever package you use for post processing). Keep in mind that NR results in the loss of some detail... the higher your ISO, the more detail that will be obliterated by the noise.

Overall, you'll likely find it very difficult to get a decent night shot without some sort of support for your camera. To get a 1/15-1/30s exposure at night hand held with an IS lens, you'd have to have the ISO set very high... probably so high that the noise would be pretty obnoxious. Setting your camera on a fencepost or other support might be a suitable substitute if you don't have a tripod, but at best it's a compromise.

BTW, C1,C2,C3 are for preprogramming your settings and making quick changes. So, for example, if you do night shots a lot and have found a group of settings that work well, you can set up any one of the custom settings (say C1) such that by switching over to it, the camera will automatically revert to the settings you had stored under C1. Same applies to all three of these settings.

I'm a relatively new user with the 7D and I am relatively well used to taking pictures during the day time. My main interest is birds.

I have had no experience with taking pictures at night with the 7D and when the opportunity for night picture last night a Disney World presented itself, I was a total failure. I finally had some success with the following setting, or so I thought.

TV set at 10

AV set at auto

ISO set at 800

The resulting pictures looked OK on the display screen, but at home on the PC it looked like the shutter speed of 10 was totally incorrect.

Instructions in the 7D in David. Busch's Canon EOS 7D Guide do not cover this subject clearly for me.

Is there anyone out there that could provide me with a setting example that I could then enter into one of M my C functions, C1, C2 or C3? Hopefully the I could improve my picture taking abilities.

Thanks,

Karski

 

[KN13]

My wife and I go to Disney at least once or twice a year and I'm always camera'd out the wazoo. While I do, on occasion, set up a tripod it's not always feasible. Nothing is worse than being that guy who needs to stop everyone, get the tripod out, set up, attached to the camera and then wait for the self timer or attach a remote shutter to avoid shake. Then, when you have a good angle, invariably people will walk in front of your camera or bump into you. From time to time, I'll set up the camera with a UWA lens on a tripod the edge of the planter between the Walt/Mickey statue and Cinderalla's Castle but, honestly, I just shoot handheld now with some settings tweaks.

If you have a fast lens (i.e. F2.8 or faster) that can be helpful but F4 can work too.

Here's an example from this past November:





This was with the 7D with 1/40s at F4 (ISO 800). I put it on live view and held my camera over my head to avoid people. I zoomed to 50mm on my 24-105L and, unless I'm mistaken, used spot metering. And, the most important trick, is to shoot in RAW and intentionally underexpose by between 2/3 and 1 1/3 (which you fix in PP).

 

[Midwest]

My wife and I go to Disney at least once or twice a year and I'm always camera'd out the wazoo. While I do, on occasion, set up a tripod it's not always feasible. Nothing is worse than being that guy who needs to stop everyone, get the tripod out, set up, attached to the camera and then wait for the self timer or attach a remote shutter to avoid shake. Then, when you have a good angle, invariably people will walk in front of your camera or bump into you. From time to time, I'll set up the camera with a UWA lens on a tripod the edge of the planter between the Walt/Mickey statue and Cinderalla's Castle but, honestly, I just shoot handheld now with some settings tweaks.

If you have a fast lens (i.e. F2.8 or faster) that can be helpful but F4 can work too.

Here's an example from this past November:



This was with the 7D with 1/40s at F4 (ISO 800). I put it on live view and held my camera over my head to avoid people. I zoomed to 50mm on my 24-105L and, unless I'm mistaken, used spot metering. And, the most important trick, is to shoot in RAW and intentionally underexpose by between 2/3 and 1 1/3 (which you fix in PP).

That came out very well. Something the OP might want to make a mental note of - it's always possible to bump the exposure up in PP'ing, it's possible to reduce or remove high ISO noise in PP'ing, but there's NO good way to get rid of motion blur caused by shooting too slow hand-held.

 

[KN13]

I think that exposure control is something that a lot of people getting into digital don't think enough about. It's a remnant of the old days of film but it's a powerful tool to keep in your arsenal. Unless you're going straight to JPEG there's always going to be a need to convert your RAW so why not squeeze out a faster shutter speed and/or a greater depth of focus (depending on what you're shooting and your artistic inclination)?

When I head out with friends (enthusiasts with point and shoots or an occasional entry level dslr) for a common shoot they like to boast about how vivid their shots are compared to my slightly darker ones. When it comes time to get together and share our keepers their boasting falls by the wayside. No question that their shots are bright and have some pop to them, they're often blurry or OOF. Mine on the other hand, are nice and crisp and still have good contrast, saturation and exposure. And that's in large part because I know my camera and how to prioritize focus and avoiding blur.

Never rest on your laurels thinking you "took the perfect picture." You may have framed it just right and made sure that it was captured properly but at the end of the day a camera is just a machine and it doesn't know what you want the finished product to be. Developing and post processing your shots can be as much artistry as taking the shots in the first place. It's about imbuing the photo with your emotional read of the situation.

 

[Jerry-astro]

Good advice, but one cautionary note: the 7D in particular is very sensitive to underexposure and you will risk a fair amount of additional noise if you do so. For some night shots, that may not be an issue since what you're shooting may not have a ton of detail. In those situations, aggressive NR would not spoil the shot. However, if what you are shooting does have lots of detail, then deliberately underexposing 1 or more stops may take an already somewhat noisy shot (at say ISO 800) and make it a lot worse. Freezing motion is certainly of paramount importance, but if you end up with a ton of noise, in some cases, you're not much better off IMHO.

All that said, I do shoot handheld more than I probably should in marginal conditions. I hate tripods and only use them when I have to. And if you're touring around Disney World, as an example, toting around a tripod is not exactly easy or practical.

I think that exposure control is something that a lot of people getting into digital don't think enough about. It's a remnant of the old days of film but it's a powerful tool to keep in your arsenal. Unless you're going straight to JPEG there's always going to be a need to convert your RAW so why not squeeze out a faster shutter speed and/or a greater depth of focus (depending on what you're shooting and your artistic inclination)?

When I head out with friends (enthusiasts with point and shoots or an occasional entry level dslr) for a common shoot they like to boast about how vivid their shots are compared to my slightly darker ones. When it comes time to get together and share our keepers their boasting falls by the wayside. No question that their shots are bright and have some pop to them, they're often blurry or OOF. Mine on the other hand, are nice and crisp and still have good contrast, saturation and exposure. And that's in large part because I know my camera and how to prioritize focus and avoiding blur.

Never rest on your laurels thinking you "took the perfect picture." You may have framed it just right and made sure that it was captured properly but at the end of the day a camera is just a machine and it doesn't know what you want the finished product to be. Developing and post processing your shots can be as much artistry as taking the shots in the first place. It's about imbuing the photo with your emotional read of the situation.

 

[KN13]

I hear you on the over handheld shooting in questionable conditions. In my youth I did a lot of riflery so I integrate that into my handheld technique, especially with the 100-400 (which is push/pull and ends up really long on the telephoto end). It's all in the breathing.

Definitely agree on the noisiness with the 7D on underexposed shots but sometimes you don't have a choice. My preference is to stick at -2/3, which gets borderline but every bit helps. Really looking forward to breaking in my new 5DIII. The noise is so much less. For fun I did this one at ISO 6,400. Not a perfect representation as this is the copy of the medium sized JPEG I did on my eye-fi card (as the secondary backup) and pushed to my phone:

 

[Myrgjorf]

.., but there's NO good way to get rid of motion blur caused by shooting too slow hand-held.

That is not completely true. Photoshop CC can sometimes remove or reduce motion blur. It is not always effective but it has save more than a few of my pictures.

 

[Rexgig0]

A shutter speed of 10, hand-held, is almost invariably a mistake. (Panning, with a moving subject, would be an obvious exception.) The 7D can capture quite decent images at ISO 3200, so I would not hesitate to go that high; better a bit of noise than a bit of motion blur.

I shoot most of my images with 7D cameras at night, but am having a difficult time visualizing the conditions at Disney World, having never been there. If using a shutter speed of less than 1/60, I would select a wide-angle lens, if it fit the situation. I might well switch to spot-metering for a subject that is illuminated, while the background is darker.

Tripods are ideal for night shooting, but probably not practical in a crowded place, and are prohibited at quite a few places. Family members are rarely patient when one is getting a tripod into position! I find a powerful 580EX II or 600EX-RT Speedlite to me a more practical choice than a tripod for shooting while moving about at night, if my subjects are within range of flash. (High ISO settings can greatly extend the range of a Speedlite.)

Please consider this to be random thoughts, rather than specific advice.

 

[Abu Mahendra]

Do not under-expose high ISO shots! Expose to the right.

 

[Littlefield]

Do not under-expose high ISO shots! Expose to the right.

Indeed and also expose to the right for less noise in darker areas even with ISO of 100.

 

[Kobus66]

Why did you use ISO 800............... ?

 

[KN13]

Why did you use ISO 800............... ?